End User Agreement - Who has one?

[MapleDots]

So I have been contacted about one of my domains and its is a pretty decent domain and after some haggling I got a 5k asking price. Looking at the domain again I cannot help feeling there is something going on and the buyer is not the end user. I have a feeling that if I sell the domain I will see it in use and curse myself for not holding out for more.

I read this all the time and remember reading a topic just recently about www.messengerkids.com where the end user ended up being facebook and the domain seller had no idea. Granted he got a decent price but had he known who the end user was going to be I assure you he would have gotten more.

So the question I have is does anyone use an end user agreement?

In other words... I will sell you my domain for 5k if.....

1. You are the end user
2. You have indicated actual end use of the domain to me
3. You will not resell the domain for a period of 1 year
4. etc, etc

Has anyone done that?
Do you have an example of an agreement?
Is it even feasible to try and do this?

What if I give the buyer two choices...

5k with end user agreement

10k without end user agreement

I would just like some opinions and feedback on this one please. Also if you have any personal experience with this.

In the software industry end user agreements are quite common
https://www.google.ca/search?q=end+.....69i57j0l5.5161j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[offthehandle]

To me it sounds like a company paid to grab the domain and he probably has a much bigger budget.

Go with your gut. You have said you don't need cash. Could be someone like marksmen. lol. www . marksmen . com

 

[canswift]

The name seems to be already in use by an Android/IOS app of the same name. Not going to mention it again in this thread... Maybe they're getting bigger or upping their game and want the exact match domain. Good luck (it's a great name).

 

[MapleDots]

I cannot argue with most of the members and their comments but I just want to ask again and get back to the main question.

DOES ANY MEMBER HAVE OR HAS ANYONE EVER USED AN END USER AGREEMENT?

I understand everyone's point but I would like to get back on point for the topic which is the end user agreement and not necessarily whether or not I decide to sell the domain in question.

 

[BaileyUK]

Yes, Sorry for taking that a little bit off-track. I don't think I've ever heard of a end-user agreement for an outright sale, (Apart from the standard transfer and payment) Only for domain lease conditions.

all the best in your endeavours

 

[Brandworthy]

Jazus, is that the name in question pictured @MapleDots ? I just turned the page to see it.

If I was offered $5K for that I'd take the money and run TBH. I cant read anything but the first 5 letters as first word and grapp as the second, and to my mind that's a lot too close to "crap". Personally I cant make much sense of it as a brand, but hey... opinions are like arseholes (everyone's got one).

 

[MapleDots]

Jazus, is that the name in question pictured @MapleDots ? I just turned the page to see it.

If I was offered $5K for that I'd take the money and run TBH. I cant read anything but the first 5 letters as first word and grapp as the second, and to my mind that's a lot too close to "crap". Personally I cant make much sense of it as a brand, but hey... opinions are like arseholes (everyone's got one).

In most cases 5k will grab almost any of my domains but that is only if no inquiries. It really does not matter what we think or don't think about a domain, in the end the decision is based on my google analytics and how many requests I have had for a domain.

You are so correct, very little to no action and then 3 requests in a row. Tells me there is a demand for this one and if (that is a big if) I decide to sell it for 5k then the end user must disclose use. I will not sell it any other way unless it sits for another year and gets no inquiries.

Yes the selling price is determined by who wants it and I will lay down the rules because it is my domain. That part is simple and to the fact.

I have not disclosed a price and I can just say 50K period. I can say I am willing to look at less if an end user is disclosed.

So who is to say I cannot start out at 50k, if the buyer wants it he has to negotiate not the other way around. I can simply say add a few zeros behind your 5k offer.

 

[MapleDots]

Here is a good website that shows how to set up an end user agreement
https://termsfeed.com/blog/examples-user-agreements/

I was hoping there were a couple out there that I could use as a starting point.

 

[sharfab]

I just went on the website you provided. From the way I interpret there definition of User Agreement, It stipulates the agreement is between an owner or provider of a website, mobile app or web-based service. Are you the owner, operator or provider of your domain name website? Are you providing a web-based service along with the sale of your domain name? Or are you just selling the domain name without a website? Below is the website's definition that you linked to your message.

Definition of User Agreement

The term “User Agreement” refers to any agreement that’s put in place between an owner, operator, or provider of a website, mobile app or web-based service that dictates and defines the scope of rights and responsibilities between both parties.

 

[MapleDots]

It's an example and not for our industry, that is why I am asking if anyone has used one or has an example of one.

 

[MapleDots]

From this topic:
https://www.namepros.com/blog/top-t...to-1-000-in-three-weeks.1059723/#post-6520334

Please continue the conversation here:

One small correction there....

