discuss Do you ever feel bad about being a domain squatter?

[bluebox]

So I've been searching for a domain for myself (not for resell) a nice 3-letter acronym that is also be a surname.

I found around 50-ish names regged:
32 new TLDs - most aren't even resolving.
Main TLDs - .com is redirecting the rest is parked or "for sale"
ccTLDs - 10+ registered

Guess how many websites are there....
4 (cctlds)
Almost 50 domains registered and most of them is just sitting there, unused...

No wonder the rest of the world hates us.

Don't get me wrong - I know I am a hypocrite. Just the other day I used a few GD coupons to catch some domains for resale.
Still - I'm guessing 99% of 2-3 letter names and probably 90%+ of other domains is just parked/for sale.
I hate seeing names I like wasted like that...

 

[discobull]

It's not dramatic. Like i said, the "principle" is just the same, no matter what term you use: domaining, scalping, squatting, hoarding, hostage-taking.... the "concept" is the same. You are not adding "value" to the domain to justify the almost 100% inflation in the price tag. You are just capitalizing on the "need". The more that someone needs it, the more you raise the price. That's the purpose of "auctions", right ?

By the way, Somalian pirates are grabbing merchant ships off the African coast. They get paid millions in exchange for the release of the ships. It's a pretty good "investment". LOL

It only becomes "dramatic", because you humans are so emotional when it comes to terminologies.

Terminologies, are just words. The "scheme" or "business model", is the same.

You humans? I think you might be taking the alien thing a little too seriously, don't you?

In any case, equating domaining with hostage taking is flat out stupid. How many people have died because they couldn't fork over the "ransom" demanded by domainers? Is the grocer that wants a buck a pound for the tomatoes that cost him 50 cents/lb also a hostage taker? An extortionist?

There are in life as in business differing degrees of "needs". The reason hostage taking is illegal and domaining isn't is because living is an actual need whereas having a domain is more along the lines of a luxury. Unfortunately, as is evidenced in this thread, sometimes people have trouble distinguishing between needs and wants.

The OP, for example, thinks he's more entitled to a particular domain because he "needs" to have it as a cool domain, whereas the evil guy that actually purchased the domain only bought it in order to make a living ( oh, the horror! ). Let's ponder for a moment what we think would happen if the OP was somehow able to purchase his desired domain for reg fee and the following day a corporation approached him with a $100k offer for that domain. Do you think he'd still "need" that domain?

 

[alien51]

I think the scalper/domainer comparison is crap.

Crap is just a human emotion of disdain. The business model is still the same.

unless you call ripping off concertgoers and sports fans investing.

You were not exactly ripped off. You just didn't get the tickets early enough. Now that you came late, there are so many people already "wanting" the same ticket. Law of supply-and-demand dictates that you raise prices when demand is strong and supply is scarce.

What part is the ripping-off ?!?

Once the show is over, the tickets are worthless.

You didn't pay the ticket scalper 50 grand for the cardboard ticket. You paid 50 grand to the scalper to beat the other guys for the frontrow seat on a Justin Bieber concert.

Domains will always have at least the potential to increase in value.

Domains are just worth reg fee. It only increases in price, when 2 or more people start fighting to get it.

 

[alien51]

You humans? I think you might be taking the alien thing a little too seriously, don't you?

You have no idea.

 

[nomen]

Honestly, I couldn't care less if someone thinks/says I'm a domain squatter. I love language, more specifically words, so I domain. Haters gonna hate.

 

[alien51]

Honestly, I couldn't care less if someone thinks/says I'm a domain squatter. I love language, more specifically words, so I domain. Haters gonna hate.

That's the spirit !!

I own close to 3,000 domains myself. I don't know why these people are so sensitive about what exactly you want to call this thing.

When you are a businessman, you are only interested on how the "business model" of making money works. And whether it is not illegal.

Like i said in my early post, morality has no place in a free-market capitalism. That is why they invented "legislation" and "policy controls". Without controls, you people will become animals and start killing each other for money.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Wouldn't ford dealer be registrar in this case?
And you are part of a group who decided to buy all good cars in town so they can sell them for $xx mil... ?
So now most folks have to ride a bus since they cant afford a car...
or something like that

Not everyone can drive a "good" car.

