I'm giving up a money-making secret

[Seabass]

I debated telling the whole NP crowd this but I can't see how it would cut me out of any earnings and I wanted to help other NP's make a little more cash in these rough times. So here it is :

I started fooling around with eBay and using their direct linking method began to add generic domains to each corresponding page that matched up with the product. No website creation is necessary....just use the direct link method in EPN.

Well.....after tinkering around with it using different verticals most of which don't work....I found something that does. Animal domains.....especially one word animal domains.

Now don't ask me why, but they convert to $$$ better than domain parking does with any parking company I've ever used. It literally is putting over $x,xxx more per month to the bottom line over and above what I was making in domain parking. And....they rarely buy anything related to the domain's subject matter.

It's unreal. The success may be tied somehow to folks looking for a deal, but it seems to work best with animal domains and I just can't figure out why.

Regarding other types of domains I have found about one in ten to fifteen do better at eBay than they do parked.

Try it for a month and see. Good luck.

* Ever notice Sendori sends every third visitor to eBay. Why is that? :hehe:

 

[PawnShopsNet]

First Sendori does it by the advertisers asking/paying for it. If they do it for eBay then eBay is an advertiser of theirs and they have an agreement.

Now for EPN affiliates -

1) EPN Code of Conduct

A. Non-Bona Fide Transactions.

3. You will not interfere with or seek to improperly influence the referral of an end user to Participating Sites and Content unless the end user knowingly and explicitly consents to that behavior by taking an affirmative action.

The user expected to go to the domain typed in not to eBay. They did not consent to be sent to eBay. So no it's not allowed.

2) Network Agreement

F. Restricted Activities.

4. Special Promotional Methods. Promoting Participating Sites and Content using any Promotional Methods other than a Link on your own website is considered a "Special Promotional Method". If your Special Promotional Method is not approved by the Program Terms, you are required to obtain ePN's or the Advertiser's express written permission in advance to use that Promotional Method in that Program. You are responsible for verifying whether the applicable Program Terms allow or approve your Special Promotional Method. ePN reserves the right to request you to terminate any special Promotional Method at any time, with or without notice or cause, and you agree to immediately comply.

So you have to have permission. By this statement you can if you have permission.

A pink just posted on EPN discussion board. It's not allowed.

 

[Seabass]

So you have to have permission. By this statement you can if you have permission.

A pink just posted on EPN discussion board. It's not allowed.

Thanks for tracking that down.....ouch !

Just a couple of questions.

So does that Casey guy work for eBay, or is he a moderator, on the EPN forum that posted that "pink post" ?

Also, what is a "pink post"? Is that something that only eBay mods can post....or is it to highlight an issue?

Off the subject kinda'.......but you've been a member of NP since April 2007 and this is your first post? What made you post finally?
.

 

[ginggang]

Thanks for tracking that down.....ouch !

Just a couple of questions.

So does that Casey guy work for eBay, or is he a moderator, on the EPN forum that posted that "pink post" ?

Also, what is a "pink post"? Is that something that only eBay mods can post....or is it to highlight an issue?

Off the subject kinda'.......but you've been a member of NP since April 2007 and this is your first post? What made you post finally?
.

Pink post means the poster is an ebay employee.. BUT.... from experience they are not nesscarily completely in the know on all things Ebay. I would go directly the the EPN agent rather than ask on a community board.

 

[rpanella]

As it's a redirection there is no attempt at deception ? The method being discussed here is using a type-in redirection ie it's relevant to the user . The OP states that the domain name redirects to a relevant Ebay link based on the domain name. I don't see how that be construed as cookie stuffing ?

Deception is not required for cookie stuffing. It simply means loading a cookie on every visitor to your site, without them having any intent to visit eBay.

What the heck are you talking about?

Nobody is cookie stuffing. Where would you get an ideal like that?

So you aren't loading an eBay cookie on every visitor to your domain, and then profiting when a small percentage coincidentally buy completely unrelated items while still having your cookie?

This is no new method, and its never been allowed by eBay.

