ATTN REGISTRARS! it.com domain sunrise starts on Jan 2nd! GET READY NOW

Another Non-Paying Sedo Buyer

Catch.Club Catch.Club
I am SICK and TIRED of these Sedo deadbeat buyers thinking they can get away with their foolishness with impunity. Here is my latest Sedo deadbeat buyer story:

Read the series of communication between this deadbeat and I and let me know what you think. Feel free to add this "buyer's" information to your blogs/threads.

Here is the first email I sent after getting the buyer's contact information from Sedo aver waiting several weeks for payment that was never made:

Dear Mr. XXXX:

My name is xxxx, and I am the owner of xxxx. Sedo forwarded your contact information to me because you agreed in a legally binding contract to buy xxxx.com through Sedo, and you failed to pay for the domain name. While Sedo referred you to me for potential legal action for breach of contract, it is my hope that we can come to a resolution where both parties can be happy--you get the domain name, and I will receive payment as promised.

While looking at your website, it is evident that you could benefit from my domain name. The hyphen in your current domain is really dragging down your site's value, not to mention the lost traffic from people who forget to type that hyphen into their browsers. I am confident that you will recoup the cost of my domain name easily just from the new traffic you will receive. And you don't have to build another site. Just forward this domain to your existing site to capture that traffic.

So I am convinced that you NEED this domain, and not purchasing it would be a mistake. I will work with you, as long as you pay as agreed. I can also lease the domain to you (you make monthly installment payments) if price is an issue.

I need to hear from you ASAP so we can settle this matter. Thank you for your time and attention.


XXXX response:

I think money must be the issue on your end. I have never had anyone pursue $497.00 like it was the lotto prize before. I have many customers who are used to finding me with the hyphen. I simply changed my mind on this matter. There is nothing legally binding here so I would appreciate it if you and Sedo would quit harassing me.

Mr. XXXX


My response to this, with comments:

Dear Mr. XXXX:

My position on this matter is clear. The amount of money involved is not the issue. There is a principle here, and it is unfortunate that you as a business owner do not understand this. You made a commitment to buy the domain through the Sedo marketplace. Sedo lets buyers know that any offer made on their platform is legally binding, and you should not click "buy it now" if you are not in agreement with that. There is no "I changed my mind." That is not acceptable.

You can either pay what is owed willingly, or you will be forced to pay legally. That is up to you. I will give you 24 hours from the timestamp on this email to contact me to make payment arrangements and to submit payment to me. If payment is not made within the time period specified, the next communication you will receive will be a Summons for you to appear in small claims court concerning this matter.

Please keep in mind that amount I will be seeking from the Court will be far more than $497, and will include court costs, my travel expenses to your county in NC, and other remedies allowed by law. I also reserve the right to post your name, website, and contact information identifying you as a deadbeat Sedo buyer online until payment is made. My comments regarding the email you sent me are in bold, below.


I think money must be the issue on your end. (Why wouldn't money be an issue on my end? I am in business to make money, just as you are). I have never had anyone pursue $497.00 like it was the lotto prize before. (The amount really doesn't matter. The issue is that you made a commitment to buy through Sedo and reneged on that commitment. The same thing would happen if the purchase price was $60. I have had collection agencies come after me for $25 medical bills!) I have many customers who are used to finding me with the hyphen. (This may be true, but you, not I, went on Sedo to buy xxxx.com.) I simply changed my mind on this matter. (So commitment means nothing to you? I wonder if you are so generous as you expect me to be if a buyer makes a commitment via contract to pay for furniture and then decides to change his or her mind and not pay what is owed). There is nothing legally binding here (I would suggest reading your contract again) so I would appreciate it if you and Sedo would quit harassing me.(You are responsible for paying Sedo's commission, so they may continue to contact you or take whatever action they deem necessary to collect...I have no control over this.)


Final response from XXXX:

Do what you gotta do.

These deadbeats think they can get away with this because of the cost and inconvenience involved with pursuing them through the legal system.
 
