Anyone that still have balance on PayPal, Withdraw like MAD

[ngenme]

They seized my $9600 balance. I usually clear my account. However, it's near payment day, I thought I'll just withdraw at once. I've been in business with them for years and is not doing anything risky, or so I thought.

As usual they ask for documents and stuff. Then they rejected what I sent and ban permanently. Of course I can give notarized copies and get my bank to testify. But that doesn't seem to be the real issue.

However, I found this URL on the web

http://www.paypalsucks.com/PayPalFormerEmployee1.shtml

I think paypal deliberately use obviously flawed anti fraud detection. So when legitimate people supply legitimate papers they can claim that it's fake or "risky" and seize money anyway.

Despite the fact that my payers are all legitimate I think they intent to grab all of my money.

I am going to sue them.

Meanwhile, I wonder if parking companies can wire money to Indonesia? I have a US bank account if they cannot.

Update: they can. There goes Paypal greedy 2.5% kurs. Even if it has to be more than $1k, who care. I'd rather park my money at bodis, parkingcrew, and voodoo than at paypal :D now.

How can people in Indonesia sue. Should I sue their subsidiary in Singapore?

 

[alien51]

Well, they ask for utility bills. I live in my parents' house.

If you live in your parents' house, i'm presuming your utility bills do not carry your name. So can't authenticate that. Is your insurance bill from a well-known insurance company? Utility/Insurance bills can be faked these days, using some imaginary insurance company that doesn't exist.

If i were Paypal, i would rather have your bank check you out. You cannot open a bank account, if the bank cannot authenticate you in person. Do you have a credit card? Visa? Mastercard?

I don't know why your identity issue is such a drag with Paypal. Unless you are not telling us some details that perhaps explains why Paypal is a bit suspicious about you, and your $9,000 dollars.

 

[afako]

One Good News for you is You can Withdraw the Money after 45 Days after calling them.

 

[HostMantis]

You don't seem to be too upset after possibly losing $9600. 9-6-0-0 DOLLARS!

If I lost $10K income that was legitimately earned, I would be absolutely livid!

Something just doesn't add up here.

Are you sure it wasn't $96?

 

[johname]

utility bills are asked for to verify the home address the same as one in the PP account. Its not a "Oh your full name not on the utility bill=fail". The odds are incredibly high he has the last name of his parents anyway.

PP verifying you, you really should have done this before you started bring in the big bucks.

The only thing I thinks a sham here is the amount of time, 180 days, hopefully that's just worst case scenario for getting it handled.

The key here is it looks like there no other party that complaining they were wronged. PP wont keep the money if it's bodis parking income for example.

 

[alien51]

utility bills are asked for to verify the home address the same as one in the PP account. Its not a "Oh your full name not on the utility bill=fail". The odds are incredibly high he has the last name of his parents anyway.

Address by itself does not necessarily equate to human identity. And besides, you are trying to authenticate someone who lives in another country, beyond the immediate reach of US law enforcement (if Paypal is concerned about fraud).

It's possible this guy is being profiled differently, because he lives in Indonesia. The same way Google Adsense profiles accounts differently in India.

 

[Tippy]

You have 9k in paypal and biz is booming yet you still live with mommy and daddy, how old are you.

 

[Dave]

This topic is all a bit too strange. $9.6k in Paypal balance and you never once withdrawn because you played too many video games whilst living with your parents yet apparently business is booming and yet you don't seem too pissed off about losing $9.6k!?

Strangest Namepros thread ever if this is legitimate..

 

[alien51]

you still live with mommy and daddy, how old are you.

I was wondering about that. LOL

But anyway, I've read a news article in CNN that many Americans have already moved-in with their parents after their unemployment benefits have dried up. Oh, recession.

 

[ngenme]

Why do I still live in my parents' house? Because renting is expensive and I am not rich enough to by my own house. Bizs went up and down. Up now, down latter. So I don't want to risk buying mortgage. I need all capital because I can't borrow money from bank.

Have I ever pulled money from paypal. Of course. A LOT and often. Most of the time I don't forget to pull out and money rarely exceed $3k-$4k.

For those who are defending paypal. I hope you're right. I do hope you're right. If you're right, I am sure this can be sorted out. I doubt that though.

