Don't buy icelandic.tv until the problem solved

Discussion in 'Domain Extensions - ccTLD Discussion' started by kam, Feb 10, 2017.

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  1. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Background story:

    On 9 Feb, I found there is no way for me to renew the domain name icelandic.tv on day40 of the grace period. I opened a support ticket and the staff of Dynadot said the time stamp has passed. They refuse to help me.

    On the same day, I carefully read the term and condition on Dynadot which make me believed that I am entitled to renew or restore my domain within the official renew grace period.
    #############

    Quota from:
    https://www.dynadot.com/community/help/question/renewal-grace-period
    Some expired domains will be sold at auction in the Expired Auctions in our Marketplace. If this is the case with your domain, there will be no redemption period though you will still have your full renewal grace period to renew before the domain is lost entirely.



    Quota from:
    https://www.dynadot.com/community/help/question/expired-auctions
    In rare cases, a domain won at auction will not be added to your account because it was renewed by the original registrant. If this occurs, your account will credited the full amount of the order. Because of the nature of the life-cycle of a domain, we must auction expiring domains at the tail-end of the original registrant's Renewal Grace Period.
    #################

    Dynadot clearly stated that they will wait until the tail-end of the original registrant's Renewal Grace Period, as well as they allow the customer having a full renewal grace period.

    The description "still have your full renewal grace period" . , the word 'full' explicit it will not shorten by any artificial means.

    The words "the tail-end of the original registrant's Renewal Grace Period" clear enough to explicit it's 45 DAY.

    Verisign is the only registry of .tv Domain. According to verisign website, they provide 45 days renew grace period.
    https://www.verisign.com/en_US/chan...ain-registrar/domain-registration/index.xhtml

    -------------------------
    In this review website, it's worth to take a look what Todd said on 8/18/2016
    https://www.yelp.com/biz/dynadot-san-mateo

    Quote from:

    [​IMG]
    Comment from Todd H. of Dynadot
    Business Owner
    8/18/2016 We apologize for any confusion regarding our expired domain auctions. Although we do place expired domains in our auctions, the original registrant is still given the full renewal grace period of 40 days to renew their domain. This renewal grace period is a standard amount of time set by the registry and it cannot be changed by us or any other registrar. We try to ensure that registrants have every opportunity to renew their domain, which is why we start sending out domain renewal notices 60 days before the domain's expiration date and we also offer an auto-renew service at no additional charge. We hope this information helps. Please feel free to contact us directly if you like to further discuss.

    ----------------

    Based on the above finding.

    The CEO of Dynadot has clearly illustrated what's a full renewal grace period means. "It's a standard amount of time set by the registry and it cannot be changed by us or any other registrar."
    In this comment he use 40 day as an example because 40 days is very common for Tld.

    That's what made all of us think Dynadot is one of the best registrars.
    They had a fair policy without depreciate the rights of original domain registrant.
    They provide full renewal grace period.



    So, I opened a support ticket again and told the staff I am entitled to get my domain back.
    I am entitled to renew / restore my domain within that 45 days.

    In the Dynadot website, It 's really clearly stated that if the domain renewed by the original registrant in that full grace period , which is 45 days for .tv domain. The domain will not transfer to the winner of the expired auction buyer.

    However, even I told them I am willing to pay the restore fee of 94.99 to get my domain back. The staff of the Dynadot keep saying that they can't help me in this situation. It has passed the 40 days grace period set by them.

    This is the last e-mail response from Dynadot.
    They are so greedy now and refused to give the domain back to me.



    Any advice is appreciated!

    Thanks!
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

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    I think you are mistaken and to blame this on Dynadot is ridiculous. They clearly state right here (dynadot.com/domain/tv.html) that they give a 40 day grace period. The page you linked to (dynadot.com/community/help/question/renewal-grace-period), clearly indicates that a domain registered on 01/01 would have a grace period until 02/09. Seeing as how your domain was registered on 12/31, 1 day earlier than in the example, it would therefore make sense that its grace period is until 02/08...therefore you missed the grace period.
     
  3. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I understand that Dynadot is now merely provide 40 days for the customer to renewal a .tv domain at the original renewal price. After that Dynadot will charge for a higher price of 94.99 for .tv domain renew / restore.


    I also knew Dynadot stated that they offering a full renewal grace period and they clearly stated that "It's a standard amount of time set by the registry and it cannot be changed by us or any other registrar." It' s 45 days for a .tv domain.



    In this case, there's a conflict between above two policy. There is only three possible outcomes.


