Escrow.com is now a waste of time for domainers

[PAKB]

On 4th of january My buyer and i (seller) Reached an agreement for a domain name at 1550$ , Buyer paid on 5th of january , Now escrow.com says me that they do not support payments for Pakistan , why didn't they mention it while i was agreeing to An agreement as they already got My address which belongs to Pakistan ?

Buyer has already paid on 5th of January and asking me to push domain to his account while escrow is still sending me emails to add bank account details from other country than Pakistan, How is this possible ?

@Escrow.com Support You guys Have my address which belongs to Pakistan then why did you waste my buyer and my time?

 

[equity78]

Hi

I think this thread is pretty much like the other
where both Op's blamed or put fault on Escrow.com, because they where from a country that Escrow.com does not support

escrow.com has a list of countries they don't support on their website
so, had either of them read the TOS and list prior to, then maybe we wouldn't always have to debate about Escrow.com versus some other payment platform.

those who use escrow.com will continue to do so and those who don't, will find another means.

the one thing you can read out of both threads though, is that the "buyers" preferred or wanted to use Escrow.com
that brand, that term, that pre-instilled confidence, can't be diluted in a few posts of comparison or some in opposition.

just saying....

imo….

Spot on Don, you have to know if a service is viable in your area.

 

[Rob Monster]

Well I have been lazy in getting an article up on the topic of theft, but I have gathered a lot of info, because I was looking at buying a 3L.com on Sedo but the listing data didn't seem right, seller in Mexico but that was not the registrant host country etc.. So I thought if I pay this $15,000 and then it gets taken down the road by Verisign a registrar or some other entity with the legal rights to do so, am I eating the loss? I started looking at Art and if Sotheby's or Christie's got scammed who ate the loss, they do.

So I emailed Sedo and GoDaddy and both of their replies which I have for the article in detail, basically said Sorry but we are not eating the loss, make sure you do proper due diligence. To me that's garbage, and have spoken to a couple lawyers with the issue of nowhere else can you make a profit (your commission) on stolen goods.

So if I understand @Rob Monster his answer to @bmugford was that if someone somehow pulled off a stolen domain sale on Epik, Epik would eat the loss. That's a big deal in my opinion.

For Epik escrow, the domains almost always come to Epik, precisely because we want to know the domain is free and clear, but also so we can manage due process if there ends up being hair on that dog.

For DNProtect, those DNP customers we will insure will have their domains at Epik or Epik-affiliated registrar for precisely that reason -- some registrars ignore due process and just pull your domains. Not ok.

I don't believe any company in the industry more has folks back right now than Epik. This was a recent topic along related lines:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/have-you-hugged-your-whois-privacy-provider-today.1162503

Long story short, as much as nobody likes to take a hit, we are prepared to take hits.

That is also why I am hands-on, so we reduce our chances of taking hits while we scale the organization and make very smart software that institutionalizes best practices.

Along the way, we can't lose the human side -- let humans manage relationships and let technology and process do almost everything else.

 

[equity78]

For Epik escrow, the domains almost always come to Epik, precisely because we want to know the domain is free and clear, but also so we can manage due process if there ends up being hair on that dog.

For DNProtect, those DNP customers we will insure will have their domains at Epik or Epik-affiliated registrar for precisely that reason -- some registrars ignore due process and just pull your domains. Not ok.

I don't believe any company in the industry more has folks back right now than Epik. This was a recent topic along related lines:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/have-you-hugged-your-whois-privacy-provider-today.1162503

Long story short, as much as nobody likes to take a hit, we are prepared to take hits.

That is also why I am hands-on, so we reduce our chances of taking hits while we scale the organization and make very smart software that institutionalizes best practices.

Along the way, we can't lose the human side -- let humans manage relationships and let technology and process do almost everything else.

Thanks for the reply and of course I don't want to see anyone eat a loss, so is there specific business insurance you have that will pay for it, so that it's not out of your pocket?

