discuss Logical Outbound Discussion

[BoGoKing]

There seems to be a lot of conversation and consternation around inbound marketing of domains vs. outbound. Domains sold strictly via inbound might be considered, "Buy and Hold" or "Buy and Hoard", while outbound marketing is more of a progressive/aggressive approach.

As a business guy with almost 50 years of marketing/selling experience (see my Linkedin bio here on NP via information page). In my prior business life, 80% of my sales have been a result of outbound efforts. Much of it has been a result of what has been traditionally referred to as "cold calling" which seems to be a lost art with the advent of the internet.

Domain professionals here on NP and elsewhere seem to think outbound marketing won't work, although they claim to have tried it, and FAILED miserably Personally I believe it will work, "if" done right. In my case, the first thing I need to do is attract a savvy technical individual who has nothing to lose, and everything to gain. By that I mean they are either unemployed, are a visionary or are an entrepreneur like me.

btw, there isn't just one way to succeed at outbound marketing. Targeted email marketing is one way, direct mail marketing is another and phone sales and follow up is another way. All three of these techniques still work today in other industries, and there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to work in the domain industry imo.

I'm not asking NP members why outbound won't work, but rather why outbound will work. If some of you think it can work, I would like to hear from you. I'll start with "targeted" outbound marketing, for if you don't know your target, you're sure to fail.

Let's revolutionize domaining like the Wright Brothers revolutionized travel. What do you say This can't be that hard...or can it?

 

[Joe N]

Thanks Karmaco...I wasn't necessarily referring to traditional "cold calling", but rather cold emails, direct mail and trade shows etc that are regularly attended by executives in each of the industries I've mentioned I'm intimately familiar with. It's been my experience most people and that includes "end user's) don't know this industry exists leaving the door open to a savvy seller.

I think perhaps there's a perspective issue happening in relation to your comment that I bolded above.

You're implying that if end users were familiar with the domain aftermarket, they would be more likely to want to buy additional domain names for higher-than-reg-fee prices. I think the opposite is true. If business owners were more familiar with the market, they would be more savvy as buyers, and would be less likely to pay end user prices... instead seeking opportunities to acquire names at re-seller prices.

The complexities of profitable domain name buying and selling, and of knowing how to seek out desirable names, is exactly what allows there to be end user pricing. The service we provide is one of discovery and procurement. If buyers become familiar with this industry, why bother dealing with us?

Additionally, Rich - I think you're viewing domain name sales as being comparable to the selling of other goods and services. The two cannot be compared, because most businesses don't perceive domain names as a need. This is a completely opposite attitude to debt collection services, where you would be approaching companies who already make use of such services, but you're selling them on why yours is better (i.e. cheaper commission, better conversion, or any other way where value is easy to see).

Buyers don't need domain names until they decide they need them. They cannot easily be shown the value of buying more.

And in the case of marketing aftermarket names to agents, doctors, or other graduates who are starting businesses... how do you propose to convince them that your recently registered $2,000 name is 200 times better than another clever name they could hand reg themselves? Where is the value to them?

 

[Soofi]

Soofi...i really would suggest you take a look at my Linkedin bio and judge for yourself whether or not I may have experience with "outbound sales" of any kind.

I will take a look at your Linkedin bio, only if you care to answer my question of "how's it done right"?

It was Verisign who identified the major problem with your industry is the "Hoarding" of domains thus they call the majority of you hoarders. Do you even know what they were referring to? I see both "truth" and "opportunity" in their description, and I saw it when I arrived here at NP just 24 months ago.

Please allow me to ask this one; what in the world are you doing in our industry? Oh wait, I mean in hoarders industry? :wonders:

Regardless of what you think of me, I don't appreciate the stalking and harassment on this message board the likes of what I've been subjected to since I arrived here. I know you wouldn't like it if it were happening to you either.

You have my full empathy, but I'm sure you arent helping yourself by making such posts around here

Have fun!

 

[Recons.Com]

So Recon...where have you been. My strengths, and I'm sure you said that facetiously, but who's counting You might want to check out how I complimented my partner in the medical billing business AcSel (that I also named before you were born). I started AcSel in 1980 and it's still in business today much to your chagrin, I'm sure The "average" tech guy needs me more than I need him/her, but you'll never get it

You should have finished with "..., but you will never get it™"

I am sure you were complimenting your partner with beautiful words, and maybe even complementing him in some way, but that is irrelevant for the industry.

