discuss [Resolved] Domainer Loses $26k On A Stolen Domain!

[Silentptnr]

Darn! Another scam and this time it is an experienced domainer James Booth.

James must have thought he was making a sound acquisition as he transferred approximately 26k to escrow for CQD.com. Instead, after completing the escrow, the domain was taken from his account by the registrar without notification and returned to the "true" owner.

Turns out the person that sold him the domain CQD.com, may not have been the true owner.

Apparently this incident involves several parties including the registrar and the escrow.


Thanks to Theo over at DomainGang for the tip on this.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

Rebecca seems business savvy, knowledgeable about websites, knowledgeable about domain auction platforms (she had listed the domain) and more. I don't think she is stupid.

There are clearly two camps on the matter.
1)Take it to court
2)Do what is ethically right should the evidence dictate.

I want you to know if you were the victim of a theft and asked for our help here I would never blame you for a mistake, tell you you should have been more secure or use your experience against you.

I would help you, it is not your fault.

 

[DNWon]

What I find interesting is the total lack of response from @Jackson Elsegood from Escrow.com?

He hasn't even been here since January, 11th unless he's viewing from another account?

I find the lack of any statement at all from Escrow.com on this, quite troublesome, and quite telling!

I know some will say, it's a legal matter and they can't say anything. And others will say, they did their job, moving money from one party to another. But he should at least say something, even if it's just that.

But if that's the standard this industry holds Escrow companies too, this industry is deeply flawed!

 

[MapleDots]

This is an interesting case study and discussion, but this thread should in no way be construed as a court.

Very good advice

 

[Silentptnr]

We usually perform due diligence to be sure our money won't get stolen.

In this case, James did just that. He made sure that when he paid 25k for a domain, he got the domain.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

If someone buys a used car from a private party, how often do you think the buyer asks to see the ID of the seller to match to the title? The title is all you need.

In my opinion it is the buyer's responsibility to protect their money.

In this case, James did that. He didn't get scammed. He made sure that when he paid, he got the domain.

We usually perform due diligence to be sure our money won't get stolen.

1) This not a car, it is a domain a domain with whois history, a domain broker especially is capable of due diligence. A simple history look up showed me the email change, Booth could have noticed that change too.

2)The buyer could have the ability to protect their money (due diligence)

3)Lastly, how can you say James didn't get scammed, we don;t know that or did he post that escrow screen shot?

 

[DNWon]

We usually perform due diligence to be sure our money won't get stolen.

But it did get stolen!

 

[Silentptnr]

Look, maybe because I am from LA, I have a different mindset. Here, you better protect your sh*t or someone will take/steal it....guaranteed.

If a domain name is hacked and stolen, it is not the fault of the registrant...IF....the registrant has taken all proper steps to manage and protect their domain.

If it is proven in court, then by all means, the court's decision should be accepted or appealed. However, I just don't agree that ethically James should just surrender his property. Suspected stolen or not. Without a court carefully considering evidence and ordering the domain transferred.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

We can debate this all day but in the end it either goes to the courts/legal system or the two parties can reach an agreement where Booth is convinced it was stolen and returns it or not.

Have a good day folks and don't ever let anyone blame you for being a victim, buyer or seller.

 

[spoiltrider]

interestingly enough, i now have a telephone number that will most likely be linked to the person(s) responsible for this disaster. its a san jose ca area #. it is a land line. i have a name. i am adding this info to my FBI report.
the name on the phone number might be the culprit, but might be a victim of a "stolen phone number" or perhaps a family member used the land line number to make the call(s).
2 simultaneous calls came into my bank and tried to gain access to my account on Nov 6 at 1:30PM CST. they call it tag teaming.
this banking account used both of my emails for contact purposes that i set up years ago. the fraud department at my bank is one of the best!
my bank denied access to this person(s).
in this on or around NOV 6, would someone have needed to cash a check???