Am I upset? Yes. But I found paypal alternatives. Direct payment. Save paypal fee. Paypal is useful for small businesses. After 180 days I got my money, so what. Not like I need the money quickly.

Also as a businessman, I have faced worst.

I went to a business seminar. He said the biggest difference between winners and losers are the way they behave. Losers blame. Winners learn. I want to learn.

 

[Dave_Z]

Can you not call them in the meantime? Use Skype or something similar, maybe?

 

[dezinerite]

I've been using Paypal for years too. I feel they try to do the right thing whenever they can but they have pissed me off several times already (incl. not keeping their word of "buyer protection").

Not withdrawing almost 10K to your bank account is quite shocking, esp. coz Paypal's known for freezing accounts almost whenever they feel like it. I remember going abroad on holiday once and I had to make a payment and as soon as I logged in they recorded a different IP and froze my account. They've got a cabinet full of my verification documents now.

 

[Grassman9000]

I only had one issue with paypal. For years, I would nickle and dime. Nothing more than 100$ in transactions, mostly outbound purchases for years and years. Some small money coming in. Then I hit a good business and got flooded with a lot of cash flow. starting with low xxx per week growing to mid xxxx per week.

Paypal froze my account. I called them and they asked for all kinds of documentation. I gave them alll the documentation they wanted and after their ETA I called again and it was still pending status with me losing money as I could not have my clients add to my paypal account. After the ETA I called every single day. Sometimes twice a day. I was nice about it but eventually they unlocked me and I had full access to my account

No issues since. I think if you are nice, provide all documentation your issue will be resolved. My paypal actions just triggered an automatic flag is all. they never admitted that but that was my conclusion. I am not in america either

 

[gilescoley]

I remember going abroad on holiday once and I had to make a payment and as soon as I logged in they recorded a different IP and froze my account.

That happened to me as well, and even after a verified that I made the transaction, they still wouldn't activate my account....@ssholes

 

[Sam]

I always withdraw anything over $200. Don't trust them at all one bit. If I get a big payment i immediately send to bank account.

There is 0 benefit having money in the paypal balance. Better to pay via CC and get reward points

 

[alien51]

Anyway, why don't they just ask all these documents, saliva swabs, retina scans, and dental records in the first place when you sign-up for a Paypal account ??????????

 

[ngenme]

Anyway, why don't they just ask all these documents, saliva swabs, retina scans, and dental records in the first place when you sign-up for a Paypal account ??????????

That is a very good question. One of paypal selling point is that it's widely accepted.

If they do that in front, very few will sign up to paypal. Also it doesn't make sense to ask for all those documentation from people dealing with small money.

People dealing with small money are nevertheless precious for paypal. That means they have big user bases and that increase their value compared to their competitors. Who would deal with moneybookers if they can deal with paypal?

Just look at namepros. Very few of us buy ads. We just chat, hang out. But we are precious for namepros right even though we're just freeloaders. Or look at facebook. The majority never buy ads from facebook.

What I do not understand at first is what kind of idiot believe that scanned utility bill is a proof. Well, I found that out latter too. Moneybookers, payza, also have the same problem.

Basically private sector conmpanies aren't that dumb. If they're dumb they wouldn't be big. The government regulating it is. That utility bill is requirement from government.

So cops do nothing against fraud, but they want to look busy so they make laws requiring people to do "effort". Paypal has no choice but to comply and collect those utility bills. The truth is it's pretty useless. Even if paypal knows the identity not like cops would do anything against fraud. Internet is like wild wild west. Still everybody has to look busy and look tough on crime.

I hire a specialist to unlock the account. He seems to be pretty good.

I can introduce you to him. Very good and very experienced. Not sure he clicks with my situation though.


I do NOT encourage people to stop using paypal. However, I do encourage people not to leave large balance there. It seems that having large balance increase their incentive to ban your account. They can get into trouble if somebody have large balance with them and they don't do "due" diligence. Things do go wrong in those due diligence because they demand very weak proof that proof nothing.

Hell, if I were a real fraudster, I would have filed a truly shiny utility bill and id and all would have probably been solved. But then again, if I were a fraudster, I wouldn't have had a clean no dispute records all these years do I?

 

[mis_chiff]

I hire a specialist to unlock the account. He seems to be pretty good.

I can introduce you to him. Very good and very experienced. Not sure he clicks with my situation though.

