opinion What I've Bought in the Past 12 Months and Why

GCCinternet · Oct 15, 2015

Well said @DomainVP.

As another person commenting about LLNN.com domains isn't likely to make difference, let me share my comments.

In the end of August 2015 I got interested in these names. There are growing number of sales all the time at stable price level of ~$200~$500 usually, with 4-figures as well and one $10k sale. If you analyse NameBio, you will see that LLNN are much often traded and at higher price level than NNLL.
I would note also that LLNN are visibly rarer than LLLL (permutation of 26*26*26*26=456,976, while 26*26*10*10=67,600). If you subtract vowels and 4s, it's less. So the natural question is why shouldn't they trade at the same or theoretically higher level than LLLL, at least at wholesale/domainer2domainer? (Western end-user/global corporation may pay more for LLLL in fact than LLNN)

On August 20, there were slightly under 1,000 LLNN names without vowels and 4. I registered a "trial" of ~130 names, starting from best IMO ie. round/whole numbers LLN0 (whole dozen at the end).
Later, on September 22, there were only 215 left. Yesterday, on 2015-10-14, nothing was available from this list already. The scale of vanishing isn't like for 6Ns (at least now, because it's the end of availability), but stable liquidity, price floor and the fact of rarer combinations, they all together set very solid grounds for value of LLNN.

If you subtract vowels and 4, the floor price for these names is ~$160, excl. several dozens BIN offers below ~$100.

~AW

Abdullah Abdullah · Oct 15, 2015

Great post James. I also invest in two word .coms that mean something, and though I never made big sales with them, I do still sell more than the brandables ...at least for me.

djum · Oct 15, 2015

DomainVP said:
LLNN's will be equal to todays PinYin LLLL price within 6 - 15 months - welcome to the next buying trend.

Hmm, this category is still far away, imho.
Even Chinese websites do not track it.
And they track most of 4 character domains and even obscure 6N.net.

Anyone have the full list of LLNN? I want to perform a scan to see what's going on there.

At the same time other categories are shooting through the roof.
Chinese LLLL.net and now English premium LLLL.net with less than 5500 left now it won't take that long for them to be gone completely.

Here's the list of 6488 LLLL.nets that got registered in last 3 days:
http://pastebin.com/wahQb9KQ

DomainVP · Oct 15, 2015

djum said:
Hmm, this category is still far away, imho.

It's not far away, it's already here. It's just not being pumped by the western masses because it's harder to understand than the basic 4 letters.

I recommend anyone to try it for themselves, go try to dropcatch a repeating number with 'good' characters - you will get a hands on lesson on their value at the moment.

You want a HKNN or VNNN - they are all taken. And VN99 sold for $10,000 USD a few months ago to a Chinese buyer. The owner of CU33 is asking $20k, hmmm... a,e,i,o,u,v does not apply here, and I'll get into that later.

djum said:
At the same time other categories are shooting through the roof.
Chinese LLLL.net and now English premium LLLL.net with less than 5500 left now it won't take that long for them to be gone completely.

They are only shooting through the roof through speculation.

It's anyones prerogative to ride the wave, but that's where this interest is coming from. It's been done before.

Mass speculation, and pricing, rises in namespaces where massive amounts of handregs can be obtained and new domainers start to promote the namesapce.

With 456,976 4L.net permutations at next to hand reg fee, people buy 2k of them and start the promoting - value goes up

.

djum said:
Anyone have the full list of LLNN

I have a full list of LLNN, and I'll post it when I do my writeup in a few days. I wrote a script that can produce permutations easily - and I've checked it. There are roughly 4k 'okay' LLNN's left.

Anyone interested in getting in on it now should take $500 - $1000 and get a premium one now from owners that have held them since the 90's or 2000's and are unaware of the incoming wave. It's mostly Chinese ownership, instead of western domainers buying them for speculation.

Keep in mind, this is on the back of zero promotion on any forums. It's how domains of real value actually rise, as 4N's and 4L's have.