 

[wwwweb]

What I find interesting is the total lack of response from @Jackson Elsegood from Escrow.com?

He hasn't even been here since January, 11th unless he's viewing from another account?

I find the lack of any statement at all from Escrow.com on this, quite troublesome, and quite telling!

I know some will say, it's a legal matter and they can't say anything. And others will say, they did their job, moving money from one party to another. But he should at least say something, even if it's just that.

But if that's the standard this industry holds Escrow companies too, this industry is deeply flawed!

Escrow and Jackson are not going to speak here at namepros, anything they say can be used against them in court, their legal team would handle it. They probably should not have given Rebecca any documentation either from a legal perspective, and just for waited for named action if it ever arrives.

This is just entertainment for all us, but real for the people involved so as it gets more serious, we are probably going to here less about it. It has pretty well been dissected well enough that it can probably be a hallmark movie now.

Someone mentioned filing a udrp, it could add an extra layer of lock on the domain, as well as more proof of it being contested a stolen domain. Considering this person ran a business with the exact same domain for decades could sway some judges, but really it’s a toss up, and it was defended to the T the way the system was setup Rebecca would probably lose the udrp at this point; but at the same time it would lock the domain from being sold, or add more clout to it, in then event it is ever to be settled.

Considering this case is not over millions of dollars, and for the buying party really about twenty something thousand dollars, all costs have to be looked at closely especially legal which can run the gambit on what is looming to be a complex case of mysterious people, all that takes a lot of time, and billable hours to investigate, and verify.

Best case here is if the current holders finds that $150k end user, and can facilitate a sale, and earn their breakeven with a commission, and give this lady back her nest egg.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

interestingly enough, i now have a telephone number that will most likely be linked to the person(s) responsible for this disaster. its a san jose ca area #. it is a land line. i have a name. i am adding this info to my FBI report.
the name on the phone number might be the culprit, but might be a victim of a "stolen phone number" or perhaps a family member used the land line number to make the call(s).
2 simultaneous calls came into my bank and tried to gain access to my account on Nov 6 at 1:30PM CST. they call it tag teaming.
this banking account used both of my emails for contact purposes that i set up years ago. the fraud department at my bank is one of the best!
my bank denied access to this person(s).
in this on or around NOV 6, would someone have needed to cash a check???

Now you are getting somewhere, maybe, I say maybe because numbers can be spoofed and if the thief was clever enough to fake ID's (presumably) to trick escrow and controlled and kept you from seeing emails, may have spoofed the number too. This evidence however is still valuable to your case, just another piece.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

Best case here is if the current holders finds that $150k end user, and can facilitate a sale, and earn make the break even with a commission, and give this lady back her best egg.

You made perfect sense right up until this statement.

It is actually comical because what you are saying is, listen lady it is going to cost big money to take this to court to get your name back... so let me sell it for you and give you the profits. That very act admits the name was stolen from her (why give her anything otherwise) which if he made that offer is comical. At that point he needs to just hand the name back over, this woman should not be forced into a broker agreement because her name was stolen, ridiculous. I know you meant well but you have to think it through more

@spoiltrider

Can you share up to this point what communication you had with Booth and if he ever made you such an offer to settle?

 

[DNWon]

That's it Rebecca @spoiltrider , keep digging! The more pertinent info you have collected the better it will be for you.
Keep the stuff unrelated to this out of this thread. (the horses, the hurricane, the move, the internet outage etc.) as it has no bearing on the investigation and just clouds the picture with unimportant details.
"Just the facts, ma'am!"
You should reach out to Kate and see if she will provide you with the Yahoo breach documentation she may have regarding your compromised Yahoo email account. You also may want to reach out to Jack Han and see if he will provide you with any emails to and from James Booth and Escrow.com regarding his cold feet transaction on the name and what he may have said to James Booth regarding your domain, as in my estimation, this could help mightily in getting your domain back. He may be willing to help to preserve his reputation since Mr. Booth apparently is not willing to help you at this point.
Jack Han = Zhaozhong Han
Not 100% sure this is him, but I believe it is:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zhaozhong-jack-han-09819a38/

