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Another Non-Paying Sedo Buyer

Catch.Club Catch.Club
I am SICK and TIRED of these Sedo deadbeat buyers thinking they can get away with their foolishness with impunity. Here is my latest Sedo deadbeat buyer story:

Read the series of communication between this deadbeat and I and let me know what you think. Feel free to add this "buyer's" information to your blogs/threads.

Here is the first email I sent after getting the buyer's contact information from Sedo aver waiting several weeks for payment that was never made:

Dear Mr. XXXX:

My name is xxxx, and I am the owner of xxxx. Sedo forwarded your contact information to me because you agreed in a legally binding contract to buy xxxx.com through Sedo, and you failed to pay for the domain name. While Sedo referred you to me for potential legal action for breach of contract, it is my hope that we can come to a resolution where both parties can be happy--you get the domain name, and I will receive payment as promised.

While looking at your website, it is evident that you could benefit from my domain name. The hyphen in your current domain is really dragging down your site's value, not to mention the lost traffic from people who forget to type that hyphen into their browsers. I am confident that you will recoup the cost of my domain name easily just from the new traffic you will receive. And you don't have to build another site. Just forward this domain to your existing site to capture that traffic.

So I am convinced that you NEED this domain, and not purchasing it would be a mistake. I will work with you, as long as you pay as agreed. I can also lease the domain to you (you make monthly installment payments) if price is an issue.

I need to hear from you ASAP so we can settle this matter. Thank you for your time and attention.


XXXX response:

I think money must be the issue on your end. I have never had anyone pursue $497.00 like it was the lotto prize before. I have many customers who are used to finding me with the hyphen. I simply changed my mind on this matter. There is nothing legally binding here so I would appreciate it if you and Sedo would quit harassing me.

Mr. XXXX


My response to this, with comments:

Dear Mr. XXXX:

My position on this matter is clear. The amount of money involved is not the issue. There is a principle here, and it is unfortunate that you as a business owner do not understand this. You made a commitment to buy the domain through the Sedo marketplace. Sedo lets buyers know that any offer made on their platform is legally binding, and you should not click "buy it now" if you are not in agreement with that. There is no "I changed my mind." That is not acceptable.

You can either pay what is owed willingly, or you will be forced to pay legally. That is up to you. I will give you 24 hours from the timestamp on this email to contact me to make payment arrangements and to submit payment to me. If payment is not made within the time period specified, the next communication you will receive will be a Summons for you to appear in small claims court concerning this matter.

Please keep in mind that amount I will be seeking from the Court will be far more than $497, and will include court costs, my travel expenses to your county in NC, and other remedies allowed by law. I also reserve the right to post your name, website, and contact information identifying you as a deadbeat Sedo buyer online until payment is made. My comments regarding the email you sent me are in bold, below.


I think money must be the issue on your end. (Why wouldn't money be an issue on my end? I am in business to make money, just as you are). I have never had anyone pursue $497.00 like it was the lotto prize before. (The amount really doesn't matter. The issue is that you made a commitment to buy through Sedo and reneged on that commitment. The same thing would happen if the purchase price was $60. I have had collection agencies come after me for $25 medical bills!) I have many customers who are used to finding me with the hyphen. (This may be true, but you, not I, went on Sedo to buy xxxx.com.) I simply changed my mind on this matter. (So commitment means nothing to you? I wonder if you are so generous as you expect me to be if a buyer makes a commitment via contract to pay for furniture and then decides to change his or her mind and not pay what is owed). There is nothing legally binding here (I would suggest reading your contract again) so I would appreciate it if you and Sedo would quit harassing me.(You are responsible for paying Sedo's commission, so they may continue to contact you or take whatever action they deem necessary to collect...I have no control over this.)


Final response from XXXX:

Do what you gotta do.

These deadbeats think they can get away with this because of the cost and inconvenience involved with pursuing them through the legal system.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
What I find interesting about Keck's response is that he seems to genuinely believe that no binding contract exists. This leads me to wonder whether Sedo does a good enough job of emphasizing that fact.
 
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What I find interesting about Keck's response is that he seems to genuinely believe that no binding contract exists. This leads me to wonder whether Sedo does a good enough job of emphasizing that fact.

I think Sedo does. Before confirming the purchase there is a message that says the offer is binding, and if he was still unclear about it, he should have read his transfer documents.
 