As, your lack of sales have proven that you are exceptionally bad at this. If you were just average, you should have had tens of sales already just from inbound. For last two years, my average portfolio size was under 2000 names and I have sold 65+ names inbound.

If your names are mostly worth zero, multiplying it by someone's vision, sales skills etc. will result again in zero. Maybe, you should have stuck with medical billing. You know, "struck it, stuck with it™"

 

[JB Lions]

There seems to be a lot of conversation and consternation around inbound marketing of domains vs. outbound. Domains sold strictly via inbound might be considered, "Buy and Hold" or "Buy and Hoard", while outbound marketing is more of a progressive/aggressive approach.

As a business guy with almost 50 years of marketing/selling experience (see my Linkedin bio here on NP via information page). In my prior business life, 80% of my sales have been a result of outbound efforts. Much of it has been a result of what has been traditionally referred to as "cold calling" which seems to be a lost art with the advent of the internet.

Domain professionals here on NP and elsewhere seem to think outbound marketing won't work, although they claim to have tried it, and FAILED miserably Personally I believe it will work, "if" done right. In my case, the first thing I need to do is attract a savvy technical individual who has nothing to lose, and everything to gain. By that I mean they are either unemployed, are a visionary or are an entrepreneur like me.

btw, there isn't just one way to succeed at outbound marketing. Targeted email marketing is one way, direct mail marketing is another and phone sales and follow up is another way. All three of these techniques still work today in other industries, and there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to work in the domain industry imo.

I'm not asking NP members why outbound won't work, but rather why outbound will work. If some of you think it can work, I would like to hear from you. I'll start with "targeted" outbound marketing, for if you don't know your target, you're sure to fail.

Let's revolutionize domaining like the Wright Brothers revolutionized travel. What do you say This can't be that hard...or can it?

You've been here 2 years now. And stuff newbies would pick up in their first month, you still haven't - http://cheesecakerealty.com/?reqp=1&reqr=

I think I posted about this last year. You still haven't figured out a landing page. The ones you keeping using have it where somebody needs to pay $70 for a GD broker to contact you. You're still not listing your domains in the various marketplaces. 2 years and not seeing much learning take place.

This thread is like all your others. Back in the day I blah blah blah, check my LinkedIn blah blah blah. Now it's you trying to find some broker to sell your names, willing to give them ridiculous amounts. This business simply isn't for you. You don't get it, you've shown no indication that you ever will.

 

[rohitgoyal]

There's actually a wonderful guide to outbound marketing by @rohitgoyal here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/outbound-process-for-beginners.1101291/

Definitely worth a read if you're looking to really get into doing outbound.

The first and foremost rule of outbound is that you cant afford to be rude or impatient... I rest my case here...

 

[rohitgoyal]

The eBook by @Darryl Lopes has a good amount about outbound and negotiation. It is a short, fast read, written by someone with a proven track record, and is relatively inexpensive. He started a NamePros thread about it here...
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ebook-how-to-get-started-in-domain-names.1149465/

It seems to me the most valuable thread on outbound on NamePros is the one already mentioned by @rohitgoyal. In particular he put a lot of effort into answering the questions, so don't just read the initial post but the entire thread.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/outbound-process-for-beginners.1101291/

This NamePros blog post by @James Iles based on an interview with @Mike Robertson has a wealth of good information
https://www.namepros.com/blog/how-t...ith-mike-robertson-part-1-the-basics.1120129/

There have also been a few DNW podcast issues on the topic, and of course Domain Sherpa or taking the Domain Name Academy course.

I personally dislike doing outbound, and in any case Canadian spam laws make it difficult to do, but I do realize that effective outbound will increase sell through rate and also make sales of some domain names that would not otherwise sell.

I think we should not necessarily view outbound or inbound as the only two extremes. Some domain investors effectively use social media, especially platforms like LinkedIn and Twitter, to make that first connection that will later open doors to a fuller approach in some cases.

For brandable domain names it is nice that the brandable marketplaces in essence find buyers, to at least some degree. There is no similar venue for phrase type domain names, however, at least to my knowledge.

Bob

@Bob Hawkes you have highlighted all the important posts related to outbound... however any who would be serious about outbound would have taken the pain and gone through all these wonderful posts already...

 

[dirk]

My heritage is EU Jew, and I'm sure some of my ancestor's can help

Lol. Got that covered then . But seriously, like @karmaco stated, outbound in bulk as practiced by some domainers simply isn't good practice.

I know it'll boost sales but you'd be operating in a grey area. If you want to cut corners there are other industries that will make you more with less time and effort involved.

