Aged domains question

[Bob Hawkes]

I have a question that I hope someone more experienced in domain investing can provide insight on....

Very frequently I see mention in domain name sales that the domain is aged or how many years old it is, as though this is universally a good thing.

I understand completely how if the domain has been used in a website in a positive way, has received meaningful links from other websites, etc. that being aged is a plus that will make the domain more valuable.

However, what if the domain was first registered say 12 years ago, but has essentially sat parked for most or all of that period? In this case I don't see how being aged is positive, and maybe even it could be negative if an unsuccessful attempt has been made to sell the domain over years. Of course, you may have new ideas for promotion and hope to find success where others have not with the domain name, but I still don't see why per se being aged is always positive and meaningful.

Or am I missing something? Thanks for any insights.

Bob

 

[xynames]

"People want old but developed in recent times."

Developed? You mean with a website? Or are you talking about adult domains only.

If you mean that people don't want to buy domains unless they have a website I of course disagree.

 

[BionicMan]

Aged domains must still be trending -- if they aren't sold on trend, they become useless relics. Take for example a domain about floppy disk drives from 94 -- aged yes, but relevent? Maybe to extreme collector..

 

[namelancer]

Age is a funny thing. Some Investments are good when they are aged, and some Investments are good when they are new.

Correct, so the answer to the OP's question of whether aged domains are more valuable is both a YES and NO, depending on the class of a name in question.

These are categories when age(with some exceptions) is a positive factor:

1. Dictionary words;
2. EMDs, or exact match domains (e.g.'CertifiedPublicAccountant');
3. SEO-rich key-word domains;
4. Common, classic (or timeless) linguistic expressions .

These are the categories where age is generally just a number (no value added on account of the age itself):

1. Creative names that belong to a sub-category of brandables (if we consider brandables to be largely generic). They are tailor-made for the unique usage based on specialized specs. Their value lies in combination of uniqueness, cleverness and creativity capturing the essence of a business, product or service..
2. New gTLDs
3. Language expressions reflective of new trends, be it in politics, social life, or the technology sector, etc.
4. SEO- accentuated key-word domains that keep abreast of the latest in commercial, developmental, etc spheres.
5. Newly coined words being continuously added to the dictionary.

These are the borderline categories where the age may or may not be a factor,based on subjective perception/values, as well as objective factors deemed as such by the context of their historical, technological, etc. relevance:

1.Brandables in the broadest definition of the term, including generics and niche names.
2. Some Keyword domains

 

[toughdomains]

I’ve had a few potential buyers play stupid after making lowball offers, saying things like, “Oh, I figured that since you’d held on to it so long without using it I figured you didn’t want it.”

a bit off topic but somewhat related because most of my offers come from aged names
i list all my personal names on godaddy....get at least 2 offers a month on 300 names. every single offer is no higher than $250....one word names like turned.com or heated.com and Im getting $200 offers. when you counter with anything higher than 1k no reply. you have to pay an extra fee to add a min offer...what a horrible service to have to pay for...but makes me think if you ask 1000 domainers maybe 1 says yes. I use the low ball offer volume to validate which names i should keep and renew.
another story had a buyer who let his .com expire (relaized from the screenshot history of the name) offer me $50 it was over 10 years and 6 letters. he said he owned the .co.uk and just wanted to have it nice and neat in his portfolio so hence why the low offer. I paid 60 for it at auction and it looks nice and neat in my portfolio. I love to hear the reasons from people on why you should sell for peanuts..

 

[namelancer]

Made up names acquire distinctiveness through use they are not in existence at the time of creation.

If this were true, none of the Brandable Markeptplaces which specialize precisely in selling these types of names (among other, more liquid, catchy and short acronyms, or descriptive names) for hefty sums would be in existence.That is so in part because what you described above often corresponds to the very definition of a brandable, being, a name, that enters the market with a price tag set to higher aspirations at a time preceding its as of yet unfulfilled (but promised) heyday of trading or trademark glory and long before the name gets developed into or acquires distinctiveness of a brand through channels of marketing and brand awareness..

ps: Strictly from a technical point of view, your statement pertains to definition of a trademark that in itself represents an acquired value.My argument favors assignment of perceived values to names prior to the start of going through trademark process.

 

[namelancer]

Now, weird misspelled or made up names of today may acquire distinctiveness and value

So, saying that a brand new hand registered domain can be great - simply means that through use, it may acquire greatness

The above is being contradicted by the fact that esoteric and misspelled naming distortions of grammar rules command top prices from the moment of their creation as is evidenced by continuous existence of Brandable Marketplaces and namebio's sales records of said brandables.

