.tv Geo Developments

[discovernow]

Are there any Geo's that have been developed in .tv that are making money that anybody knows of? Could be state, city, country, US, international etc.

Thanks, Jim

 

[jeffoverman]

not many here in usa market.

ask uk market and any where outside of the usa market and you will see the fun profitable owners speak up.

nebraska.tv i would assume is
boston.tv? but then i noticed they are in beta and new page.

good question to ask and see what "worldwide geo owners say"

 

[localexperts]

Boston.tv jumped the shark when they announced a global geo network called citylife.tv based on two geos Boston.TV and Columbus.TV plus a bunch of alt geos. They have good traction in Boston, hopefully they have wised up and will stick with their core market.

Hamptonroads.tv was making money, but the executive behind that site was let go. Not sure what has happened in the past 6 months. While the site made money, I don't believe there was much profit in their model due to lack of scale.

 

[discovernow]

I know this being a .tv thread but after talking to Michael Castillo at DomainFest and his site; http://www.PalmSprings.com makes about $450,000 a year and look how simple and basic it is. Simple and basic can be better and this is a prime example.

 

[localexperts]

Most of our sites are very simple. The more fancy I make the site, the less revenue we bring in. Our revenue is north of PalmSprings.com. So that is a second data point.

So I have fancy sites that I show people for PR, but make very little money.

I have sites that are basic, unsexy that make money.

The key thing with PalmSprings.com, they have 30,000-40,000 uniques a month min. That is the key to success. Without traffic, geo won't work.

 

[Steven]

How does a site like palmsprings.com make $450,000 a year?
I'm assuming that a site like Toronto.com then makes millions a year.

Let's say that the name was something else like Palmspringslocalcityguide.com
Would it still make that much with a simple site?

I'm assuming that aside from local advertisers, the money is made through affiliate programs such as Commission Junction, pepperjamnetwork leads/pay per action?

 

[localexperts]

Once again, it comes down to traffic - not the domain name or the site layout (although the layout can influence SEO). A site like Baltimore.com, without a lot of traffic makes less than MyrtleBeach.com or Charleston.com.

The Associated Cities tied to tourist destinations tend to make money that the properties not tied to tourist destinations.

The size of your sales team also makes a difference

How does a site like palmsprings.com make $450,000 a year?

SEO
Good domain as a brand
A sales team located in that market or that travels to that market.

One sales person (who is worth a darn) can bring in $150-$250K in revenue a year.

 

[Steven]

Once again, it comes down to traffic - not the domain name. A site like Baltimore.com, without a lot of traffic makes less than MyrtleBeach.com or Charleston.com

True.

But a fancy geo site with more info/updates will produce more return visitors (locals)? Also, word of mouth from the locals (return visitors) will produce more traffic.

If I was making $450,000 a year with a generic geo .com, I would hire a programmer, designer, etc and create a perfect geo site to produce more revenue.

 

[localexperts]

If I was making $450,000 a year with a generic geo .com, I would hire a programmer, designer, etc and create a perfect geo site to produce more revenue.

Throwing people at the problem is not always the answer - see Richmond.com as an example. Throwing sales at the problem could be an answer, provided the sales people are competent.

But a fancy geo site with more info/updates will produce more return visitors (locals)? Also, word of mouth from the locals (return visitors) will produce more traffic.

"Could" not "Will". That is why the 2001 landscape was littered with DOT BOMBS. Too many CEOs assuming, will when the answer was could

How would I do it, maintain a ratio between sales and non-sales. If the sales person can produce, 2X his salary then you can scale the business. Eventually, you need to produce a profit, so that ratio is fine for early stage. I would also outsource and use subcontractors vs full time employees for many skills.

a perfect geo site to produce more revenue.

WHat is a perfect geo site. I don't believe ANY of the Associated Cities properties are perfect geo sites. If they were perfect, their traffic would exceed the newspaper in their market.

 

[Steven]

True. Thank you for the info George
I'm still learning about how geos work and the business aspect of running a geo.

 

[Ctack]

insightful comments localexperts..

 

[localexperts]

I'm assuming that aside from local advertisers, the money is made through affiliate programs such as Commission Junction, pepperjamnetwork leads/pay per action?

Most hotels rely on agents (travel and online companies) to generate their business. It is tough to penetrate them.

Remember most Associated Cities sites were launched before the advent of Hotels.com, Expedia, etc. In those days, Hotels did more direct advertising than today when they get most of their bookings thru the large travel sites.

I have 150,000+ eyeballs and we have a very tough time selling to hotels. The only reason we are able to have 200 hotel advertisers, because we have 150,000+ eyeballs.

Become a travel agent and take the agent commission, might be a better way to go than to try and sell to hotels a $1,000 year ad. If you were an agent, you would have every hotel in town as your advertiser since you would be paid a commission for every booking.