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I guess at this point Kenny Dack of Carolina Premium Furniture can stop pretending to be his arch nemesis now...
Now that is funny... reminds me of a Matt Cutts vid about reverse seo.
:laugh:
take the lead and stop posting nonsense
pot meet kettle

Many pots and many kettles in this thread, unfortunatly.

Peace,
Cy
 
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Come on, K.... defenders! Read this! This is from his own website, under the tab "Return Policies." I just want to make sure you can find it, before some moron comes on here saying that I am lying on him or misquoting or slandering him. And this is NOT personal information. I quote:

"Refund, Returns and Cancellation Policies: Cancellations can be accepted within 72 hours of your original order date.

Damaged merchandise should be noted on bill of lading and refused. Said merchandise will be returned for repair or replacement at the sole disgression of the manufacturer and re-shipped at no additional cost to customer.

If you simply do not like your furniture or did not measure and it won't fit and would like to return it, the customer is responsible for original shipping charges, as well as return shipping charges, and a 30% restocking fee."

"Cancellations can be accepted within 72 hours of your original order date."

So Mr. xxxxx knows that cancellations within a 3 day window are an acceptable time frame in which to cancel, because it is one of his own business policies. So why did it take weeks for this Sedo transaction to be cancelled; while xxxxx said that Sedo was sending him 2-3 emails a day and he was being harassed by them? Why didn't xxxx just call or email Sedo to cancel? If he had followed his own rules and cancelled within 3 days, then I would NOT have made this an issue. I have already stated why I started this thread, so go back to Page 1 if you need to. These are not the words of some poor individual who knows nothing about contracts.
 
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Has it occurred to you that perhaps you don't have a legitimate point? First you accused me of blackmailing the guy and I (and at least one other person) told you it wasn't blackmail, then you dropped that. Now you picked up this crap about that other person said about me posting his PERSONAL INFORMATION, which I have already refuted. His business information is posted. Again, read the thread before you rush to judgment. You are going for idiot to the 2nd power! Amazing!

And so what if he an individual? So am I. I am not the big bully business coming after him. Being an individual does not absolve one from the contract. You are trying to defend what cannot logically be defended, and you will never do a good job of it.

You said that he doesn't deserve all this attention, yet you wrote these long dissertations about how wrong I am, how I am blackmailing him, and how Keck is just a little baby who knows nothing about domains and he meant no harm and I am out to ruin his business and I am posting his personal information and.....it is so SICKENING!

Like I said earlier, if you care that much then YOU pay the $497 for the domain and give it to him. Problem solved. Then we can all move on to other things. But you won't do that, will you? You are the one giving him the attention by writing the dissertations! It makes sense for me to write dissertations because I was wronged, then I have to defend myself from people like you. But how have you been hurt by this? If you want the issue to die, take the lead and stop posting nonsense.

You haven't refuted anything.You posted PERSONAL INFO and everybody has seen it.
You published his HOME ADDRESS --and I know that because it was different from the address published in keck's site.As stated earlier,he's not a domainer and he surely doesn't know how to perform a whois,he surely is unaware that his address can be accessible via whois -- and then you did the same with his PERSONAL EMAIL ADDRESS

Business email address (which is public) : info (at) carolina-discountfurniture.com
Personal email address (which is private): keckdanny (at) yahoo.com

Privacy laws are very strict and although they may differ from one country to another,I can assure you that what you've posted is strictly private and subject to non disclosure with anyone else.
You talk about whois records.Do you know that here in Europe (where privacy laws are even more strict),domain forums and any other related sites prevent users from posting info contained in the whois records (because it's illegal)?
Yes,whois records are apparently public but that doesn't mean you can share that info with everybody else on the internet.But you know what,you are the expert.You are the lawyer and you probably know more than me lol
With that nickname,I won't even try it.
 
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You haven't refuted anything.You posted PERSONAL INFO and everybody has seen it.
You published his personal address --and I know that because it was different from the address published in keck's site.As stated earlier,he's not a domainer and he surely doesn't know how to perform a whois,he surely is unaware that his address can be accessible via whois -- and then you did the same with his personal email address.