 

[spoiltrider]

That's it Rebecca @spoiltrider , keep digging! The more pertinent info you have collected the better it will be for you.
Keep the stuff unrelated to this out of this thread. (the horses, the hurricane, the move, the internet outage etc.) as it has no bearing on the investigation and just clouds the picture with unimportant details.
"Just the facts, ma'am!"
You should reach out to Kate and see if she will provide you with the Yahoo breach documentation she may have regarding your compromised Yahoo email account. You also may want to reach out to Jack Han and see if he will provide you with any emails to and from James Booth and Escrow.com regarding his cold feet transaction on the name and what he may have said to James Booth regarding your domain, as in my estimation, this could help mightily in getting your domain back. He may be willing to help to preserve his reputation since Mr. Booth apparently is not willing to help you at this point.
Jack Han = Zhaozhong Han
Not 100% sure this is him, but I believe it is:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zhaozhong-jack-han-09819a38/

thank you so much. i am listening. i understand your words here.

 

[wwwweb]

You made perfect sense right up until this statement.

It is actually comical because what you are saying is, listen lady it is going to cost big money to take this to court to get your name back... so let me sell it for you and give you the profits. That very act admits the name was stolen from her (why give her anything otherwise) which if he made that offer is comical. At that point he needs to just hand the name back over, this woman should not be forced into a broker agreement because her name was stolen, ridiculous. I know you meant well but you have to think it through more

@spoiltrider

Can you share up to this point what communication you had with Booth and if he ever made you such an offer to settle?

I don't think James Booth would touch a stolen domain with a 10 foot stick, his brother taught him better than that, given how long he has been in this short .com domain game, and his level of expertise in the space.
Sometimes 9 out of 10 things check out, and you roll the dice, and that 10% comes back to haunt you, I don't know, but what I do know is how lawyers work, and the cost of this case going to trial given all the parties involved, Web.com, J B , R B, Escrow, banks, mystery person X, $25K is not even a drop in the bucket.

How is it comical? You yourself said you have bought the rights to stolen names because people can't afford to fight to get them back, that's actually opportunistic, this way both parties win, otherwise the only people who win are the lawyers. This lady stated her CQD business was not exactly a growth startup, she is focused on other things, but does dabble in graphic design, but was holding it for that one right end user. She has to pay afternic the same commission, if he can find the right end user, get her the #, earn back break even on the commission, this could all be over in a perfect world.

Otherwise what she is going to spend in court, given he is in possession of the domain, and the burden of proof lies upon her to get it back, the real value of the domain is going to get her to pretty much $0.

 

[DNWon]

This is an identity theft case now, once she proves her identity was stolen and used to defraud her, it will be much easier to get her domain back, once that is established!

I hope you @spoiltrider have put locks on your credit reports and check your accounts regularly (daily) now!

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

I don't think James Booth would touch a stolen domain with a 10 foot stick, his brother taught him better than that, given how long he has been in this short .com domain game, and his level of expertise in the space.
Sometimes 9 out of 10 things check out, and you roll the dice, and that 10% comes back to haunt you, I don't know, but what I do know is how lawyers work, and the cost of this case going to trial given all the parties involved, Web.com, J B , R B, Escrow, banks, mystery person X, $25K is not even a drop in the bucket.

How is it comical? You yourself said you have bought the rights to stolen names because people can't afford to fight to get them back, that's actually opportunistic, this way both parties win, otherwise the only people who win are the lawyers. This lady stated her CQD business was not exactly a growth startup, she is focused on other things, but does dabble in graphic design, but was holding it for that one right end user. She has to pay afternic the same commission, if he can find the right end user, get her the #, earn back break even on the commission, this could all be over in a perfect world.