All of the good ones are already taken, and have been for quite some time - which is why there isn't much fanfare or awareness.

Most people just follow the leader without doing any real research. Chinese buyers split the LLLL domains for meaning as it is, so LLLL is actually LL | LL for buyers. So LL | NN makes sense, because it is saying two things, which is what they look for in 4L as well.

Some info for thought...

Permutations:
456,976 LLLL.COM's
67,600 LLNN.COM's

But in the end... I don't even need to 'sell' this... the word isn't going to come from new domainers.
You will see some very strong voices in domaining calling the same thing very soon, especially since western marketing trends are leaning towards the LLNN naming format as well.

LLNN has the support and ability to match or overtake LLLL in the near term.

djum · Oct 15, 2015

Why Dropcatch, if you said there's still 4K free names?
You can get them at expired auctions at GD with no competition.

Chinese LLLL.net are long time gone and they sell everywhere.
10-12 - 62 names sold
10-13 - 245 names sold
10-14 - 75 names sold
10-15 - 55 names sold
At public Chinese auctions, not counting what what was sold at Western auctions and domain forums.
It's safe to say that 50-100 names sell every day.
It doesn't matter that most sell to domainers, but can you provide at least 50 sales of LLNN names?

I don't think so. List it here to prove me wrong.

LLNN the same speculation as any other category,not different.
I checked 30+ LLL.com names that was sold lately and found only 1 that is used by end-user.
The rest are parked or listed for sale.
Most of sales generated by domain investors, there's nothing wrong with it.

456,976 is the whole number of possible combinations.
Out of them Chinese LLLL.net all registered.
English premiums - only 5500 are free.
And overall just 131 000 are free.

I don't see much support at LLNN at the moment neither from registrations, not from sales.
There's no significant sales at the auctions or forums.
Maybe some sell, but you need to be expert and know both - Chinese letters and numbers to create right combinations.

If you can't provide whole count or at least the list of what was registered in last 3 days we can compare.
From 6488 LLLL.net part was taken by Western people, part by Chinese, there's prove that interest is growing everywhere.

I wiil try to code/sort list myself and check LLNN to see if there's any interest.
Will report soon.

Nile Patel · Oct 16, 2015

djum said:
Why Dropcatch, if you said there's still 4K free names?
You can get them at expired auctions at GD with no competition.

Chinese LLLL.net are long time gone and they sell everywhere.
10-12 - 62 names sold
10-13 - 245 names sold
10-14 - 75 names sold
10-15 - 55 names sold
At public Chinese auctions, not counting what what was sold at Western auctions and domain forums.
It's safe to say that 50-100 names sell every day.
It doesn't matter that most sell to domainers, but can you provide at least 50 sales of LLNN names?

I don't think so. List it here to prove me wrong.

LLNN the same speculation as any other category,not different.
I checked 30+ LLL.com names that was sold lately and found only 1 that is used by end-user.
The rest are parked or listed for sale.
Most of sales generated by domain investors, there's nothing wrong with it.

456,976 is the whole number of possible combinations.
Out of them Chinese LLLL.net all registered.
English premiums - only 5500 are free.
And overall just 131 000 are free.

I don't see much support at LLNN at the moment neither from registrations, not from sales.
There's no significant sales at the auctions or forums.
Maybe some sell, but you need to be expert and know both - Chinese letters and numbers to create right combinations.

If you can't provide whole count or at least the list of what was registered in last 3 days we can compare.
From 6488 LLLL.net part was taken by Western people, part by Chinese, there's prove that interest is growing everywhere.

I wiil try to code/sort list myself and check LLNN to see if there's any interest.
Will report soon.

Hi Djum

You both have valid points to buy or not to buy , but reality is no one know why this Chinese are buying all this names suddenly within short period of time, Every one do their own research before investing in any pattern , some like 4l.com some not that does not mean it do not have value, again only top guys who going to flip at right time will going to be rich rest of them either going to hold for years or drop later when they can't afford to pay, but trust me this Chinese big guys will not going to loose all new Chinese investors going to get hard time after couple year later, it is like china's stock marketing is doubling in few weeks and their own real estate market going from low to very high to low again this not happen in other country that fast, so we do not know how this happening in china and specially in domain world , as all we can say is good news for all of long term domainers and thanks to Chinese investors to bring this niche in front of investor world.

djum · Oct 16, 2015

Created the LLNN.com list and checked them.