Business email address (which is public) : info (at) carolina-discountfurniture.com
Personal email address (which is private): keckdanny (at) yahoo.com

Privacy laws are very strict and although they may differ from one country to another,I can assure you that what you've posted is strictly private and subject to non disclosure with anyone else.
You talk about whois records.Do you know that here in Europe (where privacy laws are even more strict),domain forums and any other related sites prevent users from posting info contained in the whois records (because it's illegal)?
Yes,whois records are apparently public but that doesn't mean you can share that info with everybody else on the internet.But you know what,you are the expert.You are the lawyer and you probably know more than me lol
With that nickname,I won't even try it.

Keep on stepping in it, the one who said that I had posted his personal data, and I had to go back and remove most of it, when the truth was I removed one thing, the address, and that was questionable. You have no credibility whatsoever. Now you are admitting the truth that it was just the address. And you know, because the address on his site was different from the one posted, right? Maybe in your country in Europe a business cannot possibly have more than one address, but that is not the case here in the US. And unless you went to both addresses to confirm one was home and one was business, how do you know? I sure don't! But since I was not sure, I chose to remove it anyway.

And how do you know that he cannot perform a Whois search? I don't know that! Just because he is not a domainer doesn't mean that he does not know about whois.

And how do you know that the yahoo email address is personal? I cannot assume that it is, and neither should you. He used that address as the administrative contact for his domain, which means that that address is open to business correspondence. I know that if I want to keep an email address private, I would not use it as my whois contact email, and this is a man who has been in business 25 years, not a newbie. Keck should come after you for thinking of him as someone who is totally inept.

You seem to know a lot about Mr. xxxx and his addresses! Now if you are being p......shhh, shhh, don't say it! That might be construed as slander!
 
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You haven't refuted anything.You posted PERSONAL INFO and everybody has seen it.
You published his personal address --and I know that because it was different from the address published in keck's site.As stated earlier,he's not a domainer and he surely doesn't know how to perform a whois,he surely is unaware that his address can be accessible via whois -- and then you did the same with his personal email address.

Business email address (which is public) : info (at) carolina-discountfurniture.com
Personal email address (which is private): keckdanny (at) yahoo.com

Privacy laws are very strict and although they may differ from one country to another,I can assure you that what you've posted is strictly private and subject to non disclosure with anyone else.
You talk about whois records.Do you know that here in Europe (where privacy laws are even more strict),domain forums and any other related sites prevent users from posting info contained in the whois records (because it's illegal)?
Yes,whois records are apparently public but that doesn't mean you can share that info with everybody else on the internet.But you know what,you are the expert.You are the lawyer and you probably know more than me lol
With that nickname,I won't even try it.

*

Both parties are in the U.S., so what applies in Europe is irrelevant.


*
 
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Dave_Z

Electrifying GuyTop Member
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390
Privacy laws are very strict and although they may differ from one country to another,I can assure you that what you've posted is strictly private and subject to non disclosure with anyone else.

Under whose privacy laws, though? Unless the OP chooses to honor those laws from another country, the only ones that matter are those in his/her jurisdiction.
 
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Under whose privacy laws, though? Unless the OP chooses to honor those laws from another country, the only ones that matter are those in his/her jurisdiction.

I'm pretty sure that the US privacy laws cover the protection of this type of info.What if I go to another forum and post there your home address so anyone can visit you at your home.Does it seem right to you?
 
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You know, some of these lovely, sensible, intelligent domainers, will stop at nothing to try to question my integrity and support the buyer, and that is fine, because I will stop at nothing to call them out as liars when they are lying and expose them as not being very intelligent. It's not that they are presenting an opposite viewpoint that can be constructive or instructive, they are attacking, stretching the truth, falsely accusing, making up reasons, etc. It is sad, really.
 
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Most of these guys don't know what a whois is.Most of these guys think that the data they enter when registering a domain name will remain private.He's not from the IT department.So of course the address used as the administrative email address is his personal address lol.
 
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Dave_Z

Electrifying GuyTop Member
Impact
390
I'm pretty sure that the US privacy laws cover the protection of this type of info.What if I go to another forum and post there your personal address so anyone can visit you at your home.Does it seem right to you?

So far I haven't had any luck finding a specific law or legal decision involving this scenario, but kindly share if you know one. I'm also aware that one may not agree with my personal ideas of right and wrong, which is why I (try to) carefully reveal only what I'm willing to reveal.

Unlike a real-life conversation, I got plenty of time to think long and hard what information to share and keep to myself as well as those I can trust.
 
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Most of these guys don't know what a whois is.Most of these guys think that the data they enter when registering a domain name will remain private.He's not from the IT department.So of course the address used as the administrative email address is his personal address lol.

