Epik, We have a problem. Domain removed from account without permission.

[bmugford]

I am sure as many of you are aware I have had issues with Epik in the past, but decided to give them a chance when I saw a domain I wanted on Name Liquidate.

I purchased the domain PianoMoving.com on 7/20. It was transferred into my account then.
This was the only domain in my account.

It was in my WHOIS information.
I updated the nameservers.

When I just checked it is magically no longer in my account.
The nameservers were changed.
I received zero contact about the domain being moved.

I have all the receipts -

1.) The purchase/renewal from Epik.
2.) The Paypal charge.
3.) Email of when the domain was moved into my account @ Epik.
4.) Email when the nameservers were updated in early August @ Epik.

I don't see any indication that the domain was removed from my account.
On top of zero communication, there also appears to be nothing under "Outgoing Pushes" or "Task History".

I sent a DM to @Rob Monster about this earlier this morning, but have not received a response yet.

I was just notified I received a refund. I don't want a refund.

I want the domain I won, that was in my account, which I had full control over.
It was removed from my account without permission or even notification.

I do not find this acceptable in any way.

@Epik.com, you have some explaining to do.

Brad

 

[Future Sensors]

@Start You already said that earlier.

 

[bmugford]

I was just notified I received a refund. I don't want a refund.

I want the domain I won, that was in my account, which I had full control over.
It was removed from my account without permission or even notification.

Per the original post.

I started writing it after I received the refund, without any further communication.
It was clear at that point, that was their remedy.

That is (5) strikes to me.

I mean, it doesn't really matter that much. Epik has since had ample chance to remedy the situation, and has not made much effort.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

It was probably also a busy time preparing for the NamesCon conference, and maybe travel too.

Oh, I am sorry that me finding that they removed a domain from my account without authorization, after a month, came at a bad time for them.

I mean, the other option was to notify me when it happened, almost (2) weeks earlier.

Brad

 

[Future Sensors]

As an investor in private companies, the only way to “exit” your investment is for another party to buy your shares. Typically that’s when the company has been sold. Epik has not been acquired, therefore no “liquidity event” yet.

I feel your pain.

 

[Steven McEvoy]

I really hope @jberryhill responds here. A company investor benefiting from shenanigans while said company supports it??

This is really a slap in the face to all of @epik customers.

Brad, please take this to other outlets like LinkedIn so the word spreads.

Correct me if im wrong but in any legal case, you accepted the refund of $500 therefore you have no backbone to fight against Epik on this transaction anymore... ?

 

[Future Sensors]

Correct me if im wrong but in any legal case, you accepted the refund of $500 therefore you have no backbone to fight against Epik on this transaction anymore... ?

Brad didn't accept that refund, or any refund, though.

 

[bmugford]

Correct me if im wrong but in any legal case, you accepted the refund of $500 therefore you have no backbone to fight against Epik on this transaction anymore... ?

There has been no settlement. There was just a stupid "offer", that came with a bunch of insults from @Rob Monster.

Brad

 

[Steven McEvoy]

Brad didn't accept that refund, or any refund, though.

I was just notified I received a refund. I don't want a refund.

Brad

Oh thought he said did?

There has been no settlement. There was just a stupid "offer", that came with a bunch of insults from @Rob Monster.

Brad

I dont think there has to be a settlement, you accepted the stupid offer? therefore they can walk away freely... Thats probably why they sent the offer, so you cannot take legal action towards them.


I am not a lawyer but just somethings that I've read in the news etc..

 

[bmugford]

Oh thought he said did?

I dont think there has to be a settlement, you accepted the stupid offer? therefore they can walk away freely... Thats probably why they sent the offer, so you cannot take legal action towards them.

I am not a lawyer but just somethings that I've seen in the news etc..

I am not sure what you are talking about.

I mean they sent the refund, without my request for one.

It was automatically refunded to my account without my intervention.
I am not accepting anything.

I made it clear in the first post I want the domain back, not a refund.

