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Aged domains question

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Bob Hawkes

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I have a question that I hope someone more experienced in domain investing can provide insight on....

Very frequently I see mention in domain name sales that the domain is aged or how many years old it is, as though this is universally a good thing.

I understand completely how if the domain has been used in a website in a positive way, has received meaningful links from other websites, etc. that being aged is a plus that will make the domain more valuable.

However, what if the domain was first registered say 12 years ago, but has essentially sat parked for most or all of that period? In this case I don't see how being aged is positive, and maybe even it could be negative if an unsuccessful attempt has been made to sell the domain over years. Of course, you may have new ideas for promotion and hope to find success where others have not with the domain name, but I still don't see why per se being aged is always positive and meaningful.

Or am I missing something? Thanks for any insights.

Bob
 
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That's what you guys have been doing this page 1 of this thread. Picking $20-30 sales of aged domains to prove your point, while thousands of 2016 regs are dropping. :)

Besides,If the referenced domains are from the drop or expired lists, they are not truly aged. To be aged a domain must show uninterrupted ownership applicable to the time-frame qualifying it for a seniority status. To make matters worse, sometimes a change of a registrar (not to speak of a change of intermediary ownership) during history of a domain is all it takes to legally (in the eyes of the court) nullify a domain's age..
 
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What we're talking about here is when the domain was original "created" as far as its age - when the name came into existence.
 
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What we're talking about here is when the domain was original "created" as far as its age.

Yes, of course,I am aware of this. Wanted to add an extra angle.
 
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We can say that every day less than 500 domains from 1980's to 2000 drop while at the same time 30000 domains registered last year drop.

Too many people registering too many domains? Obvious but why are they dropping? Bitcoinsomething sold for $xxxxx but at thousands of domains registered at that time sold for $0.
So, the result of your data is that around 60 times more domains have dropped from 2016 comparing 1990-2000 dropped domains, but if you count the number of registrations, 1990-2000 to 2016 probably there will be more than 60 times more registered domains in 2016, so it's somehow the same.
 
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"
if you count the number of registrations, 1990-2000 to 2016 probably there will be more than 60 times more registered domains in 2016, so it's somehow the same.

"

Also based on what haris wrote:

.com's dropped in last 12 hours

Domains from 1980's - Dec 31 2000.
About 245 Domains

Then 2016 .com domains dropped in last 12 hours
About 33,137 Domains


That would mean about 500 per 24 hours for the old days, versus about 66K for the new days, which is not 60X more, but about 130X more.

I'd like to see the statistics on this. Somehow I don't think so, I don't think that 130x more names are being registered (created for the first time) today versus say fifteen years ago.
 
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So, the result of your data is that around 60 times more domains have dropped from 2016 comparing 1990-2000 dropped domains, but if you count the number of registrations, 1990-2000 to 2016 probably there will be more than 60 times more registered domains in 2016, so it's somehow the same.

@jmcc Hey buddy sorry to disturb you. If you don't mind spending some time and finding how many .com domains on average were registered per day, in 2016, I would be very thankful to you.
 
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Okay I gotta run, just got two more price inquiries / offers on two more aged domains. :xf.grin::xf.wink:
 
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Ask yourself why thousands of 2016 regs are dropping everyday while there are only a few from 1990s.

As per what you wrote:
'Okay so I did a search at Expireddomains.net

.com's dropped in last 12 hours

Domains from 1980's - Dec 31 2000.
About 245 Domains

Then 2016 .com domains dropped in last 12 hours
About 33,137 Domains'



For your information, @Haris::

Traffic on Internet backbones in U.S.. For each year shows estimated
traffic in terabytes during December of that year:

year TB/month

1990 1.0
1991 2-0
1992 4.4
1993 8.3
1994 16.3
1995 ?
1996 1,500
1997 2,500-4,000
1998 5,000-8,000
1999 10,000-16,000
2000 20,000-35,000, etc
 
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EVerything was hand registered at some point. Wassapoint of mentioning that something that was hand registered was sold for whatever later?

