.tv Having your .tv realization moment...

[snoop]

A little story:

I remember when I was in my teens, in the early nineties, I was a huge Amiga fan. I used to buy all the magazines (probably spent $50 a month), oodled at the machines in the shops, think about buying every add on out there and would recommend the machine to friends. I was a fanatic, a one eyed supporter, loyal.

Around 1992-1993 I decided it was time to upgrade from my Amiga 500, a great machine but I wanted something better. If I remember rightly I was going to spent something like $1500 on a new Amiga 1200, it had a 20mb hard drive, I think was about 15mhz and 2 gb of ram. The machine wasn’t cheap and addons were somewhat limited and pricey. I was getting very close to buying one and living that dream was about to head to the shop. I was flicking through the computer section of the local newspaper. At that time you could get a 25mghz 486sx with 4mb of ram and a 80mb hard drive for about the same price.

That is when I had my realization moment.

“I’m getting less than half the machine for the same price”
“Wtf am I doing?”

Because I am a fan of something I’d buy a machine that most sane people would consider outdated and overpriced? Is that rational?

That was when I decided my misplaced sense of loyalty was costing me money and it was time to ditch that loyalty. The Amiga isn’t my best friend, my brother or an employer who has helped me out, it is freaking piece of machinery!

I headed out to the local shop and bought a PC, I never regretted it though to this day I still check out some of the Amiga sites online.

So the question is, how much is your loyalty to .tv costing your hip pocket? Are you making bad financial decision for emotional reasons? Do you see yourself as an unpaid .tv ambassador?

Reg fees at least double, poor performing tld, after 10 years it never quite turned out as expected….hmm is this the Amiga of the domain world?

 

[Len]

Dot TV could have been a contender, but at the end of the day you can't polish a turd.

Not true!!!........http://www.videosift.com/video/Mythbusters-Turd-Polishing-Full-Clip

 

[gr8trfoo]

...

 

[MillersCrossing]

Edit

 

[eyedomainous]

* - My interview with Quinn and Richard were for the promotion of our site and nothing more. Quinn was gracious enough to invite us to the launch party and give me and my camera crew VIP access.

As someone who was there independently, and as a member of Kevin's camera crew, I was, and remain -at some levels, a .TV ambassador. To keep the thread on track, all I'll say is the collision, for lack of a better word, between Demand Media and key members of this .TV forum was my moment of realization that the extra investment in .TV domains may not be a sound business investment.

It wasn't so much about the 'extra' money, because I thought the potential returns would more than cover that. It was the unprofessionalism, to put it politely, exhibited by key members of this forum -towards Demand Media --and personally against RR and Quinn, that convinced me .TV -as an extension-network would not stand... united; so it will fall, and is falling... divided.

I won't get into how TV networks are critical to the success of individual TV stations. And I know the Me.TV platform had issues. But you gotta admit, Richard was right, and did what he said he would do. Demand Media is now the single biggest producer and monetizer of internet video and content, but instead of putting that content on me.tv channels and blogs, and sharing the rev, he puts it on YouTube and his other sites. Funny how the guy he brought in to monetize me.tv content came up with a formula that works.

Tell me again how much Demand Media sucks and how much better off you are without them on your side. At least give them credit for cutting the .TV reg cost in half. One thing he said to me that stuck, in regards to some folks on this forum; "...it's weird, kinda like I dare you to be my friend!."

 

[Jeff]

Reg fees at least double, poor performing tld, after 10 years it never quite turned out as expected….hmm is this the Amiga of the domain world?

:hi:

It most definitely didn't turn out as some had hoped - or expected - and it may be your Amiga, or even my 8-track or Atari depending on analogies ... but, to me, the bottom line realization - and I have owned a few of these lowly .TV's in the past - is that it is, at the end of the day, the ccTLD of the teeny isle of Tuvalu, IMHO.
The ultimate goal, and its partnership with the weeny island country, is simply to MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE from ordinary folks and their registrations (including excessively "premium" domains) ... and this has nothing to do with advancing an interactive or "video" type platform, IMHO.

The obvious goal of GREED was my personal realization moment! :yell: :imho:
Best regards,
Jeff

 

[MillersCrossing]

To keep the thread on track, all I'll say is the collision, for lack of a better word, between Demand Media and key members of this .TV forum was my moment of realization that the extra investment in .TV domains may not be a sound business investment.

It wasn't so much about the 'extra' money, because I thought the potential returns would more than cover that. It was the unprofessionalism, to put it politely, exhibited by key members of this forum -towards Demand Media --and personally against RR and Quinn, that convinced me .TV -as an extension-network would not stand... united; so it will fall, and is falling... divided.