One other comment, the hotel properties that rely on direct advertising agencies - There are several agencies which specialize in hotels. These agencies have 100s of hotel properties as clients. Unless you have a large amount of traffic and are a national player, it is tough to get an audience with these agencies.

We have a relationship with two of the major agencies. Another one blew me off.

 

[mckennaronnie]

Most hotels rely on agents (travel and online companies) to generate their business. It is tough to penetrate them.

Remember most Associated Cities sites were launched before the advent of Hotels.com, Expedia, etc. In those days, Hotels did more direct advertising than today when they get most of their bookings thru the large travel sites.

I have 150,000+ eyeballs and we have a very tough time selling to hotels. The only reason we are able to have 200 hotel advertisers, because we have 150,000+ eyeballs.

Become a travel agent and take the agent commission, might be a better way to go than to try and sell to hotels a $1,000 year ad. If you were an agent, you would have every hotel in town as your advertiser since you would be paid a commission for every booking.

George do you not find that small,family run hotels are more interested in looking at alternative Advertising options though?

Personally when doing some pre launch sales calls for a Geo we were able to get many family run Hotels & Guesthouses interested in banner Ad's & Directory listing but large hotels wouldnt even consider as they already have their Advertising arranged.

 

[localexperts]

I think family run hotels (those that are underserved by ad agencies) are a possibility. BedandBreakfast.com has done an excellent job aggegating local inns.

Our best advertisers are advertisers where the owner makes the marketing decisions.

Ronnie, that is why LocalExperts.com only targets smaller companies. You nailed my entire advertiser strategy to a tee.

Going after big companies is a receipe for the poorhouse.

 

[frankiethepet]

Russland.tv is a big german site... part of a network, dont know how much revenue...

 

[mckennaronnie]

I think family run hotels (those that are underserved by ad agencies) are a possibility. BedandBreakfast.com has done an excellent job aggegating local inns.

Our best advertisers are advertisers where the owner makes the marketing decisions.

Ronnie, that is why LocalExperts.com only targets smaller companies. You nailed my entire advertiser strategy to a tee.

Going after big companies is a receipe for the poorhouse.

Our best advertisers are advertisers where the owner makes the marketing decisions.

Thats what i found, the small companies where you can talk to the man in charge direct are so much easier to deal with & it saves time as you get an answer direct without a lot of calls/Emails in an attempt to talk to the decision makers in the large chains.

 

[localexperts]

It is so crazy with the chain hotels. You have a chain hotel in Washington, DC. We send them an email for a person planning a wedding in Washington, DC with a wedding budget of $100,000. This person is looking for a venue.

The catering manager won't spend $2 to get the name/number/email, but they will renew their $3,000/month ad on theKnot without thinking about it.

And we phone screened the bride to make sure the lead was real and legit!

 

[mckennaronnie]

It is so crazy with the chain hotels. You have a chain hotel in Washington, DC. We send them an email for a person planning a wedding in Washington, DC with a wedding budget of $100,000. This person is looking for a venue.

The catering manager won't spend $2 to get the name/number/email, but they will renew their $3,000/month ad on theKnot without thinking about it.

I have the same issue with my other .tv site, i can get 9,000 unique visitors per month (over a yr, very targetted traffic) to see their Ad but they would rather pay 10x the price for a one of Ad in a Trade Magazine.

Some of the decisions advertisers make just baffle me, so much waste involved.

 

[localexperts]

Here is the typical marketing savy of a US Small Business Owner. I get to see the responses to our leads. I see 100s of these every day.

Consumer writes
"I'm interested in your services on 5/15, please call me at (703) 542-XXXX between 4PM and 6PM.

Business Owner writes back:

"I'm available on 5/15. Please visit my website at http://www.XXX.com and if you are interested, please call me at (800) 888-XXXX."

Now, does that person really think they are going to get that business. The person asked for a call, and the response they got back - visit my website and call me.

BTW, I called a couple of the 800 numbers to conduct a random surgey. 70% of the 800 numbers went to voicemail.

Geo owners, just remember this when you sell to small business. You are not dealing with Stanford MBAs. Most local pros are excellent at their trade, scaird at marketing their business.

Once we had a photographer who booked $20,000 in weddings from us and he only spent $200 for leads. He cancelled because he only booked 1 out of every 3 leads we sent him and it "hurt his feeling" because he books 9 out of every 10 leads that comes from his website. He was proud of his booking rate and we hurt his feelings because our leads didn't convert at the same rate as his web site leads.

 

[Steven]

When you go to CJ.com and apply for a hotel affiliate program through it such as "hilton" or "westin", the hotels will review your site before approving.
When they do, then you get to see 100s if not 1000s of different banners and affiliate links of a single hotel provider (most likely including the hotels in your local area).
I know it's not +$1,000 per month in ad revenue, but the leads generated (if your site has a good flowing traffic) may earn you a substantial amount of money (% of the sale) though.

...provided that the site can bring in good # of travelers and locals