Last edited:
0
•••
The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
*

The buyer's business info is NOT private. He's a business person who has a very public business address. By creating and maintaining a business, he is courting the limelight, at least on a local level, and, basically, his right to privacy is limited.

He's a public figure, pure and simple. And the libel/privacy laws in the U.S. are applied differently for private and public figures, and it is very difficult for public figures to win libel/privacy suits.

Not impossible, but unlikely.

In this case, the truth is the best defense, and if OP has all his documents in place, the truth would win out.

What's more, in this specific instance, any "moral" argument is definitely on the side of the seller.

:lol:

I cannot give much credence to the "moral" rights of deadbeats who fail to live up to their obligations.

*
 
0
•••
*

The buyer's business info is NOT private. He's a business person who has a very public business address. By creating and maintaining a business, he is courting the limelight, at least on a local level, and, basically, his right to privacy is limited.

He's a public figure, pure and simple. And the libel/privacy laws in the U.S. are applied differently for private and public figures, and it is very difficult for public figures to win libel/privacy suits.

Not impossible, but unlikely.

In this case, the truth is the best defense, and if OP has all his documents in place, the truth would win out.

What's more, in this specific instance, any "moral" argument is definitely on the side of the seller.

:lol:

I cannot give much credence to the "moral" rights of deadbeats who fail to live up to their obligations.

*

The OP has edited his first message and deleted most of the personal data he initially posted.The business address is public but that was not the kind of info he initially published.
And in regards to the email correspondence,you can't publish it unless you have the approval of the other part.
 
0
•••
The OP has edited his first message and deleted most of the personal data he initially posted.The business address is public but that was not the kind of info he initially published.
And in regards to the email correspondence,you can't publish it unless you have the approval of the other part.

It's actually not so cut and dry and it might vary by state. You can search and find different answers on this, here's one:

"Unless you had a prior agreement for confidentiality, or someone else holds a copyright of the materials in question, you are legally free to publish either public or private conversation on your website."

I'm sure you find some saying different. If you want to know for sure, contact a lawyer or mjnels. It's why a lot of companies put some type of disclosure on all their correspondence.

I don't think he took any action on the person who posted those 10 emails on Yelp, for some of the same reasons given in this thread. Is it feasible? Does he have a case? He is the one that didn't pay after hitting that buy button.
 
Last edited:
0
•••
And in regards to the email correspondence,you can't publish it unless you have the approval of the other part.

*

This is true.

But he can quote short passages from it and paraphrase the rest of the email message.

And should the situation go to court (and it's not likely), the emails can be used as evidence.

*
 
0
•••
The OP has edited his first message and deleted most of the personal data he initially posted.The business address is public but that was not the kind of info he initially published.
And in regards to the email correspondence,you can't publish it unless you have the approval of the other part.

If you are not going to be honest, at least be fair. ...he edited most of the personal data he initially posted. That is a LIE and you need to stop lying. What I edited out was an address, since it was unclear if that was a home or business address. Everything else was left intact. The admin here can confirm that. That hardly qualifies as ''most of the personal data." And what is posted is hardly personal. His name, business name, business WEB address, not street address, city, and two email address hardly qualifies as "personal information." His middle name, SSN, date of birth, age, home address, and telephone number(s) are not posted and never were.

And I did have the approval of the other party. Go back to page 1 of this thread, and actually read my first posting. When he flipped me of the first time, I wrote back and said that naming and shaming would be an option. He said "Do what you gotta do." So to me, that is giving me permission to post his emails, which have not been edited in any way and reflect his true feelings about the transaction.

And I can name and shame because he, in essence, owes me money, unless Sedo and I release him from that obligation. Sedo did, I didn't. I have heard of companies resorting to registering domain names such as JohnDoeDoesntPayHisBills.com and the like to deal with non-payers. Some go to Facebook and Twitter to shame the non-payer. Why? Because it can be just as effective as a lawsuit at little or no cost.
 
