BrandBucket VS BrandRoot - Which one do you think is better?

[Justin Matmor]

The best way to find out if BR or BB are a good playform to sell your domains, approach them as an end user and see how quickly they respond, how hard they try to sell you a domain, and whether or not they are professional.

 

[Keith DeBoer]

Thanks @Grilled, I've also heard from others that BR has pretty short review times these days however, according to the owner, he has 250 applications that he hasn't responded to. BR should clean that up. That's not fair to domainers, especially newbies. A lot of people have soured on BR because of that. It's unfortunate.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Thanks @Grilled, I've also heard from others that BR has pretty short review times these days however, according to the owner, he has 250 applications that he hasn't responded to. BR should clean that up. That's not fair to domainers, especially newbies. A lot of people have soured on BR because of that. It's unfortunate.

I completely understand. BrandRoot has a tough decision to make. I think they do this to grow at a manageable rate. To my knowledge they don't have 5/6 people reviewing the domains like BrandBucket so obviously to keep resources allocated properly, they limit their sellers to focus on their buyers.

Personally, I also believe it's to discourage things like that CVCV sale Domaing.com emailed saying they bought from BR then used a follow up email to promote their marketplace when he contacted the WHOIS owner and got them to list with his marketplace. It was all detailed in this NP thread.

I just gave my cyical opinion on that, and a lot of other brandbucket and industry related concerns in @James Iles All things brandable with Michael Krell thread in this thread..

 

[Keith DeBoer]

I completely understand. BrandRoot has a tough decision to make. I think they do this to grow at a manageable rate. To my knowledge they don't have 5/6 people reviewing the domains like BrandBucket so obviously to keep resources allocated properly, they limit their sellers to focus on their buyers.

Personally, I also believe it's to discourage things like that CVCV sale Domaing.com emailed saying they bought from BR then used a follow up email to promote their marketplace when he contacted the WHOIS owner and got them to list with his marketplace. It was all detailed in NP this thread.

I gave my cyical opinion on that, and a lot of other brandbucket and industry related concerns in @James Iles All things brandable with Michael Krell thread in this thread..

If BR doesn't want new sellers that's fine. But they should either close their seller application page or send rejection notices to those that have applied. It's simply not right to ask people to apply and then not respond to them. You can see some of the seller anger in the comments here.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

If BR doesn't want new sellers that's fine. But they should either close their seller application page or send rejection notices to those that have applied. It's simply not right to ask people to apply and then not respond to them. You can see some of the seller anger in the comments here.

While this is your opinion, it is my opinion that this too is done to grow at a manageble rate.

They are strict about their rules, because for them, it appears to be easier for them to work with a smaller set of sellers. Take that CVCV example for instance. They try to prevent things like that from happening, but marginally, that have to expect it to happen. They tighten their rules as much as possible to prevent this from happening, but inevitably, they have to trust the domainer.

Look, I know this a very unpopular stance to take. Especially, because I am saying this from a privileged perspective having been accepted last year for BrandRoot. Maybe they accepted me because of my domains, or maybe because I mentioned that I'm a disabled army veteran and they support our military. For what ever there reasons, I was cautious about their listing fee's after my BrandBucket experience, and only decided to published 24 domains to BrandRoot @ $10 per domain + Logo fee in or around February, 2016. Most were made up brandable domains. They were not the keyword domain that has obvious endusers and type in traffic often able to sell itself. One sold this month, not at full ask, but it sold. That's one BrandRoot sale in three months out of 24 hand regged domains.

Although, I have not always agreed with BrandRoot on NamePros, and certain quarrels have definitely rubbed me the wrong way, overall as a marketplace, I am thus far a happy BrandRoot seller. I am excited to hear about BrandRoot's domainer/logo designer programs if anybody has anything they can add.

 

[Keith DeBoer]

While this is your opinion, it is my opinion that this too is done to grow at a manageble rate.

They are strict about their rules, because for them, it appears to be easier for them to work with a smaller set of sellers. Take that CVCV example for instance. They try to prevent things like that from happening, but marginally, that have to expect it to happen. They tighten their rules as much as possible to prevent this from happening, but inevitably, they have to trust the domainer.