"What most of these guys know," has nothing to do with the specific case of Mr. xxxx. What he knows or doesn't know is the point. So based on the reasons you gave above, you KNOW that it is his personal email. Wow!

Go buy a domain, or sell a domain. This thread is a little too advanced for your intellect. It actually requires people to think, not make rash judgments with few or no facts, as you have done in several posts today.
 
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DU

Secret SantaTop Member
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17,905
Man, you need to give it up. First I did not use Melbourne It Ltd.'s whois service to get the information.
They are the registrar of record so you did.

Second, a business relationship (based on domains) had been established between the buyer and I, so I can't use the Whois database the to see what domains Mr. Keck owns and to make contact if needed?
Sure you can. But we're talking about sharing their information on a forum with the label "deadbeat", aren't we?

Judging from this, it would be wrong for me to get information from their whois database to send emails to end users, and a lot of domainers do that to sell domains.
A lot of people smoke pot...and speed.. and lots of other things too that aren't quite "legal" (everywhere)

Yes, a lot of domainers illegally spam people based on whois. Luckily most recipients hit ignore or send a simple reply - they don't publish all your private information all over a thread:

I can imagine it would be distressing to some if someone would post something like:

Michaela Jonson of [email protected] in Richmond is a SPAMMER and sends unsolicited emails for crap domain names I would never want on a social network. Think about that.

And again, I did not use Melbourne to do the look up. Feel free to publish the policies of the hundreds of other registrars out there if you like. Have fun!
I'll just use the pertinent one, thanks very much.



Dave Zan,

It's older but covers what people are looking for:

http://www.rbs2.com/email.htm

Basically you can share the emails as long as you're not doing anything illegal which you aren't.

That said, the buyer information is shared by Sedo with you for the purposes of legal remedy. What is being doneis not legal remedy but vindictive and vengeful. Sure this is within he OPs right. But perhaps this may change Sedo's willingness to share the information in the future - their reputation is being sullied in this thread just as much as the non-payer (though they don't give a crap about much worse criticism elsewhere).

Back To Nohbdyduzitbett (erexceptAPissedOffPengiun)

But back to the point. As far as actual losses that you are entitled to? Your actual losses are nearly nothing (you still own the underlying asset). You have the asset listed at $479. if you sell the name at that price your losses are $0 - if the name drops then perhaps your losses are the full amount. People back out of transaction like house sale contracts all the time and usually nothing happens (loss of earnest deposit) in part because the damages have to be related to the actual losses - i.e. you lose a contingency house etc. There's far less fuss than this stupid thread about deals in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

But here's where you have crossed the line. In labelling the guy a deadbeat. You are don't know the circumstances related to other debts he may, or may not, owe. Is this his first non-payment? Did he just suddently hit on an unexpected expense? (granted in this instance you ask proactively for considerations).

You don’t know that he fails to pay all of his debts, just yours... so the term deadbeat is an over-reaching derogatory term. Labeling him as "a person who failed to pay" is not the same thing as a "deadbeat". The debtor does have rights (try calling him after 8pm for example). An aggressive creditor (which you are now) can be sued for slander etc. when derogatory terms are used because it's over aggressive, and potentially emotionally distressing (but it never happens and you can take advantage of that just like he taking advantage of no lawsuits for failure to pay...oh, the irony).

The best course of action for someone feeling spiteful would be to file something to a credit agency or sell the debt on to a collection agency and not publish a damning post on a public forum. In terms of collection agencies (which you kind of are in this situation) going about collecting a debt by labeling someone a deadbead or a criminal, and threatening lawsuits, disrupting their business are all considered extreme conduct. it's not blackmail but in a court your actions are threatening to his livelihood.

This is why we have debt collection agencies- they know the rules and have the time and you don't. For $500 they wouldn't do it because it's not worth it (a sign you should move on).

A better course would have simply been to send a simple request and take the high road. If you felt the need to "out" the guy you can do it in more professional terms. No one would think twice if you had a post stating simple facts.

Mr X Failed to complete a transaction on Y for $Z a failure to fulfil a contract.

Would that not achieve what is needed? In your mind not - you are creating a view of his person on the basis of derogatory terms and private emails. You want to make him look like shit. I don't know why.. to get $500 or make your penis feel bigger or something? I don't know.

Frankly, it says way more about you than you think.