There was haggling and the client was the one giving me his final offer at $5000. I had not agreed to this price and wanted to consult the community because I did not feel the client was being honest with me. I had a sense that it was a larger firm pretending to be a small business entity.

I did not feel the domain was necessarily worth more to the average small business but if it was going to be used by a big corporation then I would have insisted on at least five times as much.

So the client claiming he is a small company am I in my right to insist the domain gets used for the purpose of a small company. If I have a suspicion I am being lied to then I have to bring up an agreement because if not I could be leaving about 20k on the table.

This was the main issue I wanted to discuss. We live in a world where we license things all the time and if I were a tech company I would be charging for the number of licenses issued. If you buy my domain for use with ten email addresses and this is what you promise me during negotiations then this should be the case. Later I find out you are running 10,000 emails on the address I just sold for 5k instead of the 25k I should have gotten.

I'm sorry if I have not explained it clearly enough but in my case I think an end user agreement can be a positive thing, especially if you want to by my domain name for a lower price.

Read more here:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/end-user-agreement-who-has-one.1059314/

 

[leftfielder]

I recently did some research about this topic. It was also mentioned that another domain owner used this type of agreement for the sale of their domain name. What I found out was that NO domain owner use a "End User Agreement". There is NO such language used when selling domain names. The correct terminology is "END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT" and that agreement is only used when there is only a LEASE agreement and not selling a domain name. And do not confuse the word "User Agreement " which is what most of us have to agree to when we use a internet-based service or mobile app.
If a domain owner choose to draft up an agreement with stipulations then of course that is his right. But speaking with other domain owners, this is not the norm as a practice for most people who buy and sell domain names and all of them honestly said that if any type of useage agreement have to be signed then they would walk away from that purchase...

Contradicting my post above, it's exactly what we do each time we claim ownership to a name. It just isn't obvious due to ignorance, for example. i Would also assume that we are bound by terms of our registrars. Theoretically, if maple created their own portfolio portal, they could slip it in, but you'd need a better reason to be super extra.

 

[sharfab]

I agree...

 

[MapleDots]

Let me ask you this: would you want sign an end user agreement each time you bought a name from NP or GD, etc? As I said previously, be true to yourself. Don't take this opportunity to switch things up.

I think you know the answer to that but I am talking about an end user masquerading as someone else. I would probably have taken the offer but I think the guy is not being honest with me so therefore he is not getting the domain. Plain and simple.

I have drawn up an agreement, it is in it's first rough draft and I will take the weekend to finish it up. If they contact me again it will be an easy conversation... 5k with agreement and 25k without.

That's the beauty of having my own domaining business, I play it by my rules. He contacted me, I did not solicit him so he plays by my rules or he has to go play somewhere else.

I don't understand any of the "be true to yourself stuff" quite literally I don't want to be ripped off by a big corporation pretending to be a small fry and then getting my domain at a bargain price. An agreement will assure transparency and force them to reveal the end use for my domain.

Actually I am a bit surprised that nobody else does it, I cannot possibly be alone with this.

Let say you own a domain like StarDollars.com and someone calls you up and says they want it for their local business to use as coupon points for their clients. You negotiate based on the fact that you probably won't get more than 10k from a small sized business. After the domain sells you find a national ad campaign for Starbucks promoting their new StarDollars.com website to collect your starnucks points. How ripped off were you, would you have sold it if you were told the truth or would you have asked 100k seeing what the end use was.

I know a lot of you are saying put a value on a domain and be done with it. Well I wish you lots of luck with that and I am sure you will make some money but it sucks knowing you left tens of thousands on the table because someone negotiated under false pretenses. So far the majority of advice has been, just accept it and move on.

Wow... really?

 

[leftfielder]

Yes...really. Your original question was who has one. The answer is one. And that's you. If you don't like our answers, make it a case study (or not) and show us how effective it is. We're not here to sell to each other, we're here to learn something new, every single day!

 

[Nikhil Jain]

So far the majority of advice has been, just accept it and move on.

Wow... really?

Surely you've thought about something and are moving in a direction with a thought process.

If possible do keep us posted with the process. May be we'll get to learn a new picture in negotiation.

 

[MapleDots]

Yes...really. Your original question was who has one. The answer is one. And that's you. If you don't like our answers, make it a case study (or not) and show us how effective it is. We're not here to sell to each other, we're here to learn something new, every single day!

And you are answering for the community as a whole or just from experience?