    The best company will make some exception and make their customer happy .

    The average company will ask the customer pay for $94.99 to get the domain back.

    The worst company will take the domain away and try to make a profit from depreciate the rights of original domain registrant. They will ignored what they promised and said it's 40 day now.


    What's the choice of Dynadot now? Let's see
     
  4. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

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    You are mistaken, badly. First, where do you see 45 days? Several other registrars also offer 40 days for .TV, so I have no idea how you come up with 45.
    Second, you just don't get it. They can't 'make an exception' to make you happy...BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE ALREADY OWNS THE NAME! They have no choice at this point. To make an 'exception' would mean they would have to steal the domain from the person that now owns it. You seem to lack complete awareness of how things work...and to tarnish Dynadot because of your lack of understanding is terrible.
     
  5. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The source:
    https://www.verisign.com/en_US/chan...ain-registrar/domain-registration/index.xhtml



    For .cc & .tv domain. It's 45 Days grace period. In fact, I had some successful case to transfer my .cc as well as .tv domains out of Godaddy on DAY41 of the grace period.

    I had not mistaken anything.
    ======================

    I am in the domain business since 2006. I still remember how it works!
    I am the original registrant of it. How come get the domain back = steal the domain ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
  6. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

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    Huh? Where does it say the registrant has 45 days? Do you know how to read? The ONLY thing in there that even says 45 days simply says that registrars must delete the name within 45 days to receive credit. It says NOTHING about the registrant. You are, once again, mistaken.
     
  7. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I am sure it's 45 day. You can open a live chat with verisign customer service to confirm about what I said.
    I had the experience of transferring .cc .tv domain after DAY 41. I am sure it can be done within that 45 DAYS period.
     
  8. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

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    You are incorrect. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Even Tuscows and 101 Domains both list 40 days for .TV (tucowsdomains.com/renewal-and-expiration/what-happens-to-domain-names-when-they-expire/) and (101domain.com/tv.htm).
    Are you seriously that dense to believe that Dynadot, Tuscows and 101 are all wrong...but you are right?
     
  9. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    let me explain a little bit in detail.
    At first you need to read this
    https://www.verisign.com/en_US/channel-resources/become-a-registrar/index.xhtml

    In short , Dynadot deposit $$ into verisign , created a account in verisign and providing domain registration service to their customer.

    Everytime Dynadot register a domain through Verisign on behalf of their customer, the $$$ will directly deducted from Dynadot's verisign account.

    Let's take softwares.tv as example.

    The Creation Date: 2007-06-29T08:00:49Z

    On 2007-06-29, Verisign deduct the amount of credit from Dynadot's Verisign account for domain registration.

    ON 2008-06-29 , Verisign deduct the amount of credit from Dynadot's Verisign account for domain renewal.

    At the same time, Verisign giving all registrar including Dynadot a 45 days grace period.
    Within that 45 Days if Dynadot decided to let the domain drop. They will get the credit back.

    That's what's the true meaning of grace period.

    ===================================

    The CEO of Dynadot has clearly illustrated what's a full renewal grace period means. "It's a standard amount of time set by the registry and it cannot be changed by us or any other registrar."

    They said they will provide full renewal grace period to their customer. So it must be 45 days when it's a .tv domain.
     
  10. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

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    Do you just bend things to how you want them? The registrar, NOT the registrant must delete the domain within 45 days to get credited...and pretty much every registrar makes their cutoff for their customer earlier than that to give themselves time to get it deleted...hence the 40 days.
    Second, according to your own quote, he said 'given the full renewal grace period of 40 days'...he lists the number of days right in the freaking message! What more do you want?
     
  11. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

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    Ohh and since you are so into reading, did you read the terms that you agreed to when you registered the domain: 'Unless otherwise specified in this Agreement, the Post-Expiration period will last for forty (40) days or until You pay the renewal fee to Dynadot in the amount specified on our web site. You understand and agree that, if You have not renewed the domain by the thirtieth (30th) day of the Post-Expiration period, Dynadot may put the domain name up for auction in its Marketplace pursuant to the terms set forth in this Agreement. During a Marketplace auction, You may still renew the domain until the end of the Post-Expiration period. If You fail to renew the domain during the Post-Expiration period, regardless of reason or fault, You understand and agree that Dynadot may, in its sole discretion and without any responsibility or liability to You, make a final and irreversible transfer of the domain to another party. '
     
  12. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Let's take
    icelandic.tv as example.

