discuss Is A Collectively Owned Registrar A Good Idea?

[Bob Hawkes]

As part of the discussions around the locked domain names and registrar terms of service, the idea of a collective domainer-owned registrar came up. In order to not take the thread off-track, it was proposed that I should set up a thread for just that topic.

The following comments offered by @oldtimer broadly outlines both what would need to be done.

We probably first need to create a legal entity through some kind of an Association or Corporation so that it can apply for being a Registrar, but you need to check with ICANN to see which legal entities can actually qualify for this according to their rules.

I guess we have to come up with a nice name for our Association and select all the people who are going to run it and probably charge some kind of an Association Fee so that it can become self sustaining by itself.

In my opinion, the primary reason to consider a registrar co-operative would be to make sure that the terms of service protect domainer (and other) rights in a fair and transparent manner that includes due process. It would have a transparent, fair and rapid process for dealing with allegations about domain names. Of course, any registrar would be subject to UDRP, court orders and associated processes.

I think it is very unlikely that a collectively-owned registrar could offer services at lower prices. Some existing registrar is always offering major legacy registrations or transfers below their base cost, and occasionally renewals.They are able to do that because they anticipate additional revenue through services like web hosting, or make commissions when the domain name sells. If a collectively owned registrar was simply a registrar, it would have to charge higher registration fees to break even.

This is not an exclusive list, but some points that might warrant discussion here.

1. How would it be structured legally, and what might be requirements for membership?
2. Would there be an annual cost of membership? If so, what range?
3. What domains would it handle, e.g. just major legacy, almost everything including many country code, or something in between?
4. I presume it would need ICANN accreditation to be widely accepted. Is that right?
5. What things bother us about current commercial registrar offerings?
6. Would it offer other services, and if so which ones? e.g. a marketplace, an expiry stream process, insurance or legal services, etc.
7. Would a domainer-collective registrar face trust issues with the general public, who would probably be unfamiliar with the registrar?
8. Do you see in addition to registrar it having a wholesale marketplace? A retail marketplace? An expired domain process?
9. Would it have the advantage, since starting from scratch, to be able to use modern technology like blockchain record keeping and support for fractional ownership and payment plan record keeping?
10. How do you feel the existing marketplaces would feel about it, and would they work with it?

More broadly, there is the question, with thousands of registrar choices, are we not well enough served already? At least a number of registrars were started by domainers and therefore were focussed on serving domain investors.

There is a thread started by @equity78 asking the main registrars domain investors use to state their ToS and dispute practices. That background is clearly relevant.

I have a few other thoughts, but will leave them for later. Just to make clear, I am not pushing this idea, and definitely not willing to help lead such an initiative, at my age, background and investment level. I do hope to do some research on past efforts along these lines, similar co-operatives in other sectors, and ICANN requirements. Please provide background and links on initiatives like this that have been tried in the past.

Look forward to seeing what everyone thinks.

Bob

(Please vote in the associated poll -- note that you can select multiple items, if desired.)

 

[King]

There are probably enough Registrars in the domain Industry already,

Are we trying to make GD & NC the 2 domain giants?

Maybe members can chip in $1000 each to get the Registrar started and then pay $750 per year to keep it going and in return get .com domains for $7.85 , this could work if we got enough people interested (like at least 1000 members).

This sounds like a tax on domainers. What if I only have 3 domains, do I have to pay $1000 + $773.55 a year?

 

[oldtimer]

$0.99 COMs

Lol

Those $0.99 coupons from the different affiliates and branches of some of the Registrars can put your domains under a different jurisdiction.

IMO

 

[likemike]

I like the idea in theory but like Rob Monster points out there's a lot more to it than just setting up a regular business. He outta know!

 

[AEProgram]

If 2 or more people need to decide on a business decision its already a doomed business in most cases.