If the viability of the .tv extension depends on all members of a subdomain forum getting along with, or at least not verbally insulting members of DM, then how strong of an extension is .tv.

Imagine if people dont like the way .com is handled - the extra money ICANN is charging for .com regges, imagine if people verbally attacked anyone linked to .com or .net or .org - does that mean the extension is not worth investing in? Or under threat?

Do you think .me will be under threat if a few members of the .me sub forum verbally attack the .me registry?

I think not.

 

[snoop]

Would you even attempt to say that owners of Harley Davidsons are not ambassadors of the bike? And that their buying of the bike, or the $400 HD leather jackets are all buying decisions based on emotion rather than rational decision making when the jackets cost $100 next door but without the HL logo on it?

Ambassadors do not have to be paid thats for sure but it can help.

Would definately say they are unpaid ambassadors.

Back to Allthings.TV. Both Kevin and I had numerous telephone conversations with Quinn Daly to sponsor Allthings.Tv as we were getting a huge amount of traffic once we started getting some big time interviews for the blog.

After alot of yesses, came alot of stalling, followed by a lot of excuses, but bottom line we did not get the sponsorship. It was then that I decided that I was no longer an ambassador.

We were doing more work than Demand Media were doing to market .tv, and they saw no value in sponsoring the blog - makes no sense.....

I think this is a good example of "misguided loyalty". You think you have a two way business realionship with the company, in reality their interest is to get as much money out of you as possible, it is client-supplier.

I remember during the dotcom boom (1999) there was a company giving away domain names to people, they had a contract with Melbourneit who they paid for the names. They issued a press release and both companies waffled on about how great the deal was.

After that was announced they ask MelbourneIT if they would like to invest in the company, this was done in a very public manner as it was in all the local business news here, MelbourneIt's response was along the lines of "Why would we invest in a startup with no obvious business model?......". The comment was 100% understandable, but very blunt, one of those "Welcome to the casino, if you run out of money we'll have security eject you" moments.

 

[DnEbook]

is there any point to this thread , other than to put down .tv ............again

we all get it , you dont like .tv , some do , get over it and move on to your 'happy place'

 

[snoop]

If the viability of the .tv extension depends on all members of a subdomain forum getting along with, or at least not verbally insulting members of DM, then how strong of an extension is .tv.

Imagine if people dont like the way .com is handled - the extra money ICANN is charging for .com regges, imagine if people verbally attacked anyone linked to .com or .net or .org - does that mean the extension is not worth investing in? Or under threat?

Do you think .me will be under threat if a few members of the .me sub forum verbally attack the .me registry?

I think not.

Agree. Personally I think .tv is *very viable*, and has been for a long time. It just isn't viable for most of the people who buy them from the supplier (who is already trying to charge retail rates) and then hoping to resell them to some else.

 

[MrRhee]

I agree huge amount of traffic is subjective. I should have clarified that I was referring to the .tv community and those interested in .tv. Within the .tv community, i think we were getting pretty good traffic. Thanks for clarifying.

You may not have got a yes from Quinn, I DID. After a while and nothing happened, I phoned again and this time she said she just needs to get it checked off with the powers that be. And from then on I felt i was getting the run around. I am not sure how you are able to be so difinitive that she never said yes, when you were not on that phone call I had with her???......

I never said I was familiar with everything DM did for the marketing at the time, nor are you or anyone else. PLEASE DONT MISQUOTE ME. I said (I felt like) we were doing more. If one of the primary target markets for .tv were domainers who were interested in investing in and developing of .tv domains, not hearing about anything DM were doing for .tv is enough to suggest that they were not doing too much of anything at all.

In fact to this day, I still dont know what they did for marketing?? Maybe someone can fill me in....but I have no idea. Watch.Tv of Verisign I have heard about more or less as soon as it went public, cause its pretty easy to hear about the marketing of an area in which you have an interest. - yet nothing in the three years since DM took over did I hear anything other than the NEGATIVE remarks that came from the totally ridiculous premium pricing that DM had hiked up by 100 to 1000% ++

She was gracious enough to get you a VIP pass. WOW!! Who was doing who a favor?? IMHO - u were doing her the favor cause she was looking for favorable & FREE press release. The fact that you thought that her giving you a press pass amounts to anything more than free publicity sounds like you felt overwhelmed at the "GENEROSITY" of it all...

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------



I think just about every single failed domainer comes to that conclusion - that its domaining rather than domainers who have failed miserably...