 

[Domainace]

As much as I would love for us to be called the Somali pirates of the internet, the comparison is too absurd to respond to. Aargh.
Squatter is wrong, too. Squatters are using another person's property without permission or payment .
Scalpers is closer. But concert promoters soon learn to jack up prices to that share back. Similar to what registrars are doing with new TLDs.

Bob Parsons originally wanted to name his registrar Bigdaddy, but he couldn't get the .com. If he was like some of the whiners out there, he would be some struggling schmuck writing blog posts about how dirty Somali pirate squatters stopped him from achieving success. Instead he's out shooting elephants for kicks. If you want to blame domainers for something, blame us for that.

 

[Icenevermelts]

Lets say that domaining is same as property investors. So you buy 10,000 acres and they
sit there for 7 years before you start dividing them and reselling for more profit. Is that fare?

What about wholesalers? They buy in bulk from China and sell each item separate for 50 times more than what they paid. Is that fare? Enough said. If this would be wrong I wouldn't be doing it.

I guess its all about money investing and taking the risk.

 

[alien51]

As much as I would love for us to be called the Somali pirates of the internet, the comparison is too absurd to respond to.

The Somali pirates analogy, was used in relation to the word "investment". Try to go back and see what the analogy was referring to.

Domainers love to use the word "investing", because it makes the practice dignified. This is very similar to stock market traders. They don't want to be called "gamblers" or even "speculators", they want to be recognized as someone "investing" in stocks.

"Investing" is a very convenient word to use.

But deep inside, the business model of how you earn money, is exactly the same. Call it whatever you want, but the scheme is identical.

You are NOT adding value to the domain to justify your highly inflated asking price. You are just trying to exploit someone who "badly needs it".

I am referring to the financial economic equation here, whether it applies to domaining, real estate flipping, Somali hostage taking, OPEC oil cartel pricing, Chinese currency fixing, ...... the money equation is the same. No amount of semantics will make it any different.

 

[SpareDomains]

2 of my businesses= ticket broker and domain broker so they really love me. Could feel bad about it but then I open my checkbook and say nah I'm cool.

Most that complain about domain prices have no budget or worthwhile development skills. If they really had some killer development skills/killer business plan they would either have cash from previous successful ventures or they would be able to get financing based on a rock solid business/development plan. Creative financing happens on my end as well whether that is down payment/payment plan or equity stake.

In 11+ years I've sold many $8 expired domains in the 1-10k range to end users without a single complaint on pricing. Generally the ones that complain aren't the right buyer for the domain anyway with the correct skill set to bring the domain to the proper development level.

I've hand registered plenty of domains for my own projects that worked fine. If someone truly has to have a domain with no budget and aren't open to creative financing to make their dream domain happen they can launch on an alternative and upgrade later once they prove they can be successful and generate profit.

A good domain name definitely helps but it's not the determining factor between success/failure.

 

[discobull]

You are just trying to exploit someone who "badly needs it".

Give me an example of someone being exploited because they "badly need" a domain. My experience is that when I don't offer a domain to a potential buyer at a price they find appealing, they just use something else, they don't roll over and die.

 

[alien51]

when I don't offer a domain to a potential buyer at a price they find appealing, they just use something else, they don't roll over and die.

That's not the point. The point is your "business model".

They could have regged the domain for reg fee 10 bucks. All you did was mark it as "mine". Then flip it to the guy who has legit use for it for 350 bucks. Because the ROI is so huge, you are now encouraged to grab more domains to mark as "mine", hoping that the slow pokes will come knocking on your door and if they cannot find any quality domains anymore, they will succumb to your demands and pay you your astronomical asking price because they need the domains.

You didn't help them save effort like delivering logistics from the warehouse to your local shop across the street for their convenience. You didn't purchase it in Italy and sold it to someone in Florida, thereby compensating you extra for that overseas transportation and customs fees.

With domains, all you did was reg the domain as fast as possible. Flip it for 300% profit just like what any scalper would do. And you call it "investment".

 

[ResoluteDomains]

You are just trying to exploit someone who "badly needs it".