 

[oldtimer]

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/financials-55-2012-02-25-en

Add to that 24/7 (US, inhouse) support (office space?), Infrastructure cost (aws?, owned hardware? Owned ASN/IPspace?), dev/maintenance cost (frontend/backend/API), legal, payment processors etc.

It adds up.

Thanks for the info,

In addition this is from Verisign that explains the requirements for becoming a Registrar in the first place:

https://www.verisign.com/en_US/channel-resources/become-a-registrar/index.xhtml

Ultimately whether this project is going to get off the ground or not depends on the domaining community's support and reception to the idea of being in charge themselves.

So I am not going to push for this idea alone if there is not enough enthusiasm on the part of domsiners themselves.

Nevertheless in exploring the possibilities of making our own Registrar we might learn some valuable lessons as to what a perfect Registrar should be and what it is going to take to start one.

IMO

 

[Lox]

1. Would a domainer-collective registrar face trust issues with the general public, who would probably be unfamiliar with the registrar?

1. .... general public, who would probably be familiar with the registrar & most frequently cited by complainants.

 

[oldtimer]

There are probably enough Registrars in the domain Industry already,

If a new Registrar is created it is with the assumption that it’s going to be different than all the other ones that are already out there which in the most part are driven either by ideological agendas or by greed which as we all know in many cases have resulted in some unfair, discriminatory, overreaching, or illegal practices.

So this can’t be like just another Registrar that has succumbed to the status quo in the domain Industry, this has to be something revolutionary in all its aspects.

The Domainers' Registrar perhaps could only be made available through membership at the beginning and offer limited services until we can figure out what direction we want it to go.

Maybe members can chip in $1000 each to get the Registrar started and then pay $750 per year to keep it going and in return get .com domains for $7.85 , this could work if we got enough people interested (like at least 1000 members).

It's worth noting that whenever discretion is involved in making a decision or a choice all matters at hand should be put to a vote amongst all members, so that there will be no single person who can decide for example to lock anyone's domain or change any of the prices.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

I know it's probably too early to choose a name for our Collective Registrar,

But I would like to reserve this as a possible candidate:

dnFortress.com



The best and safest Registrar in the World for Domainers! © (Membership Required)

(All Rights Reserved)

 

[oldtimer]

but being taken-over or bought-out, is the end game anyways, right?

imo...

Hi biggie,

Not necessarily, remember the .org where most people including a lot of the domainers were against the takeover.

 

[oldtimer]

There are many things that have to be ironed out here, but once a legal mechanism is created like an Association then the Members can vote on all the issues and questions at hand.

As I have mentioned before, it's probably best to keep things kind of simple at the beginning and later on if everyone votes to do so more options can be added such as having a marketplace or other domain related services.

To get things started we need to create the Association first and so it's probably best to discuss how best to go about doing that.

IMO

I like the idea alot because there are minuses to every single existing registrar. Which begs the question— how would this one be any less flawed? Even if you get past all the other hurdles why would people put up money for a biz that doesn’t really make money?

A domainer owned marketplace makes more sense to me as that can at least be profitable if done right.

I think this idea will only work if it is a non-profit organization, other than that it will be just another business with profit as main objective.

So I think it will be more clear if we agree about what are the objectives and purposes of this idea first.

Does it mean that every "owner" will get to see the entirety of other "owners" portfolios?
And after that we'll open a domain market with mutual peeking at offers and transactions?

 

[King]

If this were to come to fruition, we will of course not want to pay more than the registry charges. We need to think about how will the registrar stay alive? Will some people pitch in what they can? Someone pays for hosting, someone takes care of legal, etc... What if one person leaves and we can't find a good replacement?

Some things to consider. If we can figure it out, I can definitely help with the branding and design.

 

[Name Trader]

I believe this is an impossibility to achieve. There I said it.

 

[jtl]

Here's my two cents.

I think a registrar charging "more" versus just a dollar or so above registry fee will be against some folks interest, but I think in the long run, paying more for a registrar that will stay in business and not get acquired in a year or whatever is a better longer term strategy.

