poll After expiry should a registrar give a domain back to the pool?

[frank-germany]

As for managing the expiry stream, each day I have to decide which domains to let go to Snapnames after the grace period. This is a very efficient process done through a single screen with some analytics.

On some days, the review involves a lot of names with really no time to research them. It is a quick gut decision of whether or not to let a name to go to the wolves or to warehouse them.

so there was a discussion going on
what a registrar should be doing when a domain drops

1) should they be allowed to keep it for their own use and exploitation?
2) should they always give it back to the pool?

 

[Name Trader]

@Rob Monster - I just cannot even imagine that GoDaddy were ever seriously considering introducing Uniregistry's CP to GoDaddy. That just blows my mind. I guess some big companies think they are just too big to fail

 

[equity78]

I do wonder why so many views only 44 votes, takes a second.

 

[equity78]

IMO once the registrant dosent pay the renewal it's like abandoned property the registrar gives an opportunity for the registrant to reclaim it by paying the renewal then its theres to deal with. Personally it dosent matter, if they had to drop it services like dropcatch would just llcatch it during the drop to either fill up the HD portfolio or to auction off. Honestly I rather see those auction proceeds to go to the registrar than to DC.

Exactly this is not 2000 - 2002, if you want the name to go through expiry, cool, many do and this has been discussed many times. GoDaddy and others lucked out ICANN never made a rule.

BUTTTT you ain't ever catching anyone good sitting there in your sweatpants looking to catch it on your own. DropCatch and NameJet are going to get the best names.

 

[Keith]

DropCatch and NameJet are going to get the best names.

So the question is -

Would you rather compete at dropcatch or namejet against other bidders, or, have a registrar hold all expired domains and demand a price to BIN?

I’m all about competing against my fellow domainers.

 

[equity78]

I ICANN stated 45 days. But how many registrars give you 45 days? GoDaddy used to give you 42 days. Fair enough. but taking days from you registrar renewal/replacement, is THEFT.

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/domain-name-renewal-expiration-faqs-2018-12-07-en

 

[equity78]

So the question is -

Would you rather compete at dropcatch or namejet against other bidders, or, have a registrar hold all expired domains and demand a price to BIN?

I’m all about competing against my fellow domainers.

I think that's fine Keith, I understand both sides of the aisle. I was agreeing with Ryan that those out there, (and there are some) who believe if every name dropped would have a chance, on good names they would not have a chance, to time the drop and handreg.

 

[equity78]

Actually, is there a clause in the registar-icann and/or registrar-verisign agreement that explicitly states that the registrar can renew the domain and keep it for themselves or auction it off? Because for example in .pl registry it's strictly prohibited to do anything like that.

However in .pl we have the sweetest thing that is called "future" (a.k.a. WLS - wait list service). Everyone can buy the "future" for a domain and if it drops, they become the new owner. No registrars keeping the domains, no dropcatching, just goes straight to the future holder. IMO it's as democratic as it gets.

Now here's a funny thing: WLS was proposed by verisign in 2002 but rejected as anti-competitive. Because, yeah, it's anti-competitive that regular people could pay $35/y* for the dream of getting their beloved domain one day if it drops. What's obviously much better is that they pay $35k to godaddy or dropcatch instead.

(*) that was the price in the original proposal, but .com prices were much higher back then, too. I think it's safe to assume that nowadays WLS would cost ~$8 just as .com does.

Here is some info https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/domain-name-renewal-expiration-faqs-2018-12-07-en

 

[7363824]

So the question is -

Would you rather compete at dropcatch or namejet against other bidders, or, have a registrar hold all expired domains and demand a price to BIN?

I’m all about competing against my fellow domainers.

The dropcatch infrastructure exists primarily for the benefit of the Huge Domains portfolio. We just get the leftovers.

 

[Keith]

The dropcatch infrastructure exists primarily for the benefit of the Huge Domains portfolio. We just get the leftovers.

How so?

I’ve placed a ton of BO there and never had them keep a domain or try any shenanigans.

 

[Rob Monster]

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/domain-name-renewal-expiration-faqs-2018-12-07-en

For folks who missed this, the grace period is entirely funded by the registrar. When it comes to .COM there is no free lunch. The registrar advances the money to the registry.

So, the folks who have thousands of expired domains idling in grace period tie up tens of thousands of dollars of the registrar's funds. It is quite common and it comes with the territory.

Innovations like NameLiquidate are disruptively reinventing the expiry stream for the benefit of registrants -- both buyers and sellers.

Anyone in this thread is welcome to show me another company that is doing more to fix the expiry stream injustice at the likes of Godaddy. I'll wait.

 

[Mister Funsky]

For folks who missed this, the grace period is entirely funded by the registrar. When it comes to .COM there is no free lunch. The registrar advances the money to the registry.

Important point.