Badly needs what? A domain name which I paid for with time and with my money? Why is it OK for this person who "badly needs it" to use my domain name for their own profit, but its not OK for me to? So my time and my money is not worth anything to these people? What happens when their idea fails - do they give it back? No. They'll turn around and sell it and they wont think twice about it. All is great when its a one-way street in the direction you're going though.

 

[alien51]

So my time and my money is not worth anything to these people?

What time investment did you make on the domain? You mean you want to be compensated for the 12 hours you spent rummaging through the dropped domains list ?? Or the time you spent haggling with a domainer reseller back-and-forth to get the domain for 350 bucks, so now you want to be compensated for the effort by reselling it for 1,200 bucks ??

About your "money", you will not be happy to have your capital of 10 bucks returned back to you, right ?? You want 80 bucks, or 8 times the cost you spent for it.

Banks borrow your savings deposit, and only pay you back 3% on annual returns.
But with domains, you invested 8 bucks and you are demanding an 800% return.

 

[discobull]

That's not the point. The point is your "business model".

They could have regged the domain for reg fee 10 bucks. All you did was mark it as "mine". Then flip it to the guy who has legit use for it for 350 bucks. Because the ROI is so huge, you are now encouraged to grab more domains to mark as "mine", hoping that the slow pokes will come knocking on your door and if they cannot find any quality domains anymore, they will succumb to your demands and pay you your astronomical asking price because they need the domains.

You didn't help them save effort like delivering logistics from the warehouse to your local shop across the street for their convenience. You didn't purchase it in Italy and sold it to someone in Florida, thereby compensating you extra for that overseas transportation and customs fees.

With domains, all you did was reg the domain as fast as possible. Flip it for 300% profit just like what any scalper would do. And you call it "investment".

Actually, it is the point because your claim is that people that badly need my domain are being exploited. I have sold a lot of domains but I have yet to come across anyone that couldn't live without the domain they bought. If you're now acknowledging that your initial assertion is mistaken, that's fine, but when I effectively illustrate that people don't actually need my domains, don't tell me that that's irrelevant when you've just made their need a central part of your argument.

Additionally, your assumptions about my business model are largely inaccurate which is somewhat surprising considering you've apparently been doing this for some time.

For starters, tell me how you can simultaneously believe that it is hard for an end user to find a good domain, but somehow easy for me? I'm pretty sure that I'm not imagining that I work long hours every day looking for good domains to buy and that I don't come across that many that often. Secondly, your assumption that I don't provide the buyer any benefit is self-evidently false since the alternative to paying me for a domain that he can have right now with no effort, is for him to spend hours upon hours searching for something usable at reg fee. The buyer gets to choose whether it's more important to him to save time or to save money -- he doesn't have a gun to his head -- and the reason I know how hard it would be for him to find a domain is because I've had to do his work for him.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

That's not the point. The point is your "business model".

They could have regged the domain for reg fee 10 bucks. All you did was mark it as "mine". Then flip it to the guy who has legit use for it for 350 bucks. Because the ROI is so huge, you are now encouraged to grab more domains to mark as "mine", hoping that the slow pokes will come knocking on your door and if they cannot find any quality domains anymore, they will succumb to your demands and pay you your astronomical asking price because they need the domains.

You didn't help them save effort like delivering logistics from the warehouse to your local shop across the street for their convenience. You didn't purchase it in Italy and sold it to someone in Florida, thereby compensating you extra for that overseas transportation and customs fees.

With domains, all you did was reg the domain as fast as possible. Flip it for 300% profit just like what any scalper would do. And you call it "investment".

Who the hell is anyone to tell anyone else what is a "legit use" of a domain name?

 

[discobull]

Banks borrow your savings deposit, and only pay you back 3% on annual returns.
But with domains, you invested 8 bucks and you are demanding an 800% return.

Banks have no risk, I do. Yes, I might have an 800% return on one domain, but that isn't the full picture, is it? That's because, for every domain I buy that returns a profit I also have a bunch that I lose money on. It's a fundamental fact of life that increased risk yields increased rewards. Do you honestly believe that I'd be able to turn a profit or even break even if I was reselling domains with a 3% markup?

 

[ResoluteDomains]

What time investment did you make on the domain? You mean you want to be compensated for the 12 hours you spent rummaging through the dropped domains list ?? Or the time you spent haggling with a domainer reseller back-and-forth to get the domain for 350 bucks, so now you want to be compensated for the effort by reselling it for 1,200 bucks ??