Last edited:
0
•••
The OP could have done it in a different way,he could have left a bad review under yelp.com or any other similar site describing the facts (adding the name of the business and the business web site).There's no need to include private data.
 
0
•••
The OP could have done it in a different way,he could have left a bad review under yelp.com or any other similar site describing the facts (adding the name of the business and the business web site).There's no need to include private data.

Well, he decided to do it this way. This involved domains, this is a domain forum. Yelp is for something different, more consumer oriented. I can't understand why you seem so anti-nohbdyduzitbett, just because he used a method you don't like? That's his business.
 
Last edited:
0
•••
If you are not going to be honest, at least be fair. ...he edited most of the personal data he initially posted. That is a LIE and you need to stop lying. What I edited out was an address, since it was unclear if that was a home or business address. Everything else was left intact. The admin here can confirm that. That hardly qualifies as ''most of the personal data." And what is posted is hardly personal. His name, business name, business WEB address, not street address, and two email address hardly qualifies as "personal information." His middle name, date of birth, age, home address, and telephone number(s) are not posted and never were.

And I did have the approval of the other party. Go back to page 1 of this thread, and actually read my first posting. When he flipped me of the first time, I wrote back and said that naming and shaming would be an option. He said "Do what you gotta do." So to me, that is giving me permission to post his emails, which have not been edited in any way and reflect his true feelings about the transaction.

And I can name and shame because he, in essence, owes me money, unless Sedo and I release him from that obligation. Sedo did, I didn't. I have heard of companies resorting to registering domain names such as JohnDoeDoesntPayHisBills.com and the like to deal with non-payers. Some go to Facebook and Twitter to shame the non-payer. Why? Because it can be just as effective as a lawsuit at little or no cost.

You published his personal address (not the business address) and his personal email address.That is PRIVATE and you can't post it wherever you want.

And that is the end of the discussion,at least on my end.You want to think that what you did was right.OK.
 
Last edited:
0
•••

DU

Secret SantaTop Member
Impact
17,905
silly person is like 2 years old already.

*yawn*

though I guess it's still a break from all the loud whining...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
1
•••
Well, he decided to do it this way. This involved domains, this is a domain forum. Yelp is for something different, more consumer oriented. I can't understand why you seem so anti-nohbdyduzitbett, just because he used a method you don't like? That's his business.

No problem with that,he can post it here if he wants.I would be ok with that.It's just that I don't like what he's done,there was no need to publish personal data to warn people from this person.
 
Last edited:
0
•••

DU

Secret SantaTop Member
Impact
17,905
I guess at this point Kenny Dack of Carolina Premium Furniture can stop pretending to be his arch nemesis now...
 
1
•••
You published his personal address (not the business address) and his personal email address.That is PRIVATE and you can post where ever you want.

And that is the end of the discussion,at least on my end.You want to think that what you did was right.OK.

So how do you know it was his personal address? I sure as hell didn't know! Did you go there to find out? No, you just wanted to have something to say, didn't know any facts, and I have exposed you for being dishonest..trying to stack the deck in your favor.

You didn't say, "He removed the address," instead, you said "He removed most of the personal data." That means more than one thing, if you didn't already know that. Now you want to end the discussion and back up in your corner, where you should have stayed in the first place until your facts were together.

And, to take this one step further, you said I published his personal email address. Have you heard of Whois? If not, look it up. Because when you check the whois record for carolina-discountfurniture.com, you will clearly see that the ADMIN email address for his domain name is [email protected]. So how do you know it is his personal email, unless you are really him? Since it is a business and the email address is attached to his business, then why can't I publish it?
 
Last edited:
0
•••

DU

Secret SantaTop Member
Impact
17,905
Have you heard of Whois? If not, look it up. Because when you check the whois record for carolina-discountfurniture.com, you will clearly see that the ADMIN email address for his domain name is [email protected]. So how do you know it is his personal email, unless you are really him? Since it is a business and the email address is attached to his business, then why can't I publish it?

