Another Non-Paying Sedo Buyer

[Neophyte]

I am SICK and TIRED of these Sedo deadbeat buyers thinking they can get away with their foolishness with impunity. Here is my latest Sedo deadbeat buyer story:

Read the series of communication between this deadbeat and I and let me know what you think. Feel free to add this "buyer's" information to your blogs/threads.

Here is the first email I sent after getting the buyer's contact information from Sedo aver waiting several weeks for payment that was never made:

Dear Mr. XXXX:

My name is xxxx, and I am the owner of xxxx. Sedo forwarded your contact information to me because you agreed in a legally binding contract to buy xxxx.com through Sedo, and you failed to pay for the domain name. While Sedo referred you to me for potential legal action for breach of contract, it is my hope that we can come to a resolution where both parties can be happy--you get the domain name, and I will receive payment as promised.

While looking at your website, it is evident that you could benefit from my domain name. The hyphen in your current domain is really dragging down your site's value, not to mention the lost traffic from people who forget to type that hyphen into their browsers. I am confident that you will recoup the cost of my domain name easily just from the new traffic you will receive. And you don't have to build another site. Just forward this domain to your existing site to capture that traffic.

So I am convinced that you NEED this domain, and not purchasing it would be a mistake. I will work with you, as long as you pay as agreed. I can also lease the domain to you (you make monthly installment payments) if price is an issue.

I need to hear from you ASAP so we can settle this matter. Thank you for your time and attention.

XXXX response:

I think money must be the issue on your end. I have never had anyone pursue $497.00 like it was the lotto prize before. I have many customers who are used to finding me with the hyphen. I simply changed my mind on this matter. There is nothing legally binding here so I would appreciate it if you and Sedo would quit harassing me.

Mr. XXXX

My response to this, with comments:

Dear Mr. XXXX:

My position on this matter is clear. The amount of money involved is not the issue. There is a principle here, and it is unfortunate that you as a business owner do not understand this. You made a commitment to buy the domain through the Sedo marketplace. Sedo lets buyers know that any offer made on their platform is legally binding, and you should not click "buy it now" if you are not in agreement with that. There is no "I changed my mind." That is not acceptable.

You can either pay what is owed willingly, or you will be forced to pay legally. That is up to you. I will give you 24 hours from the timestamp on this email to contact me to make payment arrangements and to submit payment to me. If payment is not made within the time period specified, the next communication you will receive will be a Summons for you to appear in small claims court concerning this matter.

Please keep in mind that amount I will be seeking from the Court will be far more than $497, and will include court costs, my travel expenses to your county in NC, and other remedies allowed by law. I also reserve the right to post your name, website, and contact information identifying you as a deadbeat Sedo buyer online until payment is made. My comments regarding the email you sent me are in bold, below.


I think money must be the issue on your end. (Why wouldn't money be an issue on my end? I am in business to make money, just as you are). I have never had anyone pursue $497.00 like it was the lotto prize before. (The amount really doesn't matter. The issue is that you made a commitment to buy through Sedo and reneged on that commitment. The same thing would happen if the purchase price was $60. I have had collection agencies come after me for $25 medical bills!) I have many customers who are used to finding me with the hyphen. (This may be true, but you, not I, went on Sedo to buy xxxx.com.) I simply changed my mind on this matter. (So commitment means nothing to you? I wonder if you are so generous as you expect me to be if a buyer makes a commitment via contract to pay for furniture and then decides to change his or her mind and not pay what is owed). There is nothing legally binding here (I would suggest reading your contract again) so I would appreciate it if you and Sedo would quit harassing me.(You are responsible for paying Sedo's commission, so they may continue to contact you or take whatever action they deem necessary to collect...I have no control over this.)


Final response from XXXX:

Do what you gotta do.

These deadbeats think they can get away with this because of the cost and inconvenience involved with pursuing them through the legal system.

 

[Neophyte]

As far as I know, Google will not remove defamation or slanderous remarks that appear in the search results, unless a court orders them to do so. Or, unless one can delete the cached webpage(s).

So, are you really willing to sabotage his identity, and potentially destroy his business, over $497.00? Now think about what that says about you.