 

[PawnShopsNet]

seabass,

Don't remember exactly how I got here in 07. Just don't get to many boards as I do this on the side. Posted as I was in the discussion on EPN board and someone posted a link to here. Casey is an EPN employee. ginggang you are correct about just taking a board post as law but it is against the Network agreement unless you have permission from EPN to do it as it is not a clickable link on a website. This type is type of promotion of eBay through the affiliate links that is allowed without permission.

F. Restricted Activities.

4. Special Promotional Methods. Promoting Participating Sites and Content using any Promotional Methods other than a Link on your own website is considered a "Special Promotional Method". If your Special Promotional Method is not approved by the Program Terms, you are required to obtain ePN's or the Advertiser's express written permission in advance to use that Promotional Method in that Program.

Pretty cut and dry. If it's not a link on your site (url redirection is not a link on your site, whether it's a DNS redirect, .htaccess, or another type of redirect) you have to have permission.

 

[Seabass]

Deception is not required for cookie stuffing. It simply means loading a cookie on every visitor to your site, without them having any intent to visit eBay.



So you aren't loading an eBay cookie on every visitor to your domain, and then profiting when a small percentage coincidentally buy completely unrelated items while still having your cookie?

This is no new method, and its never been allowed by eBay.

No...I am not loading cookies. eBay loads one once the visitor reaches their site and it lasts for seven days. But, no cookie is coming from me.

 

[ginggang]

Pretty cut and dry. If it's not a link on your site (url redirection is not a link on your site, whether it's a DNS redirect, .htaccess, or another type of redirect) you have to have permission.

Which is what I said further on up in ther thread. It needs to be agreed. The TOS say what you can't do not what you can do.

If the redirection is based on a relevant terms I can only see that as a positive for Ebay. Using my example of lovelymonkeys.com it would benefit Ebay to actualy send the traffic to them. I see very little difference in building a page saying "Get lovely Monkeys on Ebay by clicking here" that forwards to Ebay and a straight redirection.

The original OP was trying to avoid building sites based on very specfic keywords and linking that to a relevant campaign. Seems very logical to me.


Seabass has kind of opened himself/herself up here if not agreed with EPN.

I've not had a response yet to my sign up. Anyone else got clarification directly on the specific question ?

Can I do a domain redirection based on a specific keyword within the domain linked to the same keyword in a campaign ? I think that is what needs to be asked. :lol:

 

[Seabass]

seabass,
..............
F. Restricted Activities.

4. Special Promotional Methods. Promoting Participating Sites and Content using any Promotional Methods other than a Link on your own website is considered a "Special Promotional Method". If your Special Promotional Method is not approved by the Program Terms, you are required to obtain ePN's or the Advertiser's express written permission in advance to use that Promotional Method in that Program.

Pretty cut and dry. If it's not a link on your site (url redirection is not a link on your site, whether it's a DNS redirect, .htaccess, or another type of redirect) you have to have permission.

PawnShopsNet,

You're right.

I read that differently the first time around. I actually had to reread it and the definitions again a few times.

I initially read that to mean if I was promoting "Participating Sites and content" as being third party sites that sell eBay products, products being the "content", but a closer look shows that the second part "content" could be anything....meaning the content directly on eBay's site. It's broad enough to apply. "Participating Sites" definition is essentially the third party "Advertiser" sites, of which I am not promoting.....just eBay......but the "content" part is what sticks I believe. The definition of "Advertiser" speaks of "Advertiser's website and/or content", of which his or her "content" could be listed on eBay, and not just on his or her stand-alone site.

I'm going to ask them anyhow.....anyone got a phone number? Not to question the eBay post, but I want to call them as I think I can clear it up easier with a phone call if I can explain what I am doing. I see it as being innocuous so I don't see why they would care. The sales and ACRUs are are very strong so the folks must like what they see.

If not.........oh well......on to the next idea. Sucks though....I thought I had found something that would help everyone.

Phone number anyone? I used to have one but that was years ago.
.

 

[Sameh]

Please, keep us updated.

I'm going to ask them anyhow.....anyone got a phone number? Not to question the eBay post, but I want to call them as I think I can clear it up easier with a phone call if I can explain what I am doing. I see it as being innocuous so I don't see why they would care. The sales and ACRUs are are very strong so the folks must like what they see.