That statement sounds as shady as an eclipse...

what do you mean you hired a "specialist"
and what did this "specialist" do/provide
to get the account unlocked.

as for Utility Bills, not sure how they work
where you are, but here [Canada] they are sometimes used as an acceptable verification of address.

and with all the money you claim to make, surprised you still live at home.
You don't have to buy a mortgage, just rent...

 

[holyroller]

Was having a look round my paypal and after a while saw that I have a limit of £165,000 per month (not sure if this is a total or for specific transactions). I very much doubt the $ amount actually has anything to do with the locking of your account and paypal often lock account if someone even a few transactions down the line from you commits fraud or uses a stolen credit card etc..

I know the 180 day thing has been in Paypals TOS for years and know a few people who have been caught foul of this, although in the end they got their money back (albeit 6 months later).

Most likely paypal will have a reason for the ban/lock, but if another persons account is involved they probably won't tell you what it is.

The most I have ever had in my paypal account was around £1200, over the last 6 years my account has been frozen/locked around 5 times. Twice because they got it into their head I was a charity, even though I never claimed that, once because someone used a stolen credit card to pay for goods from someone I had made a transaction with, and twice to verify my identity. Longest time it has lasted for was around 2 weeks.

 

[alien51]

What I do not understand at first is what kind of idiot believe that scanned utility bill is a proof.

Well, that's true. Anything that is in image format these days, can be tampered with.

In fact, evenif some guy who lives in Uganda would send me an "original copy" in paper form of his Utility Bill, i wouldn't be able to authenticate if it is genuine, since i have nothing to compare against. I haven't seen a Utility Bill from Uganda before.

All i'm saying is if you are from Indonesia, it is unlikely Paypal in the US can authenticate your utility bill evenif you send the original paper copy to them.

What can be possibly done is for you to open a bank account in a reputable bank in Indonesia, and have Paypal coordinate with that bank about your identity and have the money wired to your account.

 

[ngenme]

I think the issue is that paypal simply err on their own interest.


A lot of complain with paypal resolve around paypal siding with buyers. The problem is, credit card also always side with buyers.

So if buyers buy with credit card and they dispute and paypal make the seller win, paypal will have to pay out of their own pocket.

So paypal "choose" to believe that buyers are right.

The same with 180 days. Obviously, the probability that somebody will dispute is very low. However, given that relationship is ending anyway, it's toward paypal best interest to squeeze a little interest before the ending of the relationship.

So basically if your transaction amount is low and your balance is high, paypal will make more money terminating their relationship with you and collect interests rather than collecting transaction fee. Even with 1% chance of you being fraudulent it's toward their best interest to do so.

That's why I suggest not to leave money in paypal. Everyone acts mainly out of their selfish interest.

While I am not accusing anyone of being out rightly malicious, a theory where people simply max out their interest and entertain beliefs that justify those acts would correctly predict humans behavior. Hell those theories can correctly predict virtually all religious beliefs, ideological beliefs.

As for what a specialist can do, I can't tell. I myself know 1 or 2 ways to arm twist paypal to release funds. However, it's not worth doing given that most people get their money after 180 days anyway and I don't need money that quickly.

Here are some ways:
1. Keep calling them as some suggested in this thread.
2. http://success.grownupgeek.com/index.php/2008/04/20/paypal-funds-released/
3. There are ways to actually hurt paypal some money unfairly but legally. I won't discuss that.
4. Report to attorney generals.
5. Asking those who pay me to actually dispute the payment. I think that makes me look really bad and will eliminate any chance I get my account reinstated. I wonder if I can use it as bargaining position to get that released.

Also look at zepeda vs paypal. Paypal, knowing that their factual ground is low tend to settle.

As for me living in my parents' house, it's complicated.

What do you prefer, paying another month's rent or mortgage, buying a big 42 3D tv playing diablo 3 for 3 years, or hiring another smart employee to look for more ways to make money?

If government do not socialist our life so much and effectively dictate everybody to have 1 wife and 2.5 kids, I bet everyone will be like me and all of us will live like millionaires.

Many needs, rents, formal education, living to 80, are just luxuries.

Let's keep all posts in namepros politically correct shall we?

Well, that's true. Anything that is in image format these days, can be tampered with.

