Do you support GoDaddy's decision to cancel a domain?

[Internet.Domains]

Do you support Godaddy's recent decision to cancel a domain because of the content exhibited?

Read the News here about the domain:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/neo-nazi-website-daily-stormer-to-lose-domain-name.1035543/

 

[Kate]

I don't think private companies should be forced to host a platform for hate speech. Remember that hate speech is the enabler of hate actions. Even words have consequences. Those sites embolden people with extremist leanings, brainwash them into thinking they are not alone and that their radical views are almost mainstream and acceptable.
Give me a break with your First Amendment rights: freedom goes hand in hand with responsibility. You are responsible for what you write and advocate even online, especially when it can influence deranged individuals.

I run private companies too, if I find out that you use our hosting services for crap I will politely show you the door. This is what GD did. They didn't touch the domain.

All those offensive site owners will create their own registrar for hosting offensive websites

Why not. There are rogue registrars that exist for the sole purpose of spamming.

 

[hookbox]

I think YouTube taking down their channel is a big deal too, while I have no problems with that kind of hate being extinguished, there are a lot of channels on YouTube that espouse hate. So Google needs to get to work and close a lot of channels.

I don't think Google should start acting like the police. I get the whole hate thing but where does it stop and who decides what is acceptable or not? One decision guys opinion or a small group shouldn't have that much power.

 

[Joe Styler]

Godaddy are famous for a shoot first, ask questions approach to registrants and accounts - there has been plenty of discussion and experience of that on here. Just possibly they did not want to lose money or time responding to complaints and media interest. I wonder if a number of hate domains will now transfer out in a hurry?

Actually we have been getting complaints and bad press on having this domain for quite a long time. It is only this week that the domain was told that is must be moved. It was not a split second decision.

 

[Joe Styler]

I find that rather troubling.

If a domain is allowed to exist under Verisign policy, then a registrar should not be able to just arbitrarily cancel a domain on their own whim.

Stopping hosting is one thing, cancelling the domain is another entirely.

Brad

We did not cancel the domain. We told them to find another registrar within 24 hours. The reasoning behind it was that it was inciting violence which is against the law. People do things that are illegal on domain names and we need to step in as our lawyers see fit. For instance we do this with things like child porn. It is one thing to object to the content (which speaking for myself and not as a GoDaddy employee, I strongly do in the strongest terms, with no exceptions or caveats) but it is important to note that this removal was not done for moral reasons or PR reasons but for legal reasons as our legal team saw fit. I'm not a lawyer, I won't pretend to speak for what is legal or illegal but I think it is important to note that our legal team said that the content was deemed illegal and that is the reason it was removed in violation of our terms of service.

 

[carob]

Free speech is free speech even if you don't agree with what's being said.

There is an interesting question coming up here about free speech and domains. Speaking or giving out hand-printed leaflets in the street truly is free, but on the internet you need a platform.

You can carry on publishing on the internet if you lose your domain, you just lose all your links and probably initially recognition while you establish a new domain. Without some kind of hosting you can't continue.

I also wonder about free speech applied narrowly to domains - say your domain makes a statement such as PersonXisacrook.com - should or would that be allowed? Is the domain itself libellous or only when it is used?

The domain we are talking about here was expelled by Godaddy, not cancelled, because of the way it was being used, not because of the words it contains. If Google have now cancelled the domain it will take 30+ days to drop - or is it just disabled?

A LOT of .co.uk domains used for fraud were just cancelled outright by the authorities in one big operation a few years ago.

 

[Joe Styler]

There is an interesting question coming up here about free speech and domains. Speaking or giving out hand-printed leaflets in the street truly is free, but on the internet you need a platform.

You can carry on publishing on the internet if you lose your domain, you just lose all your links and probably initially recognition while you establish a new domain. Without some kind of hosting you can't continue.

I also wonder about free speech applied narrowly to domains - say your domain makes a statement such as PersonXisacrook.com - should or would that be allowed? Is the domain itself libellous or only when it is used?

The domain we are talking about here was expelled by Godaddy, not cancelled, because of the way it was being used, not because of the words it contains. If Google have now cancelled the domain it will take 30+ days to drop - or is it just disabled?