I never heard of whois so I looked it up as you suggested:

The WHOIS database is operated by Melbourne IT Ltd ('we', 'our' or 'us'). Your access to, and use of, our WHOIS database and the information made available on our WHOIS database is subject to these Terms of Use and our Privacy Policy. All information contained in our WHOIS database is provided 'as is'. We take no responsibility for any error or omission in our WHOIS database. The data in our WHOIS database is provided to you for your information only. You may use the information in our WHOIS database only for the purpose of obtaining information about or related to a domain name registration record ('Permitted Purpose'). You agree not to use high-volume, automated electronic processes to access or query our WHOIS database. By submitting a WHOIS query to us, you agree that you will only use the data obtained from a WHOIS query for the Permitted Purpose and for lawful purposes, and that you will not: (a) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass, unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations by e-mail, telephone, or facsimile; or (b) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes that send queries or data to the systems of any Registry Operator or ICANN-Accredited registrar, except as reasonably necessary to register domain names or modify existing domain name registrations. You also agree that the copying, reproduction, translation, compilation, re-packaging, dissemination or other use of the data in our WHOIS database is prohibited without our prior written consent. We reserve the right to terminate your access to our WHOIS database at any time, and for any reason, including (without limitation) if you fail to comply with any provision of these Terms of Use, or we consider that you are excessively querying our WHOIS database. These Terms of Use may be modified by us at any time without notice by our amending the Terms of Use on this web page. You agree that your use of our WHOIS database following any modification to these Terms of Use will constitute your acceptance of these Terms of Use (as modified from time to time).

I took it out of context a little (and added this as the deleting master?) but you get the point that it's not intended to allow you to setup his id as a spam target.
 
0
•••

equity78

Top Member
TheDomains Staff
TLDInvestors.com
Impact
26,609
Yeah John go try telling that to Domain Tools which makes a fortune using repackaged whois information.
 
0
•••
QUOTE from DU: "I never heard of whois so I looked it up as you suggested:"

Man, you need to give it up. First I did not use Melbourne It Ltd.'s whois service to get the information.

Second, a business relationship (based on domains) had been established between the buyer and I, so I can't use the Whois database the to see what domains Mr. xxxx owns and to make contact if needed?

Judging from this, it would be wrong for me to get information from their whois database to send emails to end users, and a lot of domainers do that to sell domains.

So going to Whois to confirm that the email address posted was not necessarily personal, and when there there is a business relationship established is hardly abusing their service.

And again, I did not use Melbourne to do the look up. Feel free to publish the policies of the hundreds of other registrars out there if you like. Have fun!
 
Last edited:
0
•••

WGS_Thunder

certified domainiacTop Member
Impact
409
*

The buyer's business info is NOT private. He's a business person who has a very public business address. By creating and maintaining a business, he is courting the limelight, at least on a local level, and, basically, his right to privacy is limited.

He's a public figure, pure and simple. And the libel/privacy laws in the U.S. are applied differently for private and public figures, and it is very difficult for public figures to win libel/privacy suits.

Not impossible, but unlikely.

In this case, the truth is the best defense, and if OP has all his documents in place, the truth would win out.

What's more, in this specific instance, any "moral" argument is definitely on the side of the seller.

:lol:

I cannot give much credence to the "moral" rights of deadbeats who fail to live up to their obligations.

*
In this case, the truth is the best defense, and if OP has all his documents in place, the truth would win out.

You have way too much faith in the corrupt "justice" system. Money can get you almost any verdict you want
 
0
•••
No, he just didn't 'change his mind'.
Everybody has the right to change their mind, but not when you enter a legally binding transaction.

Even after you have entered a legally binding transaction, you can still technically change your mind - nobody can take away your free will. However, you will most likely have to face legal ramifications as a result of breaking the contract. Law is law; rules are rules.

We must realize that Mr. Keck is not a domainer - therefore, there is no reason to publicize his info and proclaim him as a dead-beat buyer for the entire world to know. If we created a single thread that displayed personal information belonging to all individuals/businesses who have not honored their contract(s), including VERBAL contracts, there would be no end to it.

