Domain Appraisal Folder is Losing Value

[silveraden]

I see many nonsense posts like $0, not developed, not .com, etc. people saying these things are either dumb or just compiling number of posts.

Why ask for a developed domain when it is a domain appraisal folder. If is it developed, it is not just a domain anymore, right?

With the above argument, even if you post a newly-registered car.com, a dumb appraiser will still tell you it's $0 because it is not developed.

Majority of comments on appraisal folder are useless and I think the admin should check and consider having some specific rules in there.

Thank you

 

[Eric Lyon]

The thing about domains is that the value is in the eye of the beholder. Every person has a different way they value a domain and in many cases no 2 domainers will agree 100%. When dealing with appraisals from multiple people you have to try not to take them very personal and remember that many of the $0 or reg fee appraisals are coming from people that may not be into that niche or have never researched it.

A true appraisal can take hours of research, which most domainers aren't willing to do for free all day long. This means that the majority of appraisals are done without any research and just going by past experience or personal opinion with no niche knowledge.

It can be healthy to debate and get a variety of different views from people in or out of a niche on a domain. You can probably assume that if you get more unresearched $0 appraisals than you do researched appraisals, that the buying market may also follow that pattern making it just as hard to sell as it was to get a decent appraisal based on lack of knowledge to the niche (if no target selling tactics are used and its just listed for sale somewhere of course).

There's really no viable way to make members tell people what they want to hear (OMG, you have a Million dollar domain, congrats). So we continue in an open opinionated community where each member can express their own views (As educated or uneducated as they may be).

If you can think of ways to get members to take 2 or 3 hours on each appraisal thread to research in depth for a more accurate appraisal, I'm all ears and listening.

Sorry to hear that your experience hasn't been that great in the appraisal forum. As mentioned above, if you have ideas on how to get people to research more, let me know. other than that, we would like to maintain an open community where members can express their opinions in domain discussion topics (Minus any bashing of one another of course).

Eric Lyon

 

[Kenny]

Ok, this argument has been going on for years.
There are a couple of things to keep in mind here, and in my opinion, it's pretty simple.

If the OP in an appraisal thread really wants a valued response, they should do their own due dilligence and post search #'s, previous sales of similar names, and other sources that would explain WHY they reg'd/bought the name in the first place.
This gives the serious appraisers a head start, and if they see any value in researching the name further, they will.
Also, if the OP gives enough info from the start, it is really hard for the dunderheads trying to show off their knowledge with simple "regfee" answers.
You only get back what you put into anything.

Now, from the other side, the OP should always consider the source of an appraisal. Period.
Check their post history to see if someone really knows what they are talking about, or just post padding, or, as in too many cases, are just assclowns trying to make themselves feel good at others expense.
You have to separate the wheat from the chaff.


Peace,
Cyberian

 

[Eric Lyon]

Nice write up. I was actually going to mention this earlier, that developed/revenue-earning names should have a separate section dedicated for appraisals for them (parked/dev'd)

The raw value of the name itself is not really being appraised. Instead, it's development/revenue-generating ability is being appraised.

It's common to see people hand-reg'ing names, then coming a week later, "oh whatever.me made $10 over the past 7 days. How much you think it's worth? Thanks". Question is: Does the name actually have value on it's own? I think some of you might know what I am talking about.

The appraisals come in, based on this information, and gives a better than expected appraisal for a name that has no inherent value.

A week later, that appraised domain is on Auction at NP, doesn't mention the traffic or revenue earning things (because it wasn't true and cannot provide proof=screenshots). New members remember reading the appraisal for the name and now bidding based on that revenue/traffic info. (I've seen it here soo many times-but one can't say anything as they are not breaking the rules.)

Now here's the problem: This brings about abuse of the Appraisal section. Even though rules have not been broken, it provides a loophole for ripping other members off.

A solution would be, if they are want an appraisal based on the revenues they "apparently" receive-be it from parking or dev'd names, then proof should be provided. No hurt in that for the one seeking an appraisal.

I think the appraisal section can have two subsections, the current section can be the 1 section "Appraisals for name value" (or something like that), section 2, "Appraisals for revenue generating domains" (parking, developments).

In section two, they should provide screenshots, otherwise, people can just lie, and open up an auction thread/external sales thread and rip new members off.

If there's no proof of traffic/revenue provided- appraisers can choose whether or not to appraise.