A LOT of .co.uk domains used for fraud were just cancelled outright by the authorities in one big operation a few years ago.

Which makes sense then as the UK was cancelling domains due to a legal concern. As I stated we allowed the content to continue for a long time with many complaints so this is not a speech issue, we allowed that, it was a legal reason we gave for requiring them to leave us.

 

[carob]

https://www.nominet.uk/8000-uk-domains-suspended-law-enforcement-industry-collaborate-keep-uk-safe/

Nominet has today published its update on .UK domains suspended for criminal activity over the 12 months to October 2016. Nominet suspends domains following notification from the police or other law enforcement agencies that the domain is being used for criminal activity.

The criminality report shows that the number of .UK domains suspended between 1 November 2015 and 31 October 2016 has more than doubled year on year to 8,049, which represents around 0.08% of the more than 10 million .UK domains currently registered.

Russell Haworth, Nominet’s CEO says: “We want to make .UK a difficult space for criminals to operate in and the number of suspensions shows how the wider law enforcement community and the domain name industry are able to use an established process to take action, together.”

Older story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-online-raid-Scotland-Yards-e-crime-unit.html

 

[mr-x]

So what happens if a domain is allowed to exist under Versign policy, but zero registrars are willing to allow it to be registered there?

The content is one thing, the domain itself exists independently.

It is easy to defend this decision when the content is morally repugnant to most people, but once again it is a subjective decision. What happens when this same standard starts being applied to other content people don't like?

Brad

Domain wasn't canceled, it was transferd to Google. Domain Status: clientHold https://www.icann.org/epp#clientHold. Google also canceled their hosting.

 

[Internet.Domains]

We did not cancel the domain. We told them to find another registrar within 24 hours. The reasoning behind it was that it was inciting violence which is against the law. People do things that are illegal on domain names and we need to step in as our lawyers see fit. For instance we do this with things like child porn. It is one thing to object to the content (which speaking for myself and not as a GoDaddy employee, I strongly do in the strongest terms, with no exceptions or caveats) but it is important to note that this removal was not done for moral reasons or PR reasons but for legal reasons as our legal team saw fit. I'm not a lawyer, I won't pretend to speak for what is legal or illegal but I think it is important to note that our legal team said that the content was deemed illegal and that is the reason it was removed in violation of our terms of service.

Thanks for joining the conversation Joe!..........According to the Southern Poverty Law Center there are currently 917 hate groups in the United States alone.
Many of those groups are currently delivering content deemed to incite criminal behavior on GoDaddy domains.....What does GoDaddy intend to do with those groups/domains?

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

 

[mr-x]

Southern Poverty Law Center...

the "gold standard"

 

[Joe Styler]

Thanks for joining the conversation Joe!..........According to the Southern Poverty Law Center there are currently 917 hate groups in the United States alone.
Many of those groups are currently delivering content deemed to incite criminal behavior on GoDaddy domains.....What does GoDaddy intend to do with those groups/domains?

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

I'd defer to our legal team to make those decisions on when activity is deemed illegal. That is why they are paid the big bucks

 

[Doughmange]

I applaud GoDaddy for taking the steps to squash hate speech.

Free speech is not the same as hate speech. I don't care who wants to wrestle with me over the legal qualifications of speech, if speech calls for the marginalization of a specific people and/or incites violence then get rid of it.

The country has gone too far taking basic liberties to extremes. The right to bear arms should not mean you have a right to own a modern gatling gun that can shoot 25 bullets per second.

It took men 20 seconds to load a musket. Thats a max of 1, poorly calibrated, round to be fired every 20 seconds at best. Granted the right to bear arms can be related to the might of ones military, but in that respect what is a 25/bps gatling gun going to do when faced with a javelin missile system and a handful of tanks.

Free speech should not include never hate speech based on race, creed, or color.

 

[Internet.Domains]

I'd defer to our legal team to make those decisions on when activity is deemed illegal. That is why they are paid the big bucks

Of course....However "they see fit"....