What you are doing would have been acceptable if you were trying to protect other domainers within the domain community from him, which is not the case here. Mr. Keck does not buy domains for a living. I hope that most people would not care that Mr. Keck did not honor his contract with you. That information is only for Mr. Keck, you, and other involved legal authorities to know about.

Although you want to:
make everyone's job of selling domains easier, because buyers will know there is real risk involved in committing to buying domains and not paying for them beyond the legal route, which most non-payers laugh at, because it is so costly and inconvenient to actually sue someone. Naming and shaming can be done


There is no real risk involved in committing to buying domains and not paying for them beyond the legal route. Do you want to really show non-paying buyers that there is real risk involved? Then the legal route is the only way to enforce ground rules for this kind of behavior and to set a precedent.
As DU put it nicely,

The remedy for this is through the legal process. You're following the rules of the worlds oldest copout - that two wrongs somehow might make a right.

What you are doing is wrong. If you are unwilling to pursue this matter in court because of costs, forget about this and move on. You could have already sold this domain with the amount of time and energy you've devoted to this debate.

In my eyes, I see you as a individual who is willing to sabotage a buyer's identity and business for $497. Conversely, you could say that the buyer is the one who is sabotaging his identity and business because he chooses to dishonor his contract. If you side with the latter, ask yourself this: whose decision was it to publicize this issue instead of just moving on?
 
3
•••
What you are doing is wrong.

*

Sigh...

What tipsy topsy world we live in when bad behavior is accepted and contracts mean nothing.

So sad.

*
 
0
•••
"If we created a single thread that displayed personal information belonging to all individuals/businesses who have not honored their contract(s), including VERBAL contracts, there would be no end to it."

That was a suggestion I had earlier. It works. Better than continually bending over and accepting it. If somebody is screwing somebody over, that's the exact behavior they like. Let me give you a side example (mod can remove if they want) The affiliate marketing industry, some people/merchants, straight unethical. You out them - http://www.abestweb.com/forums/unethical-merchants-470/

Unethical people, people that don't honor their contracts etc, love people like you. It seems like you're actually feeling sorry for this guy.

The time to think about buying a domain is before you hit the buy button. Hitting that buy button is the decision.
 
Last edited:
2
•••

Dave_Z

Electrifying GuyTop Member
Impact
390
We must realize that Mr. Keck is not a domainer - therefore, there is no reason to publicize his info and proclaim him as a dead-beat buyer for the entire world to know.

He he, the OP has a reason, you know, even if one doesn't agree with it.

What some of you argued intrigued me, namely on revealing potentially private information of a person. I'm still checking with what time I can spare, but so far I haven't found anything considering one's contact details (i.e. mailing address, email address, etc.) as maybe sacredly private to not be revealed under any circumstances whatsoever.

Closest I found so far are cases between the U.S. government and private individuals, but nothing (yet) between two private parties. At least, those who have some material agreement between them that includes privacy of information.

Even if I find any, though, it might involve two parties in jurisdictions within one another's reach. I don't know how privacy laws in, say, California can possibly be enforced on another person living in maybe Alaska or way outside that.

Now, Sedo has an agreement with both the OP and Keck that includes how it handles their respective information. Whatever else it does (i.e. supplying one party's information to the other for pursuing a claim) depends on what's stated there.

One may feel the OP may have some kind of "moral" obligation not to reveal another person's information for any reason. Unless the OP and Keck have some kind of agreement which includes how their respective information is handled, unfortunately - and I hate to say this - the former does not have to do anything for anyone else at all.

In NamePros' case, it chooses to respect other people's (potentially) private information. Not everyone, however, has to do that unless they see fit to or laws in their areas require them to do so.

Sure, one doesn't have to like what the OP did, and I get that. That's why I said from the onset that if you don't want someone to possibly...possibly...do something against you, you try not to give that someone a reason (especially a material one) for it.

Anywho, everything's already out there. You know the (in/famous) saying: the Internet never forgets.
 
0
•••
*

Sigh...