Furthermore, the main problem with threads like this is that it brings out the lynch mob mentality and people get confidence in crowds. So much for everyone here who wants to improve the domainer reputation - we want respect, we're investors, we're just capitalists etc. etc.. we're misunderstood.. but then we have threads where in unison we yell our contempt if you cross us by daring to change your mind.

The reality is that everyone relies on someone's good will at one time or another and karma tends to the what comes around goes around. I hope that the next time you get in a situation where you can't meet an obligation, or someone wants a refund, or someone has a beef with you that you get treated with a little more kindness and a little less scorn. But you get the crowd riled, they all follow along and feel a unity

No one is saying that what the non-payer did is right. We all agree he is wrong. Where the difference in opinion lies is in the degree of punishment fitting the crime.

Anyone here have a kid that stole something from a shop and got caught? Were they let off? Should we start publishing their names on ThisKidIsADelinquent.com with their name?

It's all silly. The guy effed up. He didn't apologize but who knows if that was only because of the nasty mail he got?

I don't know they the heck I bothered writing this. The thread reads like a bunch of kindergartners fed up because Billy stole Bob's girlfriend and stole a kiss in the sandpit.

---------- Post added at 01:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 AM ----------

Final Note:

This is all moot anyway. Quick move to Legal Issues... and it's de-indexed (link dies at Namepros when no logged in). Nice sleight of hand Mr Moderator. Time to go update yelp and post at linkedin, facebook and Twitter :lol:
 
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Sounds like you want to give the guy a hug, make sure his feelings are ok. This isn't some kid that stole something from the store. He's a grown up, a business man. If you have no intention of buying a domain, you don't click the buy button, period. And if something came up, then you at least reach out to the seller. You don't let it slide for weeks. That's not a way to conduct business, it's not professional. Maybe all the people in this thread feeling sorry for the guy can pool their money and send him some flowers and a teddy bear.
 
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DU

Secret SantaTop Member
Impact
17,905
Sounds like you want to give the guy a hug, make sure his feelings are ok.
Which part in particular sounded that way?

And if something came up, then you at least reach out to the seller.
if it did, then yes he should - re: "you ask proactively for considerations".

Maybe all the people in this thread feeling sorry for the guy can pool their money and send him some flowers and a teddy bear.
Who and where does anyone indicate they feel sorry for him?

The guy's an a$$hole, imho. I feel bad for the op because he lost out on payment. Furthermore, I feel sorry for him because he's quickly managed to make himself needlessly look spiteful and ill willed to at least 50% of the people in this thread.

Hope it was worth it.

Feel better now that we cleared that up ? :):xf.love:
 
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"Which part in particular sounded that way?"

Oh I don't know, goodness, karma, good will...... I could just quote the whole thing.

The other stuff you posted sounds like what somebody would say that was hired trying to shut him up, intimidate him into not talking. Throwing around words like slander and distress. A lot of that reminds me of what adware companies tried to do to affiliates when they spoke out against their software interfering with their business, stealing etc. Of course affiliates bounded together on that one, they didn't take shots at those speaking out against it.
 
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DU

Secret SantaTop Member
Impact
17,905
Oh I don't know, goodness, karma, good will...... I could just quote the whole thing.
That's more caring about your own feelings and giving yourself a metaphorical hug than caring one iota about the other person.

It's not good to fixate on external issues. Control what you can control... imho.

The other stuff you posted sounds like what somebody would say that was hired trying to shut him up, intimidate him into not talking. .

You're blinded by what you want to see - which appears to be some level of contempt I reserve for much greater crimes.

I'm merely saying that metered methods would be better. OPs reputation is being made by this thread more than his target : none of us will deal with the furniture guy ever.. more likely he will want to do some deal with someone here. If that deal goes wrong will you get shamed?

It's easier to be a bully when your pulpit has a personal cheerleading corps...... I think the non-payer looks like an a$$hole to everyone here.. the problem is that for no real possible benefit to anyone (ignoring all that Rick Schwartz lets call everyone out and it will the RNHJ and UDRP abuse etc. etc. will end bullshit). On second thoughts, I'm sure this thread will make everyone thing twice about not paying at Sedo and I have to think greater good don't I?

Reality check: the op is making himself look like an a$$hole to many people as well - I just asked if it was worth it.

You don't have much skin in the game so go ahead .. cheer him on... at the end of the day I guess it would be more productive to rub two shits together and try and make fire than actually give damn about actually caring for OPs reputation.

