domains With no desire to pay up for a domain name, should I quit domaining?

[equity78]

So yesterday I got an email from someone who said they read the blog and wanted to know if they could give me a call? They have been involved in domain name investing for about two years with little to no success. He brought up a topic that I have discussed with friends before. He […]

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[MapleDots]

Mine eyes smell onions!

 

[SuperBrander]

Like with any occupation, if you don't invest the time and effort in learning what to do and how to be good (preferably great) at it it's very hard to keep doing it. In order to invest enough time and effort when you start out in domaining, I feel like you need to have a passion for words and branding and preferably at least a decent grasp of the English language (unless you're targeting non-english speaking countries). Even if you have a decent budget to begin with, which most people don't, you have to understand what to buy and at what price, otherwise you might as well go to a casino.

If from the get go you don't enjoy playing around with words, recognizing why some combinations are better than others, digging into data, experimenting with different sites that can help, have a passion for hunting for gems in piles of crap, staying updated on trends etc.- you won't put in the amount of time and effort that are required in order to learn how to do it well and then you won't be able to make enough money in order to be able to invest in better names.

 

[equity78]

Like with any occupation, if you don't invest the time and effort in learning what to do and how to be good (preferably great) at it it's very hard to keep doing it. In order to invest enough time and effort when you start out in domaining, I feel like you need to have a passion for words and branding and preferably at least a decent grasp of the English language (unless you're targeting non-english speaking countries). Even if you have a decent budget to begin with, which most people don't, you have to understand what to buy and at what price, otherwise you might as well go to a casino.

If from the get go you don't enjoy playing around with words, recognizing why some combinations are better than others, digging into data, experimenting with different sites that can help, have a passion for hunting for gems in piles of crap, staying updated on trends etc.- you won't put in the amount of time and effort that are required in order to learn how to do it well and then you won't be able to upgrade to better names.

I agree, I think this person was so stuck on they were not going to pay up for a domain name. They felt that they could not see getting into a bidding war on GoDaddy auctions and paying $800 for a solid two word.com. I said well if it's a solid name you see what they can get resold for. I think it was more about risk, though he said to me he was a risk taker. Loves going to the casino.

 

[SuperBrander]

Some people make a lot of money with handregged domains and closeouts but with these lower end domains it's more of a numbers game. Knowing what's more likely to sell is crucial otherwise it's just spray and pray.

Most people who don't master the basics and don't make a decent profit as a result probably shouldn't be dealing with more expensive domains. When you have the foundation and you're making enough money, it's easier to start aiming higher because you have the funds to invest and the knowledge to invest well. Unlike betting in a casino, with domains you can make decisions based on data and that can give you a serious edge, even though you're still speculating. You also have the option to buy domains that are liquid so the upside could be high but you can always liquidate and get back at least most of the money and even make a profit.

The guy you talked to seems fixated on getting rich without putting in the work. He won't be confident about investing in more expensive domains until he's making enough money from the lower end domains and it doesn't seem like he'll be getting there because he doesn't have the passion and the drive to excel at the lower end.

 

[D Haynes]

It sounds like it depends on your original expectations of what domaining will give you. If you expect to make a fortune or at least a good living (different amounts to different people) from it with a very small outlay you'll probably be disappointed but if you go in expecting to make it a side hustle and get a nice little bonus once in a while you're golden.

The most I've ever spent on a domain is $1k and that was a huge spend for me which I wouldn't have done if it wasn't a liquid name. The average I spend on a name is probably $xx and as such I'm aware I won't be making a living from domains any time soon but I'm alright with that because that feeling I get once a month or so when I refresh my emails to see "congratulations you sold..." makes it all worth while.

 

[cornell]

Insist, Insist, Insist

 

[platey]

I have been buying domains at reg fee since about 2014 ish etc i just buy two keyword .coms and used to buy 5L .coms and used to pre register gtlds for reg fee and have probably bought over the years approx 500 domains just buying the odd domain here and there for £10 or so etc and have sold in total about 2 domains for approx £10 in total

My strategy from the outset is buy and hold and not sell and still is

I have tried to pawn domains just to add liquidity to my portfolio but have been told i have no domains of value

All i wanted from day 1 of me buying domains was to find a domain name broker as i have no interest in selling domains etc i just enjoy finding good domains that i enjoy owning and have no particular desire to sell unless someone wants to own more than i want to own and prepared to pay enough for etc