 

[Rob Monster]

Thanks for the reply and of course I don't want to see anyone eat a loss, so is there specific business insurance you have that will pay for it, so that it's not out of your pocket?

Errors and Omissions is the main policy we carry in addition to General Liability and Directors and Officers. As part of planning for launch of DNProtect.com we are in conversations with a number of underwriting partners that are equipped for re-insurance and risk transfer for large claims. I expect there will be some operating synergies between Epik escrow and DNProtect once that service is live.

 

[Pazu]

I'm waiting for an escrow.com payment from the Middle East. I would have preferred to use Epik for no fee Escrow and this would have been cheaper for the buyer, but this buyer is very paranoid and wants the domain transferred to their current Godaddy account.

The negotiator's IP address is in Palestine but the company has branches in many adjacent countries. I called escrow.com and explained the situation to them and they never told me there might be a risk of them denying the payment. If this buyer goes to all the trouble of wiring the money and it gets rejected, I'm gonna be pissed! @PAKB

@Rob Monster Is wire the only option with Epik escrow for payments over 5k or are other options available with fee?

UPDATE: I'm emailing Escrow.com asking for a list of all countries from which they do not accept payments. If they reply, I'll post the information here.

 

[tonyk2000]

I have a theory on who the next victim of "get big or go broke" will be but I will keep that to myself.

While there are Epik-related things I'm somewhat concerned about (such as using the term escrow in URLs or legal documents), and this is as it should be (different opinions), cannot agree more on this one... I think I know who are you speaking about. I'd give them a couple more years though... and then - another alpnames. Due to mismanagement

 

[Rob Monster]

I'm waiting for an escrow.com payment from the Middle East. I would have preferred to use Epik for no fee Escrow and this would have been cheaper for the buyer, but this buyer is very paranoid and wants the domain transferred to their current Godaddy account.

The negotiator's IP address is in Palestine but the company has branches in many adjacent countries. I called escrow.com and explained the situation to them and they never told me there might be a risk of them denying the payment. If this buyer goes to all the trouble of wiring the money and it gets rejected, I'm gonna be pissed! @PAKB

@Rob Monster Is wire the only option with Epik for payments over 5k or are other options available with fee?

We have done high value transactions with other methods including:

- credit card
- paypal
- union pay
- crypto
- transferwise
- xoom
- western union

We have options. Figure out what the buyer needs and we work backwards from there.

 

[Pazu]

@Rob Monster That's very cool. Namesilo and Escrow.com will ONLY accept wire transfer for payments over 5k.

 

[equity78]

Errors and Omissions is the main policy we carry in addition to General Liability and Directors and Officers. As part of planning for launch of DNProtect.com we are in conversations with a number of underwriting partners that are equipped for re-insurance and risk transfer for large claims. I expect there will be some operating synergies between Epik escrow and DNProtect once that service is live.

Thanks, DNProtect that's a good name.

 

[Internet.Domains]

We have absorbed the financial loss in the rare cases where we got played by a scammer and were unable to unwind the transaction in time.

We have even done this for self-service marketplace transactions, and even ate the loss on multiple Sedo MLS transactions which turned out to be bogus.

We are smarter now, but the precedent is that we ate it.

Thanks for that! As an entrepreneur that has been in retail and wholesale, "eating it" is often exercised to keep customers happy. By "eating it" you have demonstrated a customer first philosophy. Thank you!

So I emailed Sedo and GoDaddy and both of their replies which I have for the article in detail, basically said Sorry but we are not eating the loss, make sure you do proper due diligence.

Ah. Yes...The good ole' blame it on "due diligence."

For those that are unaware, the term "Due Diligence" in the domain industry is:

an excuse for a company to screw you over.

 

[equity78]

Thanks for that! As an entrepreneur that has been in retail and wholesale, "eating it" is often exercised to keep customers happy. By "eating it" you have demonstrated a customer first philosophy. Thank you!



Ah. Yes...The good ole' blame it on "due diligence."