Brad

 

[Steven McEvoy]

I am not sure what you are talking about.

I mean they sent the refund, without my request for one.

It was automatically refunded to my account without my intervention.
I am not accepting anything.

Brad

oh thats true.. nevermind. disregard.

 

[bmugford]

oh thats true.. nevermind. disregard.

No problem. They just sent an unrequested refund that I did not accept.

Brad

 

[karmaco]

Puzzling factors still remain

1 LTO requires the seller AUTO RENEW any names under LTO. How did that not happen?

2 How does a person not notice an extra 900 plus in their account for a month?

3 There is box to tick in your account if you want your names sent to NameLiquidate upon or before renewal which Braden had to have checked at some point in his settings. Name Liquidate is VOLUNTARY until your personal grace renewal period is over.

4 What employee felt so emboldened to remove a bought and paid for domain from Brad’s account without an immediate refund, immediate apology and immediate explanation?

5 Is there a pattern of favoritism at Epik where their friends get privileges and perks others aren’t granted?

6 Why did RM give an account credit instead of an actual cash compensation to Brad? Fake funny money.

 

[Start]

Per the original post.

I started writing it after I received the refund, without any further communication.
It was clear at that point, that was their remedy.

That is (5) strikes to me.

I mean, it doesn't really matter that much. Epik has since had ample chance to remedy the situation, and has not made much effort.

Brad

Okay, when you wrote "I was just notified I received a refund." I thought you meant it was like "just now". But I understand now you meant just as in quantity, like "just that".

I still think in general, people should wait at least 12 hours for a company response though (or less if you already got a response), before going public about a complaint.

Epik has since had ample chance to remedy the situation, and has not made much effort.

Yeah, but part of my point was that by going public too early (imo), it sort of escalated the situation. And objectively, this thread has been "weaponized" in some posts. So going public too early lessened the chance of the other party (Epik in this case) wanting to do much remedying.

 

[bmugford]

Okay, when you wrote "I was just notified I received a refund." I thought you meant it was like "just now". But I understand now you meant just as in quantity, like "just that".

I still think in general, people should wait at least 12 hours for a company response though (or less if you already got a response), before going public about a complaint.

So your argument is I went public a couple hours too early?
That does not make much difference.

I created the thread only after Epik sent me a refund with no other communication.
They were clearly aware of the situation at that point.

I also don't necessarily even agree this should be handled behind the scenes period.
I am all for transparency. This involves very serious ownership and other issues.

Though, I likely would have tried to handle it privately if Epik was more straightforward, at any point up until I started the thread - when it was transferred, when they didn't notify me, when they didn't give me an explanation, when they gave me an unrequested refund with no other communication at that time.

Yeah, but part of my point was that by going public too early (imo), it sort of escalated the situation. And objectively, this thread has been "weaponized" in some posts. So going public too early lessened the chance of the other party (Epik in this case) wanting to do much remedying.

I can't control the course of the thread. Honestly, @Rob Monster and Epik are the ones who let it get out of hand with their lack of quality contributions.

They could still apologize for their clear mistake and do the right thing now to resolve this.

Brad

 

[Future Sensors]

Puzzling factors still remain

Yeah. One thing is clear, though. To sum it up very briefly on the basis of what Rob Monster has said: there has been a departure from the usual technical procedures that were in place at Epik, by manually arranging an 'exotic' deal for Braden. This can not be called a technical error - it was clearly human intervention that caused all this.

 

[bmugford]

it was clearly human intervention that caused all this.

I agree. Outside someone at Epik, who would have had access to magically make the domain disappear?

Whatever happened, the domain had to have been moved by someone at Epik, who at that point also apparently made the decision not to notify me or provide any explanation, or a refund.

Brad

 

[Start]

@Braden Pollock reached out to me and we had a discussion about his sale.
After talking to him, I am satisfied when it comes to his role in the sale.

It doesn't really change much though as it has really been known for a while that either Epik or the current registrant apparently failed to renew it, then clawed it back a month later.