    Creation Date: 2009-12-31T09:00:21Z
    Registry Expiry Date: 2017-12-31T09:00:21Z

    Grace period in registry level: 2017-2-14 09:00


    On 2009-12-31, Verisign deduct the amount of credit from Dynadot's Verisign account for domain registration.

    ON 2009-12-31, Verisign deduct the amount of credit from Dynadot's Verisign account for domain renewal.

    On 2011-2-14, it's the deadline for Dynadot to make a decision whether keep or delete the domain. If the original registrant renewal it..


    ...................................................

    On 2017-2-14, it's the deadline for Dynadot to make a decision whether keep or delete the domain. If the original registrant didn't renewal it. Dynadot's service communiate with Verisign's server via API to notify Verisign regarding DYNADOT do not want to renew it and Dynadot will get the credit back.


    ======================
    However,
    Most of the registrar shorten the grace period to making extra profit from it.

    On 2017-2-9, when the domain owner (me) try to renew icelandic.tv , Dynadot said you failed to renew the domain within our 40 day period. Now we will charge you an extra fee .
    Even worse, They said The domain is now won by other customer and we cannot give the domain back to you.


    I am sure the registrar will very happy when you renew the domain within 41 to 45 day. They do not have to pay for an extra restore fee to verisign while they can keep most of the $$$ in their pocket.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
  13. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

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    I'm not going to keep arguing this with you, you are wrong...but obviously you won't believe what anyone else tells you.
    Do you just bend things to how you want them? The registrar, NOT the registrant must delete the domain within 45 days to get credited...and pretty much every registrar makes their cutoff for their customer earlier than that to give themselves time to get it deleted...hence the 40 days.
    Second, according to your own quote, he said 'given the full renewal grace period of 40 days'...he lists the number of days right in the freaking message! What more do you want?
    Ohh and since you are so into reading, did you read the terms that you agreed to when you registered the domain: 'Unless otherwise specified in this Agreement, the Post-Expiration period will last for forty (40) days or until You pay the renewal fee to Dynadot in the amount specified on our web site. You understand and agree that, if You have not renewed the domain by the thirtieth (30th) day of the Post-Expiration period, Dynadot may put the domain name up for auction in its Marketplace pursuant to the terms set forth in this Agreement. During a Marketplace auction, You may still renew the domain until the end of the Post-Expiration period. If You fail to renew the domain during the Post-Expiration period, regardless of reason or fault, You understand and agree that Dynadot may, in its sole discretion and without any responsibility or liability to You, make a final and irreversible transfer of the domain to another party. '
     
  14. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I understand Dynadot want to make $$$ from the expired auction. But the bottom-line is to do the right this in the right way. Don't be evil.

    Dynadot did say the original registrant is still given the full renewal grace period of XX days to renew their domain. This renewal grace period is a standard amount of time set by the registry and it cannot be changed by us or any other registrar.

    When such a conflict existed..

    There is only three possible outcomes.
    The best company will make some exception and make their customer happy .
    The average company will ask the customer pay for $94.99 to get the domain back.
    The worst company will take the domain away and try to make a profit from depreciate the rights of original domain registrant. They will ignored what they promised and said it's 40 day now.

    ==============
     
  15. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

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    Do you not understand? Someone else owns the domain now!!! They have no way to give it back, because it is someone else's! What do you expect them to do? Steal the domain from the new owner!?!?!?!??!?!
     
  16. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The true grace period is until 2017-2-14, If Dynadot made a mistake and wrongfully transfer my domain away from my account before the true grace period .

    They should correct their mistake immediately.

    =====
    Btw, are you worked for Dynadot? :xf.confused:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
  17. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

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    That is NOT your grace period, that is the grace period between the registry and registrar...you are NOT entitled to whatever grace period you feel like. Did you read the terms of service? You give up your rights to the domain after 40 days. At this point, the domain is owned by someone else! It is not their mistake...it is your mistake! And no, I don't work for them...trust me, if I owned a company and you tried to hurt my business by spreading misinformation like this, I would sue you for libel.
     
  18. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I am qualify as legal executive in Hong Kong. I knew how important is wording.

    How did you interpreted this sentence ? I masked the 40 to XX to avoid confusion!

    " original registrant is still given the full renewal grace period of XX days to renew their domain. This renewal grace period is a standard amount of time set by the registry and it cannot be changed by us or any other registrar. "

    It's the link to the registry
    https://www.verisign.com/en_US/chan...ain-registrar/domain-registration/index.xhtml

    What is your answer, 40 days or 45 days ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
  19. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

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    If you know how important wording is...than read the agreement you signed when you registered the domain. You will see in the agreement what happens after expiration. I'm done arguing with you over this. It is clear as can be in the agreement and on their website what happens. You can continue to debate this with yourself.
     