It's important as an indication of how much time it took for what was initially a handreg. domain to maximize (double, triple, quadruple, etc.) its market value. For example, for naturalbeauty it took several years since registration to receive confirmation from the market as to its updated value once it sold for 60's k, while for a bitcoincash the journey took just a couple of months to go from a reg. fee to 40's k..
 
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.. I still don't see why per se being aged is always positive and meaningful.

Or am I missing something? Thanks for any insights.

Bob

Age adds value. The reason is simple: Value is derived from scarcity. Age = time = money. Time is a scarce resource, so it's valuable, even the most valuable resource for many people. Time is money, money is time. Anything aged is more valuable by default unless it's a dead or extinct product (example: horse carriage, spear, telegraph). Every product has a life, is born, lives and dies like humans. Internet is still young, so age will add value to internet based products until internet dies and becomes extinct like telegraph.

Even older humans are more expensive than younger ones. Seeing a 50 years old doctor is more expensive than seeing a 35 years old doctor or an advocate, technician, accountant, etc. Because you can't revert back the time, accelerate it or stop it or slow it down. Little children want to become adult faster, want to get rid of childhood but time passes in its own speed. Elderly people miss the old days when they were child or young but they pass away like all the other previous humans. We don't control the time. We can't produce more time, can't consume it faster or slower (eg: you can't shave your beard when you are 5 years old :) ) Time is not only scarce resource but also fully out of our control. Gold supply is scarce but you can decide how much gold you will demand. Land supply is scarce but you can live in a smaller house when you have to. So time is the most valuable thing as its quantity is fully out of our control in both, supply and demand sides.


Age alone has a value. Assume beer.com is available and someone hand registered it today. It would be cheaper if it was registered today.

However, what if the domain was first registered say 12 years ago, but has essentially sat parked for most or all of that period? In this case I don't see how being aged is positive, and maybe even it could be negative if an unsuccessful attempt has been made to sell the domain over years.

Being parked or failed sales attempts in the past are not good indicators in an appraisal. Age always adds value. Because you can't turn back to the past, say, turning back to 1990's and being able to hand register 3 letter domains like sex.com. You can safely assume randomly chosen older domains are known by more people, need less promotion than randomly chosen newer domains. This is the main reason of why aged websites rank better in search results: They need search engines less as they receive more direct traffic (type-in or via browser bookmarks). Conversely search engines need aged, premium domains more than the need of aged domains for search engines. Because the search engines I know -specifically google- don't operate on good domains, so they have to provide reliable, quality search results to survive. As they aren't confident to survive merely based on search service, they added different services in addition to their initial search service. In my opinion, the reason is mostly related to bad choice (or not a perfect choice) on domain. In my opinion search.com would be a better choice than google.com if it was available to hand register.

Another striking proof: If you renew your website domain for longer 1 year in advance it ranks better in search results. I personally verified this on my own websites. Register a domain today, develop it today and renew its domain for 5 years, till 2022. By renewing its domain for 5 years, you are announcing everyone (including search engines) your site will certainly become 5 years old in 2022. Therefore your site deserves enjoying some portion of the authority of a 5 years old domain as it gives a guarantee to become a 5 years old domain.

Age isn't just a number. Even in the emerging markets of today (bitcoin, virtual reality, artificial intelligence, robotics) older domains will be always more valuable than the new ones. I saw some threads on this forum which started to buy 1+ year old crypto-bitcoin domains. Age adds value to everything you see. For instance you could buy 1 bitcoin for $1 in the past. But today you have to pay almost $6,000 for the same 1 bitcoin. Age isn't just a number. Of course everything dies after getting old enough. But internet is still young and is still growing.