I wouldn't like a random car dealer dealer herassing me with the offer to upgrade my car. How is this different with people flogging domains? I guess some ethics cannot not taught.

Anyway, @Bob Hawkes got me thinking about phrase marketplaces. I don't know of any either and think that niche may actually be a good fit for you.

Get your pricing right and that could actually be a viable thing.

 

[BoGoKing]

You've been here 2 years now. And stuff newbies would pick up in their first month, you still haven't -

I think I posted about this last year. You still haven't figured out a landing page. The ones you keeping using have it where somebody needs to pay $70 for a GD broker to contact you. You're still not listing your domains in the various marketplaces. 2 years and not seeing much learning take place.

This thread is like all your others. Back in the day I blah blah blah, check my LinkedIn blah blah blah. Now it's you trying to find some broker to sell your names, willing to give them ridiculous amounts. This business simply isn't for you. You don't get it, you've shown no indication that you ever will.

JB and the domain cabal...thanks again for adding to all my FUN And it is my fun, much to the chagrin of my critics. Although I didn't vote for him, don't you see the fun that President Donald J. Trump is having much to the chagrin of his critics.

Probably the major difference between the majority of my critics and me is the FACT that I've actually employed and managed hundreds of people in my lifetime. It sounds to me like you and your friends are all solo practitioners domainers and couldn't manage your way out of a wet paper bag And this is in addition to my having founded, started, operated, bought, sold and yes successfully NAMED dozens of businesses since college in 1970.

And just for the record, I've been hired and PAID over $10,000 to help start ups STARTUP! Oh, did I tell you how much fun this has been for me...much to your chagrin and consternation. I'm not just laughing on the inside, if we were skyping or doing face time (I've done neither) you would witness me physically laughing on the outside.

Finally, I meet new people every single day of my life because that's my thing, and I learn something new from each and every one of them. For instance, just last night I met a nationally recognized comedian JP Walsh and his lady friend at Bo Bo's Chicken on Shore Drive here in Virginia Beach. It turns out they're good friends with Bo who recently became a friend of mine. They learned as did Bo that I had just the day before bought a domain for Bo....BoBoWings.com. It cost me a whopping $8.50 although I guess I could have saved a $ and bought it from Epik instead of what Rob Monster calls NoDaddy's. And much to the chagrin of Rob, I'll probably NEVER return to buying names from Epik Finally, the topic of domains came around to where JP and his lady friend learned that I own over a thousand domains, one of which is SavorManhattan.com, and because JP is from Manhattan and does a gig at Caroline's in addition to around the world, he thought he might be able to help me sell Savor Manhattan for more than what I paid for it. I don't know how much you pay for your domains JB, but mine are so cheap I can afford to give them away "if" they'll pay me later Now that I think about it, I may incorporate in my "outbound" business model a domain "give away" where I'm paid only if the domain works for the customer. As you probably know, if it doesn't work, it comes back to me anyway. JB or anyone listening, how do you like that "outbound" strategy? I'd luv to hear your comments

I told Bo Bo that BoBoWings.com is his if only he comes up with a great "Wings" recipe to compliment his new businesss BoBosFineChicken.com. JB, you and others reading this should check out the website for BoBo's chicken. A lot of people including myself doubted Bo would make it because most new restaurants fail, but he's KILLING it

Let me ask you and the rest of the cabal, would the little story I just shared be considered "outbound" sales? Inquiring minds would luv to know. Thanks and God Bless each and everyone of you...you truly do Make My Shave Day!

 

[BoGoKing]

@Bob Hawkes you have highlighted all the important posts related to outbound... however any who would be serious about outbound would have taken the pain and gone through all these wonderful posts already...

rohit...is this your name? Bob Hawkes has become a friend and ally, and I believe the feeling is mutual. When I find the time I want to read through all the threads and other materials recommended by you and others here, but before I do I'd like you and others opinions about a "Domain Give Away" model I'm thinking about. It's based on when I was a kid and shoveled snow walkways and driveways in my neighborhood. After working my arse off my customer would ask "How much do I owe you Richard?" to which I would say, oh i don't know, just pay me what you think I deserve As it turned out 80% of my customers (think 80/20 rule) would pay me more than I would have asked for....go figure? Domains are "cheap" in the big scheme of things, and I know I have hundreds of domains that I would use for my business any day of the week. Here are the last few domains I hand reg'd recently;
MakeMyShave.com, BoBoWings.com, PerformanceShave.com and RevolutionizeGolf.com. These domains are all com's, and cost me just $8.50 a piece. Collectively these domains cost a total of $34 and they appraise for $4,500 at GD (note, this is one of the reasons I own GD domains instead of Epik domains much to the chagrin of Rob Monster). Here's the idea, I'd gladly give any of these domains to customers who would agree to pay me later as long as they promised they would use them. I've learned in life that "most" people are honest, and I trust them to do the right thing, and in some cases do even more than you might expect. Make sense? Thanks