About your "money", you will not be happy to have your capital of 10 bucks returned back to you, right ?? You want 80 bucks, or 8 times the cost you spent for it.

Banks borrow your savings deposit, and only pay you back 3% on annual returns.
But with domains, you invested 8 bucks and you are demanding an 800% return.

I have an idea. Your domains... give them to me. Better yet, spread them around and give some to each of us on here.

Also, your bank account - we'll want that too.

Your home, your car and your other possessions.

Who are you to have that stuff and not share it?

We'll put it to "legit" use. And we'll decide for you what "legit" is....

And you're also wrong on several more points: I never purchase from drop lists nor other domain owners. Mine are all hand registered. I also do not sell to other domain investors because, well you're right about one thing, $80 is far too low of a profit to make.

And, yes, I want to be compensated for my 12 hours over 100s of domains. Funny how my time is worthless but is yours? How about you donate 12 hours to me and everyone on here. Until you give up your goods, we've got nothing further to speak of.

These damn two-way streets of reality really suck. Enjoy.

 

[alien51]

Additionally, your assumptions about my business model are largely inaccurate which is somewhat surprising considering you've apparently been doing this for some time.

I was not referring to your specific business in particular. I'm not privy to how you do your stuff. I am referring to the business model of domaining in general.

And yes, i have been doing this for some time. The difference is, i don't get any delusions or dramatics on how money is made in Domaining.

If two people want my domains, i will send it to Auction and will happily sit and relax while these two people fight to their deaths bidding up my domains. At the end of the day, i'll sweep away the carcass of losers, and collect my money from the highest bidder.

Capitalism is sweet. And it is not illegal, that's the best part.

For starters, tell me how you can simultaneously believe that it is hard for an end user to find a good domain, but somehow easy for me? I'm pretty sure that I'm not imagining that I work long hours every day looking for good domains to buy and that I don't come across that many that often. Secondly, your assumption that I don't provide the buyer any benefit is self-evidently false since the alternative to paying me for a domain that he can have right now with no effort, is for him to spend hours upon hours searching for something usable at reg fee. The buyer gets to choose whether it's more important to him to save time or to save money -- he doesn't have a gun to his head -- and the reason I know how hard it would be for him to find a domain is because I've had to do his work for him.

Pal, "good demains" is just a frame of mind. Generally, what is good to you, sucks big time to others.

Countless domainers have sent me solicitation emails peddling to me their "great domains". They all suck to me.

And no need to exaggerate the amount of effort needed for an end-user to find a good domain that fits his use.

From my experience, we don't need a Domainer to tell me what domains are good for me. We brainstorm it with business proprietors. Type the domain name on DomainTools, and see it's already taken. Most of the time, i end up paying Andrew the Domain Vacuum Cleaner the money he wants, and i'm done.

And nobody here is complaining about Andrew playing fair, right ?? He sends an army of cyborgs to clean out the dropping domains faster than any organic lifeforms out there. You believe that's fair ??? I could have regged the effing domain for 1.99 at Godaddy, but NO, the effing cyborg from Andrew grabbed it away from my hands in 50 nanoseconds after it dropped and now he is asking me to shell out $2,350 bucks for it. Nice, right ??

 

[discobull]

I was not referring to your specific business in particular. I'm not privy to how you do your stuff. I am referring to the business model of domaining in general.

And yes, i have been doing this for some time. The difference is, i don't get any delusions or dramatics on how money is made in Domaining.

If two people want my domains, i will send it to Auction and will happily sit and relax while these two people fight to their deaths bidding up my domains. At the end of the day, i'll sweep away the carcass of losers, and collect my money from the highest bidder.

Capitalism is sweet. And it is not illegal, that's the best part.




Pal, "good demains" is just a frame of mind. Generally, what is good to you, sucks big time to others.

Countless domainers have sent me solicitation emails peddling to me their "great domains". They all suck to me.

And no need to exaggerate the amount of effort needed for an end-user to find a good domain that fits his use.