 

[equity78]

I don't think private companies should be forced to host a platform for hate speech. Remember that hate speech is the enabler of hate actions. Even words have consequences. Those sites embolden people with extremist leanings, brainwash them into thinking they are not alone and that their radical views are almost mainstream and acceptable.
Give me a break with your First Amendment rights: freedom goes hand in hand with responsibility. You are responsible for what you write and advocate even online, especially when it can influence deranged individuals.

I run private companies too, if I find out that you use our hosting services for crap I will politely show you the door. This is what GD did. They didn't touch the domain.

Why not. There are rogue registrars that exist for the sole purpose of spamming.

Kate I get your point, but it's not just cut and dry as things move from the despicable to just the "I don't like that" category. First off let me be crystal clear I am against all extremist groups, of every kind, I have never been on the website GoDaddy turned away and wouldn't even link to it.

I think people are worried about things moving slowly astray, it always starts slowly, get rid of all the content that every, decent civil human being believes is abhorrent, everyone on the same page. Then it moves to well this guy has a vlog that he thinks men are superior to women when it comes to coding, ( I don't believe that) now he is not espousing or inciting violence, that's a misguided assumption on his part, imo but I do think he has the right to believe that, he does not have the right to discriminate against a woman if he is in the position where he can hire and fire. But if it's just his personal belief, I believe more people will see him as a fool and ignore him. But if a bunch of people at Google say, "Hey I hate this idiot, he thinks men are superior to women when it comes to coding, let's close his YouTube channel!" That's a problem, I know, I know it could never happen. Or could it?

We are slowly becoming a society that believes in Freedom of speech with an * needed, I believe in a person who believes what I believe having the right to Freedom of speech. Confirmation bias makes people feel warm and cozy, before we would at least hear someone and then say what an asshole, if we vehemently disagreed. Now there are large numbers who believe that speech must be stifled if it's against what they believe, again I am not talking about this instance, I hope everyone here is against Nazis. The concern for many is will this instance start the Penguin sliding off the slippery slope?

If you want people to give you a break with Freedom of speech well you are entitled to that belief, but there might be a time where someone says that with regards to something you want the freedom to express. The only people in favor of Nazis are Nazis, the rest of the world is vehemently opposed. But there are topics where many different ideologies could come into play and a domino effect takes place for shutting down freedom of speech. Just my opinion.

 

[equity78]

I'd defer to our legal team to make those decisions on when activity is deemed illegal. That is why they are paid the big bucks

So how would one get the GoDaddy official opinion on 917 hate groups using GoDaddy? Thank you

 

[Kate]

There is a lot of censorship in the US too, more than you think. The registry has even revoked .us domains because they contained one of the so-called 7 dirty words. In America, showing nudity or breast on TV is taboo while other countries are more relaxed. On the other hand, hate groups are allowed to prosper and the US is a haven for hate speech. You know, it's like that hysterical war on terror yet guns are killing 30K people every year in America, much more than all terrorists attacks combined, and nothing gets done. It's not very rational and a strange sense of priorities.

This is not discrimination here. If you refuse to serve people because they are black, women, gay or transgendered it is discrimination, when you discriminate people for what they are. They got the boot not for what they are but for what they do, out of their own free will. And as a private company you have no duty to support their repulsive aims, even through simple logistics.

 

[Internet.Domains]

I'd defer to our legal team to make those decisions on when activity is deemed illegal. That is why they are paid the big bucks

Joe regardless of GD's decisions I really appreciate you coming on here and addressing this volatile subject. It's very much appreciated!...THANK YOU!

 

[hookbox]

They are back up under a russian domain name. It looks like no US registrar wanted them.

Dailystormer.ru

https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/16/16156302/daily-stormer-neo-nazi-website-russian-hosting

 

[Ategy]

I also wonder about free speech applied narrowly to domains - say your domain makes a statement such as PersonXisacrook.com - should or would that be allowed? Is the domain itself libellous or only when it is used?

I started a discussion on this not too long ago after I found and reported "GasTheJews.com" and "RapeKids.com".. unfortunately it got moved to "Niche domains" where the conversation died off ... I'm going to assume this discussion will also be relagated to "Niche domains" for the exact same reason ... too bad as I think these are both very interesting and important topics. Take a look at it here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/blatantly-racist-domains.1020858/

I asked GoDaddy in the thread, and via email the email exchange in question for some information on rules/policies .. but didn't get anything .. and then never heard from them again on the matter.