If not.........oh well......on to the next idea. Sucks though....I thought I had found something that would help everyone.

Phone number anyone? I used to have one but that was years ago.
.

 

[john_karr]

do this really work?

 

[dbtbandit67]

PawnShopsNet,

You're right.

I read that differently the first time around. I actually had to reread it and the definitions again a few times.

I initially read that to mean if I was promoting "Participating Sites and content" as being third party sites that sell eBay products, products being the "content", but a closer look shows that the second part "content" could be anything....meaning the content directly on eBay's site. It's broad enough to apply. "Participating Sites" definition is essentially the third party "Advertiser" sites, of which I am not promoting.....just eBay......but the "content" part is what sticks I believe. The definition of "Advertiser" speaks of "Advertiser's website and/or content", of which his or her "content" could be listed on eBay, and not just on his or her stand-alone site.

I'm going to ask them anyhow.....anyone got a phone number? Not to question the eBay post, but I want to call them as I think I can clear it up easier with a phone call if I can explain what I am doing. I see it as being innocuous so I don't see why they would care. The sales and ACRUs are are very strong so the folks must like what they see.

If not.........oh well......on to the next idea. Sucks though....I thought I had found something that would help everyone.

Phone number anyone? I used to have one but that was years ago.
.

as Franklin Roosevelt said: if one idea fails move on to the next one. at least your trying to come up with ways to monetize a domain that pays better than parked that doesnt require a lot of nagging effort.

i think if the traffic is there (as the case with typos of generic terms) the BANs stores don't have to be that great. you could probably get away with not having content at all.

 

[Seabass]

do this really work?

It does for Sendori. So they got permission, or just started doing it.

That is why I don't think they will care about a redirect (these are high-quality generics, not crappy domains), but better safe than sorry. It's not spelled out very clearly......but it definitely can be read to be against the TOS if you look at it carefully.

If nobody can provide me with a phone number via PM and since I have not been able to locate one myself, I'll call Sendori and get the scoop from them on why they are able to do it. I don't totally trust the answers in EPN forum based on what was said here and a couple bad answers to other questions I got before.

Truthfully, what is the difference between someone typing in HowlerMonkeys,com and ending up at the "monkey" category at eBay....... and someone typing in HowlerMonkeys,com and ending up on a page with the same eBay monkey category ads? Not much really. In either case they still have to do a search and buy something. Same difference.

If I can't do the redirect, I bet if I make a few BANS pages on those same domains I could do as well, or almost as well as the redirect, or even better if I get indexed.

I'm not sure why they would not want all those sales if the redirect is performing well and sending good/great ACRUs.......but I did see them nix affiliates last year that were doing $20,000 or more per month in commissions to the astonishment of the whole eBay affiliate industry. Top performers were supposedly nixed and accounts closed with little explanation. This is part of why eBay has been suffering, along with unreasonable terms for eBay sellers, such as getting rid of the customer ratings, changing fees all around, etc......

I'm just guessing.......but I would imagine what they really don't want is someone pushing total sh*t traffic, like 20,000 uniques a day, into eBay which only makes $50, for example. It would be using up eBay's bandwidth resources for little return, and also an indicator that the surfers don't like what they see, thus tarnishing the brand.
.

 

[PawnShopsNet]

seabass,

Participating Sites are the eBay sites.

A. Definitions.
5. Participating Sites and Content - Any Advertiser website or content that is designated as being eligible for promotion by Affiliates through the Network.

eBay US, eBay UK..... etc are the third party Advertisers that Affiliates promote on their website. As an EPN affiliate you and eBay have no contractual relationship with each other. Advertisers (ie eBay) and Affiliates (you) have contractual relationships with EPN only.


ginggang

If the redirection is based on a relevant terms I can only see that as a positive for Ebay. Using my example of lovelymonkeys.com it would benefit Ebay to actualy send the traffic to them. I see very little difference in building a page saying "Get lovely Monkeys on Ebay by clicking here" that forwards to Ebay and a straight redirection.

It clearly states that if you do anything other than have links on your site you have to have permission.