This is quite a complex situation, and I look forward to ICANN looking into it.

Brad

I have a payment plan happening at Epik right now, and I just looked, and I do see the domain in my account, and I can renew it (although I can't change other settings).

And I had seen this page a while back when reading how it works:
https://www.epik.com/support/epik-lease-rental-purchase-plans-guide/

The middle of the page says:

"Who pays the renewal fee?
The seller always pays the renewal fee, as he/she’s the official owner of the domain asset."


Rob mentioned that this sale was done a bit differently though, so maybe that was different here too. But the default is that it's up to the owner/seller to renew it.


Also, I think people should remember the end user / original buyer here. Think about if you paid some/most of your $12,000 payment for a domain, but then you're told that it was lost due someone else's renewal error. No matter what else happens, I think it's clear that the fairest outcome is for the domain to still go to that buyer.

This would be a bigger pickle if Brad had sold the domain onward, or if he had started development himself. But it didn't actually happen.


In addition, I think when thousands of products (domains, in this case) are going through a system each day, it's inevitable that there are going to be some mistakes... whether it's domains or manufactured items.

To reduce the mistakes involves higher operational costs for a company, which they pass on to consumers. Like with web hosting, 100% uptime costs a lot more than 99.9% uptime.

DomainBanana mentioned a similar experience at Dynadot. And I've seen it at SnapNames (although not taking weeks).

But I prefer the occasional mistake versus higher costs. Sometimes banks even deposit money into the wrong account, but as far as I know, the banks are able to take it back.

Besides the renewal issue, Epik's mistake here was in communication, but I think that wouldn't have changed the overall outcome.

 

[bmugford]

Also, I think people should remember the end user / original buyer here. Think about if you spent $12,000 on a domain, but then you're told that it was lost due someone else's renewal error. No matter what else happens, I think it's clear that the fairest outcome is for the domain to still go to that buyer.

This would be a bigger pickle if Brad had sold the domain onward, or if he had started development himself. But it didn't actually happen.

Well, it seems like Epik deviated from standard procedures on this transaction.
How that happened I would expect ICANN to research in reference to my complaint.

Whoever didn't renew the domain is responsible for what happened and should burden that responsibility.

First of all no one knows what plans or negotiations I had regarding this domain.
I could have turned down a $25K offer, I could have had development plans.

That is not really relevant IMO.

Do you know how much trouble I would have been in if I sold this domain?

In addition, I think when thousands of products (domains, in this case) are going through a system each day, it's inevitable that there are going to be some mistakes... whether it's domains or manufactured items.

Can anyone name even (1) example of this same situation happening? I know people who collectively own hundreds of thousand of domains, and not (1) of them could come up with a similar situation to this.

Brad

 

[Start]

Can anyone name even (1) example of this same situation happening? I know people who collectively own hundreds of thousand of domains, and not (1) of them could come up with a similar situation to this.

Brad

I had a related issue happen with GoDaddy, within the past couple of years. I strangely got a refund for a closeout domain I had bought almost a year earlier. But I don't remember if the domain was actually in my account or not.

I spent a few minutes a bit earlier today trying to find it in emails, but it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

I just figure "mistakes will happen". Of course, in my case, it was less than $20 involved, but it was still strange.

 

[bmugford]

I had a related issue happen with GoDaddy, within the past couple of years. I strangely got a refund for a closeout domain I had bought almost a year earlier. But I don't remember if the domain was actually in my account or not.

I spent a few minutes a bit earlier today trying to find it in emails, but it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

I just figure "mistakes will happen". Of course, in my case, it was less than $20 involved, but it was still strange.

I own thousand of domains at GoDaddy. I have purchased who knows how many over the years there and never once had a domain removed from my account.

Having a domain renewed before it is assigned to your account, and having it forcefully removed from your account without permission, a month later, are two very different things.

Especially when the registrar itself is likely responsible for the renewal.

Brad