I actually also find this chat on alalthings.tv to be rather revealing: there is lots I didn't realise about Kevin and his good "friend" Ammadammus and I have a new hater (my dear friend Joel Williams) who thank god will move his pump and dump attempts to fresh new pastures on their forum too!! Do these guys have a clue that their chat is available for all to see - I have been reading it for quite a while now - very amusing stuff - here's to days asslicking...

[08:02] Kevin No idea.
[08:02] Kevin Its a little pricey but not for all
[08:03] Kevin I may need to go get ready
[08:03] Kevin I will try to login in a few hours with my air card
[21:36] Ammudamus Are you around?
[07:06] Kevin checking in
[07:32] Ammudamus you there?
[07:33] Ammudamus did you have a chance to read the posts on MMO
[07:39] Kevin not yet
[07:49] Ammudamus definitely check it out when you get a chance
[07:49] Ammudamus how is everything going?
[07:49] Ammudamus your name got mentioned on namepros.
[07:50] Ammudamus by james -- former partner --
[07:51] Kevin I am stepping out to run a few errands. Sent a PM here and on MMO and responded to a few threads there.
[07:51] Ammudamus ok
[07:51] Ammudamus you are a busy man
[07:52] Ammudamus i have this sense
[07:52] Ammudamus that you and I are going to be working together for a long time --- gut instinct.
[07:54] Kevin I just found the post in which James mentioned me. It is funny how he views that past because I don't recall that his run for embassador was stopped by the "most insane re-pricing of .tv premiums ". In fact, if I recall, he was pretty darn close at
[07:54] Kevin getting some position with Demand Media
[07:54] Kevin When that didn't go through, things began to fall apart
[07:55] Kevin His opinion of dot tv didn't change then either.
[07:55] Kevin But its interesting to see that he is back in action on namepros. More people means more entertainment!
[08:12] Kevin u there?
[11:10] Kevin this is classic, "The New Married Couple of Dot TV"
[12:12] Ammudamus The register link above doesnt work.
[12:51] Kevin should now
[06:19] Kevin checking inthis morning
[07:47] Ammudamus yep i am here
[06:29] Kevin in

you love to name drop so much, so here goes:

James Barclay AKA MillersCrossing AKA SpiderSpider....

why do you even mention my name in your posts as your "hater" or "dear friend"... as I am not either, and frankly never was. Don't paint a target on yourself like you are a martyr or so important that everyone's life/business/investment revolves around you. Stop being paranoid: no one is out to get you... your name is not being whispered in back rooms... people do not fear you or hate you... I don't hate you, I don't even really know you. Besides, you just got re-instated here at NamePros, why are you so determined to attack people?


re: Pump & Dump accusations

Huh? LOL.

You and "redbat" have accused me of pump & dump in the TV space, which is completely false and actually completely stupid of you to say because it is counter-productive to my business model. I'm buying more .TV domains, premiums, drops, regs, etc... while others are exiting the .TV TLD, if not the domain industry itself. Would I pump up domain prices if I am trying to acquire as much "real estate" as possible? Wouldn't that only cost me more in the long run? Perhaps you're confused with the names we dropped to focus on other names/investments. Guess what? Everyone drops domains. We put our money elsewhere for a little while, waited for the market to become more attractive for buying (which it has become) and re-invested into more names (and re-acquired some of our own drops), and in my opinion much better domains that suit our needs. So please stop making idiotic, vitriolic & false accusations.

You should focus on your own business instead of others, always a smart thing to do. You have done everything in your power... in so many threads, even those outside of the .TV section, to flame people, troll-bait, instigate, etc. You carry so much baggage and bitterness, it is becoming pitiful. You turn on people so quickly. When it comes down to domaining, .TV, even history itself: If you wish to see things one way, while others so it another way... then so be it. I've asked you nicely to leave me alone and don't reference me in your posts because you are wasting my time and make it seem like we had some falling out. We spoke on the phone and it ended there. I wish you no ill-will, so please move on to other people. All you're doing is polluting another thread. So James Barclay, you can continue to keep putting people down, putting words in people's mouths and trying to re-write history. I'm going to keep moving forward, and partnering with as many like-minded professionals as I can. You can spread all your lies and BS, it hasn't made a difference. I am invested heavily in domain acquisition for development purposes, and yes, .TV does fit into our model very well. We like .TV, you hate it... big deal. You got out of .TV, why does it bother you that others are staying in, either holding or increasing their assets.?

.

 

[eyedomainous]

With all due respect, James, your mixing things up. To stay onpoint the question would be:

If ICANN, or the .me registry, approached the largest .com, or .me, domain organization(s) and asked for their participation in a new networking project -involving a dedicated .com or .me channel and the members told them to shove it, in a pretty unprofessional manner; Did that make the extension(s), or individual domains of group members, more attractive or better investments... considering they had no plan B and the registry's plan actually worked?