Otherwise what she is going to spend in court, given he is in possession of the domain, and the burden of proof lies upon her to get it back, the real value of the domain is going to get her to pretty much $0.

We are not saying he knowingly bought a stolen domain, looks like he was duped too based his statements alone at this point.

I stand by my statement you hold a stolen domain a you do not force the victim into a brokerage agreement because you know it will cost them too much to fight you to get it back, that is imo a huge prick move.

If you believe it was stolen and made such an offer you should do the right thing and just give it back, the victim is not on the hook for your loss, period. You buy a stolen domain, you give it back you don't ask the victim to recoup your costs via a hostage situation you created based on what it would cost them to fight you. Imagine that scenario with jewellery or a car or house etc.

COMICAL

 

[DNWon]

I don't think James Booth would touch a stolen domain with a 10 foot stick, his brother taught him better than that, given how long he has been in this short .com domain game, and his level of expertise in the space.
Sometimes 9 out of 10 things check out, and you roll the dice, and that 10% comes back to haunt you

I agree, but I have a sneaky suspicion that Mr. Booth new something was up with this domain name, but indeed, decided to "roll the dice"?

 

[Silentptnr]

And by the way, had James tried to reach out to you @spoiltrider after this chapter started?

I feel bad for both parties, but I can tell you this much. If it were @spoiltrider that bought the domain and only knew she paid, then received the domain through escrow, then someone came out and said they were the rightful owner, what do you think would be Rebecca's response?

I think she would say take it up with escrow, court or whoever but leave me alone.

That's what I think most would say based on the circumstances.

 

[spoiltrider]

This is an identity theft case now, once she proves her identity was stolen and used to defraud her, it will be much easier to get her domain back, once that is established!

I hope you @spoiltrider have put locks on your credit reports and check your accounts regularly (daily) now!

TY. i have. its been a HUGE burden to muddle through. my bank is the best! i only wish i would have known then what i know now. hindsite is always 20/20 i suppose, even though this is a very foggy event.

 

[alcy]

sure makes one wonder whether the thief is following this thread.
wish there was a way for moderators to spot that somehow.. frequent thread viewings, no participation at all, recent account opening, perhaps location/ip.. but its too long of a shot I guess.

still, one does wonder.

 

[spoiltrider]

And by the way, had James tried to reach out to you @spoiltrider after this chapter started?

I feel bad for both parties, but I can tell you this much. If it were @spoiltrider that bought the domain and only knew she paid, then received the domain through escrow, then someone came out and said they were the rightful owner, what do you think would be Rebecca's response?

I think she would say take it up with escrow, court or whoever but leave me alone.

That's what I think most would say based on the circumstances.

no. he has not. as previously stated, miles ago, the only known communication from him to me was a phone call that went straight to my VM at 2AM in the morning regarding "why are you taking back the domain i just bought". i did not call him back, therefore i have never spoken to him. ohhh... and 3 emails he and his "team member" sent me after the sh*t hit the fan.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

TY. i have. its been a HUGE burden to muddle through. my bank is the best! i only wish i would have known then what i know now. hindsite is always 20/20 i suppose, even though this is a very foggy event.

Has Booth reached out to you yet and if so what exactly did he say.

 

[spoiltrider]

Has Booth reached out to you yet and if so what exactly did he say.

(see above)...
no. he has not. as previously stated, miles ago, the only known communication from him to me was a phone call that went straight to my VM at 2AM in the morning regarding "why are you taking back the domain i just bought". i did not call him back, therefore i have never spoken to him. ohhh... and 3 emails he and his "team member" sent me after the sh*t hit the fan.

 

[spoiltrider]

sure makes one wonder whether the thief is following this thread.
wish there was a way for moderators to spot that somehow.. frequent thread viewings, no participation at all, recent account opening, perhaps location/ip.. but its too long of a shot I guess.

still, one does wonder.

whoever it is, i hope s/he is sweating bullets. karma is a bitch ya'll.