Anyone that still have balance on PayPal, Withdraw like MAD

[ngenme]

They seized my $9600 balance. I usually clear my account. However, it's near payment day, I thought I'll just withdraw at once. I've been in business with them for years and is not doing anything risky, or so I thought.

As usual they ask for documents and stuff. Then they rejected what I sent and ban permanently. Of course I can give notarized copies and get my bank to testify. But that doesn't seem to be the real issue.

However, I found this URL on the web

http://www.paypalsucks.com/PayPalFormerEmployee1.shtml

I think paypal deliberately use obviously flawed anti fraud detection. So when legitimate people supply legitimate papers they can claim that it's fake or "risky" and seize money anyway.

Despite the fact that my payers are all legitimate I think they intent to grab all of my money.

I am going to sue them.

Meanwhile, I wonder if parking companies can wire money to Indonesia? I have a US bank account if they cannot.

Update: they can. There goes Paypal greedy 2.5% kurs. Even if it has to be more than $1k, who care. I'd rather park my money at bodis, parkingcrew, and voodoo than at paypal :D now.

How can people in Indonesia sue. Should I sue their subsidiary in Singapore?

 

[iowadawg]

Yet again, another whiner about paypal.
Without again not saying WHY paypal seized account.
Paypal just does NOT take money from an account unless there is fraud.

Funny, that these whiners whine about paypal, yet paypal is still in business, still takes care of business, still is HONEST with those who do HONEST business.

 

[Ben42]

Without knowing the details I can't really comment, so...why did they seize your account?

 

[lothos]

I always withdraw money from paypal immediately. I don't think I've left over 200 bucks in there for more than a couple days.

 

[Michelle]

I always withdraw money from paypal immediately. I don't think I've left over 200 bucks in there for more than a couple days.

I am the same It only takes one dispute to put your account on hold

 

[barefoottech]

Yet again, another whiner about paypal.
Without again not saying WHY paypal seized account.
Paypal just does NOT take money from an account unless there is fraud.

Funny, that these whiners whine about paypal, yet paypal is still in business, still takes care of business, still is HONEST with those who do HONEST business.

I agree

 

[RazorNF]

Yes, for sure never leave such a large balance in your Paypal account.

I tend to always withdraw to my bank whenever I get a sizable payment.

 

[Dave_Z]

How can people in Indonesia sue. Should I sue their subsidiary in Singapore?

Generally you either sue the party in their jurisdiction, or sue in yours and somehow enforce your favorable decision (if ever) on the respondent that lives or is "domiciled" elsewhere. Your PayPal agreement can give you an idea where to sue.
Unfortunately, cross-border lawsuits aren't exactly cheap. Not unless one can afford to fight for the so-called principle.

 

[ngenme]

Yet again, another whiner about paypal.
Without again not saying WHY paypal seized account.
Paypal just does NOT take money from an account unless there is fraud.

Funny, that these whiners whine about paypal, yet paypal is still in business, still takes care of business, still is HONEST with those who do HONEST business.

I would have said the exact same thing till it happen to my self. Why do you think I had $9600 there? I trusted them.

The official reason why they banned my account is because they think my account is high risk because they cannot verify my identity.

I am NOT accused of fraud or violation of TOS. And that's EXACTLY what worries me. If I am accused of fraud, I can sort that out. Even those that violate their TOS get sorted out. It's because I don't, I am concern that their real reason is because they want to seize my money.

They said they'll return it after 180 days. However, many things can go wrong for that 180 days. They're unreasonable now, how can I know they will be reasonable 180 days from now.

I provided documents they ask and can give more. Hell, if my identity is really the issue and I got another chance to proof my self, I'll fly to singapore and visit their office.

You may think this is an easy issue to solve. After all, the issue is just whether I am who I say I am. No dispute in all these years against me.

I think the actual reason is the following.

1. I made a lot of money recently. Bizs improve. What can I say.
2. This raises some flags. Obviously. Or perhaps some hacker indeed have access to my account. No money lost yet.
3. Naturally they limit.
4. They asked for verification. I send them documents.
5. Now this is where they go wrong. They asked for ID and bills. Those can be easily faked.
6. Because those can easily be faked, most sent to them are indeed fake. Not mine. I sent real ones. However, you're facing a fraud department that handles ID where 99% of which are indeed fake.
7. They err in favor of rejecting ID.
8. So they set limitation to permanent.
9. Their procedure is to hold money for 180 days.