"Get lovely Monkeys on Ebay by clicking here" - This too is in violation.

Can I do a domain redirection based on a specific keyword within the domain linked to the same keyword in a campaign ? - Not with out permission from EPN

 

[Seabass]

as Franklin Roosevelt said: if one idea fails move on to the next one. at least your trying to come up with ways to monetize a domain that pays better than parked that doesnt require a lot of nagging effort.

i think if the traffic is there (as the case with typos of generic terms) the BANs stores don't have to be that great. you could probably get away with not having content at all.

When you create those BANS pages, or other type of pages, you do have to have some content. eBay said last year that many affiliates sites were not "engaging enough" and closed all their accounts without any more explanation. After a firestorm of protest......they clarified what that meant a little. It took them like two weeks or month, I forget, to explain. By then everyone was livid.

You gotta' admit "engaging enough" is a very loose phrase, but you can see their point. However, they created a lot of bad PR for themselves b/c they not only rubbed the folks wrong that got their accounts nixed, but the remaining ones also b/c they did not know if they would get canned also. Many of these folks put a ton of work into their sites to lose it all in a day. Many of the remaining ones just stopped doing any additional work and just let their current efforts ride their course while they turned their attention to other ventures that seemed more promising.

It's just a hunch, but I'm guessing if you have really great domains they won't can you. Great domains bring great customers.....usually.

Now that eBay has been bruised financially, lost market share to competitors, they are starting to be more amenable to listening to their advertisers and affiliates.......they had no choice.....they were losing market share. Many advertisers left and made it clear they would never be back.......and many became successful without eBay.
.

 

[PawnShopsNet]

Truthfully, what is the difference between someone typing in HowlerMonkeys,com and ending up at the "monkey" category at eBay....... and someone typing in HowlerMonkeys,com and ending up on a page with the same eBay monkey category ads? Not much really. In either case they still have to do a search and buy something. Same difference.

Big difference. In the case of typing in HowlerMonkeys,com and ending up on eBay the user was taken there without knowing that they were going to eBay.

C. Your Participation in the Network and Promoting Participating Sites and Content

5. Approval for Links, Content and Tools. All Links and Promotional Content you use must be clearly recognizable as an advertisement for the relevant Participating Sites and Content.

A domain redirect does not clearly show that you are promoting eBay.

"It's not spelled out very clearly......" -

Promoting Participating Sites and Content (eBay) using any Promotional Methods other than a Link on your own website is considered a "Special Promotional Method". If your Special Promotional Method is not approved by the Program Terms, you are required to obtain ePN's or the Advertiser's express written permission in advance to use that Promotional Method in that Program.

And I speak from someone that was doing this just after the switch and just about got canned.

 

[Seabass]

seabass,

Participating Sites are the eBay sites.

A. Definitions.
5. Participating Sites and Content - Any Advertiser website or content that is designated as being eligible for promotion by Affiliates through the Network.

eBay US, eBay UK..... etc are the third party Advertisers that Affiliates promote on their website. As an EPN affiliate you and eBay have no contractual relationship with each other. Advertisers (ie eBay) and Affiliates (you) have contractual relationships with EPN only.

The Advertisers are not eBay. Let's look at Participating Sites and Content :

Participating Sites and Content - Any Advertiser website or content........ (This says any Advertiser)

Now......let's go look at the definition of "Advertiser"

Advertiser - A company or individual that participates in the Network for the purposes of enabling Affiliates to promote such Advertiser's website and/or content. All Advertisers are subject to the prior approval of ePN. Advertisers do not have a direct contractual relationship related to the Network with Affiliates.

I'm an Affiliate......not an Advertiser.

They are saying the Advertiser has no relationship with me.....the Affiliate.

This is why I read the TOS about five times.......it's confusing a little.

.

Truthfully, what is the difference between someone typing in HowlerMonkeys,com and ending up at the "monkey" category at eBay....... and someone typing in HowlerMonkeys,com and ending up on a page with the same eBay monkey category ads? Not much really. In either case they still have to do a search and buy something. Same difference.