If there is proof of traffic and revenue provided-indication that OP really wants an appraisal and if you appraise it, and he puts it on sale, those who read the appraisal thread know that appraisals received are indeed more accurate. And the appraisers won't have to feel like they were party to someone else's "rip-a-sucker-off" scheme.

So perhaps, those guidelines that you have drafted can be split for say sections "1" and "2"?

Just a suggestion.

I made the following updates today:
1.) Since we already have a Website Review forum that basically covers most your suggestion, I simply changed the title to "Website reviews & Appraisals" and then added the appraisal guide to that forum.

2.) I then changed the Adult website reviews title to: "Adult Domains / Websites Reviews & Appraisals" and also added the appraisal guide to that forum (Adding appraisal to the title should help clear up confusions).

3.) I added a sub-forum link (in appraisals) called "Developed Domain Appraisals" that links to the "Website reviews & appraisals" forum directly.

4.) I then updated the appraisal guide with "Please provide screenshot proof" with the traffic & revenue option.

We'll see if that helps any or not.

Eric Lyon

 

[Sabre]

I don't completely disagree with you that sometimes appraisals can be unhelpful - anyone can look at a domain and throw a $ value against it without any justification. There is, however, a time and a place for a simple "$0 / $reg fee, if you are lucky" and that is when the domain is just so bad that you don't want to waste your time justifying to the OP just how bad the name is. It can also hurt people's feelings and realistically, it's up to them what they do with the domain.

I often disagree with others - and as Eric rightly said, it is all about perception. Some people see value where others do not. A good example of me disagreeing with everyone else in a thread is here. There are people saying the domain is worth mid $xx, others saying its worthless and me saying that I wouldn't even consider an offer in the high $xx range. As Eric says, it's all about perception, industry insight, experience and niche knowledge.

I've spent time doing private appraisals for people and spent 2 hours researching and writing an appraisal before because that particular domain happened to really speak to me. However, you can't expect people to spend more than 5-10 minutes on an appraisal when they have full time jobs and many even see domaining as a hobby rather than a main business. The average domain is, well, average and you are certainly limited to the insight you can give on that particular domain without giving the thread starter the idea that you actually think the domain is good, when it clearly isn't.

Just my 2c

:wave:

 

[Kate]

There are also many requests for domains that cannot be appraised.

For example, if you have a .so, .tk or .asia domain, it's automatically worthless imo (with very few exceptions). Hence the generic, canned and short appraisals.

Then there is the case of domain hacks, in my view they are worthless.
Yes, I know they do sell sometimes but it's more a question of luck than domain quality.
Those who like domain hacks will praise them, those who don't will advise against them.
Opinions are all over the place.

The prospect of a sale is so unpredictable that it makes little sense trying to appraise them.
"$$$$ to the right end user" doesn't help much if that perfect end user doesn't exist, or there is 0.000001% chance.

 

[NPer]

Perhaps a solution to the "problem" of $0 appraisals, would be to create a separate section for newly reg'd names, i.e., reg'd less than 12 months ago-that way, if the member sees a $0, he/she shouldn't be surprised. The likelihood of it being crap is quite high in this case, unless the name was dropped and reg'd-but that could also still be crap.

Many members here complain and cry when their hand-reg name of 1 hour ago get's appraised at $0. That attitude I really dislike, and that's why I'm not very keen on the appraisal section anymore. Why give my time when all you get is whining. They wanna hear, "wow, that name is certainly worth $xxx,xxx to the end-user, and you should have no problem selling it for $xx,xxx to a reseller".
Let's get real, shall we?

I've stopped appraising names because there are plenty of members who ask for appraisals and when you take your time to respond, the member disagrees and throws his/her toys around.

If my time is not appreciated there, I just stay away. And that's what I've been doing recently (there are a few exceptions though).

:wave:

 

[namenut]

I think an appraisal is a lot easier to understand and accept if there is rational' (explanation) behind it. Just saying reg fee or $0 is not enough. You can explain (educate) the OP and perhaps "we" can bring down the number of poor quality names posted for appraisal by educating buyers. Perhaps in time the effect will lighten the appraisal posting and include a higher quality of domains and .... domainers.

Eric, You ROCK!

Cyber, Equity, 3D, Dawg, Default, JFS and others members like your selves are why NPs is NPs. No reason to compromise at appraisals .... we can always be better.