I appreciate your comments leftfielder but if there is one thing I can say with all certainty is that I am not the only one. There are some super smart domainers on this forum who have probably been in similar situations, I would be surprised if at least a few of them did not have an End User Agreement of some sorts.

It is very common in other businesses, coming from the car business we even had agreements that prohibited clients from selling the cars out of country. You had to sign the agreement to get the car and if the car ended up out of country you owed quite a penalty. Those cars were very much in demand and that is why the client signed the contract. If we felt each client was honest with us then we would not have needed those agreements.

 

[sharfab]

And you are answering for the community as a whole or just from experience?

I appreciate your comments leftfielder but if there is one thing I can say with all certainty is that I am not the only one. There are some super smart domainers on this forum who have probably been in similar situations, I would be surprised if at least a few of them did not have an End User Agreement of some sorts.

It is very common in other businesses, coming from the car business we even had agreements that prohibited clients from selling the cars out of country. You had to sign the agreement to get the car and if the car ended up out of country you owed quite a penalty. Those cars were very much in demand and that is why the client signed the contract. If we felt each client was honest with us then we would not have needed those agreements.

I see that you are still using the word" End User Agreement" and that maybe where you are getting confused. The correct terminology is "END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT ". You are leaving out the word "LICENSE" and that is where your problem lies. As I explained in my previous post that it only applies if you are licensing your domain name. You can cross reference and validate everything I mentioned with a lil research and "Google". Someone not being able to take a car out of the country can only apply if a person is leasing a vehicle because it is not totally paid for. Most times when a person/company takes ownership of what they purchase then they are free to do as they pleased. Just think back at all the tv reports when people brought expensive items from the owners then burned them or crashed them just because they owned them free and clear. Being passionate about your domain is your right, but don't let your passion obscure your business negotiations...

 

[MapleDots]

I see that you are still using the word" End User Agreement" and that maybe where you are getting confused. The correct terminology is "END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT ". You are leaving out the word "LICENSE" and that is where your problem lies. As I explained in my previous post that it only applies if you are licensing your domain name. You can cross reference and validate everything I mentioned with a lil research and "Google". Someone not being able to take a car out of the country can only apply if a person is leasing a vehicle because it is not totally paid for. Most times when a person/company takes ownership of what they purchase then they are free to do as they pleased. Just think back at all the tv reports when people brought expensive items from the owners then burned them or crashed them just because they owned them free and clear. Being passionate about your domain is your right, but don't let your passion obscure your business negotiations...

Nope, it is an End User Agreement - as in how the domain is used. It is not a license to use the domain

My Lawyer will put on the final touches but I am not licensing the domain, I am simply stating how the domain can be used for a period of time. A so called End User Agreement for a period of lets say 1-2 years.

As far as taking a car out of the country that was for purchased vehicles and we signed hundreds of them. I ran a Mercedes-Benz franchise and at that time client were prohibited from selling them out of country by an agreement called a NON EXPORT AGREEMENT. The high end cars were hard to get and people pretending to be end users were buyng them and shipping them to the US. With the higher US dollar that made for a huge profit margin to the seller.

Am am not talking about leases of any kind and I don't need google for that, we did it for almost 10 years until exporting was no longer deemed to be a problem.

 

[MapleDots]

No, it requires one trip to have it looked at by my lawyer. The end user will be given no choice but to sign or he cannot buy the domain, very simple. The agreement can be used numerous times in the future and therefore is something well worth pursuing.

Again you need to realize it has nothing to do with a 5k sale. If I was sure of how the domain were being used that would not be an issue. Since I suspect the client is lying to me it could be the difference between a 5k or a 25k transaction.

Foolish would be leaving money on the table. Having a legal agreement on file should such a situation re-occur is due prudence.

I'm sure we have all seen domains sold where the seller said if he knew it was so and so buying then he would have raised the price. Brandworthy I am happy that you make enough money to call this a fools errand but I assure you that proper contracts and agreements make for good business practices. There are a number of assumptions in your posts and I assure you I will have no regrets if I do not sell the domain. The only regret I will have is if the buyer gets the domain pretending to be someone who he is not.

 

[DomainGist]

So I have been contacted about one of my domains and its is a pretty decent domain and after some haggling I got a 5k asking price. Looking at the domain again I cannot help feeling there is something going on and the buyer is not the end user. I have a feeling that if I sell the domain I will see it in use and curse myself for not holding out for more.

I read this all the time and remember reading a topic just recently about www.messengerkids.com where the end user ended up being facebook and the domain seller had no idea. Granted he got a decent price but had he known who the end user was going to be I assure you he would have gotten more.