5750 out of 67600 are free = 8.51%.

Comparing to 5481 out of 83521 Premium LLLL.net = 6.56%

All domains either have non-premium letter (A-E-I-O-U-V) or number 4.
That can make further progress slow. All the good ones are taken and people get the drops of Chinese LL + NN without 8. That's understood.

I will recheck in a week to see if there's any progress.

Again if someone can point to the LLNN sales at any forum..
LLLL.net's are selling all over the place:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/vaap-net.884971/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/yehy-net-vrqj-cgot-mmrv-llll-net-lot.885859/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/qolu-net-great-cvcv-net.885230/#post-5052471
https://www.namepros.com/threads/bowt-net-5-start.883706/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/nicz-net-premium-llll-net.884726/#post-5051473
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ovit-net.885501/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/faft-net-1-start.883806/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/trvr-net.882961/

Just this month. At the same time I found 0 auctions for LLNN.com
If I missed them, please post.

Nile Patel · Oct 16, 2015

I checked on Godaddy and there is so many dropping everyday, it seems no one is buying even with two same digit and two same letters in closeout section, which you can buy for $12 and add renewal fees so total cost around $19.
Can anyone tell is it good investment to buy all of that closeout names.

DomainVP · Oct 16, 2015

adomaindeal said:
I checked on Godaddy and there is so many dropping everyday, it seems no one is buying even with two same digit and two same letters in closeout section, which you can buy for $12 and add renewal fees so total cost around $19.
Can anyone tell is it good investment to buy all of that closeout names.

Thats not accurate.

There are only 36 of them in closeout, and they are of low Chinese quality. If you notice, most of those 36 are regged in 2014.

There are none in GD closeout with repeating letter, and the ones with repeating number have low quality letters which would make the domain undesirable for the cn market.

Stay away from a,e,i,o,u,v, 4's and double zeros (00) BUT there are exceptions... I'll get into that later though.

Right now it's not a good investment to buy these types at closeout, or else they would have already been bought. The 'good' ones will never make it to closeout. Spend some money and buy good ones from current owners and at GD auctions & drop auctions.

Those that aren't sure of what I'm saying, I'm telling you - find a good one and try to own it. You will quickly find that the competition is fierce.

Like I said before, if anyone is hoping for a good handreg or closeout for a LLNN - that ship has sailed.

Yes, good ones are dropping every day, just like every domain namespace - buy you have to know the difference between what is good and what isn't right now.

Every nice that has exploded follows the same format:
1.Best ones are regged years in advanced
2. then the good ones bought
3. then the okay ones get bought
4. at the end of the cycle before prices go up the lowest tier ones remaining are bought in bulk.
5. Prices and demand explodes and it noticed by the entire market

Right now LLNN's are between 3 & 4 - and they got there through actual Chinese market demand and use, not through a huge push of domainer speculation.

Do some research, have fun exploring, and in a few days I'll post in detail.

djum · Oct 16, 2015

DomainVP said:
Right now LLNN's are between 3 & 4 - and they got there through actual Chinese market demand and use, not through a huge push of domainer speculation

Got where??
To what price level?
Oh, I forgot, there's still no sales.

But, "I'm telling you - find a good one and try to own it. You will quickly find that the competition is fierce."
Own it and pray

That maybe one day they will start to sell.

There's demand on many categories right now, LLLL.com LLLL.net, 6N.com, 6N.net, LLLLL.com, but at least in some of them we can see sales and in case if we need to, liquidate quick.
For LLNN.com it's very long play with "fierce competition" and no liquidity on horizon.
If you get it wrong, right of the expenses, chances to sell them are slim to none.
And investment price probably gonna be $30-50 since competition if fierce. Good luck with that.
I'd rather get 10 LLLL.nets for this money, in worst case I can always resell them for $5/piece and make some money back on parking.
10 LLNN = 100 LLLL.nets, on 100 domains portfolio chances to sell 1-2 names for $300-500 pretty good.