NN

 

[Sabre]

So there is only black and white?

By good opinion I mean, make a research before appraising, giving arguments why you think that's the value and a possible development(not necessary).
In any case by good opinion I would not consider this post http://www.namepros.com/4366722-post69.html

Erandi,

It's worth remembering that people don't always have the time to give a step-by-step breakdown of how they worked out an appraisal.

If you've been in the market long enough, then you tend to have a feel for what a domain is likely to be worth without spending a lengthy period of time researching it.

Of course, people aren't always right and there's always the possibility of an end user that will pay over the odds - but you can't provision for that unless there's a strong likelihood it will happen - or we would all be throwing money at domains willy-nilly.

:wave:

 

[mis_chiff]

When posting ones opinions of someone else's domains
a "this is why I think your domain is crap" comment
should be a mandatory requirement.

How the level of monetary value was reached - again - because everyone
has a different opinion of likes/dislikes - the appraisaers should be held
accountable for their opinions, or don't make any.

Explain why they came up with the amount/value/de-value - instead of a post padding competion of the most $0 responses.

 

[Sabre]

To be perfectly honest, I tend to find that if the OP wants more information regarding an appraisal, he will ask further questions in the thread.

Re: the Nazii thread - I agree with everyones comments. The domain would always be associated with the word 'Nazi', meaning that would hinder its reseller value. As I said before, not everyone has the same ideas about a domain Erandi - if you don't like what someone has said, you can engage in healthy debate with them, there is really no point having arguments that lead to fallings out over a difference of opinions on something that really matters little to either arguing party.

Perhaps a solution to the "problem" of $0 appraisals, would be to create a separate section for newly reg'd names, i.e., reg'd less than 12 months ago-that way, if the member sees a $0, he/she shouldn't be surprised. The likelihood of it being crap is quite high in this case, unless the name was dropped and reg'd-but that could also still be crap.

I actually don't agree with this (sorry 3D!) - it is still possibly to hand reg domains with value - and I do seem them occasionally pop up. The last thing this forum needs is a) a new sub section and b) a sub section that says to new users 'post your domains here for a $0 appraisal'

As Eric has consistently said, the Appraisals forum is one of the most important forums that attracts people to NamePros - so we need to make sure we encourage new appraisals.

Just my 2c of course! :hearts:

:wave:

 

[NPer]

I actually don't agree with this (sorry 3D!) - it is still possibly to hand reg domains with value - and I do seem them occasionally pop up. The last thing this forum needs is a) a new sub section and b) a sub section that says to new users 'post your domains here for a $0 appraisal'

No need to apologize Sabre! But thanks though. :great:

I agree that there are some decent names out there available to reg (although very rare to find).

But the majority of the hand reg names posted in the appraisal section are bad.

I hardly reg names, although I did reg 3 names over July/August period. They were all names which were dropped.

What I find annoying in the appraisal section regarding hand reg names by new members is that an appraisal is asked for, a detailed appraisal is (sometimes) given and then the OP gets angry saying the appraisal is uneducated/the member appraising clearly doesn't know what makes a name valuable, etc. The name-calling is bad. :D.

Many of the guys just want the appraisal to be something which they would like to hear vs. something which is realistic.

Then new members wonder why no one wants to appraise their names. You see stuff like, "Bump. No one out there?" :hehe:

On a different note, but relevant to the topic: is the bumping of appraisal threads over extended periods of time for higher appraisals.

3DMovie.com is an example. The appraisals were very positive at the beginning, but the OP constantly bumped the thread for two months, obviously hoping to hear even higher appraisals. But then people started investigating the price he said he bought it at (which turned out to be not true) and then he got angry calling people names.

The "bumping" of appraisal threads over extended periods allows members enough time to research the name, and when that research is posted, the OP gets angry. I've noticed that bumping for higher appraisals (which could be sometimes out of greed) doesn't turn out as good as the OP intended.

But it is the choice of the OP, and if he/she wants more appraisals, he/she should respect every single one which comes their way.

:wave:

 

[Havela]

After you have been here for a while, you learn who to trust and who not to trust, simple as that. I, for one, always appreciate it when e.g. sdsinc and mugford take the time out to give appraisals.