For those that are unaware, the term "Due Diligence" in the domain industry is:

an excuse for a company to screw you over.

Exactly and I made that point I said to Sedo, I said I am thorough you don't even properly vet all the names on your site, you don't know what's going on 100%, and let me put it this way Sedo if I wanted to move stolen merchandise on your platform (I don't) I would know how to make everything look right and if I can so can 100's of others. My point is I am out money yet you have a buyer secure on your site when I am paying

Buyer protection
Why Trust Sedo with your domain purchase?

Trust is an important factor especially when dealing with virtual products like domains. That is why security is always a top priority at Sedo. During a domain purchase our Buyers are protected. The following benefits are included free of charge for domains purchased through Sedo:

• Personal assistance by our experienced Transfer Specialists
• Transparency throughout the process for both parties
• Transfer and Escrow Service to guarantee a safe transaction
• Refund of the full price in case of a transfer cancellation

 

[Pazu]

Wow, this is more countries not supported by Escrow.com than I expected. Particularly noteworthy mentions include: Russia, Ukraine and Alabama. At least in my case, the countries I have dealt with are not on the list, but for all the domainers located in these countries themselves, I certainly see the need for an alternative.

• Afghanistan
• Alabama, United States
• Algeria
• Angola
• Azerbaijan
• Belarus
• Burundi
• Cambodia
• Central African Republic
• Chad
• Congo
• Congo, The Democratic Republic of the
• Cuba
• Côte d'Ivoire
• Egypt
• Equatorial Guinea
• Eritrea
• Ethiopia
• Guinea
• Guinea-Bissau
• Haiti
• Honduras
• Iran, Islamic Republic of
• Iraq
• Kazakhstan
• Korea, Democratic People's Republic of
• Kyrgyzstan
• Lao People's Democratic Republic
• Lebanon
• Liberia
• Libya
• Moldova
• Myanmar
• Nigeria
• Pakistan
• Panama
• Russian Federation
• Sierra Leone
• Somalia
• South Sudan
• Sudan
• Suriname
• Syrian Arab Republic
• Tajikistan
• Uganda
• Ukraine
• Uzbekistan
• Venezuela
• Yemen
• Zimbabwe

 

[AboGamil]

you can use bank details of Payoneer if you have an account its a good way for you and anyone else have the same problem!

 

[MapleDots]

@MapleDots .. it's because most of us who started domaining within the last couple of years are not domain all-star ballers yet! lol

Seriously though. What you're talking about would involve:

- Taking on 50% risk for no reason
- Going through the pain of setting up a merchant account
- Needing to bother with account receivables

There most certainly are cases where I'm fine not going through Escrow if I can really trust a buyer and the amount isn't too big. But why?

Nope, there is no 50% risk because the signed bill of sale states the second charge is automatic when the client gets possession. I charge it through when the domain leaves my account and if the client disputes it I have a signed bill of sale with the credit card number and authorization for the charge.

I once had a client renege and he disputed the charge but all I did was submit the information to my merchant account (that is all done via an encrypted logon) and within a few days I got my funds back.

Proper documentation and paperwork is the key. I used to run a Mercedes-Benz Dealership and I learned how to draft proper bill of sales and also how to enforce them. I still use the same lawyer I did back then and I have never lost a cent. In the end a contract is a contract and if you don't pay I get my domain back. It is clearly marked and and the client has to agree to legal before goods can change hands.

One trick is to put in the legal that protects the client as well. My bill of sale states if I don not meet my obligations the client gets their money back. That makes them feel at ease and builds a layer of trust when you ask them to sign a bill of sale.

 

[xynames]

Escrow.com didn’t work for you OP is all. Works great for me with many transactions including domain holding sales. Works great for many others too.

Title of this thread is sensationalist and misleading.

 

[xynames]

As far as mapledots he’s talking about disputes. If someone claimed an unauthorized transaction on a card not present transaction mapledots would lose the chargeback. There is virtually no recourse for the merchant for a card not present fraud claim.

