discuss Is domaining worth it?

[saiif2014]

hi
is domainig business worth it ? i mean the poeple who domaing for more than 5 years did you se great results ? and if you invested this 5 or 10 years in other business like website building or any other business i think you will get 10 times more than you get by domaining , am i right ? the money you got from this years of domaining it was worth all this time or not ?

 

[ctmixing]

Ha . Don't agree. Cause you don't know which one will sell, or you would buy only that one. It's a numbers game.

Well... stop playing the numbers game and buy into the ones you believe in! Nothing is guranteed. Not even a good domain name. You cant expect to buy thousands of domains and "expect" a few to pick up the slack for the ones that's not selling. That's unfair to your pockets and the ones that's not selling.

 

[ctmixing]

@ Asfas No pun intended

 

[Asfas1000]

@ Asfas No pun intended

All good mate. I've made my point

 

[JayJay]

Not true...I buy 100 domains for 10 each, I sell 1 for 1000 and declare this as a 10000% ROI ? What about the unsold inventory ?

I agree, this is how more domainers should be viewing this game. Bragging about a 10k% profit while ignoring the other 99 renewals that more than likely ate all of it up immediately looks completely ridiculous as it would in any other industry. Id love to see someone flipping houses sell one for $50k profit while taking losses on the rest posting on a forum about the one house he actually made money on. It would never happen, more than likely he would be pissed off and looking for something else to do.

This is the only industry, other than daytrading/gambling, that we see people be this careless with their money and just blindly renew a ridiculous amount of names hoping to strike gold. This is why you see so many experienced domainers screaming about buying quality in the aftermarket instead of regging 100s of garbage names, most of us already lost money the other way.

 

[DomainVeteran.com]

Domaining has not been worthwhile for me. I am still in loss.

 

[Name Trader]

your adding it wrong. You bought the one domain for 10 and sold it for 1000. That is 990 profit. The other names need to fend for themselves. Treat each domain name as its own.

This is a joke?

You buy 100 domains at $10 each and sell 1 domain for $1000. We are assuming for the sake of argument, you sold it for more but you netted $1000 after deduction of commissions and other transaction costs. Your profit is 0% break-even. $1000 invested and $1000 income. There is no way you can just say to ignore the other 99 domains which you drop after one year. Again for the sake of argument, you don't renew any of those wonderful domains you registered. To make the calculation simple.

There is no way you can separate these domains in reality. You cannot say you had 9900% profit on one domain. When you bought 100. You lost $990 at a negative profit percentage which cannot even be computed on those 99 domains over the year. To end up with 0% break-even. What do you think your profit percentage is after one year?

You are living in cloud cuckoo land.

The next year. You renew those 99 wonderful domains @ $10 each, and you sell none. Or one for $200. What is you profit margin in year 2. What is your profit margin over the 2 years? In both cases you lost a lot of money.

 

[SBS66]

... Id love to see someone flipping houses sell one for $50k profit while taking losses on the rest posting on a forum about the one house he actually made money on. It would never happen, more than likely he would be pissed off and looking for something else to do.

This is the only industry, other than daytrading/gambling, that we see people be this careless with their money and just blindly renew a ridiculous amount of names hoping to strike gold. This is why you see so many experienced domainers screaming about buying quality in the aftermarket instead of regging 100s of garbage names, most of us already lost money the other way.

I always compare domains to real estate. However, real estate you can rent. So a home flipper can rent a rehabbed property until they get the amount they want. Unfortunately, domains don't yet have the popularity of real estate to be able to carry themselves by leasing--even assuming a "good" name. So the comparison, imo, is not an exact match yet.

I have a question about the aftermarket: isn't the aftermarket purchasers composed mostly of domainers? I ask because I don't see an end-use selling a name they had no use for on the aftermarket--most end-users still don't know to list them rather than let them expire. So it is possible that your comment is still valid for after-market purchase?

 

[Bram C.]