What annoys me in the appraisals section are all the newbies throwing out wild appraisals as if their lives depended on it. Personally I don't have enough experience to estimate sales figures yet (if ever), but there are people with far less experience than me, and, if I may say so, worse domains, who act as if they have an ocean of experience. Makes for great entertainment, but still... Couple of days ago I saw someone claim that "co.uk" is a worthless extension. What a load of crap. And the typical opening poster, who is even less experienced, might heed the advice.

I previously suggested that there should be a 6-month membership limit for posting in the appraisal section unless a person is the opening poster, and I still think it's a good idea.

 

[SK1990]

Most of the domains in the appraisal section are worthless. Also, I believe you have misunderstood what people mean about development. What they're saying is that the domain itself is worthless; however, if you take the time to develop it you can bring more value to a possible sale. Lastly, appraisals are 100% opinion, if you can't handle criticism then don't ask for appraisals. Adding some requirement forcing members to tell you 20 different reasons the domain is worthless does not change the fact that it is still worthless. Also, this would inevitably decrease forum activity.

This post is not meant to be aggressive or snarky. Just stating my opinion.

 

[dompro]

I see many nonsense posts like $0, not developed, not .com, etc. people saying these things are either dumb or just compiling number of posts.

Why ask for a developed domain when it is a domain appraisal folder. If is it developed, it is not just a domain anymore, right?

With the above argument, even if you post a newly-registered car.com, a dumb appraiser will still tell you it's $0 because it is not developed.

Majority of comments on appraisal folder are useless and I think the admin should check and consider having some specific rules in there.

Thank you

I can only speak for myself
1) Lots of domains posted for appraisal ARE worthless, and may be that why they are posted as people can't sell them and start having doubt about their choice
2) Personally I hate to bring bad news. Thus "reg fee", "if you could develop it", "if it was .com" - are the softer ways to say "it is crap, you should drop it" + may give additional information where the value is (slightly different keyword, .com instead of .org, etc)

So I would blame the quality of domains posted for appraisal, not the appraisers skills

 

[Kate]

• as said above, as a rule, domains posted for appraisals are worth nil as-is
• appraisers are tired of repeating the same points over and over, for so many years so the posts are getting shorter
• buyers should do their homework and research before they even ask for an appraisal, they put the cart before the horse
• appraisers must always justify their opinions why the domain isn't great and worth regfee, or $$ max, but shouldn't the buyer be able to justify why he/she thinks the domain is even worth anything
  If you don't know, we don't know either...

Now I understand that posts like '$0', 'reg fee' do not sound very helpful, basically they are wake-up calls to go back to the drawing board and learn the basics...
Too many domains are being registered with no development plans in mind, and no research whatsoever into the resale opportunities.

 

[Sabre]

To be perfectly honest, I think the main issues here are;

a) certain people feeling that appraisers aren't giving a level of appraisal that they would consider acceptable

- there's been no realistic solution for this for the past 7 years - and it's easy to see why, especially when the appraiser is spending their time and resource to appraise.

b) People who ask for appraisals becoming aggressive towards appraisers

- now, this I think is something that can be rectified. It's 5am and I've just got out of hospital so I can't really think of a solution now - but it seems far easier to influence the person whose domains are being appraised (who is receiving a free service compared to the appraiser who is providing it.

I am not for a second advocating poor appraisals but there's nothing more frustrating for an appraiser than to see their well thought out post blatantly disregarded because it does not tell the domain owner that their domain will be the next big thing.

:wave:

 

[Kenny]

What does page rank have to do with a domain valuation?
What does the quality of the content have to do with a domain valuation?
What does the amount of content have to do with a domain valuation?

The ONLY time this matters is if you're selling a web PROPERTY and the criteria for this is 100% different and you need clear metric of traffic, source, money invested, money that needs investing, ongoing costs/licensing, current future market etc..

Most people buying just a domain will likely delete whatever content you have to create their own... unless they're buying the property as is (rare and specific type of investor) or just a traffic buyer.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

@ dompro,

This is exactly what I was trying to tell you in that other thread when I referenced espn dot com.

Thanks DU.

I am not for a second advocating poor appraisals but there's nothing more frustrating for an appraiser than to see their well thought out post blatantly disregarded because it does not tell the domain owner that their domain will be the next big thing.

@ Sabre,
well thought out post is the objective key here.

You and I have been through this identical thread on more than one occasion, and it all comes down to whether or not certain members who havent really learned enough to know what they are talking about, are making post padding/totally bs calls in appraisal threads.