 

[Escrow.com Support]

Hello PAKB,

We have responded to your concern via [email protected] and we have also replied to your private message. We are keeping an eye on your transaction and we will give you an update if there is anything needed on your end to proceed with the transaction.

To avoid confusion as well, let us continue this correspondence through the support ticket that you've previously sent us.

 

[Recons.Com]

Hello PAKB,

We have responded to your concern via [email protected] and we have also replied to your private message. We are keeping an eye on your transaction and we will give you an update if there is anything needed on your end to proceed with the transaction.

To avoid confusion as well, let us continue this correspondence through the support ticket that you've previously sent us.

This is the matter of public interest. If you are not serving a country, why did you allow for the transaction with that country shown to be set up and accept the payment, while denying the payout?

 

[capybara]

Particularly noteworthy mentions include: Russia, Ukraine and Alabama.

You should be surprised with Pakistan and Nigeria as well – these are a top 10 countries by population and pretty significant economies too. Apparently not significant for Escrow.com though.

 

[equity78]

This is the matter of public interest. If you are not serving a country, why did you allow for the transaction with that country shown to be set up and accept the payment, while denying the payout?

Excellent point

 

[equity78]

As far as mapledots he’s talking about disputes. If someone claimed an unauthorized transaction on a card not present transaction he’d lose the chargeback. There is virtually no recourse for a card not present fraud claim.

Who are you saying would lose @MapleDots ?

 

[Pazu]

@equity78 @Recons.Com In all fairness, I don't see how an escrow company could know until they receive the payment. I guess they could monitor the location of the IP address of the user when they create an account / login and then issue a warning to the buyer and seller. Also, they could ask for the user's country during the account creation process. I assume Escrow.com does this.

But if there's a multinational company or someone with a trusted associate abroad, the buyer/negotiator could get the associate to wire the money from a bank account in a foreign country not on the restricted list. For example, a Pakistani could send money to a friend in India who then sends the payment to Escrow. If I had a buyer in Pakistan, I would like for them to at least have this option.

Even when Escrow received the payment, they would have to be able to check transaction details for country of origin. If someone wired money to my personal checking account, that information wouldn't be readily available, though I could inquire with the bank for specifics. Escrow.com apparently does this or else the OP's transaction wouldn't have been cancelled.

 

[equity78]

@equity78 @Recons.Com In all fairness, I don't see how an escrow company could know until they receive the payment. I guess they could monitor the location of the IP address of the user when they create an account / login and then issue a warning to the buyer and seller. Also, they could ask for the user's country during the account creation process. I assume Escrow.com does this.

But if there's a multinational company or someone with a trusted associate abroad, maybe the buyer/negotiator could get the associate to wire the money from a bank account in a foreign country not on the restricted list. For example, a Pakistani could send money to a friend in India who then sends the payment to Escrow.

Even when Escrow received the payment, they would have to be able to check transaction details for country of origin. If someone wired me money, that information wouldn't be readily available, though I could inquire with the bank for specifics.

No my point would be when you open an account. I cannot go to a British based online gambling site and open an account, they need my address and tell me we don't take accounts from U.S. citizens. So I can't open an account there. https://help.betvictor.com/portal/a...5866.77868588.1578474381-583465530.1578474381

 

[Pazu]

Yeah... I agree after some thought that some checks may be missing. Personally, I think it would be nice if a user could create an account and both parties receive an automated warning when the buyer or seller agree to the terms of the transaction, for the reasons I stated above. Escrow.com is a US company and I'd think there are federal laws preventing American companies from accepting payments from certain sanctioned countries, while there are other countries Escrow had so many fraud cases from that they decided to just cut them out of their system. But you're right, how did it get so far as the money to be transferred?

 

[xeroox]

you can use bank details of Payoneer if you have an account its a good way for you and anyone else have the same problem!

Payoneer account won't work, they will reject the bank ( tested )