So the question I have is does anyone use an end user agreement?

In other words... I will sell you my domain for 5k if.....

1. You are the end user
2. You have indicated actual end use of the domain to me
3. You will not resell the domain for a period of 1 year
4. etc, etc

Has anyone done that?
Do you have an example of an agreement?
Is it even feasible to try and do this?

What if I give the buyer two choices...

5k with end user agreement

10k without end user agreement

I would just like some opinions and feedback on this one please. Also if you have any personal experience with this.

In the software industry end user agreements are quite common
https://www.google.ca/search?q=end+.....69i57j0l5.5161j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Sounds like a silly idea to me to be honest, and a good way to scare away a real end user....

.... because then you are asking 5k + the cost that they will have to pay to get the lawyer they have on retention to read your agreement and rubber stamp it.

And perhaps they've got an alternative in mind which doesn't require all the ball ache of having to check a legal document as if they are purchasing real estate.

And who cares if its an investor who is buying your domain? And who cares if its somebody who has put in lots of man hours finding a buyer for your domain?

If I told you today that I could sell a domain of yours for $6000 but would keep $1000 as my brokerage fee and pass on $5000 to you, that sound like a fair deal to you? It does me....

.... Now what if I told you that I'd give you $5000 for your domain in cash, because I had an end user who wanted it for $7000.... but I'd pay you up front so if the deal fell through ALL of the risk is on me.... sound like a fair deal? It does to me.

Either you are prepared to sell that domain for $5000 or you aren't. K.I.S.S.... keep it simple stupid.

Also, some companies use agents to acquire domains for them and don't want their identities revealed. You are gambling on the very small 1/10000 chance that facebook are the buyers for your domain, just because of a similar sale reported on namepros?

Just decide how much you want for the domain, ask that.... and they either accept or decline. Doesn't matter who the buyer is, if they meet your valuation.

 

[MapleDots]

Great I'm glad to hear your points of view but I am following through with my draft and will keep it on file for when I think its appropriate to use it. I get all the points of the the members who think it cannot or should not be done, however I strongly feel it is appropriate in this case.

I never thought I was a trail blazer with this, I was hoping someone had a similar draft already in use. It will be interesting to see if and when a situation arises where anyone else feels it would be necessary to have a similar agreement.

 

[MapleDots]

Thanks @BaileyUK for the well thought out response.

I have already decided not to sell the domain because I have had 3 anonymous offers to purchase. My gut tells me I should know who I am dealing with in this case. So the whole issue about buyers/sellers regret is off the table. I am going to proceed in drafting up my agreement and see where it goes.

The buyer cannot say no because I have already said that. I have stated clearly I wish to know the end use of the domain before I sell it. So far none of my offers were willing to disclose that and since the highest offer was 5k I shut the negotiations down. I am preparing a document and if another offer comes in I will decide on how to handle it.

If they tell me end user and can provide me with verifiable information then we can negotiate in good faith. If I get a generic email address and vague responses I will present them with the agreement. It still does not matter what they say or do because my decision about the 5k has already been made. I have nothing to lose and am going ahead to see the possibility of making such an agreement.

Now I understand everyone's points but for me it makes sense and I will proceed forward.

I know I have had some passionate nay sayers in response to this topic but that is what makes namePros such a great tool. I can see the communities response and I can take use that information to help form my opinion.

The costs for legal is not an issue because I have a number of contracts for my businesses drafted up by a para legal and they get signed off by my lawyer. All in all its not such an expensive process and since I have a registered business I can write it off as an expense.

Keep the comments coming I will try to respond to each of you but please keep it polite, remember we are all on the same team.

 

[MapleDots]

Assume the decision to draft the agreement has been made....

Can anyone contribute a structured paragraph of what they would like to see

 

[sharfab]

I doubt if any members here would give any better "structured paragraph" about drafting an agreement then the "lawyer " you hired in your previous post. What you are now about to do is start second guessing yourself by still seeking opinions from others when you have already retained legal counsel. Don't continue to further distract yourself and possibly a good sale. Let your lawyer do the job you are paying him to do...

 

[MapleDots]

Something like...

The above mentioned domain

I doubt if any members here would give any better "structured paragraph" about drafting an agreement then the "lawyer " you hired in your previous post. What you are now about to do is start second guessing yourself by still seeking opinions from others when you have already retained legal counsel. Don't continue to further distract yourself and possibly a good sale. Let your lawyer do the job you are paying him to do...

Thank you so much for your response.

I doubt any ordinary lawyer will have the knowledge accumulated in this community. A little feedback and contributions from members is always appreciated.