Big difference. In the case of typing in HowlerMonkeys,com and ending up on eBay the user was taken there without knowing that they were going to eBay

They also would not know they are going to a BANS page either....right? In what instance would they know where they are going?

Do the surfers actually think they are going to get "real howler monkeys"? I'm not trying to be a cute.....just sayin'.

Either way........I think the best thing for me to do is to call them or Sendori. If Sendori says they think it's allowed then I will press for eBay's phone number.

Hey.......I just had a great idea!!! Why not put them in Sendori and tell them I want ALL the traffic to go to eBay.....screw parking.

Hey......BTW..... PawnShopsNet......I do appreciate your viewpoints and analysis of this. I think I would have missed some details in the TOS if you had not pointed it out.
.

 

[codemerc]

Arguments about rights and wrongs are irrelevant, it's eBay's choice.

AS AN AFFILIATE YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO DIRECT A USER TO EBAY WHEN THE USER TAKES SOME PHYSICAL ACTION (CLICKING A LINK) KNOWING THAT THE LINK GOES TO EBAY.

re-directing a domain is NOT ALLOWED.

 

[ginggang]

seabass,

Participating Sites are the eBay sites.

A. Definitions.
5. Participating Sites and Content - Any Advertiser website or content that is designated as being eligible for promotion by Affiliates through the Network.

eBay US, eBay UK..... etc are the third party Advertisers that Affiliates promote on their website. As an EPN affiliate you and eBay have no contractual relationship with each other. Advertisers (ie eBay) and Affiliates (you) have contractual relationships with EPN only.


ginggang


It clearly states that if you do anything other than have links on your site you have to have permission.

"Get lovely Monkeys on Ebay by clicking here" - This too is in violation.

I was meaning a link with that comment as the TOS allows.

 

[PawnShopsNet]

Do the surfers actually think they are going to get "real howler monkeys"? I'm not trying to be a cute.....just sayin'

Your site can be about anything (as long as it does not violate the TOS,Code of Conduct,...) and still send the person to eBay. The point is the users knows they are going to eBay when they click a link or should as you must make it clear that the link will take them to eBay.

I was meaning a link with that comment as the TOS allows.

If you put the 'click here' or similar wording you can lose your account. Most Affiliate programs frown on that.

I'm an Affiliate......not an Advertiser.

Correct. You are an Affiliate. eBay is the advertiser. From the TOS -

"These Advertiser Terms and Conditions are part of the Network Agreement and will govern your participation in all Programs for websites that are operated either by eBay Inc. or eBay International AG (together referred to as "eBay" or the "Advertiser")."

Look at the EPN program the same as CJ, only EPN's Advertisers are the eBay programs. Each of them are different Advertisers with their own terms and payment structures.

The bottom line is - if you use anything other than links on your website you must get express written permission from either EPN or the eBay program you are promoting. This is how Sendori is doing it. (Qualified as I don't know for sure).

I am not here to rile people up. The rules are changing for all affiliate related programs. CJ used to allow most anything as long as it was legal, and you still can do things there that you can't on EPN, but it's getting closer all the time. Even eBay itself is now limiting the links even more on the auctions that you place. If you are selling domains you can't link to the domain name.

Hey......BTW..... PawnShopsNet......I do appreciate your viewpoints and analysis of this. I think I would have missed some details in the TOS if you had not pointed it out.

You are welcome. Remember - Any promotional method other than links on your site must have written approval. So technically an email with rover links can get you terminated unless you have approval.

Also the reason they don't allow the redirects is the scammers and phishing sites caused people to be leery of entering in a url or clicking a link that they thought was taking them somewhere else and ending up on eBay.

 

[Seabass]

Correct. You are an Affiliate. eBay is the advertiser. From the TOS -

"These Advertiser Terms and Conditions are part of the Network Agreement and will govern your participation in all Programs for websites that are operated either by eBay Inc. or eBay International AG (together referred to as "eBay" or the "Advertiser")."


If you are selling domains you can't link to the domain name.

Damn.......now I'm really confused. I can't even find that section in the TOS.

Why can't a person link to a domain being sold? I don't understand that rule.

Anyways.......I'm going to try to run a rep down.

Thanks for trying to clarify things.
.