I'm not wanting to get in the middle of this (just trying to read and learn!) but once the registrar pays for the grace period, does the registrar get part or all of that money back if they let the name drop after the expiry period (42/45 days)? Or are they on the hook for another full year of registration? Thanks for your response...back to reading!

 

[vravis9]

I just saw this thread and it is quickly became lengthy..

I was checking about my name with @Epik.com support and the agent went without answering my questions...
Reached to @Rob Monster and yet to get reply...

I believe my name is still in grace period and doesn't show up anywhere in my account...

If 45 days is universally followed rule then my name is still got lot of time.

P.S. I didn't read all content of this thread.

 

[Rob Monster]

Important point.

I'm not wanting to get in the middle of this (just trying to read and learn!) but once the registrar pays for the grace period, does the registrar get part or all of that money back if they let the name drop after the expiry period (42/45dyas)? Or are they on the hook for another full year of registration? Thanks for your response...back to reading!

'
Correct, the registrar has until Day 45 to delete the auto-renew to get a full refund of the encumbered funds on deposit at the registry. This is actually a big deal sometimes.

For example, NameSilo just sold off a bunch of BTC, raising about $822K. I think they needed the cash to fund auto-renews from all those Chinese bulk-buyers who register for $5 and then drop a year later

 

[Rob Monster]

I just saw this thread and it is quickly became lengthy..

I was checking about my name with @Epik.com support and the agent went without answering my questions...
Reached to @Rob Monster and yet to get reply...

I believe my name is still in grace period and doesn't show up anywhere in my account...

If 45 days is universally followed rule then my name is still got lot of time.

P.S. I didn't read all content of this thread.

Explained many times but here goes once more:

- Standard grace period is 15 days.

- Customers can request to be adjusted to up to 35 days.

- On day 36 we send to Snapnames

- On day 44 we send to our own Daily Diamonds

Up until Day 45, if the domain has not been delivered to a backorder customer we'll usually do a courtesy restore. If the domain was delivered to a backorder customer we may charge a restore fee.

Grace periods are a gift not an entitlement. Don't abuse it, and probably you find Epik is a pretty good place to have expired domains.

More details here:

https://epik.com/support/faq/expired-registration-recovery-policy/

As for your specific name, it is likely in Expired Names. See here. PM me or contact support and we'll see if the domain you are seeking is eligible for a courtesy restore. Odds are yes.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Explained many times but here goes once more:

- Standard grace period is 15 days.

- Customers can request to be adjusted to up to 35 days.

- On day 36 we send to Snapnames

- On day 44 we send to our own Daily Diamonds

At what day does the warehousing occur?

Also, would you be willing to provide a list of all domains Epik has warehoused, or is that an open challenge for any internet sleuth to uncover?

 

[vravis9]

Explained many times but here goes once more:

- Standard grace period is 15 days.

- Customers can request to be adjusted to up to 35 days.

- On day 36 we send to Snapnames

- On day 44 we send to our own Daily Diamonds

Up until Day 45, if the domain has not been delivered to a backorder customer we'll usually do a courtesy restore. If the domain was delivered to a backorder customer we may charge a restore fee.

Grace periods are a gift not an entitlement. Don't abuse it, and probably you find Epik is a pretty good place to have expired domains.

More details here:

https://epik.com/support/faq/expired-registration-recovery-policy/

As for your specific name, it is likely in Expired Names. See here. PM me or contact support and we'll see if the domain you are seeking is eligible for a courtesy restore. Odds are yes.

Thanks @Rob Monster

If you can restore that will be helpful...it certainly in under 35 days of expiry.

What should I do next to get it...

Thanks,
Ravi

 

[DanSanchez]

Don’t let 1% have an advantage. That’s all I’m saying.

I would argue you qualify as the 0.01% of the market Keith, you may want to rephrase this statement to..

"Let ME have an advantage over your valued, loyal, and trusted customers. That's all I'm saying."

Epik has offered you and anyone else the extended renewal period, you just haven't asked.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

DropCatch and NameJet are going to get the best names.

Given this is an understood current factor with or without having to worry about adding your registrar to the competition, why would somebody want to voluntarily add extra competition via transferring their domains they want housed and protected to a warehousing registrar?

... Further to a warehousing registrar acquiring their registrants possibly speculatory domain (which may be a seemingly metricless handreg and as such go unnoticed to DC/NJ) but the human speculatory eye of said warehousing registrar may see it, and claim it, possibly for several years, thus preventing your ability from re-registering the domain after expiration cycle if the big drop catchers don't catch it. Possibly re-registering at a coupon price, then the registrant could transfer their domain to their preferred Swiss bank of domains, for protection and an added year of renewal, a practice that has been mentioned a few times on nP.

 

[equity78]

Given this is an understood current factor with or without having to worry about adding your registrar to the competition, why would somebody want to voluntarily add extra competition via transferring their domains they want protected to a warehousing registrar?