I am not defending him. Yes, he is wrong. Yes, you have every right to be upset. But posting his personal identifying information for the entire world to see is just as bad, if not worse, in my opinion.

First, I hope you have read this thread in its entirety. You have to do that to get the context of what I am saying and why I am saying it, and get an understanding of how the problem started, get Mr. xxxx responses, etc. I am not saying that you did not read it, but I would hope that anyone would do that before commenting.

I am not defaming or slandering him. I posted the unadulterated facts. I posted what he wrote...his own words. Nothing that he said was changed or altered in any way. In fact, I warned him that I may post his information, and he said "Do what you gotta do." So I did. I posted his name, name of company, website address, and two email addresses. His mailing address was provided to me by Sedo and has been removed from this thread. So I think using the terms "personal identifying information" is stretching it a bit. His Social Security Number, date of birth, home address, bank information, etc., are not posted. There's not even a phone number posted.

I cannot sabotage his identity. No one can, and for sabotaging his business, he potentially chose to do that by not honoring the contract. I have said this a million times by now. If you are asking if I am willing to expose him as a non-payer at the cost of his business, the answer is, "Absolutely!" And he is ultimately in control of whether or not this destroys his business. Should he decide to pay, then I will report as vigorously that he paid and honored the contract as I am now that he hasn't. And I am sure the mods and admin here will allow me to update the thread to reflect the issue as resolved and that Mr. xxxxx is no longer a deadbeat buyer, or even remove the thread if need be. Until he pays, it will remain, unless, once again, admin feels otherwise. The ball is in Mr. xxxxx court.

 

[Apex Domains]

Should he decide to pay, then I will report as vigorously that he paid and honored the contract as I am now that he hasn't. And I am sure the mods and admin here will allow me to update the thread to reflect the issue as resolved and that Mr. Keck is no longer a deadbeat buyer, or even remove the thread if need be. Until he pays, it will remain, unless, once again, admin feels otherwise. The ball is in Mr. Keck's court.

Don't you think that exposing him as a non-payer at the cost of his business is just a bit too immoderate?

 

[DU]

And some here have already said I suck as a domainer!

You and me both.

The world is full of deadbeats and bad domainers. Why advertise it with a thread that shows both?

I say delete this sucker and move on. :hearts:

 

[syncopy]

your right the op went after Danny like a collection agency - op could've got a deal done
instead you got no sale and a domain if you drop Danny will reg it lol

 

[briguy]

I been lurking this thread...

I cannot sabotage his identity. No one can, and for sabotaging his business, he potentially chose to do that by not honoring the contract. I have said this a million times by now.

That an interesting statement..seems that in every posting of yours, I see his name...BUT other than a forum name, I don't know yours? How is that not sabotaging his identity?

 

[equity78]

The term defamation of character is often used to describe accusations of slander, libel or both. Slander involves verbal derogatory statements, while libel involves written ones. In a court of law, the plaintiff pursuing the lawsuit would charge defamation of character to cover any form of false or damaging allegations.

Defamation of character is notoriously difficult to prove in court, although the actual effects can be quite evident and damaging. If a disgruntled customer of a restaurant tells numerous people that the head chef has AIDS, for example, sales for that restaurant could fall and the employee might lose his job or find it difficult to work. Because the customer's slanderous statement concerns a specific person and an unproven accusation, the chef may have a legitimate case of defamation of character.

The main problem with proving defamation of character is the protection of free speech guaranteed by the First Amendment. Courts generally agree that an opinion, no matter how malicious, is not the same as a stated fact. If the disgruntled customer had said "Don't eat at Joe's Cafe. I think the food is lousy and the chef is sick," then defamation of character would be difficult to prove. Other people can still form different opinions. Once the customer said "Don't eat at Joe's Cafe. I know the chef and he has AIDS," then a statement of fact has occurred and a claim of defamation of character can be pursued.

Another problem concerning defamation of character is the actual truth of the statement. Some may argue that in order for defamation of character to occur, the alleged victim actually has to have character to defame in the first place. Calling a known neighborhood bully a 'thug' in the local paper wouldn't qualify as defamation of character, because it isn't a statement against fact. The truth is, the truthfulness of the statement isn't always a factor in actual court proceedings. In our hypothetical case, the court would assume the chef does not in fact have AIDS and the defendant knew this at the time the statements were made.