If you're making a profit out of something it is worth it, it you don't it isn't worth it. That goes for every business, it doesn't apply to domaining only.

A lot of people do domaining as a hobby. As they have a full-time job they can afford to gamble a little bit. Sometimes it pans out, sometimes it doesn't. In the end even if they lose money with domaining they still have their monthly income from their main job to rely on. So they can decide for themselves if domaining is worth continuing or not.

I started out with domaining as a hobby as well. And used money from sales to re-invest in better domains and grow my portfolio. Only after I knew I was making enough money I decided to do it full-time. But nothing is guaranteed in life. I realize that domaining is worth it for me now but maybe next year it won't be.

 

[JayJay]

I always compare domains to real estate. However, real estate you can rent.
I have a question about the aftermarket: isn't the aftermarket purchasers composed mostly of domainers?

That is true about real estate, I just meant it as an example of how domainers shouldn't brag so much about major wins and dont mention their losses because it looks ridiculous. I for example have sold a few hand regs over the years for a total of low xx,xxx which looks incredible per name % wise until counting 8 years of renewals of between 100-250 names depending on the year. Im barely at a profit. At the time I felt like such a hot shot with my first few sales til I did the math on the rest.

The aftermarket comment refers to a domainer buying another domainers quality name or catching it from a drop, which most likely wouldnt be a recent hand reg (unless its an emerging/future tech and happens to be excellent) for say $500 because it actually does have perceived value after doing your due diligence instead of spending $500 on 50-100 hand regs and renewing (for sometimes far more) or dropping all of them a year later.

If I could go back Id have bought far fewer names, I'd still chase emerging tech like I do now but only on the side and I'd stick to finding real value that sometimes goes for a discount in the drops or by making offers privately. I'd also have developed more, instead of letting them collect dust.

 

[SBS66]

@JayJay thank you.

I agree with you overall, but I also think it has to be a combination. So if I buy 1 domain name and sell that, I can consider the ROI for that name as well as in the scheme of my business. For the business side, I created a budget..not surprisingly this month I'm in the read because I've bought a few domains. So, I've decided to stay away from ExpiredDomains.net and the sales section here. I also have 1 pending sale that if the invoice is paid, will put me in the black for the month (only, lol)

 

[ctmixing]

This is a joke?

You buy 100 domains at $10 each and sell 1 domain for $1000. We are assuming for the sake of argument, you sold it for more but you netted $1000 after deduction of commissions and other transaction costs. Your profit is 0% break-even. $1000 invested and $1000 income. There is no way you can just say to ignore the other 99 domains which you drop after one year. Again for the sake of argument, you don't renew any of those wonderful domains you registered. To make the calculation simple.

There is no way you can separate these domains in reality. You cannot say you had 9900% profit on one domain. When you bought 100. You lost $990 at a negative profit percentage which cannot even be computed on those 99 domains over the year. To end up with 0% break-even. What do you think your profit percentage is after one year?

You are living in cloud cuckoo land.

The next year. You renew those 99 wonderful domains @ $10 each, and you sell none. Or one for $200. What is you profit margin in year 2. What is your profit margin over the 2 years? In both cases you lost a lot of money.

From a realestate perspective.... take it house by house and not neighborhood by neighborhood

 

[Name Trader]

From a realestate perspective.... take it house by house and not neighborhood by neighborhood

OK you go on believing you made 9900% profit on one domain, and the remainder of your 99 hand-regged domains are stock which you will sell in the future, for 9900% profits also. This part of domaining is not analogous to real estate. You buy a house only once. But you pay yearly for your domain renewals. 100% of your original investment every year.

On your accounting, I'm a multi-millionaire on paper, many times over. Heck I don't need to ever sell another domain to be rich. I can count all my worthless stock of domains at $5k each, because I've sold one domain at that price. I think I go try mortgage them with the bank

There's nothing more to say here.