There is a lot more to it, but it is late and this thread will just go round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round n round .... well, you get the picture.

Lively discussion tho, I'm glad it didnt turn into a total flame-fest. There are two sides to this coin, and each side is adament.

Like I said before, whether it be in Appraisals, Legal, Warnings, or even real life in general, for whatever reason... you have to consider the source.

Peace,
Cy

 

[equity78]

Cyberian is right and this has gone on for a long time. And I will call out management to make rules and then have the mods follow them.

Way back when .tv had its own appraisal section, I had rules for that section.

If you started a thread, you first had to give your appraisal of your own name, why you regged it, how you came up with your domain value.

People appraising could not just say reg fee, they had to give a reason why, without any personal or childish remarks. If they did the post got deleted.

The op could not come back with childish or disrespectful remarks to the people who gave a real appraisal, any name calling or other antics and the thread was deleted.

If Namepros wants to fix this, they can. You set rules for the op and rules for the replies. Don't follow the rules delete the post or the thread.

 

[Kenny]

Apparently, this is what most members are claiming the problem is, so if the majority feel that's the problem, I'll type something up to see if we can try to rectify it a little.

Eric Lyon

---------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------

Optional guide added here: http://www.namepros.com/domain-appraisals/announcement-appraisal-guide-for-better-results.html

Let me know if there's anything left out that should be added.

Eric Lyon

Thats a well thought out guide, Scorp.

I like this part best.

(From the guidlines, bolded by me.)

It's important to remember that when giving an appraisal that you also try to educate the individual asking for an appraisal. The more detailed information you can provide, the more they will learn from the experience. You'll also find that appraisees tend to take an appraisal less personal and wont reply with upset comments as much when they receive a well thought out appraisal.

I'm pretty sure my first post in this forum was in Appraisals, I know 30 of my first 40 were asking for an appraisal.
And let me tell you, they wern't very good names. I had no clue about OVT, or any tools to measure the value of a good DN.

The members that took the time to explain WHY they wern't good names, or at least offered up opinions about where I might start looking for an enduser, they helped me out a lot.
And I thank them, to this day. :great:

For those that were just posting to show off what they didnt know, or just for post count in general, after awhile, even a newbie will eventually figure out who cares about what they sign their name to, and who doesn't.
I remember them, too.

Appraisers, remember back to when you were first posting for domain appraisals, and consider the replies that were acctually helpful, and try to be that guy/girl.

This is a community FULL of outstanding, helpful members, lets all aspire to be one of them.


Peace,
Cyberian

 

[equity78]

Very nice job Eric and yes I think its important that people understand one another where they are coming from.

Perfect example is tonights sales report. The top sale for the week was IndoTogel.com. $33,000 how many 0 value posts would it have got ? I don't speak the language this is rooted in, but I do research so that helped understand this is about online gaming in Asia. My appraisal would be worthless to the Asian based domainer who asked for an appraisal without any info in the post.

 

[Kate]

I don't agree that $0 should be the minimum. Some domains posted for appraisal are major TM violations, accordingly the potential liability in court is up to $100,000
So the minimum should be -$100,000 (+ legal fees)

 

[Sabre]

I wouldn't personally have an issue having a minimum post count to post in an appraisals thread, say 50 posts, but allow anyone (0 posts +) to start a thread.

However, you'd then need to make sure they could also reply to their own thread to ask further questions etc - and if they couldn't, you'd find threads opened of a similar nature across the forum.

Silveraden, can you let us know the person(s) posting '0' comments for different domains on a constant basis? I can't say I've seen anyone do this regularly but then again I don't spend long enough on that section to notice any correlations.

 

[iowadawg]

Someone thinks he is right and all the other appraisers are wrong.

Bit of hubris there.

Why I do not get excited if someone appraises a domain more than I did, or less than I did.

But obviously you do.
Constantly.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Lets try and keep the thread more about suggestions to better the appraisal forum please.

Thanks,

Eric Lyon

 

[DU]

The problem of the crappy posts is not an appraisal problem

Brand Building

An unoriginal post with no attributions followed by what can best be described as mostly nonsense.

At least "this crap domain is worth $0"

3D is the worst appraiser of names. He thinks SoFlo.net is worth more than I would offer for it... jerk. :lol: (it's worth more than I would offer)