GravityEleven · Oct 16, 2015

imho investing in strong patterns in the 6-9N range is a safer play than investing in random LLNN (at similar entry costs)..
also the floor prices are rising faster for these (according to Namebio and several analyses in the past few weeks) and they make more sense to the average chinese investor new to domaining as well..

just my 2 cents.. do invest in what you feel has the most potential based on verifiable numbers, not opinions from others..

elevator · Oct 16, 2015

Nice article, filled with good ideas.

DomainVP said:
I knew the cat was going to be out of the bag soon, as I was alluding to in a previous post... I was going to do a full write up in a few weeks once the news was out.

I wrote a quick guide on how to buy LLLLs and I will be writing one soon on how to buy LLNN's, because there is a lot to understand before you jump in head first - that a,e,i,o,u,v mindset does not always apply here.

LLNN's will be equal to todays PinYin LLLL price within 6 - 15 months - welcome to the next buying trend.

Please when you are writing the article on LLNN or NNLL , I wish you will include LNNL or NLLN.
Or what do you think about that.

Thanks

Cheers.

frostify · Oct 16, 2015

Always nice to see a diverse portfolio of domains.
Make a few investments in the different areas you feel strongly about and hope for some good results

DomainVP · Oct 16, 2015

GravityEleven said:
imho investing in strong patterns in the 6-9N range is a safer play than investing in random LLNN (at similar entry costs)..

I see where you are coming from with this. You also know that at one time CVCV was also the 'safer' play than buying Chinese premium 4L.coms, and so were many other choices.

That's where LLNN is right now - and that's what I am saying.

I've been in the LLNN namespace acquiring premiums, and I agree with OP in saying that:

This category of domain acquisition may surprise you a little, but I think that this could be the next category which Chinese investors look at. For now, they have a very low acquisition price with great bargains to be found on GoDaddy's Closeout site. As with numerical domain names, I believe that if these are to be a successful category, then repetition is key.

=================================

djum said:
Got where??
To what price level?
Oh, I forgot, there's still no sales.
But, "I'm telling you - find a good one and try to own it. You will quickly find that the competition is fierce."
Own it and pray That maybe one day they will start to sell.

You do you my friend.

You control your own happiness, and if you want to be the 4L.net breaking news king, I hope all of your dreams come true - and that's all I will say about that.

Meanwhile.... the prices are reminiscent of early NNNN and early pinyin LLLL. There are a great deal of private and unreported auction sales as well, because I've won some that aren't on the list, and some that are

vl19.com 102 USD 10/15/15
jh66.com 297 USD 10/14/15
my66.com 560 USD 10/11/15
ag31.com 227 USD 10/9/15
hk37.com 148 USD 10/7/15
hp18.com 273 USD 10/6/15
jq55.com 148 USD 10/4/15
xj51.com 128 USD 10/1/15
hj95.com 123 USD 9/28/15
nm88.com 1,170 USD 9/27/15
sr28.com 131 USD 9/22/15
sj22.com 148 USD 9/15/15
yh92.com 1,003 USD 9/14/15
zs66.com 104 USD 9/14/15
xc88.com 1,120 USD 9/13/15
nf10.com 120 USD 9/10/15
dn01.com 157 USD 9/8/15
kj42.com 148 USD 9/7/15
yu99.com 222 USD 9/3/15
md88.com 2,320 USD 8/30/15
rb93.com 196 USD 8/30/15
sf10.com 261 USD 8/28/15
cp68.com 2,495 USD 8/26/15
se41.com 119 USD 8/21/15
ig88.com 3,000 USD 8/10/15
pj34.com 880 USD 8/5/15
vt12.com 100 USD 7/17/15
ld72.com 1,500 USD 7/16/15
ic68.com 138 USD 7/15/15
pt18.com 799 USD 7/13/15
sh66.com 1,070 USD 7/9/15
yj78.com 124 USD 7/9/15
cn66.com 210 USD 7/1/15
cs71.com 2,619 USD 6/29/15
uu33.com 850 USD 6/29/15
vk88.com 250 USD 6/28/15
bi88.com 343 USD 6/26/15
av88.com 510 USD 6/25/15
vn99.com 10,000 USD 6/22/15
bp88.com 720 USD 6/21/15
za88.com 380 USD 6/21/15
kj84.com 242 USD 6/16/15
kd58.com 1,244 USD 6/15/15
yh76.com 560 USD 6/8/15
fl88.com 1,225 USD 5/27/15
xy99.com 175 USD 5/19/15
bs88.com 600 USD 5/16/15
go88.com 680 USD 5/14/15
td88.com 250 USD 5/4/15
js83.com 1,319 USD 4/21/15