From my experience, we don't need a Domainer to tell me what domains are good for me. We brainstorm it with business proprietors. Type the domain name on DomainTools, and see it's already taken. Most of the time, i end up paying Andrew the Domain Vacuum Cleaner the money he wants, and i'm done.

And nobody here is complaining about Andrew playing fair, right ?? He sends an army of cyborgs to clean out the dropping domains faster than any organic lifeforms out there. You believe that's fair ??? I could have regged the effing domain for 1.99 at Godaddy, but NO, the effing cyborg from Andrew grabbed it away from my hands in 50 nanoseconds after it dropped and now he is asking me to shell out $2,350 bucks for it. Nice, right ??

What's unfair about what Andrew does? He's invested a lot of money in infrastructure to be able to do what he does so in my book he's earned what he gets. Consistently what I hear from you are these fuzzy notions of unfairness that seem to stem from an incomplete assessment of the circumstances.

 

[loupe]

So I've been searching for a domain for myself (not for resell) a nice 3-letter acronym that is also be a surname.

I found around 50-ish names regged:
32 new TLDs - most aren't even resolving.
Main TLDs - .com is redirecting the rest is parked or "for sale"
ccTLDs - 10+ registered

Guess how many websites are there....
4 (cctlds)
Almost 50 domains registered and most of them is just sitting there, unused...

No wonder the rest of the world hates us.

Don't get me wrong - I know I am a hypocrite. Just the other day I used a few GD coupons to catch some domains for resale.
Still - I'm guessing 99% of 2-3 letter names and probably 90%+ of other domains is just parked/for sale.
I hate seeing names I like wasted like that...

I guess alot of realestate, land etc speculators in the offline world are squatters too So many empty buildings, unused land ...

But seriously, if some one regs existing brands / trademarks that's squatting. (with the usual exceptions like generics, type of use etc) Not much else to discuss here.

 

[alien51]

Consistently what I hear from you are these fuzzy notions of unfairness that seem to stem from an incomplete assessment of the circumstances.

I don't even care if it's unfair. Like i said countless times earlier, as long as it is not illegal, fine with me. I will play your Wild, Wild, West money game.

From the very beginning of this thread, the bone of emotional anguish from all you people, are just the English semantics. I don't care about those stuffs. I don't care about pirates, Somalis, newbies, scalpers, squatters.....

What i care about is how your money-making scheme works. Like i said, they are all similar, if not identical. We all just use nice English words to mask human emotions. But the cash registers know how you make money, is the same as the other guys you don't want to get associated with.

 

[discobull]

I don't even care if it's unfair. Like i said countless times earlier, as long as it is not illegal, fine with me. I will play your Wild, Wild, West money game.

From the very beginning of this thread, the bone of emotional anguish from all you people, are just the English semantics. I don't care about those stuffs. I don't care about pirates, Somalis, newbies, scalpers, squatters.....

What i care about is how your money-making scheme works. Like i said, they are all similar, if not identical. We all just use nice English words to mask human emotions. But the cash registers know how you make money, is the same as the other guys you don't want to get associated with.

Case #1: OP is abducted by Somali Pirates
Benefit of paying Pirate's ransom: He gets to live but otherwise gets nothing for his money
Consequence of not paying Somali Pirates: OP is executed


Case #2: OP wants to buy a domain that is already registered to a domainer
Benefit of paying domainer's "ransom": OP gets a "cool domain" that he didn't previously own and that he can now use as an email address
Consequence of not paying domainer: The poor lad is stuck using gmail


All I can say is that, even though you apparently can't figure out the difference between these 2 cases, we should all be grateful that our legal system recognizes the difference between a coerced extraction of funds such as in case #1 and basic commerce as exemplified by case #2 . Since, in fact, my cash register knows that I have nothing in common with Somali pirates, I sleep fine at night. How you can sleep when you believe yourself to be the moral equivalent of an extortionist and kidnapper is a mystery to me.

 

[alien51]

No matter how you paint the storylines, the money equation stays the same.

Whether you talk about the bad guys or the good guys, as long as they are using the same business model, it's practically the same racket.

 

[bluebox]

So for now:
one person thinks sitting on undeveloped names is wrong (I think they must have end up on a wrong forum / or are just trolling )
5 people feel a little bit bad about it
78% see domains only as an investment so parked / empty names don't bother them