Look, I know this a very unpopular stance to take. Especially, because I am saying this from a privileged perspective having been accepted last year for BrandRoot. Maybe they accepted me because of my domains, or maybe because I mentioned that I'm a disabled army veteran and they support our military. For what ever there reasons, I was cautious about their listing fee's after my BrandBucket experience, and only decided to published 24 domains to BrandRoot @ $10 per domain + Logo fee in or around February, 2016. Most were made up brandable domains. They were not the keyword domain that has obvious endusers and type in traffic often able to sell itself. One sold this month, not at full ask, but it sold. That's one BrandRoot sale in three months out of 24 hand regged domains.

Although, I have not always agreed with BrandRoot on NamePros, and certain quarrels have definitely rubbed me the wrong way, overall as a marketplace, I am thus far a happy BrandRoot seller. I am excited to hear about BrandRoot's domainer/logo designer programs if anybody has anything they can add.

I don't have a problem with BR being an exclusive club and you being in it. I think its great. Congrats on your sale! I'm glad you've found your niche marketplace.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I don't have a problem with BR being an exclusive club and you being in it. I think its great. Congrats on your sale! I'm glad you've found your niche marketplace.

Thanks @Keith DeBoer - while I may be a seller, I wouldn't go as far as saying I found my niche marketplace just yet. I would like to know more about the domainer/designer option BrandRoot offers to confirm the discounted listing fee's, and removal of logo fee BrandRoot provides in exchange for providing your own quality logo.

I used to be proud to say I was a BrandBucket seller, but I can no longer say that. I have more domains listed with nonexclusive marketplaces than any other place. I believe some of my keyword domains have endusers and will sell itself, however, I have many brandable domains that will need the help of brandable marketplace to be discovered and sold. IMO, something like GreenTree.com will always have endusers with similar domains registered, but a rare 5L pattern domain like Koddu.com needs the extra help of a place like BrandRoot and their brandable buyers to found and sold. I am thankful to be included to BrandRoot's niche marketplace that does very well in organic google searches.

 

[Archangel]

Brandroot is run by a little kid in his basement. The owner is a total asshole and actually called NP users a lotta choice words (anyone recall the Namepros Nancies rant??). He's VERY immature, and I refuse to work with him ever again.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

actually called NP users a lotta choice words (anyone recall the Namepros Nancies rant??).

I have never seen this post before. Can you find and share it, so I, and others can be aware? Thank you.

 

[Archangel]

He pretty much destroyed BR's reputation with it. As damage control, he edited pretty much every post he made in the thread. His username at the time was Pluto:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/warning-against-a-member.836920/

 

[Chris Hydrick]

actually called NP users a lotta choice words (anyone recall the Namepros Nancies rant??).

He pretty much destroyed BR's reputation with it. As damage control, he edited pretty much every post he made in the thread. His username at the time was Pluto:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/warning-against-a-member.836920/

Ahh, that thread. Yeah, I saw that recently, and even quoted and shared it when BrandRoot called me cynical for publicly questioning a reported sale of a recently purchased brandable domain of mine, that at one point, had sold via BrandRoot and dropped. At the time, I brought it up because I was offended when called cynical, even though he had a valid point about me coming to him privately first, before publicly questioning the integrity of their sales. I ran an audit on their reported sold domains, and after I have all facts available, I will contact BrandRoot privately to question any sale in question before reporting my findings publicly.

I reminded them, and everyone else, of the thread to remind them that while fighting with sellers might win a short term war, this approach won't win battles. BrandRoot later reappeared in the NP thread about the Domaining CVCV thread, and IMO, handled it much better than I expected them too. It is never too late to improvise, adapt, and overcome. Though, I realize behavior like the above thread must first be acknowledged and never repeated. Yes, it's OK for BrandRoot strictly enforce their rules, but they don't have permission to speak to their sellers in the manner that was done in 2014.

Another NP brandable domainer came to me privately with a BrandRoot concern that has not yet been mentioned. I'm still unsure to how much of it was in result to a rule violation, and what the exact outcome was. I will invite them privately to join the conversation, in case they would like to share their concern, and have it evaluated. As of now, there have been some positive sales in the BrandRoot experience thread lately. If anybody has a sales experience of their own, I urge them to let us know via the BR experience thread.