... Further to a warehousing registrar acquiring their registrants possibly speculatory domain (which may be a seemingly metricless handreg and as such go unnoticed to DC/NJ) but the human speculatory eye of said warehousing registrar sees it, and claims it, possibly for several years, thus preventing your ability from re-registering the domain after expiration cycle if the big drop catchers don't catch it. Possibly re-registering at a coupon price, then the registrant could transfer their domain to their preferred Swiss bank of domains, for protection and an added year of renewal, a practice that has been mentioned a few times on nP.

I don't think they should want to do that if that is a concern. You will notice I did not take any side or criticize any side. I was just agreeing with Ryan that people are not getting the best names, yes a name like BC30.com would probably drop, with no one placing a backorder, LLNN.coms drop every day. So if that was your point, I agree with that.

 

[Mister Funsky]

the extended renewal period

In the beginning, I started with just a few domains at Epik. It took a while before I had a need for any 'special treatment' as far as the extended period goes. On a call to customer service I was simply sharing how bummed I was having a name get behind on renewal and shared how another registrar had raked me over the coals a couple of years before (over a name I eventually lost and was sold for 5000). I was given the grace period from that point on at Epik. I never intentionally let a name get into that shape again (it has happened a few times accidentally) and it is an awesome feeling knowing I can get my name back (usually a sub par name to begin with!) without issue. So yes, all one has to do is ask...that's how it worked for me.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I don't think they should want to do that if that is a concern.

That is my concern.

I want to house my domains at Epik. I like Epik.

I want to recommend my friends use Epik.

I don't want to recommend my friends something if I don't feel like it's in their best interest.

So now I have this concern.

 

[equity78]

That is my concern.

I want to house my domains at Epik. I like Epik.

I want to recommend my friends use Epik.

I don't want to recommend my friends something if I don't feel like it's in their best interest.

So now I have this concern.

Well @Rob Monster should try to ease your concern, I believe but this is not fact BC30.com was many years ago and today stuff would go to NameLiquidate.com.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Well @Rob Monster should try to ease your concern

I have a lot of concerns, and I have no doubt Rob will individually help if I ask.

It's the trickle down to the uninformed or for the times I find it difficult to reach out for help, that I look out for.

 

[wwwweb]

That is called DEFAMATION. You use the word "Theft". It is a word that describes a CRIME. However, there was no crime. That makes you a FALSE ACCUSER. You see how that works.

Here is the transaction history on the domain:

Show attachment 146522

There are receipts with email time stamps for each one.

No apology needed. You were already forgiven. Best of luck.

I am glad this topic has finally been laid to rest, running whois searches back in the day, I instantly knew from that email how high value that client is they probably owned over 100 3L.com's back in the day, not to sure anymore, but they had a very valuable portfolio.

I can understand his anger in losing that backorder to that extended renewal, but it wasn't that deep of grace like 30+ days, many domainers use 25-30 days to renew their domains, so I can see a client like that maybe making the most of their grace period if it was given to them, fair game. Those kind of backorders are a gamble, but not to many things come with money back guarantees, so if that was me, and I had a valuable name, and I was about 19 days late, out of a 45 day allowable grace renewal window, I would appreciate my register extending me that courtesy, and looking out for me.

Now the basis of this thread really has nothing to do with the registers, they are playing within the rules as outlined, they didn't set the rules, they are simply running businesses in a tight margin industry within those parameters, the people to attack, or confront, are the ones that make those rules.

You can't tell me that if anyone of us ran a registry, and if we had the choice to keep an expired domain after the grace period in our own inventory, or let it go so dropcatch can make $xxxx off it, we would not go with door #1 everytime. I would say a good majority would do the same thing as most operators out there are doing, some are selling the names, and keeping the funds, others are maybe warehousing them, pretty much the same thing, why keep attacking 1 company, when pretty much all are doing the same thing.

 

[Rob Monster]

That is my concern.

I want to house my domains at Epik. I like Epik.

I want to recommend my friends use Epik.

I don't want to recommend my friends something if I don't feel like it's in their best interest.

So now I have this concern.

The concern should be looked at through the lens of "Do unto others".

So, here are some of the ways that monitoring the expiry stream has bailed out actual customers many times:

- Customer's email was not working or they overlooked the emails

- Customer had a health event or personal crisis.

- Customer saved payment method for auto-renew failed.

- etc.


For any number of reasons, domains drop, sometimes inadvertently.

In the case of a warehoused name, there is a good chance that the domain is recoverable.

Think of it like a guardian angel or airbag. It has saved a lot of folks' bacon.

Every now and then we got a sale. It hurt nobody.

And now we have NameLiquidate.com so anyone can monetize their own expiry stream and indeed if they don't it is simply because they could not be bothered.