Very few defamation of character lawsuits actually reach the level of a court trial. Many are settled privately, in order to avoid even more damage from publicity. Since actual damages must be demonstrated, some cases are dismissed because the statements or accusations do not rise to the level of actual slander or libel. Hurt feelings or a loss of social standing may not reach the legal definition of damages. What few defamation of character cases do reach the court system are usually local in nature, such as a city councilman suing his local newspaper for implying he accepted a bribe.

In our case of the chef and the disgruntled customer, damages could most likely be demonstrated by restaurant sales records and testimony from other customers who heard the slanderous statements firsthand. Even if medical tests revealed that the chef did indeed have a medical condition, that fact alone would not mitigate the customer's obvious malicious intent. The customer was not working in the public's best interest at the time. Under these circumstances, the court would most likely find in favor of the plaintiff and order the defendant to pay punitive damages.

This is generally the same legal mechanism which allows celebrities to successfully sue tabloid publications. A truthful but malicious statement can still be considered defamation of character under the right circumstances.

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-defamation-of-character.htm

 

[ngenme]

Someone want to buy domain for me. The domain is expiring. Sedo doesn't tell me. So I sort of agree.

When it's my turn to give the domain I found out I no longer have it and can't renew it. Bummer....

That's how I lost my sedopro account. They allow me back as sedo but then I moved on to bodis.

As for legally binding contract? How many of us click Yes I am over 18 c'mon.

You still have your domain.

I had experience sending traffic to adsense account. At that time I have huge number of chinese traffic. Google pay him $1700. My share is 70%. He simply run away.

They are worse asshole. Why chase a moderate one?

I would talk nicely. Just say that if you don't buy right away it may not be available in the future. Meanwhile park your good domain and enjoy the revenue. You can try domainapps.com

 

[Name Trader]

So we have a deadbeat buyer and a deadbeat seller in this thread who won't follow up with his initial threats to take the buyer to the small claims court. This is a remedy which is open to the seller but he appears to be refusing to activate. But which he threatened the buyer with, on page 1 of this thread. So, although the seller has my sympathy in his protestations, he loses them because he won't follow through with the one thing he threatened the seller he would do. They're both deadbeats, imho.

 

[Neophyte]

So we have a deadbeat buyer and a deadbeat seller in this thread who won't follow up with his initial threats to take the buyer to the small claims court. This is a remedy which is open to the seller but he appears to be refusing to activate. But which he threatened the buyer with, on page 1 of this thread. So, although the seller has my sympathy in his protestations, he loses them because he won't follow through with the one thing he threatened the seller he would do. They're both deadbeats, imho.

Some of you guys kill me! Yes, you mentioned what was said on page 1 of the thread, but what about pages 2,3,4, and 5? Nobody wants to use legal action as their first avenue to solve a dispute. I made a mistake in that regard, and I apologized in this thread to Mr.XXXXX for that. Why don't you read the ENTIRE THREAD before being so quick to criticize? If everyone did that, it would be very difficult for you to come up with excuses for this guy. The bottom line is that Mr, XXXX agreed to a contract and reneged. I am well within my rights to name and shame, post his name and website on this forum so that others can be warned, or seek legal action, as I see fit. I have not taken legal action off the table, actually. "Name and shame" is being done first. So your labeling me a deadbeat is presumptuous. No final decision has been made yet.

I just wonder how may domainers who said I was "slandering" Mr. XXXX will now come forward and say you are "slandering" me for calling me a deadbeat, when nothing could be further from the truth.

And for some of you bleeding-heart domainers who feel that my exposing Mr.XXXXX for what he did, and stating the facts is slandering him, and how dare I call him out and cause damage to his business, and that at all costs, the offender should be protected, not the offended, and if you are that concerned about saving his reputation and his business, then put your money where your mouths are. You buy the domain name from me and push it to him, if you are really all that concerned. My objective is to sell and get paid, and it is nothing personal against Mr.XXXXX, So you pay the money and I will drop this issue just like I would if he paid the money. I wonder how many of you will be willing to step up and do that? No it is easier and cheaper to come on here and criticize me, when, as a fellow domainer, you should be supporting me.