Early adapters, first entrants skim the market (any market, not only internet-domain market). This rule never changes. Can you hand register 3L com's today? I remember the times when people were discussing if hand registering 4L com is a waste of money as most of 4 letters you can think of are meaningless random combinations. Now, the train missed, you can't hand register any 4L com. Is it important if your 4L com was parked or didn't sold after many attempts? No. Age is still adding value to 3L and 4L domains. 4L domains have value as they are scarce. Some smart, forward looking people saw this fact before the most people and hand registered 4L com's while it was possible. So we turned back to the beginning of this post. Value is derived from scarcity. Air is the most valuable thing to live but air has no economic value as it's not scarce. 4L or 3L is valuable as they are scarce. Being forward looking is valuable as it's scarce. Anything valuable is scarce. Age adds value until the product dies, becomes extinct, or until human can control quantity of the time.
 
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Age adds value.

Age alone has a value. Assume beer.com is available and someone hand registered it today. It would be cheaper if it was registered today.

Age isn't just a number. Even in the emerging markets of today (bitcoin, virtual reality, artificial intelligence, robotics) older domains will be always more valuable than the new ones.

Anything valuable is scarce. Age adds value until the product dies, becomes extinct, or until human can control quantity of the time.

Great points!
 
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but I still don't see why per se being aged is always positive and meaningful.

Or am I missing something? Thanks for any insights.


Prime real estate always get claimed first. It is true for both old and new trends. If you look at most valuable crypto domains that are representative of the new trend you will find the most valuable (as of now, or according to our current ability to estimate value) to be already registered (cryptonews, crypto, etc.). That is not to say, that some of the already registered but unvalued as of yet crypto names or the crypto-combinations still available for registration, would not raise in value in the future. Because we can only judge the object's true value by the current value system and today's standards. At some point in time, all domains were hand-registered. That is to say, at the moment of their original registration they were not considered to be prime (scarcity and value-wise). Since we use language as our primary mechanism of expression, it's quite natural that, once it stood clear that the internet was here to stay, dictionary words were the first to go. The rest (acronyms, EMDs, common linguistic expressions, liquid, etc.) had followed the same route. But back then far from the many had grasped the value of what they had, or else they would never have let them go. This is evident by so many stories of people regretting not holding on to their old registrations of prime names.
When an object is recognized as having value, and its supply is limited, it leads to depletion of available reserves of that product. Sometimes, scarcity precedes acknowledgement of value.However, that is not to say that all of the aged domains, once viewed as prime and valuable, would retain their value through the time despite their hypothetical future depletion and resulting scarcity. As new technologies arise and old become obsolete, it will lead to creation of many more new, language-embedded hot spots of innovation (i.e. new categories of domains), that will repeat the same circle of going through the motions of initial abundance, gradual depletion (in tact with recognition of their increasing value), and an acute scarcity stage (as the point when their value is at the peak).
Age is the ultimate judge and filter of a domain's value, adding the benefit of hindsight. All domains are created equal (except for some prime in newer extensions), in that at the time of their primal registration for a reg.fee their value is an unknown variable solved later by the flow of time and market fluctuations.
 
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Okay so I did a search at Expireddomains.net

.com's dropped in last 12 hours

Domains from 1980's - Dec 31 2000.
About 245 Domains

Then 2016 .com domains dropped in last 12 hours
About 33,137 Domains

Very interesting statistics. That implies even if we just count the domains from 2016 registration if 33137 are dropped in a 12 hr period then if constant over the year there would be about 24 million dropped each year. Which I guess is not unreasonable? Many register .com (just like the new gTLD) and then give up after they have not sold in the first year.

Thanks for the statistics!

Bob
 
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For me, as an independent webmaster-developer the best strategy is to purchase good aged domains (registered before 2000 or 2005) rather than hand registering. I developed sites (mostly wordpress, a few on drupal and forum - phpbb) on old domains and hand registered domains. I can confidently say the difference is huge between aged and brand-new domains. I even don't care the history of the old domains :) Their bad history doesn't affect almost anything (or I didn't notice any negative thing) as long as the domain and website content are relevant. I redirect the old baclinks to the homepage which ends up with 404 error, and that's it :) Search engines immediately crawl and index aged domains. In less than 10 days you start receiving free organic search traffic even if the aged domain has no backlinks. Its age alone is enough.
 