There is no question that video content from Demand Media, the .TV registry, is now the number content contributer to a .COM (YouTube). How does this improve the business viability, branding and value of .TV? They tried to create a .TV network for this content, but they were soundly rebuffed. Well, they had a plan B.

Also, its the history of TV, and TV networks, prior to internet, that separates it from .me or .com and all other extensions. This distinction sells the extension and is often cited by .TV owners as to why they made a good investment. Comparing .com to print media etc..

IMO, what RR / Demand Media attempted to do was emulate the Ted Turner / CNN networking model. I was in the cable industry when Ted Turner wanted to launch CNN (coming out of a successful super station, WTBS; ... like Richard was riding on his successful "super station" reputation of MySpace).

Ted approached the largest cable owners group to sell his CNN network idea... which needed channel distribution & participation, in exchange for a cut of the ad revenue -down the road; Richard approached the group with the largest concentration of .TV domain owners with essentially the same offer. One group co-operated, and we have CNN (carried worldwide by a bunch of independent cable channel operators). And one group did not cooperate... and did so by verbally ripping the man, his plan and channel property a new one.

.TV will be a distinctive domain when it becomes a distinctive TV network... offering something that distinguishes it from other extensions. Otherwise, its just an extension thats talking the talk without walking the walk. And there is little value in that... as people don't buy TV stations for the logo, they buy them for the network.

But let's focus on the past only to the extent that lessons can be learned. We have another opportunity to get our collective TV domainer act together before the full-on coming of The Cloud.

 

[MillersCrossing]

Edit

 

[snoop]

We have another opportunity to get our collective TV domainer act together before the full-on coming of The Cloud.

Domaining is really about going with the flow, piggybacking on what is successful, not creating anything of itself. Domainers will never have their "collective TV domainer act together" because in reality very few want to develop anything, and those that do have insignifcant budgets to have an effect on the extension.

 

[MillersCrossing]

But let's focus on the past only to the extent that lessons can be learned. We have another opportunity to get our collective TV domainer act together before the full-on coming of The Cloud.

ED - I have many reasons not to like the way DM does business, but it does not affect me personally - so its not an issue really.

I agree lessons can be learned. I still like the .TV extension, I just simply think it is on life support at the moment from a DOMAINER point of view. From a development point of view, I think it is as healthy as it has ever been and I only see it continuing.

If there is anything I can do to help, you can count on me.

 

[MrRhee]

Joel Williams,

I name drop your name, because I have heard so much about you and the way you network with people.

Most of them think you are on crack.

I disagree. I think you have a sharp mind and are to alll intesnse and purposes a con artist of rather low grade quality.

I will not repeat the rumors - because they are just that: rumors.

However there are alot of them. And all those rumors confirmed themselves through your bizarre networking phonecalls to buy premium names of me for $300 in return for you investing the names in stealth mode. That was the one and only conversation we had.

Probably another 5 attempted conversations took place.

You call me, I asnwer, you say hold on, I say ok, you say - call me back in five minutes, I say ok. I call back. No answer. I leave a message. No return call.

Out of no where three weeks later you call again. Read above as to how the conversation went x 4.

BTW - I am not REDBAT. But i have total respect for him. He calls it as he sees it, much like I do.

One of the differences between us - I tell you what I think of your pump and dump scheming to your face - you go on other forums where you have a much more receptive audiemce to your nonsese.

So yes JOEL WILLIAMS, I had left this discussion as MELLOWMASHER had requested, (twice) but you have now continued your tirade on this forum and another chatroom.

I have spoken with REDBAT and we have both concluded that you are a shill and a conman, and are pretty much self deluding yourself and the people who are gulliable enough to fall for your garbage.

Apparently, that was the reason you were thrown out of a VERY PRIVATE forum.

SO - LETS CALL IT QUITS - YOU HAVE HAD YOUR SAY - I HAVE HAD MINE - I leave it up to everyone to decide. You said you would put me on ignore. Obviously yet another untruth.

Try and keep to it this time as I will give you my word that I will never talk about your dealings again on a public forum. Frankly, you have bored me to tears with all the drama

Are you an idiot? You, James Barclay have openly choose to defame me in a libelous manner.