And Stub, since you are so concerned about my reputation and you want to make sure I follow through with my threat to sue, so I won't make every domainer on Namepros look bad, then I can start a legal fund and you can contribute to it! You are no fool. You know that it is not very cost effective for me to go after someone for $497, unless I have a lot of help.So again, put your money where your mouth is! If you are unwilling to do that, then just don't say anything, lest you are perceived as being ignorant.

 

[Apex Domains]

It's one thing to expose a scammer, but to think that you can do the same for someone who changed his mind about purchasing a domain is unacceptable.

You are blackmailing him by telling him if he doesn't purchase the domain name from you, you won't remove this thread.

Until he pays, it will remain, unless, once again, admin feels otherwise. The ball is in Mr. Keck's court.

Black´mail`ing
n. 1. The act or practice of extorting money by exciting fears of injury other than bodily harm, as injury to reputation

 

[Neophyte]

It's one thing to expose a scammer, but to think that you can do the same for someone who changed his mind about purchasing a domain is unacceptable.

You are blackmailing him by telling him if he doesn't purchase the domain name from you, you won't remove this thread.


Black´mail`ing
n. 1. The act or practice of extorting money by exciting fears of injury other than bodily harm, as injury to reputation

Yeah, but you failed to look up extorting, which is the key to the whole thing. Here is the definition of extorting:

....a criminal offense of unlawfully obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion.


1. Mr. xxxxx willfully agreed to buy the domain name and I had the legal right to sell it to him.
2. Mr. xxxxx was not coerced by anyone to click the "buy it now" button.
3. Mr. xxxxx was informed by Sedo that the agreement to buy the domain was legally binding, and he chose to disregard that.
4. Mr. xxxxx can still decide not to pay for the domain (which he has done), even though this thread is posted. He is not being forced to do anything.

5. Don't you think the Namepros admin are monitoring this thread and if they felt some sort of blackmailing was going on that they could remove this thread or cite me for breaking the rules? I am sure that they wouldn't want to be a part of my great "shakedown" of Mr. xxxxx. Namepros, not I, has the ultimate authority as to whether this thread remains or not which I acknowledged in the part that YOU QUOTED!

6. You may not like my "name and shame" tactic. So be it, but to say that I am committing a crime for saying, "Pay for what you committed to purchase, and I will remove the negative references to you being a deadbeat buyer in this thread or remove the thread once the domain is paid for" is no more blackmail than if the credit card company says to me, "If you make a payment by 5pm tonight we will remove that 30-day late ding on your credit report, if you don't, the ding stays." Why is it not blackmail? Because I, just like that credit card company, am legally entitled to that money. The buyer "changing his mind" does not absolve him from the legal responsibility. I am entitled to get paid for the domain. Now if I said, "If you pay me $500 and I will remove the thread," and NOT OFFER THE DOMAIN, then that may indeed be blackmail. So please get your facts straight.

IDIOT!

 

[DU]

I want to sue namepros for my time on this thread.... and for all my legal bills and per diem for room and board ....

If you threaten with legal action I would recommend using a lawyer who actually understands your legal position....threatening with a non defensible position gets answers like....(Edit: I just looked and Sedo changed it's terms in the last 2 years)

Whatever...or
Do what us gotta do...

Any negative responses using my name will be considered slander and I will sue your a$$ in a court of my choosing!

( there is one valid point in there somewhere I'm sure)

---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 PM ----------

1. Mr. Keck willfully agreed to buy the domain name and I had the legal right to sell it to him.
2. Mr. Keck was not coerced by anyone to click the "buy it now" button.
3. Mr. Keck was informed by Sedo that the agreement to buy the domain was legally binding, and he chose to disregard that.
4. Mr. Keck can still decide not to pay for the domain, even thought this thread is posted. He is not being forced to do anything.
5. Don't you think the Namepros admin are monitoring this thread and if they felt some sort of blackmailing was going on that they could remove this thread or cite me for breaking the rules?

The remedy for this is through the legal process.
You're following the rules of the worlds oldest copout - that two wrongs somehow might make a right.

 

[Ms Domainer]

*

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect buyers to follow through on their commitments/contracts.