What tipsy topsy world we live in when bad behavior is accepted and contracts mean nothing.

So sad.

*

Bad behavior should not be tolerated in most cases. And contracts allow this world to function properly most of the time. When I said that what he is doing is wrong, I was referring to the seller publicizing this problem and revealing the buyer's personal info for the entire web to see.

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------

Unethical people, people that don't honor their contracts etc, love people like you. It seems like you're actually feeling sorry for this guy.

The time to think about buying a domain is before you hit the buy button. Hitting that buy button is the decision.

Trust me, I would be very upset and slightly angered if a buyer acted in the same way that Mr. Keck did. I feel sorry for both the seller AND the buyer, though.

You seem to be missing my point. I have no problem with disclosing unfaithful business practices and making that information available on the web. However, Mr. Keck is an individual like you or me. This was probably the only time he was buying a domain name from another domainer. We don't know the true reason behind why he backed out of the deal, but posting his personal info on the web is plain wrong. He's not some merchant that does business in our industry. He's an individual who changed his mind and dishonored a contract. He does not deserve this kind of attention
 
1
•••
Why not just have a bidder pre qualified to purchase?. When the bid is won the amount is automatically deducted off the cc card?
However I believe there is a cooling off period to a contract depending on the state or country
 
2
•••

Dave_Z

Electrifying GuyTop Member
Impact
390
but posting his personal info on the web is plain wrong. He's not some merchant that does business in our industry. He's an individual who changed his mind and dishonored a contract. He does not deserve this kind of attention

If anything, that's maybe to show some degree of respect for other people or taking the so-called high road. I don't know if there is some maybe unwritten law that one can't post details of an outsider, though.

Besides, Keck (expectedly) hasn't replied since then. I guess he chose to move along and sort of live with this result.

Only time will tell how this affects (if ever) the parties involved.
 
0
•••
Bad behavior should not be tolerated in most cases. And contracts allow this world to function properly most of the time. When I said that what he is doing is wrong, I was referring to the seller publicizing this problem and revealing the buyer's personal info for the entire web to see.

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------



Trust me, I would be very upset and slightly angered if a buyer acted in the same way that Mr. Keck did. I feel sorry for both the seller AND the buyer, though.

You seem to be missing my point. I have no problem with disclosing unfaithful business practices and making that information available on the web. However, Mr. Keck is an individual like you or me. This was probably the only time he was buying a domain name from another domainer. We don't know the true reason behind why he backed out of the deal, but posting his personal info on the web is plain wrong. He's not some merchant that does business in our industry. He's an individual who changed his mind and dishonored a contract. He does not deserve this kind of attention


Has it occurred to you that perhaps you don't have a legitimate point? First you accused me of blackmailing the guy and I (and at least one other person) told you it wasn't blackmail, then you dropped that. Now you picked up this crap about that other person said about me posting his PERSONAL INFORMATION, which I have already refuted. His business information is posted. Again, read the thread before you rush to judgment. You are going for idiot to the 2nd power! Amazing!

And so what if he an individual? So am I. I am not the big bully business coming after him. Being an individual does not absolve one from the contract. You are trying to defend what cannot logically be defended, and you will never do a good job of it.

You said that he doesn't deserve all this attention, yet you wrote these long dissertations about how wrong I am, how I am blackmailing him, and how xxxx is just a little baby who knows nothing about domains and he meant no harm and I am out to ruin his business and I am posting his personal information and.....it is so SICKENING!

Like I said earlier, if you care that much then YOU pay the $497 for the domain and give it to him. Problem solved. Then we can all move on to other things. But you won't do that, will you? You are the one giving him the attention by writing the dissertations! It makes sense for me to write dissertations because I was wronged, then I have to defend myself from people like you. But how have you been hurt by this? If you want the issue to die, take the lead and stop posting nonsense.
 
Last edited:
0
•••

WGS_Thunder

certified domainiacTop Member
Impact
409
take the lead and stop posting nonsense
pot meet kettle
 
0
•••