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Age alone has a value. Assume beer.com is available and someone hand registered it today. It would be cheaper if it was registered today.

Likewise, someotherdomain.dom, if it was registered today, might head in the opposite direction, becoming less valuable tomorrow. It all depends on the trajectory of the name's market value and whether the curve is bullish or bearish at any given point in time.

One can say that a domain's age settles old scores being the judge of character. It can make or break a name, but finding it out takes living to do.

It took the stream of time for 'beer(dot com) to become valuable, just it would take time for any domain registered today to pass or fail the test of time in due time.:)
 
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Age isn't just a number. Even in the emerging markets of today (bitcoin, virtual reality, artificial intelligence, robotics) older domains will be always more valuable than the new ones. I saw some threads on this forum which started to buy 1+ year old crypto-bitcoin domains.


While it's clear that when a new trend sets in, the best representing that trend gets claimed first and foremost. But the analysis of the mechanism of appropriation (i.e.registration) of domains in an emerging area, leads to discoveries that the process of acquisition is not an open and shut case as it might initially appear. Names, indicative of a new trend may owe their registration just as much to acts of pure randomness on the part of the owner as they are to a purposeful design (as in actively pursuing specific domains based on their emerging quality). Take the flying cars trend, for example. I'm sure that among the aged domains from the category there were plenty that were registered on a whim paying homage to the flight of futuristic fancy, rather than in intentional pursuit of monetary eldorado the future of those names (as bearers of revolutionary technology) embodied.

The things with trends is that they are constantly in a flux,oriented towards evolution and subject to time throwing a hat full of surprises. We have not seen the last of crypto - it'll be coming back, morphing in new technologies reincarnating under different names.
 
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Age adds value to everything you see. For instance you could buy 1 bitcoin for $1 in the past. But today you have to pay almost $6,000 for the same 1 bitcoin.

History has shown us that age can make, but it can also break.
You only have to remember the tulips :)
 
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Show me any hand reg of today that is good as beer.com , straight from the gate, worth just as much on the day it was invented through these new technologies and new terminologies.

Just as future Einsteins may still be crawling in their diapers at the time being, so are the greatest domains of the future are being registered, as we speak, already today. But we don't know it yet, in the same way we didn't know what the worth of beer.dot.com would be a few years down the line, nor do we know who (domains) they are or where they live (extensions). It takes a function of time (translated into age), for their meaning, purpose and and true values to be fully unfolded, either to their absolute maximum or minimum competences.

Yes, they may never again be a moment in history where new registrations would enjoy the privilege of being drawn directly and unfiltered from the dictionary like the iconic regs from the past, and it's also true that wont benefit from having been the property of language proper coined over millennia. It's much more likely, they'll be descended from the humblest of beginnings,propelled by human ingenuity to their heights and understood in a cultural and technological context of the time of them coming out of age.

One can't be expect them to be as good, on the date of their registration, as beer.com is of today, for the simple reason that beer.com of yesterday (on the day of its url birth), when it was straight out of the gate, had only a street value, being worth not worth not more than a registration fee. :)
 
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"People want old but developed in recent times."

Developed? You mean with a website? Or are you talking about adult domains only.

If you mean that people don't want to buy domains unless they have a website I of course disagree.

I am talking about aged domains in general but you can disagree. There are plenty of bad aged domains for sale with the only thing going for them is the age I am also guilty of renewing old crap. A good aged domain is of substantial value an aged crap domains is just old crap.

If a domain has had a website for 10 years and is terrible sounding it still has history. A domain with no website that is 10 years old doesn't is just another domain in the pool.
 