 

[Joe N]

For example, I own well over a hundred domains that apply specifically to the real estate and trades industry...nothing like MakeMyShave.com rather DistinctionHomes.com, Johnson.Homes and 757Waterfront.com

The names you mentioned still aren't the types of names that sell well via outbound marketing. They're brands that people need to make a personal connection with before they can be ready to spend a couple thousand on them. Personal connections are not made when sales people try to sell you unsolicited things.

Let's say you show DistinctionHomes.com to a potential buyer... Sure, it's a neat sounding name. Are they going to pay $2,000 for it? More likely they would just run with the concept and hand register MotivationHomes, TemptationHomes, PerceptionHomes, or some other "homes" name with a positive, descriptive noun. They'll do this because they have no reason to personally or professionally connect with the word "distinction".

Now, you want to really do outbound on this name? Here are your potential buyers:

• www.distinctionhomes.com.au
• ttps://distinctionhomes.co.uk
• distinctionhomesaustralia.com

Of course you see the issue here... UDRP claim risk! And therein lies the inherent issue with doing outbound on brand names.

• The people who want the name could legally take it if you approach them.
• The people who cannot legally take it have no reason to want it.

You say your names are industry-specific. Yes, I agree. Can you easily target good potential buyers with them? I don't believe so.

 

[BoGoKing]

The names you mentioned still aren't the types of names that sell well via outbound marketing. They're brands that people need to make a personal connection with before they can be ready to spend a couple thousand on them. Personal connections are not made when sales people try to sell you unsolicited things.

Let's say you show DistinctionHomes.com to a potential buyer... Sure, it's a neat sounding name. Are they going to pay $2,000 for it? More likely they would just run with the concept and hand register MotivationHomes, TemptationHomes, PerceptionHomes, or some other "homes" name with a positive, descriptive noun. They'll do this because they have no reason to personally or professionally connect with the word "distinction".

Now, you want to really do outbound on this name? Here are your potential buyers:

• 
  

Of course you see the issue here... UDRP claim risk! And therein lies the inherent issue with doing outbound on brand names.

• The people who want the name could legally take it if you approach them.
• The people who cannot legally take it have no reason to want it.

You say your names are industry-specific. Yes, I agree. Can you easily target good potential buyers with them? I don't believe so.

"The names you mentioned still aren't the types of names that sell well via outbound marketing."
and how do you know this Joe?...you needn't answer or attempt to answer because YOU DON'T!
Like with another one of the cabal...i didn't read beyond your first sentence because it's a waste of your time to try and tell me what I can and can't do. You may want to read what I said about "Domain Give Aways", and how I trust "most" people to do the right thing. Give it a rest will ya

 

[wurdd]

I've been working on your radio treatment for MakeMyShave. It's gonna sell like hot cakes, baby. Set to Pump up the Jam:

Pump up the shave, pump it up
While you feet are stompin'
And the shave is pumpin'
Look at here the crowd is jumpin'
Pump it up a little more
Get the party going on the dance floor
Seek us that's where the party's at
And you'll find out if you're too bad
I don't want a place to stay
Get your booty on the floor tonight
Make my shave
I don't want a place to stay
Get your booty on the floor tonight
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave dot com

You can owe me Bulloney.

 

[BoGoKing]

I've been working on your radio treatment for MakeMyShave. It's gonna sell like hot cakes, baby. Set to Pump up the Jam:

Pump up the shave, pump it up
While you feet are stompin'
And the shave is pumpin'
Look at here the crowd is jumpin'
Pump it up a little more
Get the party going on the dance floor
Seek us that's where the party's at
And you'll find out if you're too bad
I don't want a place to stay
Get your booty on the floor tonight
Make my shave
I don't want a place to stay
Get your booty on the floor tonight
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave
Make my shave dot com

You can owe me Bulloney.

wurdd...like I just told someone else here you are wasting your time trying to "force feed" me anything. I use to have to "force feed" a Basset hound I showed to fatten him up for a show, and Lord Mergatroid of Antwerp, his AKC registered name, didn't like it one bit. Consider this your payment young fella, and if you don't have anything worthwhile to say or contribute than I would suggest you take my FREE advice and move on

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I hope this is not taking thread off-topic, but does anyone know of an analysis that tried to estimate what percentage of domain sales came in various ways? For example

1. Via searches or agent guidance at general purpose marketplaces (Sedo, Aternic, DAN, etc.)
2. Via brandable or other specialized marketplaces.
3. Directly from the landing page by someone who searched for that specific name
4. Via outbound efforts of one type or another (phone, email, social media message, etc.)
5. By brokers.
6. Through auctions.
7. By advertising the domain name, either online advertisements or traditional.
8. Through other approaches (trade shows, business connections, etc.)