It is also possible that they just want to seize it forever like what this guy said:

Yes, the application process COULD be made more stringent, but it is felt (probably correctly) that a brand-new customer would certainly balk at doing things like sending in notorized copies of their driver's licence and so forth. So an "alternate strategy" for offsetting the charge-back losses slowly evolved at PP. It's the perfect scheme really; since PP can't usually catch the scammers and dosen't want to loose customer base by making things more stringent to start with- they decided to simply re-coup their chargebacks from the pockets (and accounts) of good, solid people under the easily-defensible and impossible-to-criticize guize of "Fraud Prevention and Enforcement".

http://www.paypalsucks.com/PayPalFormerEmployee1.shtml

This is what I feared the most.

Again, I don't mind providing notarized copies, etc. It's just that they have closed their eyes and ears.

Anyway learn from my lesson:
1. Don't live huge balance in paypal. I actually deliberately store money in paypal as favor. Rather than storing it in my credit card where paypal has to charge first, why not leave some in paypal to help them save costs. Well, bad idea. Just don't.
2. Bodis, voodoo, and parkingcrew can just wire money to your bank account. Once your bizs grow there will be risk. They will limit your account. It happens. So just wire straight to your bank bypassing paypal if money is more than $3k per month.

 

[Domagon]

As usual they ask for documents and stuff. Then they rejected what I sent and ban permanently. Of course I can give notarized copies and get my bank to testify. But that doesn't seem to be the real issue.

How do you know? Identity verification is an important issue for financial institutions - in many jurisdictions, it's required by law / international treaties.

Large withdrawals (or many smaller ones accumulated over time) exceeding various thresholds (low as a few $K) often triggers additional fraud screening.

Other things that can trigger scrutiny:

* Accessing from IP ranges / networks that are outside the country one signed up in. Use of a trusted VPN (as in a well known paid and/or one's own; avoid freebie ones) is often a good work-around.

* Accepting funds from sketchy sources - ie. people who likely have had many disputes against them and/or are in a business that PayPal considers high risk ... also, accepting funds from various other countries could raise flags.

* Significant change in number of transactions and/or amounts; larger than usual transfers / withdrawals (mostly likely what flagged your account).

Rambling on ... point is PayPal presumably is not trying to rip you off, but rather following procedure / law. Do your best to provide them what they desire and your funds will likely be released a lot sooner than 180 days.

As for doing doing nothing and waiting the 180 days, that's no guarantee - you could be waiting forever. Ie. PayPal lacks confidence in your identity / source of the funds (often related issues).

 

[ngenme]

How do I know it's not a real issue?

They could have phoned me. They could have phoned my bank. There is absolutely lack of effort to solve this amicably. They behave precisely like someone that just want to seize money. And I am willing to work with them proving I am real. They don't want to.

Imagine you lend money to me. Then I said okay proof to me you are who lend money to me. We can meet. I can see that you are the same guy. However, instead I ask for bills. Then I rejected your proof saying that I can't determine if the bills are fake or not. Then I just refuse to listen. Then what? I effectively grab $10k of your money under the pretext of protecting you.

Documents are easily faked. They could have asked for something more credible. Yet they deliberately asked for something any fakers can do.

I called them and they said they don't want to listen any more and they're seizing my money, for "security". Secure what? I did business with them for years with no significant issue.

Their excuse to hold payment for 180 days are total bullshit. There has been no chargeback for years. Even if somebody want to dispute, they only have 30 days because they pay with paypal. They can release part of the fund if that's really the real issue. People paid me through paypal. So the idea of holding payment for 180 days to cover chargeback is utter bullshit.

I am paid by domain parking companies mainly that must have done millions of dollars of businesses for them each year. Is that not credible enough?

It's obvious that I am legit. I don't have complaints against me. They can ask for more documents. I prefer they agree with something that can't be faked so they can't just deny that latter. They can check that if they want to check further. They refused to check further.

Anyway, is it legal for them to hold my money after 180 days are up. Their terms say they can do that if they suspect "risk" still exist. I am not accused of anything wrong. Their official reason is to verify my identity and I am willing to work. They just don't.

 

[vikap10]

I really doubt why you need to keep accumulating all that money in your paypal a/c. It is better to withdraw most of your balance to bank a/c. Keeping a small working capital is just fine.

Personally PayPal is sometimes difficult as it keeps blocking the account. However at the same time, it does resolve the issues if attended properly. I have personal experience with PayPal.

 

[Kate]

Did you try to phone them ?

 

[ngenme]

It's definitely a huge mistake to leave a large amount of money at paypal. What can I say, business grow. I don't trust paypal. I don't trust my bank either. I should have known that banks are more trustable.

Also among all of my banks, paypal is the most flexible. I can move money from paypal to my bank. The other way around is not possible. I just want to expand expand expand.

Yes I phoned them. I told them I've been customers for years. No issue. No dispute against me. The limit department says they don't care. They consider me high risk and won't do business with me anymore and will seize my money for 180 days.

They effectively say that they have given me one chance to submit document. When THEY reject the document, it's my fault. The document is real. I can give more. So what?