  20. MasterOfMyDomains

    MasterOfMyDomains Active Member VIP

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    Why did you wait until it was to late?
    People hate that. Bid on an expiring name, win the auction and the owner renews. Tie your money up
    Sorry to hear about your loss
     
  21. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    That involved another complicated story. I don't want to talk about it.



    Let me ask you one question. How did you interpreted this sentence ?

    *I masked the 40 to XX to avoid confusion!

    It's quote from Todd Han


    " original registrant is still given the full renewal grace period of XX days to renew their domain. This renewal grace period is a standard amount of time set by the registry and it cannot be changed by us or any other registrar. "


    It's the link to the registry

    https://www.verisign.com/en_US/chan...ain-registrar/domain-registration/index.xhtml


    The full renewal grace period is apparently refer to 45 days. Right?


    =======

    Quota from:

    https://www.dynadot.com/community/help/question/renewal-grace-period

    Some expired domains will be sold at auction in the Expired Auctions in our Marketplace. If this is the case with your domain, there will be no redemption period though you will still have your full renewal grace period to renew before the domain is lost entirely.




    Quota from:

    https://www.dynadot.com/community/help/question/expired-auctions

    In rare cases, a domain won at auction will not be added to your account because it was renewed by the original registrant. If this occurs, your account will credited the full amount of the order. Because of the nature of the life-cycle of a domain, we must auction expiring domains at the tail-end of the original registrant's Renewal Grace Period.


    =====

    When an expired domain auction has ended. Dynadot will transfer icelandic.tv to the new buyer account until the full grace period has ended, which is refer to 2017-2-14. Dynadot has clearly stated that the original owner has the right to entitled to a full renewal grace period.
    The new buyer will lost the chance to grab the domain if the original registrant take it back before 2017-2-14.


    Now, let's talk about the 40 days grace period, it's a totally different term. it is merely set by Dynadot and let's called it Dynadot's grace period to avoid confusion. it shorten to merely 40 days for a .tv, In case of the original domain owner failed to pay for renewal within Dynadot's grace period. They will charge for an extra fee for renewal.


    In my case, it has passed the Dynadot's grace period but it's still within the full grace period.

    Therefore , if I want to renew my domain, I have to pay for $94.99.


    I don't care to pay $94.99 to renew my icelandic.tv. But the web interface didn't allow me to performed this action. This is the reason I keep asking them to manually restore my domain on my behalf. But they always said they are unable to help me.

    I consulted my co-worker, a solicitor, she said I had a strong case in this circumstance.:xf.grin:


    Kam:xf.smile:
     
  22. JoeE

    JoeE Active Member VIP

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    The answer is really SIMPLE. You @kam are talking about registrar to registry agreements and policies. But you have nothing to do with that, you entered into an contract with Dynadot who explicitly say grace period is 40 days. Maybe they can renew it for you if they want, but they don't have to since the agreement between you and them is 40 days. Maybe they use the 5 extra for their own special purposes, but the bottom line is, YOU have no legal legs to stand on since the 40 days is explicitly stated on their service agreement. Even if the CEO made a mistake in stating the reality of their operations, the actual explicit agreement is what you should go on. Sorry for your loss, but you probably should just move on and invest your time/energy into your other domains/business. Also if the name is very important to you, you probably should set it to auto renew. Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  23. kam

    kam Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I use Dynadot service since 2006. At the time I registered my account I did signed an agreement with them and consent with their term & condition. However, there's no such expired domain auction in Dynadot at that point of time.

    For the registrar like eNom. Everytime they changed their term and condition they will showed a popup and ask the customer to consent. If the customer consent with it the new term and condition become effective.

    I haven't see any of these on Dynadot. :xf.confused:

    -------------




    ============
    https://www.namepros.com/threads/dynadot-steal-your-domains.887181/
    Btw, I just found something similar to my case. what do you think.

     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  24. JoeE

    JoeE Active Member VIP

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    I think you're looking for life lines, but as I said you entered into an agreement with them and their service level agreement that you must agree to states that there is a 40 day grace period. They are free to do whatever they want as long as they honor their agreement with YOU, not with their friends and family and preferred clients etc. is it fair? maybe not but it is legal and the onus is on you to read their agreement and act accordingly.
     
  25. domain hacks

    domain hacks Established Member

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    Do not worry, we wont.
     

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