 

[Archangel]

I'm also aware that the thread is a bit old, and things change with time. But BR isn't a company. It's a lone guy working in his free time. He isn't just the face of the "company" -- he IS the "company." I've worked with him once, and he called me every bad word imaginable... even after I stuck up & defended BR many times in the past before then. He may have apologized, but I've still no respect for him. And I'll never do business with him again.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I'm also aware that the thread is a bit old, and things change with time. But BR isn't a company. It's a lone guy working in his free time. He isn't just the face of the "company" -- he IS the "company." I've worked with him once, and he called me every bad word imaginable... even after I stuck up & defended BR many times in the past before then. He may have apologized, but I've still no respect for him. And I'll never do business with him again.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It's feedback like this, that I feel BrandRoot should humbly accept, and respond to accordingly. You have a right to your opinion, just as he has a right to explain himself and his company.

More feedback = more transparency.

 

[Azwan Asban]

I agree Brandroot isnt a company..
A clone

 

[Recons.Com]

My experience with BR has been positive so far.

While it is not very convenient to add names with 10 max daily limit and the site had couple of glitches along the way, the big advantage over BB is:

a) they allow to rate the logos reducing the chance for lazy work
b) they don't manipulate the data, like BB does with the "50 sellers with 17%+ sell through rate" type of bs or don't pretend to share useless data like BB's "here are top 15 search words that happen to be just categories, not actual word within brands".
c) they don't have negative bias against dictionary word plurals and few other categories of names
d) there is no possible/deemed conflict of interest with owner/manager/ambassador/etc getting better info, logos, placement etc.

 

[JimJammy]

How do you know about d)? He keeps his whois private doesn't he and he has never to my knowledge shared how many domains he owns and has listed, even though he does have names listed as he has referred to it here.

For me, it's all about who is going to put the most money in my pocket. The last domain sold in the BR thread shows that a massive 41% was taken in various fees (seller only got $590 on a $1,000 sale). To my knowledge, BR hasn't shared the average selling price of a domain listed. On BB it's just under $3K.

BB - $2.4 million in 2015 sales, growth has been 150% of previous YOY (so can guestimate close to $4 million for 2016) currently 29K names on site.
BR - $1 million in expected 2016 sales (don't know 2015 because he hasn't shared that to my knowledge), currently 9K names on site.

The maths suggests I'm better off with BB.
The lack of average domain sale price at BR suggests I'm better off at BB.
The lack of knowing (and being able to validate) how many domains the owner has listed suggests I'm better off with BB.

I just feel that BB has more transparancy all round.

 

[Recons.Com]

The important average is the average for your average name.

For BB, is it still $3K after excluding high ticket items?

From what I have experienced, BB and BR price 80% of regular brandables within similar ranges of $1.5K to $3K range.

BB sold 800 names last year. If 100 of them averaged $8000, and another 100 averaged $4000, then for the rest 600 names the average sale price was (2.4M - 0.8M - 0.4M)/600 = $2K.

With little information disclosed, there is not much you can conclude from the average presented by BB. For all we know, maybe they sold 1 domain for $1M and the remaining 800 averaged less than $2K.

Also, how do you know BR's expected 2016 sales?

If BR sells 4% out of around 9000 names it will have as a mid year point, that is 360 names. At average listing price over $2K, that is over $720,000. Moreover, if I remember correctly, BR posted around 40 names sold in a month recently here. That would imply sell through rates over 5%. So BR could be close to $1M in 2016 if they keep it up.

But certainly making conclusions on "last reported sale here" is not very helpful.

 

[JimJammy]

BR said here (on NP) somewhere that they were on track to do $1m in sales for 2016.

How do you know

d) there is no possible/deemed conflict of interest with owner/manager/ambassador/etc getting better info, logos, placement etc.

Because he does have his names listed on his site. Unlike BB he doesn't share with us how many.

BB sold 800 names last year. If 100 of them averaged $8000, and another 100 averaged $4000, then for the rest 600 names the average sale price was (2.4M - 0.8M - 0.4M)/600 = $2K.