The upside is many people said that paypal does release funds after 180 days. That's all I care. I want it sooner. I don't trust them anymore. I filed BBB.

 

[baseballworld]

Let me get this straight. You lost $9,600.00 in a paypal account thats now locked? Someone should kick you. Hard. Why would you need that much in a paypal account.

 

[ngenme]

Someone should kick me real hard. But then again, would you distrust somebody that you've done business for years?

I was off. Perhaps too much video games.

I probably need only $3k per month for business expenses. What can I say business grow. No issue. Actually I just look at the bright side.

 

[Domagon]

Firstly, PayPal nearly never calls - often one is first notified of an issue via email. This is normal - not saying it's good, but is how PayPal operates; email bots and offshore call reps reading off scripts.

Documents are easily faked. They could have asked for something more credible. Yet they deliberately asked for something any fakers can do.

CYA ... PayPal presumably knows that too, but seeks to abide by government regulation and internal procedure...

Sure much of it is BS, but then many things in life are - either go with the flow or expect problems; sure one should push-back a bit, but lets be real, the average person / small business has practically zero leverage unless they have "special" friends who do.

I called them and they said they don't want to listen any more and they're seizing my money, for "security". Secure what? I did business with them for years with no significant issue.

Sad to say, that's par for the course for PayPal - no customer loyalty.

Their excuse to hold payment for 180 days are total bullshit. There has been no chargeback for years. Even if somebody want to dispute, they only have 30 days because they pay with paypal. They can release part of the fund if that's really the real issue. People paid me through paypal. So the idea of holding payment for 180 days to cover chargeback is utter bullshit.

Only 30 days? You sure about that, because I've seen PayPal only transactions be disputed way after that. And of course, any PayPal transaction funded by a credit card is practically open-ended. Chargebacks even after 180 days, heck even after a year, happens in the world of PayPal.

I am paid by domain parking companies mainly that must have done millions of dollars of businesses for them each year. Is that not credible enough?

If that's the case, then that helps you, since the chargebacks, etc issue above is moot ... and hence, as you've already alluded to, the crux of the issue is PayPal can't verify your identity; lacks documentation they require.

It's obvious that I am legit. I don't have complaints against me. They can ask for more documents. I prefer they agree with something that can't be faked so they can't just deny that latter. They can check that if they want to check further. They refused to check further.

One either gives PayPal what they want without fuss or they're out of luck. Not to say one can't push-back (ie. escalate to a supervisor), if the request is totally unreasonable for the situation and/or illegal, but by and large PayPal asking for government ID, utility bill, bank statement (at least the top portion showing one's name and bank acct info), etc is standard, and often legal.

Anyway, is it legal for them to hold my money after 180 days are up. Their terms say they can do that if they suspect "risk" still exist. I am not accused of anything wrong. Their official reason is to verify my identity and I am willing to work. They just don't.

Even if PayPal never re-opens your account, verifying your identity is still worthwhile to get your funds released quickly.

As for the future, wires and bank transfers ... you mention having a U.S. bank account - if so, ACH (direct deposit) is about the easiest, secure way to get paid.

 

[liquidcherry]

Yet again, another whiner about paypal.
Without again not saying WHY paypal seized account.
Paypal just does NOT take money from an account unless there is fraud.

Funny, that these whiners whine about paypal, yet paypal is still in business, still takes care of business, still is HONEST with those who do HONEST business.

Dawg,

I don't think you should call someone a fraud or whiner just because they complain about pay pal??

Since more info surfaced after your comment i can see where you are coming from...YOU are working for paypal!!! lol

Jokes aside, let me tell you about my own probs with them, maybe it will make you think twice or change your strong believe in them....

I used SOLELY paypal for all my online ventures in the past and never had a problem UNTIL a client of us had their CC stolen...so the client contacted PP, PP just froze our account,(couldn't use my PP account at all), they notified me and i submitted ALL necessary documents, contracts etc....it took more then 3 months to get my account back working....on the other hand, i used in the meantime google checkout since this was the only alternative for me and even they didn't provide recurring charging i managed to have it working, sorta(do you know what P.I.T.A it is to manually change 60+accounts?) NO, you don't lol

Besides that, i kinda understand that companies like PP try to limit fraud or problems BUT!!!!

During the period of not having PP and using google checkout, there was another incident with one of my clients card..but google NEVER froze my account, i still could use it and after providing google with evidence that i was not at fault.... boom!! everything went smoothly...and it took not even 3 weeks to clear eveything out....so....you still wanna praise PP and their practices to a level holier than anything?? i don't think so......