In fact, evenif some guy who lives in Uganda would send me an "original copy" in paper form of his Utility Bill, i wouldn't be able to authenticate if it is genuine, since i have nothing to compare against. I haven't seen a Utility Bill from Uganda before.

All i'm saying is if you are from Indonesia, it is unlikely Paypal in the US can authenticate your utility bill evenif you send the original paper copy to them.

What can be possibly done is for you to open a bank account in a reputable bank in Indonesia, and have Paypal coordinate with that bank about your identity and have the money wired to your account.

I would suggest that to paypal (I do have a reputable bank in Indonesia) after I got my money back.

 

[holyroller]

I think the issue is that paypal simply err on their own interest.

Well PayPal is a business and in the most part will take route that either is in their best interest or limits any damage/liability to them.

 

[Domainace]

Interesting. I don't especially trust Paypal with my money, but what's with the hostility towards the OP here? Who cares if he lives with his parents? What does that have to do with anything? Does anyone here know so much about his circumstances that you can pass judgement on that alone? Are you also aware that not all cultures are so keen to kick the kids out at 18 as America?

I don't see why he has to explain his living situation to anyone, and it's a bit bizarre that some posters are so consumed with that.

 

[holyroller]

I don't see why he has to explain his living situation to anyone, and it's a bit bizarre that some posters are so consumed with that.

Very true, I have a friend in the Philippines who live with his parents and grand parents. He is married with two kids. There are four generations in one house and basically each family has a room where they and their kids all live.

Some of the responses in part are probably down to the title of the post, basically implying that if we don't withdraw money we are going to lose it all or basically to withdraw money because he has had a problem with PayPal.

 

[alien51]

I think the issue is that paypal simply err on their own interest.

Well, you have to stick with what Paypal's issue with you: INDENTITY. The rest of your conspiracy theories, cannot be solved or argued with them anyway.

I see you mentioned you haven't tried the "reputable bank" identity check yet. Try to ask explicity what "proof of identity" they want, then satisfy them all. If you satisfy them all, they are legally required to release the money to you, otherwise they are committing estafa.

I'm not sure if their "Terms and Conditions" did say that Paypal can withold or forfeit the money in your account for whatever reason (imaginary or otherwise), and they have no obligation to reveal those reasons to you. Check their terms and conditions, and see if they have that kind of language.

I once had an issue with Yahoo Domains where they cancelled my domain transfer, and they told me it's because of suspected fraud on my part. The Yahoo employee told me they cannot reveal to me exactly what the fraud was all about. After 5 phone calls talking to different Yahoo agents, one of them was able to reveal to me that the issue was i mistyped my home address and it did not match the home address on my credit card. And they called it "fraud" already. Unbelievable Yahoo. Stupid humans, i should say. They are very robotic in answering your issues by phone. Very limited human intelligence involved, something like "Hey buddy, i just work here, ok??"

5. Asking those who pay me to actually dispute the payment.

Mind if i ask, what kind of business are you in anyway that you use Paypal for customer payment?

---------- Post added at 09:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 AM ----------

Very true, I have a friend in the Philippines who live with his parents and grand parents. He is married with two kids. There are four generations in one house and basically each family has a room where they and their kids all live.

Many jobless Americans are now moving back to live with their parents these days, according to CNN.

I think what they are saying is, if you have a lot of money, it is more likely you are going to buy a house for yourself.

I think many people in Asia do live together in one roof, but basically for the reason of cutting costs. Culturally, in Asia it is more acceptable to hang out with your parents, compared with the culture in many Western countries.

 

[barefoottech]

Mind if i ask, what kind of business are you in anyway that you use Paypal for customer payment?

I don't know about the good Old USA, but in Australia (and the rest of the World) there are lots of businesses that willing accept PAYPAL.
Example:- Australia Post Billpay service allows people to pay hundreds of different bills online using Paypal.
These include bills for all types of services and products not just online purchases.

Identity Verification is needed because of the potential for Identity Fraud, A big problem online, not only with PP.

I TRUST PP more than the USA favourite method of payment.
Paper CHECKS.
Myself and most other Aussies don't accept them for anything from anyone. Too many DUD Checks. Plus checks can take 5-8 business days to clear in Australia (after depositing into a bank account, only method that is legal in australia) and foreign checks cost BIGBUCK$ to cash (Also at a bank, only place allowed to cash them).