When BB says their average sales price is approx $3K, what they mean is, their average sales price is approx $3K. $2.4m / 800 = $3K.

I'm sure there are high value sales that have pulled that figure up, just as there are plenty of lower sales that have pulled that figure down. The sums indicate exactly what they said. The average sales price is approx $3K. Most of my sales have been in the $2,xxx range so I'm lower than the average sales price.

BR hasn't shared any data on that - but if they are on track to do $1M and they really are selling 40 names a month then their average selling price is just over $2K. $1m / 480.

 

[Keith DeBoer]

b) they don't manipulate the data, like BB does with the "50 sellers with 17%+ sell through rate" type of bs or don't pretend to share useless data like BB's "here are top 15 search words that happen to be just categories, not actual word within brands".

I've never seen BR publish data about there sales. Can you point to someplace where where I can see it? Thanks!

 

[Recons.Com]

Well, personally for me what matters is that I will have opportunity to compare on my own experience. I have listed over 50 (might bring to around 100) with BB and I will have few hundred with BR.

Regarding averages, there is nothing here that statistics science has not covered.

If BB wanted to really present the real picture they could provide median number, meaning for how much did the name number 400 (ranked by $) sell for. They could also present the average for middle 60% or 80% excluding the outliers.

These things are done, for example, by the the MBA programs, when they show average of their gmat score, they also present 80% range, as some programs might entice few very high scores with free enrollment to pull up their numbers.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I've never seen BR publish data about there sales. Can you point to someplace where where I can see it? Thanks!

Just google: "sold" site:brandroot.com

That's how I found my then BrandBucket published domain (new reg from expireds) was previously sold on BrandRoot.

@Dnbolt had published a list of BrandRoots sales. I am unsure of how they were obtained. I ran an audit of these domains, found a few details that I would like to look into, and ask BR for further comment before saying anything about it publicly. Michael offered a fair explanation to the history of my domain, and historical screenshots backed the dates he provided.

My computer just crashed, so I'll have to re run the audit. I'm not sure if I still have the data. If not, I hope @Dnbolt will work with me to analyze the data.

 

[Recons.Com]

I've never seen BR publish data about there sales. Can you point to someplace where where I can see it? Thanks!

Those threads are few hundred pages long. I remember it happened when BB number of 81 sales for a month was mentioned. Don't know if it got edited or is still here.

I found the post where BR states that their sell through is higher than BB's 4% annualized for that month (BB's number went to 2.8% for April).

It's interesting how that number is higher at Brandroot. They have heaps more names than we do, yet their turnover rate is lower? BB is no doubt monetizing quite a bit on type-in traffic. If Brandroot lost traction on Google I guess we would take on 10's of thousands more names to get more type-in traffic sales. Pretty smart.

 

[Keith DeBoer]

Just google: "sold" site:brandroot.com

That's how I found my then BrandBucket published domain (new reg) was previously sold on BrandRoot.

@Dnbolt had published a list of BrandRoots sales. I am unsure of how they were obtained. I ran an audit of these domains, found a few details that I would like to look into, and ask BR for further comment before saying anything about it publicly. Michael offered a fair explanation to the history of my domain, and historical screenshots backed the dates he provided.

Thanks Grilled. That's the workaround to get DNbolt's estimation of what BR sold.

But Recon says BR doesn't cook its data. I'm saying what data? To my knowledge BR has never published any data. If they have, then someone please provide a link. I'd like to see it.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

My computer just crashed, so I'll have to re run the audit. I'm not sure if I still have the data. If not, I hope @Dnbolt will work with me to analyze the data.

Luckily, I used the cloud.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, see: dnbolt.com/brandrootsales

 

[Chris Hydrick]

But Recon says BR doesn't cook its data. I'm saying what data? To my knowledge BR has never published any data. If they have, then someone please provide a link. I'd like to see it.

@Keith DeBoer I say the following with all due respect, and not to discredit BB for the data they have released.

Just because BrandRoot hasn't released the data, doesn't mean the data does't exist. Sometimes we have to find it ourselves. Just as the sales were scraped from BB to reveal the disproportionate amount of sales MK was receiving, which in turn pumped up the marketplaces annual sale through rate that for a while depicted reseller value for newcomers.