Besides that just think about what you could do with a 9600 bucks loan in a 180 day time period...and multiply it with thousands of accounts or similar incidents, just saying....just like the banks, they work with YOUR money, use it to make big profits... (and sadly if you need a small loan they give you the finger)

Anyway, just food for thoughts....peace and out

Cheers

Liquid

 

[ngenme]

Well, the conclusion, again I am not blaming paypal or anything, is DON'T PUT large money on paypal. In fact, don't put more than $500.

I think whether it triggers their fraud problem or they are just greedy is not an issue. The fact is they seized money if you have too much balance. If you have a smaller balance, it won't hurt. I complained to BBB already.

The problem is not that they can't tell. The problem is they have no incentive to care. Why should they pay $9600 if they can hold it indefinitely? They have 0 incentive to pay. I've heard it's illegal not hold more than 180 days. However, I wasn't sure. They're based on luxembourg. I saw forum and I saw that paypal almost always pay after 180 days. Not sure whether they will do so 6 months from now.

The fact that I am Indonesian complicate the matters more.

 

[iowadawg]

Get this straight!
Paypal does not care about your balance!
Regardless of how much you have in your account at any given time!
There are marketers and companies that have in the 6 to 10 figures in their account.

So amount is NOT going to trigger paypal into stealing your money!

Again, I say, there has to be more to this story than just identification, etc.

He is dancing around the fact that he has not told us how he got this money and from whom and why he got this money.
What did he sell? Or what services did he offer?

 

[interestedenough]

I heard in a Domainsherpa interview with Adam Dicker (he owns DNF aka DNF) that paypal cancelled his account because he was bringing in too much money (in his case, they gave the money back). So I am guessing there are some types of financial transactions that make paypal nervous. Instead of investigating in depth the problems, they resolve to just close those accounts.

If you think of it, transactions from Domainers might look fishy sometimes:
- Today, you sell a domain to somebody in Singapore and Tomorrow , you are selling one to somebody in Ireland or India.
- No tangible asset is being exchanged.
- You sell a domain without exactly knowing who it is that is buying it from you.
- Some domains, and their owners are pretty weird.

 

[alien51]

I think if your money is approaching $10,000 USD, you are very close to triggering the money laundering alarms. Lesson learned: Do your financial transactions below radar.

If identity verification is the ONLY issue, i don't know why you and Paypal can't agree on what identity verification is acceptable.

I haven't read it on any of the thread posts here, but have you actually called them on the phone?

I called up Paypal once to complain about a chargeback issue, they even have an agent who can speak my native Alien language.

 

[iowadawg]

Think of all the companies, all the people, on the net who do millions per month.
Who accept paypal!
Do you really think a company doing a million dollars a day via paypal is going to have paypal shut down their account?

Remember, paypal is owned by ebay!

Few years back, I don't know if it is still that way today, a simple form was on paypal to fill out if you saw you were going to be having like 25,000 or more in sales in a given time.

 

[liquidcherry]

I called up Paypal once to complain about a chargeback issue, they even have an agent who can speak my native Alien language.

When i had my issue i was on the phone with them at least 3 times a week(in my OWN alien language lol) but it still took over 3 months....paypal just DGAF about you needing your account, regardless of clean history, no probs in the past...once they decide to cut you of, they do...can happen to anyone(even you DAWG!)

cheers

liquid

 

[ngenme]

Get this straight!
Paypal does not care about your balance!
Regardless of how much you have in your account at any given time!
There are marketers and companies that have in the 6 to 10 figures in their account.

So amount is NOT going to trigger paypal into stealing your money!

Again, I say, there has to be more to this story than just identification, etc.

He is dancing around the fact that he has not told us how he got this money and from whom and why he got this money.
What did he sell? Or what services did he offer?

I am NOT accused of breaking TOS. My money mainly comes from bodis. I don't dance around my questions.

I also do some adsense JVs. No problems.

I think if your money is approaching $10,000 USD, you are very close to triggering the money laundering alarms. Lesson learned: Do your financial transactions below radar.

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5...erification/Spending-Limits/td-p/57695/page/2

If identity verification is the ONLY issue, i don't know why you and Paypal can't agree on what identity verification is acceptable.

I haven't read it on any of the thread posts here, but have you actually called them on the phone?

I called up Paypal once to complain about a chargeback issue, they even have an agent who can speak my native Alien language.

I don't even know what money laundering is. I suppose the balance does trigger the alarm.

Well, they ask for utility bills. I live in my parents' house.

So I sent insurance bill for a start. The only thing I could find. I didn't even know that the "appeal" already start the moment I uploaded documents. I thought the next day once my mom got back home from other city I'll upload more. Within hours, I got permanent limitation message.

My gut feeling is it's not really the issue. They already decided to keep the money and use this hoops to confuse. http://www.paypalsucks.com/PayPalFormerEmployee1.shtml . I don't know which one is right.

Basically I don't know.