Someone once told me that certain "brand protection" esque companies typically charge in a range of $20-35/domain/year for a .COM. May seem expensive, but given the extras of such service included (WHOIS privacy, due process in the event of complaints/disputes, technically oriented and reliable customer service) I certainly think it has some value in these times.

 

[Maximinus]

Hello @Bob Hawkes ,

As you have mentioned in the first place:

As part of the discussions around the locked domain names and registrar terms of service

The question should probably not be around any registrar's ownership, but rather around changing some of existing registrar's terms of service, as they are not carved in stone!
From the moment an existing registrar will guarantee:
1. The presumption of innocence of every customer is a top priority.
2. Filing a case or court decision out of registrar's initial location can not result in domain lock or change of ownership.
3. Transparent and imediate(24hours) communication of any legal issue with the domain owner.
I will be happy to be their customer!

Best Regards

 

[FolioTeam]

$0.99 COMs

Lol

 

[Montecar]

In any business idea, you need to understand your personal interest and how this project will be monetized. Otherwise, I'm sorry, why would anyone want to do this? The collective management system has clear advantages, but also clear disadvantages. First of all, I am sure that this is a system of management and personal interest

 

[oldtimer]

I like the idea in theory but like Rob Monster points out there's a lot more to it than just setting up a regular business. He outta know!

I agree,

We welcome any and all advice and assistance from the people who have a proven track record in the domain Industry and that are already familiar with all aspects of running a Registrar and or an Association, but even if we use someone's expertise directly as a paid consultant or employee or whether we just take advantage of the products and services that their company provides, We The Domainers as a Collective still have to be in charge of all the executive decision making processes and must be able to choose the direction and vision that we like for our Registrar and Association to have.

Although people should be free to align their own company with whomever they want to cater to when it comes to what they consider to be right politically, religiously, racially, or socially and certainly should have the right to do whatever they see fit to maximize their profits and perhaps even be looking forward to getting bought for a huge sum at the end,

But those are not the visions and goals that we want to have for our Collectively Owned Registrar and Association which are primarily going to be created (perhaps as nonprofits) to serve the needs of its membership.

This should be looked at as a new and revolutionary idea that is going to go beyond the way that business is currently being handled in the domain Industry.

We would be very happy to get any and all help from any of the big players in the status quo as long as it is with the understanding that it's the status quo of the domain Industry itself that we are trying to change for the Domaining Community here.



IMO

 

[oldtimer]

It might be better to test the idea first by outsourcing the registrations to one of the big registrars that offers whitelabel hosting and registration as a service. That way, if the operation manages to reach the critical mass of domain names and customers to make ICANN accreditiation financially viable, it can be examined. The domainer aspect might have to take a back seat for a while. While a domainer friendly registrar is nice in theory, its commercial reality that is the problem that has to be solved first.

Regards...jmcc

Thanks for all the valuable info,

One factor that we are counting on is the domainers attraction and loyalty to a collectively owned and operated Registrar and Association that are going to be managed by domainers themselves.

The ongoing frustrations of the domaining community which has resulted from the unfair treatment that they have been receiving from some of the existing Registrars has created an awarness amongst domainers for the fact that they are not being appreciated by the status quo in the domain Industry and hence has given us the idea to take the matters into our own hands.

This is not really about making a profit as our Registrar and Association might be run as nonprofits. This project and the idea behind it has to do more about standing up for our Rights as customers and Registrants.

By the way do you know how much it will roughly cost to create an accredited Registrar and the yearly fees if we were going to keep this limited to .com domains at the beginning.

IMO

 

[TheBaldOne]

In principle it is a good idea, but the business proposal itself I 'think' would prove inoperable.

Sorry, but I could see almost continual disagreements and arguments, factions forming, and indeed some domainers leaving because they felt slighted, etc., by other members.

I think that it is better to have a really good mix of registrars where we can exert influence over with our own $$$'s by moving domains and other business away from them.