I am new so please forgive me if I miss the obvious - Domain expired years ago

[jimberan]

Hi guys,

I am new to the domain game so please forgive me if I make any idiotic statements.

As far as I have been able to research, several years ago there was a big problem with registrars like NS and some others were not releasing expired domains as they were supposed to and sitting on them for years even and it supposedly got better lately.

According to a section in the ICANN contract with the registrars, they are obliged to release the name if the original domain holder did not renew after receiving notice.

So gentlemen, I was doing research for a great number of domains this past week and have found some xx xxx domains which expired years ago. The one i am looking at now expired in early 2004 at which time the website that was used dissapeared. The last 2 years the domain simply had a ppc landing page of the registrar. This is clearly against Icann regulations and all normal business practice. Strangly enough after having done extensive research on one particular domain and doing background checks and whois etc, all of a sudden out of the blue there is some type of one page site hosted with appears that a beginner is trying to set up a sit. This is a laugh, nice try guys. But other then this domain I have found many like this.

Is there anything I or we could do so as to get a domain which a registrar is kind of sitting on for such a long period of time. What would they do if I was to approach them along the line of: I think you are mistakingly still holding the domain in question as it expired 3 years ago and offcourse as you know you are obliged to release it some time ago according to ICANN etc etc. As i have been waiting for this domain for so long to expire and you have it allready then I make it easy for you and take it over from you and register it through you so that you can do your job as registrar and get paid for it rather then the domain just sitting there in a not completely legit way.

Anyway, I probably sound like a fool but this is how i do things in the normal business world. Would this in any way work in this biz?

Look forward to your input!

JB

 

[JMJ]

It's likely no mistake and you will find that certain registrars are warehousing domains ALOT more now than they were several years ago. Unfortunately ICANN no longer cares it appears. If they did anything about it that would require work and might cut into their travels around the world.

 

[jimberan]

Ok that i kind of realized allready, i was being sarcastic about them forgetting.

I am just curious to know if anyone or any group of domainers has obtained the services of a specialised lawyer or lawfirm to check if there is a way for us to force them to release the name or let us register those domains. Possibly there is a legal aspect, contract matter, unfair competition clause or whatever that can be applied to this rather unpleasant situation.

Microsoft almost got brought down to their knees some years back for unfair competition (not sharing code, forcing pc makers into deals, not allowing competitors products to run on windows etc) and although i know its a different situation i merely suggest that American law often protects the innocent against the bullies. I can not believe that if this was taken all the way up the courts that they would keep getting away with it.

 

[JMJ]

There are several groups but with all of the money being made by the registries themselves they can afford teams of staff lawyers. The reason the registrars are getting away with it is a loophole in their contracts. I would have to do some digging to refer you to the actual hole but it has to do with their TOS and them being allowed to do as they wish with the name after expiry. This is also why they are allowed to auction off names. ICANN isn't very keen on contracts either. They seem to just let the registry create their own and approve it.

As far as the registrars tasting traffic the registries have decided this is fair play since the registrars themselves are using a seperate entity to do so in most cases. The same with warehousing in alot aswell. They are holding the names under another company owned by their umbrella.

 

[dr00t]

It shouldn't matter. They can spend millions on this case, they would still lose.

Registries are dirty business.

 

[jimberan]

I have read the contract through and i see where the loophole is. It states that the registrat needs to give the domain holder a second warning but it doesnt state after how long this final notice has to be. So I guess in theory they could hold on to the name claiming that they havent yet come around yet to issue the final notice to the (former) domain holder.

 

[verbster]

The dark side is a major force in domain names as evidenced and exposed to the light in the EU fiasco. It's interesting how some (but certainly not all) registry and pseudo-registry folks are exploiting this relatively new market to their advantage...sort of like they're sort of impervious to fair business practices or the growing discontent of consumers.

Sadly enough, so much available money has apparently birthed a few well organized groups and entreprenuers that can afford to manipulate the system to their favor. It doesn't take much to go from organized groups to collusion to monopoly to...well, courts and trouble in Dodge. Of course this is just my opinion that could be totally out to lunch...if that's the case, let's all have pie.

 

[Jo]

The dark side is a major force in domain names as evidenced and exposed to the light in the EU fiasco. It's interesting how some (but certainly not all) registry and pseudo-registry folks are exploiting this relatively new market to their advantage...sort of like they're sort of impervious to fair business practices or the growing discontent of consumers.

Sadly enough, so much available money has apparently birthed a few well organized groups and entreprenuers that can afford to manipulate the system to their favor. It doesn't take much to go from organized groups to collusion to monopoly to...well, courts and trouble in Dodge. Of course this is just my opinion that could be totally out to lunch...if that's the case, let's all have pie.

Hmmm exploiting...one way is how the registrars are using the expired names auctions to line their pockets with gold. Oh yes I do believe that is so. And I do believe this will change in the future as will the rest of the industry...they might as well hoard now because they won't be able to later.

LOL at your pie comment

EDIT: oh and one more thing...those registrars need to kiss our asses...we (as in domainers) are the ones making them all their money