DomainVP · Oct 16, 2015

phase1 said:
Please when you are writing the article on LLNN or NNLL , I wish you will include LNNL or NLLN.
Or what do you think about that.

I don't think that NLLN or LNNL will be on the scene yet. I do think they will have their day, but I can't say that's going to happen for a few years.

Part of it is the view of 'balance' within the Chinese buying culture.

Mathematically NLLN and LNNL makes good sense, after all the name of the game is owning rare names, but Chinese buyers are looking for domains that have a split balance like LL | NN.

I think that LLNN's will take off, and then NNLL's will follow suit after, but LLNN will be the stronger of the type because they are also very friendly for western buyers:
CE21.com (US medical education)
TB12.com (NFL Star Tom Brady's portal)
there are more, but I'll save it for the longer post.

NNLL's are selling at auction very evenly, but LLNN is having some $x,xxx sales that I believe to be a good indicator that they are being valued more than the NNLL format.

In the end this is my opinion, and I'm just sharing my take it since OP has seen similar value in LLNN.

I think that there will be some very public support for this soon once the premiums become less affordable to snatch up so IMO now is the time to invest in a few good ones.

djum · Oct 16, 2015

26 sales in 3 month, still less than 28 sales of LLLL.net just in half October.
And of course, there are a great deal of private and unreported auction sales as well, because I've won some that aren't on the list, and sold some as well

I hope you won't have to wait longer than 2 years to start making profit on LLNN.

dann-o · Oct 16, 2015

@DomainVP
It's hard to argue with sales, but I don't see rarity the same way. I think once you get to NLLN, LNNL, LLLN, LLNL, etc, then I see 1,679,616 combinations available (36x36x36x36, 26 L's + 10 N's).

This puts the "rarity factor" more on par with 6N. And prices look similar, IMO.

Before you get into these "weird" combinations of L's and N's, shouldn't all the NLN, and LNL's be bought up first? Even by my math there's only 46,656 of these available, while using the conventional approach there's only 2,600 NLN's (10x26x10), and 6,760 LNL's (26x10x26).

Again, I see the sales too. I think the key is the split balance you were speaking of, LL/NN.

You obviously know more about the Chinese and their premiums than I do, I guess all I'm trying to say is that I don't view rarity the same, once you get into mixed combos. Hope that makes sense.

elevator · Oct 16, 2015

However, presently anything patterned are reared for hand regs

DomainVP · Oct 16, 2015

djum said:
I hope you won't have to wait longer than 2 years to start making profit on LLNN.

Thank you for your well wishes friend.

DomainVP · Oct 16, 2015

dann-o said:
Again, I see the sales too. I think the key is the split balance you were speaking of, LL/NN.

Agreed.

dann-o said:
It's hard to argue with sales, but I don't see rarity the same way. I think once you get to NLLN, LNNL, LLLN, LLNL, etc, then I see 1,679,616 combinations available (36x36x36x36, 26 L's + 10 N's).

That's okay, it's easy to want to group all of the mixed combos together, but it's not playing out that way right now. It would be like grouping all LLLL's together - the letters and patterns do influence the value.