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The idea of domaining is to speculate and I can say I have seen a lot of wrongs. I have also seen trends come and go. Then there were the copy cats one name sells for thousands s everyone buys similar keywords. What was hot in 90s may not be now. Keywords like fax, Thumbs, thumbnails, AVS, mpeg, jpeg, were all hott in 90s now irrelevant. Extensions have been even sold over and over. Dot xxx domains have been on sale 3 times so there may be some hidden histories.. If there wasn't so many domains mishandled in past (fly) we might find there would have been millions more aged domains than today no class action can fix that.
 
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My view is that age is a great proxy for quality, but it doesn't actually contribute to value.

For example, a useful way to sort a list of expired domains and not have to weed through as much junk is to sort by age. Most of us probably do this, as the odds of finding a really strong domain is significantly higher if you're looking in a pool of 20-year-old domains as opposed to a pool of domains registered within the past year. But there are plenty of garbage domains in that pool of old domains.

The reasoning for this is obvious, when everything is available people will take the best domains before they take the mediocre ones. Insurance.com will be taken before CarInsurance.com which will be taken before CarInsuranceQuotes.com. I could tell you that with near 100% certainty without even looking up the WHOIS. Value directly followed age.

So there is a strong correlation between age and value, just as there is with length, number of TLDs registered, etc. But none of these factors actually determine value. Literally the only thing that determines the value of a domain name is demand; how many end users would want to buy it and how much could they afford to pay for it based on its potential uses.

If a domain like Cars.com deleted and had the creation date reset, its value would not be impacted in the slightest. Conversely, a domain like BMCOMillwork.com, which is on the current drop list and was continuously registered since 1999 has no value even though it is 18 years old. Lack of age doesn't hurt a good domain, and having age doesn't help a bad domain. Period.

Take number of TLDs registered I mentioned earlier to further this idea. If a domain is registered in every TLD odds are high that it is a good domain as there are lots of other people who see value in the SLD and would want to own it in .com. But now imagine that all of those TLDs were registered by a single person who wanted to protect their brand. Now does being registered in every TLD mean much of anything? It's possible, but the odds of it being a strong indicator of value just dropped significantly. So it doesn't determine value, it just hints at it.

Age used to be considered an SEO benefit so it might have resulted in some actual value being attributed to a domain. But I don't think that is the common belief any more, and I don't think it was ever actually a ranking factor to begin with.

So now it is just a sales tactic for the most part, a way to try and increase interest in a domain. But I have never heard of an end user telling a broker, when listing criteria for a domain and trying to come up with candidates, that they want an old domain. And I've never heard of a buyer who was interested in a specific domain walking away because they found out it wasn't old enough.
 
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For me I think the age is just one of criteria to value a domain, it add extra value if it's been aged for long time. Some people just create a domain and don't use it for any purpose. Between 2 domains, other things are the same, but one is new and one is old, then mostly people choose the older one. Do they?
 
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This is a very interesting and hot discussion.
Let us define or write specifications for some terms :
- What is a good name (or quality name) regardless of its extension ?
- The order of extensions by the value (from highest to lowest value) ?
- What is a brandable name ?
- Why domains are dropped?
- What does the buyer want?
- What does the seller want?
If we get clear and agreed answers to these questions and merge these answers together , then I think we can get a useful guide. This guide can be updated by adding more questions
Thanks.
 
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Wow, that's a topic for a book, not even a thread.
 
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Let us define or write specifications for some terms :
- What is a good name (or quality name) regardless of its extension ?
- The order of extensions by the value (from highest to lowest value) ?
- What is a brandable name ?
- Why domains are dropped?
- What does the buyer want?
- What does the seller want?

You'd have to add a few points to complete the power points:

- How is value of a domain name created and/or determined ?
- Is a high quality name always synonymous with high value?
- Can a low quality name be of a high value ?
- What does the value of a domain name correspond to, since names don't exist in a vacuum?, etc.
 
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