I'd rather be known as forgiving than a spiteful bastard every day of the week.

Anyway - .. I think my point is clear.. and I just don't care anymore... off to go make fire...

---------- Post added at 03:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 AM ----------

Tag Freeze:
businessman expert, carolinadiscountfurniture, danny keck, irrelevant is funnier, its not indextags, relevant tags please, spilled milk thread, two shit firestorm
 
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alien51

Take Me To Your LeaderTop Member
Impact
1,337
I think the ultimate bottomline to put an end to this issue, was spelled out by buyer Keck himself: "Do what you must do".

If you need to sue, do it. Otherwise, this will just be an endless soap opera. Contracts are made to be broken, that's why they invented legal options to fix what becomes broken.
 
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Man, there are some weird arguments made by both sides in this thread:

We must realize that Mr. X is not a domainer - therefore, there is no reason to publicize his info and proclaim him as a dead-beat buyer for the entire world to know.

You make it sound as if it is an excuse that he is not a domainer. The issue here is whether Mr X understood that he broke a legally binding contract. Even if he has never purchased a domain before, he has certainly made online purchases before, so he knows that clicking "buy now" carries with it financial commitment. That he has such knowledge is further evidenced by his own return policies.

I agree that "deadbeat" is not an optimal term. The correct term is non-paying buyer (NPB), which is a well-known problem on eBay, where they have particular mechanisms for dealing with such buyers.

If we created a single thread that displayed personal information belonging to all individuals/businesses who have not honored their contract(s), including VERBAL contracts, there would be no end to it.

Actually there is already such a thread about domainers sending unsolicited emails, which has several times stepped over the line in publicising personal information. I tried to speak out against that practice last year, and as far as I can recall, not one person agreed with me. So why all the moral outrage now? And before you start arguing that sending unsolicited emails is much worse than not honouring contracts: 1) several of the people named in that thread did not appear to be spammers but just newbies or similar, 2) on the merits I would argue that breaking a contract is worse, because it has (potential) financial ramifications. I also believe the justice system would agree with me.

Having said that, I support that personal information should not be published. But what about business info (i.e. let's pretend no personal info was ever published in this thread)? Do people think it is wrong to publish the name of the responsible business and its personal director too?

because until payment has been sent, then the domain hasn't really been sold.

This is simply not correct. When the buyer clicks "buy now", the product is sold. This act places a number of obligations on both parties, inter alia the seller is legally prevented from selling non-generic commodities to someone else. However, what you say may have consequences for the award of damages, because if the commodity has not changed hands, it may be argued that the seller has not suffered a loss, which is a condition for damages.

if you are that concerned about saving his reputation and his business, then put your money where your mouths are. You buy the domain name from me and push it to him, if you are really all that concerned. My objective is to sell and get paid, and it is nothing personal against Mr. X, So you pay the money and I will drop this issue just like I would if he paid the money.

This is completely off the mark, and I have defended you so far. Are you saying that in order to be entitled to criticize your practices, people should have to pay you money?

As far as I can tell this thread is about:
1) whether it is wrong and/or should have negative consequences to break a purchase agreement.
2) whether publicizing information about an NPB is justified as such a consequence.

These are questions that are relevant to many people on NamePros, and you need to accept difference of opinion. After all, you invited the discussion by starting this thread.

Interesting thread, though :imho:
 
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NPer

Very Allergic to CURRYTop Member
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5,887
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You threatened to take the buyer to the small claims court. But now you are refusing to do so. I can understand why. But that's not the issue. You threatened. The buyer said "go ahead" in so many words. But you refuse to do so. That makes you a deadbeat seller. You can pontificate all you like about him clicking on the Buy Now button entered him into a legally binding contract. But it's only legally binding if you follow through and take him to court. No court action, and the buyer walks.

I'm actually on your side with this. But if you don't take him to court, all you can do is shame him. Which is getting really boring having you repeat yourself, over and over again.

And you can forget about me contributing to any fund to relieve you of some of the costs you might incur. It's not my fight. You got yourself into this mess. So you get yourself out.

You mentioned Rick Swartz in a previous post. Now he would have had this guy in court in a heartbeat. Despite any costs involved. That's where principal stands.