I do think that all of the mixed combos will have value in 2-3 years, but right now LLNN is the frontrunner.

dann-o said:
Before you get into these "weird" combinations of L's and N's, shouldn't all the NLN, and LNL's be bought up first? Even by my math there's only 46,656 of these available, while using the conventional approach there's only 2,600 NLN's (10x26x10), and 6,760 LNL's (26x10x26).

There was a time when ALL numeric domains were 'weird'. I think reading one of the earliest NNNN threads here is a nice experience with how value starts to naturally emerge from different domain formats.

Today, demand for NNNN.com domains is still strong. Just this morning, 8582.com sold for $180 at Enom.

Reading that thread in hindsight is almost hilarious when people were saying things like, "I tend to keep away from number only domains".

In the end, this is my take on them and I stand by it. Either a future domainer will hold what I'm saying in regard, or they will dump all over it. Only time will tell.

But the demand is there for this namespace, and it is increasing from an actual end user position - not just from new domainers huckstering.

Should you bet the farm on it, no of course not - you shouldn't do that with anything.
But I do think it's a good idea to add these to your portfolio now before the demand increases even more.

GravityEleven · Oct 16, 2015

dann-o said:
I guess all I'm trying to say is that I don't view rarity the same, once you get into mixed combos. Hope that makes sense.

Exactly my point of view.. especially if you count in the average chinese investor mass to rise the price levels..

dann-o · Oct 16, 2015

DomainVP said:
I think reading one of the earliest NNNN threads here is a nice experience with how value starts to naturally emerge from different domain formats.

Nice read, there. Thanks. That was amazing foresight by the OP.

DomainVP said:
Reading that thread in hindsight is almost hilarious when people were saying things like, "I tend to keep away from number only domains".

...If I had been on here then, I may have been one of them.

DomainVP said:
it's easy to want to group all of the mixed combos together, but it's not playing out that way right now. It would be like grouping all LLLL's together - the letters and patterns do influence the value.

True.

DomainVP said:
In the end, this is my take on them and I stand by it. Either a future domainer will hold what I'm saying in regard, or they will dump all over it. Only time will tell.

But the demand is there for this namespace, and it is increasing from an actual end user position - not just from new domainers huckstering.

You also said that you think the odd combinations will increase in value in 2-3 years--Is this because end users will also want NNNL's, and NLLL's? Or will it be from "new domainer huckstering?"

By the way, I just looked at NLN and LNL combos, they have gone up at least 5x since I had last looked. I still think they look UGLY and I have trouble seeing mass end user appeal, but they've increased nonetheless.

I have lots more opinion on the matter and plenty to say, but I won't post any more here on it. I'll continue reading, however. It seems this thread has gotten a bit off track, and I don't want to hijack the OP's wonderful post any more than we already have

4Lseller.com · Oct 16, 2015

Some interesting investments

Good Job and thanks for sharing

DomainVP · Oct 16, 2015

CH58 - $208 5 minutes ago.

But yeah....

Nile Patel · Oct 16, 2015

So what is premium digit and premium letter in LLNN, i have added bid on some name at godaddy and lets see if i win to see what is max price, because there are many for buy as $5 in closeout deal.(if they have 36 that are many for me, i do not let any single name goes for lower price if it is liquid name)
And again many 4l.net is free to hand register since they are non chinese premium, but any Chinese premium do not show up in closeout deal, i have registered around 100 4l.net(non chinese as i m late in game) too so lets register same amount in llnn.com too.
I m mostly bidding on drop names and i do not see any single bid on LLNN drop so i was just wondering, what is the floor price to pay for any good name?
I see bid on other category specially on 5n.com in drop names and ya forgot about 4l.com and 4n.com , you have to pay premium for that drop which you get cheaper on other auction house compare to drop catch platform, plus worried of the fake bidding.
Hope fully all type of names get sold in Chinese market and all make money that what i wish for everyone, and let china become industry example after 20 year later for our kids as innovator in e-communication game and bit USA and Germany.

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