If after reasonable attempts to remind the buyer and they still don't honor their contracts, then it's reasonable to pursue the matter in court or, if unfeasible, name and shame online--albeit in a professional manner.

Just the facts, no emotional sideshow.

It does surprise me that so many of you on this thread are blaming the victim and not the perp and are so willing to give the wrongdoer the benefit of the doubt, even when the evidence seems to indicate that he's a total jerk who has thumbed his nose at OP and even mocked him.

Scratching my head in disbelief.

*

 

[JB Lions]

"It does surprise me that so many of you on this thread are blaming the victim and not the perp and are so willing to give the wrongdoer the benefit of the doubt, even when the evidence seems to indicate that he's a total jerk who has thumbed his nose at OP and even mocked him."

Some in this thread probably have done the same thing as Danny.

 

[equity78]

Naming and Shaming in the Name Game http://no_url_shorteners/10PuG62

 

[umask077]

It does surprise me that so many of you on this thread are blaming the victim and not the perp and are so willing to give the wrongdoer the benefit of the doubt, even when the evidence seems to indicate that he's a total jerk who has thumbed his nose at OP and even mocked him.

Scratching my head in disbelief.

*

He's not being blamed for what he defends.He's being blamed for his approach to this issue.

 

[Ms Domainer]

It's one thing to expose a scammer, but to think that you can do the same for someone who changed his mind about purchasing a domain is unacceptable.

You are blackmailing him by telling him if he doesn't purchase the domain name from you, you won't remove this thread.


Black´mail`ing
n. 1. The act or practice of extorting money by exciting fears of injury other than bodily harm, as injury to reputation

*

No blackmail here.

OP followed through and exposed the "buyer" with the truth via naming and shaming; he did not hold the buyer's feet to the fire--he just wanted his rightful money, and when it wasn't forthcoming, he simply exposed a deadbeat buyer.

Blackmail involves person A who procures, often illegally, negative information about person B for the sole purpose of "selling" it back to person A. There is no contract between Person A and B; technically, person B owes nothing to person A.

Blackmail is illegal; insisting on one's fair compensation is not.

In this case, OP had a contract with the buyer in which the buyer--LEGALLY--owes money to OP.

It is not at all unacceptable to expose deadbeats.

In this case, the "buyer," through his actions, deserves his lousy reputation.

*

 

[Neophyte]

*

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect buyers to follow through on their commitments/contracts.

If after reasonable attempts to remind the buyer and they still don't honor their contracts, then it's reasonable to pursue the matter in court or, if unfeasible, name and shame online--albeit in a professional manner.

Just the facts, no emotional sideshow.

It does surprise me that so many of you on this thread are blaming the victim and not the perp and are so willing to give the wrongdoer the benefit of the doubt, even when the evidence seems to indicate that he's a total jerk who has thumbed his nose at OP and even mocked him.

Scratching my head in disbelief.

*

Thank GOD the lights are on in somebody's house! (...and I know there are others)

I never said that I handled this transaction perfectly, and there is much I have learned about the softer side of negotiations by starting, and participating in, this thread. But to endure this incessant name calling--now they want to call me a deadbeat and a blackmailer--is crazy. But I am still here, taking the abuse and shooting down every senseless defense these domainers have of this deadbeat buyer and exposing these idiotic attacks against my own character. Keep it coming, if they must, because it only exposes their own lunacy. Something good will come from this, because the exposure of this buyer will ultimately make everyone's job of selling domains easier, because buyers will know there is real risk involved in committing to buying domains and not paying for them beyond the legal route, which most non-payers laugh at, because it is so costly and inconvenient to actually sue someone. Naming and shaming can be done, and even if Mr, xxxxx never pays me a penny for the domain, I bet he will think twice about backing out of another contract! That's good news for any business Mr. xxxxx deals with in the future.

 

[JB Lions]

He's not being blamed for what he defends.He's being blamed for his approach to this issue.

The only approach you've offered in this thread it legal/take it to court. Which isn't feasible for most people and these amounts. So why would you have a problem with this? This is an avenue people have. It's what he chose to do. Stuff like this as well:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/carolina-discount-furniture-high-point-2

You make use of the tools available to you.