---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 PM ----------

Making a mountain out of a molehill is an idiom referring to over-reactive, histrionic behaviour where a person makes too much of a minor issue. It seems to have come into existence in the 16th century.
[emphasis added]
source wikipedia


Histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a personality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive emotionality and attention-seeking, including an excessive need for approval and inappropriately seductive behavior, usually beginning in early adulthood.
[emphasis added]
source wikipedia

I'm guessing you are young..

I'm more and more thinking this defines the seller in this case.
 
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There is a difference between privacy and respectfully not publicizing something. Do business owners have a legal right to private e-mail addresses? Don't think so, especially if they are used in any public manner. Also, public records vary by state. Many states make business licenses, incorporations, officers, etc. public knowledge; just look it up or ask (like vehicles: Fill out a request for a license plate, and you'll get the owner's info. Not getting into a right/wrong debate, just that currently the "private" info is probably public.

Although the cat's out of the bag here already, there's always the normal business complaint avenues to follow: File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and/or other professional organizations he belongs to. But do it respectfully and honestly. Outside of court and this mess, those are good options.
 
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Man, there are some weird arguments made by both sides in this thread:



You make it sound as if it is an excuse that he is not a domainer. The issue here is whether Keck understood that he broke a legally binding contract. Even if he has never purchased a domain before, he has certainly made online purchases before, so he knows that clicking "buy now" carries with it financial commitment. That he has such knowledge is further evidenced by his own return policies.

I agree that "deadbeat" is not an optimal term. The correct term is non-paying buyer (NPB), which is a well-known problem on eBay, where they have particular mechanisms for dealing with such buyers.



Actually there is already such a thread about domainers sending unsolicited emails, which has several times stepped over the line in publicising personal information. I tried to speak out against that practice last year, and as far as I can recall, not one person agreed with me. So why all the moral outrage now? And before you start arguing that sending unsolicited emails is much worse than not honouring contracts: 1) several of the people named in that thread did not appear to be spammers but just newbies or similar, 2) on the merits I would argue that breaking a contract is worse, because it has (potential) financial ramifications. I also believe the justice system would agree with me.

Having said that, I support that personal information should not be published. But what about business info (i.e. let's pretend no personal info was ever published in this thread)? Do people think it is wrong to publish the name of the responsible business and its personal director too?



This is simply not correct. When the buyer clicks "buy now", the product is sold. This act places a number of obligations on both parties, inter alia the seller is legally prevented from selling non-generic commodities to someone else. However, what you say may have consequences for the award of damages, because if the commodity has not changed hands, it may be argued that the seller has not suffered a loss, which is a condition for damages.



This is completely off the mark, and I have defended you so far. Are you saying that in order to be entitled to criticize your practices, people should have to pay you money?

As far as I can tell this thread is about:
1) whether it is wrong and/or should have negative consequences to break a purchase agreement.
2) whether publicizing information about an NPB is justified as such a consequence.

These are questions that are relevant to many people on NamePros, and you need to accept difference of opinion. After all, you invited the discussion by starting this thread.

Interesting thread, though :imho:


Just to clarify: I am not after anyone's money. I only want the buyer's money. You've read the postings. I don't have a problem accepting a difference of opinion. But most of what has been presented have been distortions of the truth or utter lies, not a legitimate difference of opinion. Their opinions should stand on their own merits. If they have to embellish it (...you are blackmailing him) or (you posted most of his personal information and then went back and deleted it), when no personal information was posted, then their points are invalid and they should be called on it.

Now as far as the money thing goes, I know that they are not going to pay for the domain on his behalf, nor do I expect them to. I said that to bottom-line it..for the shock value. If they support him that much and want to protect him from me attacking his business, then they can buy the domain. My point was yeah...they may be concerned, but not that concerned. They certainly can support him with their dollars; even buy some furniture, they are not going to do that. Talk is cheap and criticizing me is cheap. That is the point I am making. Hope this helps.

---------- Post added at 09:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 AM ----------

Update: Mr. Keck and I are communicating, and I hope we can resolve our differences or agree to disagree. I will keep you posted.

---------- Post added at 10:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 AM ----------

Mr. Keck and I have reached an agreement, and he made a partial payment on the domain name. He will pay the remaining balance over time. Therefore, Mr, Keck is NOT a deadbeat buyer and I now consider the issue resolved.

To the mods/admin...since the issue is resolved, please feel free to modify/remove this thread as you see fit.

Thank you to those who replied, and to Namepros for allowing me to have a voice in this matter!
 
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