The only difference is that unlike objectively valued aged domains, purely invented brandables possess what is known as mostly subjective value.

 

[Haris]

In the early days of the Internet almost all names were available for hand reg even names that eventually were worth millions.

It stands to reason that the longer ago the name was registered the more likely that it is a superior name. As more and more people use the internet and more and more people become involved with needing a domain name - needing it for whatever purpose - stands to reason that the names being more recently hand registered will be the dregs only. Inferior.

You’ve heard about how an infinite number of monkeys typing on an infinite numbers of typewriters will produce all the works of Shakespeare? Well as the amount of people dreaming up domain names increases it will get harder and harder to come up with any decent name that has not already been registered. What’s available to hand reg today is definitely crappy compared to many years ago.

So whether the domain has been parked or not all these years still if it was hand registered 15 years ago it came from a superior pool than what is available today.

Completely agree with you mate.

 

[namelancer]

One made up name is as good as the other, in that a company willing to take on a domain name that has no connection to what it is doing may just go with most any brandable name.

Yes, one must ask a cardinal question: what kind of names do the countless startups and thousands of businesses born out of garages weekly choose for themselves from the starting ground of corporate inception and do they hold on to the original name after surviving long enough to complete the next round of founding allowing them to afford an upgrade ? Do they at later date go for ageless classics or stick with invented and convoluted uniqueness in defiance of traditions and in keeping with a style of disruption ?

 

[xynames]

The above is being contradicted by the fact that esoteric and misspelled naming distortions of grammar rules command top prices from the moment of their creation as is evidenced by continuous existence of Brandable Marketplaces and namebio's sales records of said brandables.

The only difference is that unlike objectively valued aged domains, purely invented brandables possess what is known as mostly subjective value.

Not really, I mean
https://www.thedomains.com/2017/09/...s-cms-summit-merge-announce-domain-challenge/
is dumping thousands of these made up and misspelled names for $299. each (dropped down from initial attempt at $495. each), and they are no better or worse than some of the ones people are trying to get a few grand for. My communications with people who are selling exclusively these made up or misspelled domain names indicate that they can't make it with this sort of junk alone especially when they try to sell for more than a few hundred each - sales are so slow when trying to sell made up/misspelled domains for "top prices" that domain reg fees for the entire portfolio eat up all incoming profits.

 

[Haris]

Aged domains are better than handregs.. But it's obvious that not all aged domains are going to be great.. people registered bad domains back in the day too.

But to understand this let's look at the expiring and pending delete lists.. it's much rare that a domain registered in 1990's and early 2000s expire when compared to recent 1-2 year old domains. Sure too many domains are being registered today but why are so many of those that are registered nowadays are dropping? Because the newly registered domains are mostly of bad quality, it's a fact.

 

[xynames]

Agreed Haris, and as you imply, it isn't so much that EVERY aged domain is better than EVERY newly created domain, just that - age does matter, is a factor that does contribute to the value of a domain. And that the domains that were available to hand reg YEARS ago, tend to be higher quality than what is available to hand reg. today.

 

[atinc]

If I am the buyer

I would negotiate to reduce the price because of the age. I would say it didn't succeed let's say in the past 15 years and you are asking more than it really worths.

If I am the seller

I would ask more if it has a clean history, never used let's say in the past 15 years and would add, the age of the domain matters for SEO.

note: Never bought or sold aged domains...

 

[boker]

Aged domains are better than handregs.. But it's obvious that not all aged domains are going to be great.. people registered bad domains back in the day too.

But to understand this let's look at the expiring and pending delete lists.. it's much rare that a domain registered in 1990's and early 2000s expire when compared to recent 1-2 year old domains. Sure too many domains are being registered today but why are so many of those that are registered nowadays are dropping? Because the newly registered domains are mostly of bad quality, it's a fact.

Ok, let's take some examples. Bitcoincash was bought this year for 10$ and sold for 48k if I'm remember right, so a hand reg. Naturalbeauty, bought for 65k over 10 years ago and sold for 10k a few days ago...so the name it's important, not the age.. Also, if you check namepros or godaddy you could buy names bought over 10 years ago for 10-30$ and sometime for free, so no, the age doesn't have any value if the name is bad.