Bob

 

[Joe N]

I hope this is not taking thread off-topic, but does anyone know of an analysis that tried to estimate what percentage of domain sales came in various ways? For example

1. Via searches or agent guidance at general purpose marketplaces (Sedo, Aternic, DAN, etc.)
2. Via brandable or other specialized marketplaces.
3. Directly from the landing page by someone who searched for that specific name
4. Via outbound efforts of one type or another (phone, email, social media message, etc.)
5. By brokers.
6. Through auctions.
7. By advertising the domain name, either online advertisements or traditional.
8. Through other approaches (trade shows, business connections, etc.)

Bob

I'd love to see the results of a study like that, but I suspect unbiased data would be very hard to gather.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I'd love to see the results of a study like that, but I suspect unbiased data would be very hard to gather.

Agree.

And not doubt results vary heavily on type of domain name (even there would be interesting to know what percentage of brandable type names are selling on the brandable marketplaces), and probably price range (e.g. assume broker involvement for anything under $10,000 is rare but not quite zero).

I am wondering whether we could learn something at least from a well constructed poll among NamePros members. I may try that, but first wanted to see if someone can provide links to any previous efforts along these lines.

In some ways one needs to know not only where domains sold, but also what was tried. That makes the effort even more complex.

Bob

 

[Joe N]

Agree.

And not doubt results vary heavily on type of domain name (even there would be interesting to know what percentage of brandable type names are selling on the brandable marketplaces), and probably price range (e.g. assume broker involvement for anything under $10,000 is rare but not quite zero).

I am wondering whether we could learn something at least from a well constructed poll among NamePros members. I may try that, but first wanted to see if someone can provide links to any previous efforts along these lines.

In some ways one needs to know not only where domains sold, but also what was tried. That makes the effort even more complex.

Bob

I imagine part of the challenge would be getting all the various marketplaces and auction sites to share their complete data pertaining to revenue and number of domains sold.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I imagine part of the challenge would be getting all the various marketplaces and auction sites to share their complete data pertaining to revenue and number of domains sold.

I am sure they will not (well maybe not sure but agree it would be highly unlikely). That is why I think some sort of seller report via survey from NamePros members may be only approach, but it is of course limited as any kind of self-reporting is.

I suspect at the very least we could perhaps narrow down the fraction of sales that are in response to landers (i.e. how many sales at marketplaces are where the lander points). Not all of those are lander initiated, but I suspect many are.

Bob

 

[Joe N]

I am sure they will not (well maybe not sure but agree it would be highly unlikely). That is why I think some sort of seller report via survey from NamePros members may be only approach, but it is of course limited as any kind of self-reporting is.

I suspect at the very least we could perhaps narrow down the fraction of sales that are in response to landers (i.e. how many sales at marketplaces are where the lander points). Not all of those are lander initiated, but I suspect many are.

Bob

It could generate some interesting results if you got enough members with large/diverse enough portfolios to contribute...

You would need everyone to provide:

• Total domains owned
• Total domains listed at each exclusive venue (i.e. BB, BP, SH)
• Total listings at non-exclusive marketplaces (Sedo, Afternic, etc)
  
• Total domains sold (broken down by venue, including private via landers and WHOIS email)
• Total value of domains sold (broken down by venue, including private)

I also think you'd want to break down the results into two categories: exclusive listings and non-exclusive listings. This would allow you to make more of an apples-to-apples comparison.

Very cool undertaking, though.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Anyway, @Bob Hawkes got me thinking about phrase marketplaces. I don't know of any either and think that niche may actually be a good fit for you.

I have toyed with the idea of such a marketplace almost since my first days in active domain investing. A place primarily to attract marketing and branding professionals looking for domains for campaigns. I even invested in a domain name that might work for it.

I have not given up the idea of trying to set one up, although someone with better technical skills, strong links to marketing communities, more energy, etc would be better off to do this. Oh and probably about 50 years younger .

Bob