You are calling me a con man and have no clue of what you speak. You accuse me of pump and dump, and all your bullshit lies. Yet, I am forming partnerships right now with people who read your posts and wonder why you are filled with so much hatred, misery. We don't laugh at you, we feel sorry for you. But you crossed the line. I am happy that I have avoided aligning myself with you at all costs. But you keep trying to antagonize me because you are a petty troll. You are a loose cannon and have the ability to quickly turn on those who are closest to you. You appear to be bitter over some misconception of who you think I am. Additionally, I have never been thrown out of any private forum. The only private forum I am part of, and still part of is Ricks. One of the original members and continue to be so.

I won't take your libel lightly. You may enjoy spreading your lies, creating fake drama where there is none, but you are only exposing how very vulnerable you truly are. You are very vulnerable and think that you are free to be a keyboard commando at say anything you want without repurcussion. Not so. At first, I pitied you, so I chose not to let this escalate, but that was then, this is now.

I actively do business on this board and within this industry. You have defamed me openly and have constantly tried to tarnish me & my business. You, James Barclay, are your own worst enemy. You've crossed the line James. That's all I will say to you going forward.

.

 

[MillersCrossing]

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[gr8trfoo]

Ted approached the largest cable owners group to sell his CNN network idea... which needed channel distribution & participation, in exchange for a cut of the ad revenue -down the road; Richard approached the group with the largest concentration of .TV domain owners with essentially the same offer. One group co-operated, and we have CNN (carried worldwide by a bunch of independent cable channel operators). And one group did not cooperate... and did so by verbally ripping the man, his plan and channel property a new one.

.TV will be a distinctive domain when it becomes a distinctive TV network... offering something that distinguishes it from other extensions. Otherwise, its just an extension thats talking the talk without walking the walk. And there is little value in that... as people don't buy TV stations for the logo, they buy them for the network.

I dont think there is any similarity at all between what TT accomplished and what RR tried to do.

Correct me if Im wrong but wasnt the novel thing Turner did was ask the cable operators to pay a fee per local subscriber for carrying CNN? Basically he was asking for a cut of what the local user was paying them. And the precedent that set remains largely in place today. Licensing fees that cable operators pay to non-broadcast commercial and premium programmers must run into the billions. As far as splittng ad revenues I belive this sometimes happens in the form of making some portion of the ad slots available to the operator. Its my understanding that few cable networks actually do this and that many smaller operators dont use them at all even when they do since they are the ones who have to sell this time.

In any case what RR was asking a bunch of domain owners and resellers to do was purchase .tv names thru him and then use those names to create sites that ultimately resolved to ChannelMe. If it was such a great idea then why did he need us? Couldnt he just as easily invested his own money and bought the same names himself? Nope, not only did he want others to buy .tv domains but we also would have had to spend our own resources, time and effort to create attractive sites using his content and all for the promise of a relative pittence of possible revenue while he walked off with the lions share and possible another billion dollar public offering.

Gee, now who wouldnt be thrilled at a deal like that?

 

[Jeff]

C'mon, folks ... let's take the personal type conversations to direct PM's please! :talk:

Thanks much,
Jeff

 

[MillersCrossing]

C'mon, folks ... let's take the personal type conversations to direct PM's please! :talk:Thanks much,Jeff

Actually Jeff, the conversation can stop altogether. Joel Williams has indicated indirectly that he will sue me. I think that ends the conversation.

Back to the issue at hand. Fin makes an important point and is one of the issues i have with DM business practices.

Another is the hype he created with Me.TV, only to leave those who invested good names with his network in shambles.

Another is the pittance he pays videographers to produce content. Sure its up to the videographers who can always say no thank you, but in this recession, they can't afford to say no to work which i believe Rosenblatt is banking on.

Totally legal, but what a great way to become content king.

 

[eyedomainous]

Domaining is really about going with the flow, piggybacking on what is successful, not creating anything of itself. Domainers will never have their "collective TV domainer act together" because in reality very few want to develop anything, and those that do have insignifcant budgets to have an effect on the extension.

All solid points. No argument with any of them.

I am saying we need to expand on the conventional defintion of a "Domainer" to "get our act together" and develop something of value. And, I think it can be done with the domains we already own, so a significant buget would, though nice to have, is not required.

The 'power' comes from networking TV domains together, creating our own ad network, and leveraging videos 'in the cloud' to fill a need. Like software as a service (SAAS), this would be TV as a service.

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

ED - I have many reasons not to like the way DM does business, but it does not affect me personally - so its not an issue really.

I agree lessons can be learned. I still like the .TV extension, I just simply think it is on life support at the moment from a DOMAINER point of view. From a development point of view, I think it is as healthy as it has ever been and I only see it continuing.

If there is anything I can do to help, you can count on me.

Thanks, James, and yes lets NOT revisit differences over issues relating to DM or, heaven forbid, Me.tv