 

[boker]

Not really, I mean
https://www.thedomains.com/2017/09/...s-cms-summit-merge-announce-domain-challenge/
is dumping thousands of these made up and misspelled names for $299. each (dropped down from initial attempt at $495. each), and they are no better or worse than some of the ones people are trying to get a few grand for. My communications with people who are selling exclusively these made up or misspelled domain names indicate that they can't make it with this sort of junk alone especially when they try to sell for more than a few hundred each - sales are so slow when trying to sell made up/misspelled domains for "top prices" that domain reg fees for the entire portfolio eat up all incoming profits.

Let's take as example, MK, from Brandbucket. he sold last year around 300-400 domains, with and average price of 3k and he doesn't have any EMD's, he's dealing exclusively brandables. So, let me know how many guys you know, dealing with EMD's and aged domains who are selling more and for more money, excluding the big guys in the industry and which have invested much more and for a way longer than him.

 

[namelancer]

Aged domains are better than handregs..

Yet, are aged domains better suited as one of a kind, unique naming alternatives imbuing distinctive identity served to separate the singular from the flock of companies carrying over-tired common names ?

 

[xynames]

If I am the buyer

I would negotiate to reduce the price because of the age. I would say it didn't succeed let's say in the past 15 years and you are asking more than it really worths.

If I am the seller

I would ask more if it has a clean history, never used let's say in the past 15 years and would add, the age of the domain matters for SEO.

note: Never bought or sold aged domains...

Those are used car salesman tactics other than "the age of the domain matters for SEO" which can be true, yes, but isn't really the greatest selling point.

Better is to present the comparables for closed sales and current offerings, and reach a value based on those.

Also you are completely missing the point, by arguing that whether the domain has been used for something or not is relevant. Not necessarily. I have domains that I just sold for five figures that haven't been used for anything but PPC parking since we had registered them 13 years ago. The right buyer just hadn't come along yet.

And if you come in like this buyer:

I’ve had a few potential buyers play stupid after making lowball offers, saying things like, “Oh, I figured that since you’d held on to it so long without using it I figured you didn’t want it.”

you end up sounding like a bozo, not edifying and will not get you anywhere. Had another bozo say something like, "Well it's your fault for having held on to that domain that long" when he made another ridiculously low offer, trying to act like he should get it cheap because it had been sitting unsold all this time.


Anyway, I don't even mention the age of the domain when negotiating a sale. It doesn't occur to me to mention it. It simply remains at the back of my mind, and at some point what I might say is that this domain is superior to anything you could hand register today, which by implication means that the age matters, which - it does!

 

[namelancer]

My communications with people who are selling exclusively these made up or misspelled domain names indicate that they can't make it with this sort of junk alone especially when they try to sell for more than a few hundred each - sales are so slow when trying to sell made up/misspelled domains for "top prices" that domain reg fees for the entire portfolio eat up all incoming profits.

Two issues are found as problematic with your line of thought:

1. To condemn invented brandables to the junk field of names is to do injustice to their perceived and subjective value by under-appreciating it compared to the intrinsic and objective value of some aged domains.

2. The fact of renewals eating up the profits is not exclusive to brandables alone nor is it their fault specifically.. In other classes of names, such as aged keywords, or dictionary terms,the losses can also overwhelm the profits But here it wouldn't be the renewal fees eating the profits but acquisition costs exceeding revenues from sales/lack of them.

 

[Haris]

Ok, let's take some examples. Bitcoincash was bought this year for 10$ and sold for 48k if I'm remember right, so a hand reg. Naturalbeauty, bought for 65k over 10 years ago and sold for 10k a few days ago...so the name it's important, not the age.. Also, if you check namepros or godaddy you could buy names bought over 10 years ago for 10-30$ and sometime for free, so no, the age doesn't have any value if the name is bad.

You forgot to mention, Naturalbeauty was regged for $10 and sold for $65k

Boker you're a smart guy, I think you don't want competition at auction for aged domains

 

[namelancer]

You forgot to mention, Naturalbeauty was regged for $10 and sold for $65k

Except, when it was first registered, it wasn't perceived as aged (it became so with a passage of time) - it was still fresh and new

 

[boker]

You forgot to mention, Naturalbeauty was regged for $10 and sold for $65k

Boker you're a smart guy, I think you don't want competition at auction for aged domains

Yes, but it was not sold when it was freshly regged, when it was sold for 65k was already a few years old. My oldest name is less than 3 years old, hand regged by me, so you can't say it's aged and believe me or not, I'm not into auctions of aged names.