 

[umask077]

The only approach you've offered in this thread it legal/take it to court. Which isn't feasible for most people and these amounts. So why would you have a problem with this? This is an avenue people have. It's what he chose to do. Stuff like this as well:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/carolina-discount-furniture-high-point-2

You make use of the tools available to you.

You didn't even read my posts,I didn't suggest him to take legal actions over the seller (I made it clear why this was not a feasible approach).The only approach I offered him was to forget about the sale and move on.And that's what most people would do in these circumstances.

The site you share is about reviews,I don't see anyone in there publishing personal data or email correspondence.And even if there was someone taking the same approach as the OP in there,you're backed up by anonymity.The OP has exposed himself here and what he's done constitute a legally punishable offence.

And that's only the legal view of it.There's also a moral view.

Why don't you talk to a lawyer and ask him about what I'm saying.

 

[Kate]

It's one thing to expose a scammer, but to think that you can do the same for someone who changed his mind about purchasing a domain is unacceptable.

No, he just didn't 'change his mind'.
Everybody has the right to change their mind, but not when you enter a legally binding transaction.

Unless and where permitted by law.
When and where a cooling off period is applicable, the buyer must make use of that right within a certain time frame in order to free himself from the obligations arising from the contract.
It's been weeks and not a word from Mr DK. Therefore the contract remains valid and enforceable.

 

[JB Lions]

you didn't even read my posts,i didn't suggest him to take legal actions over the seller (i made it clear why this was not a feasible approach).the only approach i offered him was to forget about the sale and move on.and that's what most people would do in these circumstances.

The site you share is about reviews,i don't see anyone in there publishing personal data or email correspondence.and even if there was someone taking the same approach as the op in there,you're backed up by anonymity.

Why don't you talk to a lawyer and ask him about what i'm saying.

That's how I read the bold.

i think the ones that have no clue how to behave in business relationships are people like you who defend the actions of the op.when there's a breach of contract or a dispute,there's only one way to proceed if you call yourself a business man,and this brings you through the legal path.
that's what a business man would do,what a business man would never do is to open a thread in a public forum,sharing all sort of personal info. (including email correspondence).

The site you share is about reviews,i don't see anyone in there publishing personal data or email correspondence.

There is email correspondence posted, scroll down, I see 10 emails posted
http://www.yelp.com/biz/carolina-discount-furniture-high-point-2

Somebody was asking about shipping charges, one of his replies was "Play your games elsewhere."

It's also now Page 1 Google for his name.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dan...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

[umask077]

That part in bold was part of a message to another user (talking about a general approach in these cases).

Why don't you quote the message that follows that one? :D

What Danny Keck did was unprofessional,he breached contract by non paying for the domain.But he was not the only one being unprofessional.
What you did is illegal and subject to legal prosecution.You could have done either of these two things:

A) Contact Sedo in order to sort things out... or even ask them to ban him from using its marketplace (delete his account).

B) Hire a lawyer,bring him to court and ask for damages. (Not a feasible option since the amount discussed here is insignificant).

But what can't be done is to publish personal data on the web.I'm telling you this because he could sue you if he really wanted.

 

[JB Lions]

Your response was to what GiftedDomains posted, talking about this case:

"Meanwhile i think even much sadder than danny boy are all these self acclaimed "domainers" who obviously have no clue how one should behave in business relationships and now even defend this guy one way or another.

Just shows once again that the domain "biz" is full of ...... "

You responded with the suggestion bolded above by me. You followed the bolded with:

"that's what a business man would do,what a business man would never do is to open a thread in a public forum,sharing all sort of personal info. (including email correspondence). "

So yes, you did suggest it. I see your other quote were you said it wasn't feasible. Right, that's why you can do things like this.

 

[umask077]

That's how I read the bold.

There is email correspondence posted, scroll down, I see 10 emails posted
http://www.yelp.com/biz/carolina-discount-furniture-high-point-2

Somebody was asking about shipping charges, one of his replies was "Play your games elsewhere."

So what...?Just because you see people sharing email correspondence in there,that doesn't mean it's legal.The BIG difference is that if any legal action is taken,the only one responsible for that would be yelp.com (in most cases due to the anonymity of its users).

If I see someone sharing my personal address,telephone number, or any other personal detail in a public forum,I'm in my right to get his ass into court and believe me... the law is in my favour.