 

[SBS66]

"red" gotta stop reading

 

[inforg]

The only calculations that matter are

A. What did I spend this year
B. What did I net from sales, parking, etc after commissions this year.

If B is greater than A, then you made a profit. Now you can divide that profit by the number of hours you put in to see if it is worthwhile to continue.

If you must calculate an ROI, it would be total net profit divided by total expense.

ROI =(B-A)/A

It is important to have some idea of your numbers to see if you are pricing at a point that creates a profit based on the percentage of domains sold each year. If you aren't making money. you could be selling too low, pricing too high, or you have a quality issue with your portfolio.

If you buy domains like lottery tickets, your odds of making money are about the same.

 

[Skyvisum]

The only calculations that matter are

A. What did I spend this year
B. What did I net from sales, parking, etc after commissions this year.

If B is greater than A, then you made a profit. Now you can divide that profit by the number of hours you put in to see if it is worthwhile to continue.

If you must calculate an ROI, it would be total net profit divided by total expense.

ROI =(B-A)/A

It is important to have some idea of your numbers to see if you are pricing at a point that creates a profit based on the percentage of domains sold each year. If you aren't making money. you could be selling too low, pricing too high, or you have a quality issue with your portfolio.

If you buy domains like lottery tickets, your odds of making money are about the same.

A lot of these is happening in namepros.:D

 

[Asfas1000]

The only calculations that matter are

A. What did I spend this year
B. What did I net from sales, parking, etc after commissions this year.

Small correction to your calculations : you have to take into account your inventory too. For instance, you may be in the red for the year because you bought an expensive LLL.com , which has not sold yet, but will likely retain its value.

 

[Name Trader]

Small correction to your calculations : you have to take into account your inventory too. For instance, you may be in the red for the year because you bought an expensive LLL.com , which has not sold yet, but will likely retain its value.

I would go further and to say any liquid domain could be considered as stock. Just because you bought something in the last month of the year, doesn't make it 100% loss. But for tax purposes, you might want to write it as an expense. Accounting for domains on a cash-flow basis, expenses the domain at the earliest possible moment. Of course, you need revenue to cover the purchase. I think cash-flow accounting is the most cautious method of accounting for domains though. We are getting into esoterics here. But in principal for calculating ROI, I think you need to be cautious when deferring unsold domains as stock. You can distort your ROI, as is the case of @ctmixing.

 

[papeter]

I don't think it's worth it. It's a pain in the arse type of business. I have been doin it for 10 years now. I have sold quite a few through SEDO and few others, but quite frankly I hate dealing with buyers who try and beat you down and then they pull out and mess you about. I have had some really good transactions over the years, but on the whole, it's a crap business. I'm gradually converting all my names into money websites and anyone who wants to buy my name will have to pay for the site as well at least 10/20 times more!
But then, why should I sell if the ROI is giving me a decent return on my money, Banks aren't! Stocks and shares are risky, but at least I now have more control over my monthly income stream. Plus all my renewals are are being paid for. To hell with DOMAINING. It was good before all these new silly extensions. COM NET ORG Rule.

 

[ctmixing]

I don't think it's worth it. It's a pain in the arse type of business. I have been doin it for 10 years now. I have sold quite a few through SEDO and few others, but quite frankly I hate dealing with buyers who try and beat you down and then they pull out and mess you about. I have had some really good transactions over the years, but on the whole, it's a crap business. I'm gradually converting all my names into money websites and anyone who wants to buy my name will have to pay for the site as well at least 10/20 times more!
But then, why should I sell if the ROI is giving me a decent return on my money, Banks aren't! Stocks and shares are risky, but at least I now have more control over my monthly income stream. Plus all my renewals are are being paid for. To hell with DOMAINING. It was good before all these new silly extensions. COM NET ORG Rule.

Nice perspective. I just started using sedo. Do you have any good tips on how to secure fast and godd transctions using sedo?

 

[ctmixing]

Whats the market like on sedo? Is it 60% domain investors and 40% end-users? What is it?