 

[Ategy]

As for whether or not I agree with GoDaddy talling them to leave their platform .. I can't say 100% without actually have seen the content of the site .. but based on what has reported to have been there, yes, most certainly. While GoDaddy does have a responsibility to be tolerant in matters regarding free speech, it is within their right (and possibly actually even their responsibility) to curtail services to individuals or groups using their platform to promote certain types of hate, and I'd think all types of violence.

If you'll look at the thread I linked to in the post above, you'll see that "freedom of speech" in no way means people can say anything they want, anywhere they want. Fortunately/unfortunately often it comes down to the specific words used.

That being said .. I do which things were a little clearer .. and I'd think also that with the countless millions of our money going to ICANN, that there should be better and clearer standards on these matters ... as well as better ways to report offenders .. and most importantly .. the hiring of expert judges to form a panel where decisions can be made quickly.

For the most part I'm in favour of free speech .. and I am aware of the slippery slope argument .. but to say that there should be no rules at is not the answer. The answer for this sort of thing is better clarity and guidelines .. and most importantly that those guidelines be based on actual laws as opposed to opinions.

For those of you interested in the subject I HIGHLY recommend reading the following short but very concise book on Free Speech ...
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/free-speech-a-very-short-introduction-9780199232352

 

[Ategy]

Somewhat but not entirely related, KKK.info and WhiteSupremacy.info have auctions closing later today at GoDaddy:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/kkk-info-and-whitesupremacy-info-on-auction-at-godaddy.1036067/

Also note that I have indeed reported the domains and made my suggestion directly to GoDaddy.

Let me start off by stating that I'm not saying either way whether the following domains should or should not exist .. just stating the news and fact that the following 3 domains are on auction finishing later today at GoDaddy:

KKK.info (Currently 29 bids @ $255)
WhiteSupremacy.info (Currently no bids)
WhitePride.info (Currently no bids)

While these domains might not automatically be associated with hate groups (they *could* be bought by people wanting to shine light and education on the subject), they are expiring auctions and so could technically belong to GoDaddy if the original owner does not renew. I think it might be appropriate that instead of GoDaddy trying to profit and make money on these domains, that they hold them back from auction and hand them over to groups fighting hate crimes and racism.

@Joe Styler & @Paul Nicks (and any other GD employees on NamePros):

Just a suggestion ... a very strong one!


Related discussions:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/blatantly-racist-domains.1020858/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/do-you-support-godaddys-decision-to-cancel-a-domain.1035593/

 

[carob]

Three days ago someone registered daily-stormer.com at Godaddy, and two years ago someone registered makeamericahateagain.com at Godaddy and is offering it for sale at domainmarket.com for $9,888.

There is a link there to search for similar domains - interesting, shows 2818 domains:
https://www.domainmarket.com/similar/makeamericahateagain.com

Daily-wormer.com is free to register.

 

[carob]

For those of you interested in the subject I HIGHLY recommend reading the following short but very concise book on Free Speech ...
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/free-speech-a-very-short-introduction-9780199232352

Thanks, I am getting a copy. Here is an intro:

 

[biggie]

free speech, is not free

if, it has a cost

because that cost is always summed up, in the reactions to it.

and when the dust settles.... who pays the price?

imo....

 

[Jv1999]

Guys, GD didn't oust the domain because of hate speech. After reading GD replies here, it looks like they did it because it was illegal. Like, legit, they could've gotten in trouble if they let the domain stay because the Neo Nazis were going from simple expression of hate speech to trying to incite violence, which is illegal.

For that reason, this discussion isn't about free speech anymore, but how weird it is that you can say things that can incite violence and then get censored.

for example: I THINK WE SHOULD ALL PUNCH @Haris EVERYTIME HE REGGAE A NEW DOMAIN! WHO IS WITH ME? LET'S GO!!!!!!! <-- then suddenly Namepros.com gets a cancellation notice because of content inciting violence </3