The domain name industry is like a place full of houses with no estate agents etc people dont have to sell their house themselves they simply decide they want to sell their house and phone an estate agent who cones out to take pics of a house writes a description and outs its on their website and it can sell in weeks or days etc owners dont need to sell their own property they just need to find an estate agent to sell their house for them etc but most domain name brokers are too busy trying to sell the top 0.5% of most vslueable domains in the world

Finally i have found a broker that sees value in my domains etc

Oh and i lost a portfolio of about 60 domains to godaddy because i dropped my phone which smashed and it couldnt be used but godaddy couldnt understand that it was a complete waste of their time and my time them sending 2fa code to my phone i could no longer turn on those domains in that portfolio that i lost and had no choice but to allow to expire wil end up costing me 100,000s of £s which iswhy i will not knowingly use a godaddy product again as their customer service with this problem was nothing short of conpletely useless

 

[karmaco]

This business is not for everybody. This business is probably not even for 50% of those who make some attempt. You have to love doing this to put in the blood sweat and tears needed to get through the lean times. You have to have the patience of Job. You have to love words, language and branding.

Large portion of newbs just play the copycat game. Oh boomsy sold or just got listed somewhere? I must buy Boomzi, Boomzy and Boomsi if available.

The reason you should buy one versus the others is the key to success. You have to know what is a great name and why and what is mediocre at best.

Many never master the basics and get frustrated when money isn’t falling in their lap right away.

 

[jiy k]

Yes Domaining is Complicated and at times Confusing. There is no Fixed Formula for Buying, Investing and Selling Domain Names. Money slips through hands while buying them without realizing how much you have spent. Selling is very very tough unless you have Lady Luck favoring you. When i read articles of some non significant hand reg or expired domain sales on namepros i feel my hand reg name is much better and niche but still stuck for last 3 years. Very Uncertain Field. Unless you have fixed source of income to carry on your life without depending on income from Domaining one can try their luck here.

 

[MapleDots]

OK in all seriousness now...

Chances are if we told all newbies the truth the registrars would make a lot less money on totally useless registrations.

Newbie: Hi guys I joined namepros to try domain flipping.

Experienced Domainer: Flipping Domains? Are you mad???
It takes years of investing, watching auctions, and devoting countless hours to useless inquiries.
I have yet to ever flip a domain, it took me 10 years before I made a decent profit at it.

99% off all newbies will fail and we need to be honest with them, there is no such thing as domain flipping unless you are one of the 1% with a unique talent.

PS. 99% of all statistics are made up

 

[blkdomains]

Great conversation. I sold only a couple of domains last year a .com and a .co. I've been domaining a long time. This year for obvious reasons has been difficult. My team is also struggling with whether to liquidate or let drop at a loss domains and hold on to the percentage of domains that have the most value and or are clearly brandable (already on brandbucket or squadhelp). Domaining is demanding, its fun and I probably could've made more buying Apple 10 years ago but if you can sustain yourself during the bad years and you still enjoy it keep going. Otherwise get out as soon as you can.

 

[tonyk2000]

I would not recommend a newbie investor to join this market at this time. Doomed to failure. Money without experience means nothing here/now. Experience is not something one may magically learn from forums or "domaining classes / schools / e-books / gurus". Another error is that many folks tend to pay a lot of attention to what self-proclaimed "kings" say. Being in the right place at right time does not make one a king. Hard work and common sense does... and they would share real secrets anyway . The last but not the least, a new investor would be unable to determine what service providers should be avoided like a plague, and why. Too many services are simply competing to receive the $$$ the new investor will undoubtfully lose anyway...

 

[King]

Welp if you have the urge to quit, it was never meant for you anyways so it might be best to quit. It doesn't mean you are a loser quite the opposite, you're strong enough to move on.

 

[passini]

Domaining needs time, especially if you have a tiny budget. There is nothing wrong in paying less than $150 for each name. You have the closeouts, backorders, just expired names you get at hand reg fee. Most of my names are like this.

The problem is if you dont know what a good names is. I see many names that sell in Godaddy Auctions for 500 that are not much better or not better at all than a Dropcatch or SnapNames single backorder.

The other problem is that many people come to domaining after they saw a video or read an ebook about how easy is to flip a domain after a few days for big money. The truth is that is not easy. If it was like this why the majority of us keep building and improving our portfolios for years? Just buy one name flip it, after you buy one more expensive, flip it. Make just this 10 times and you rich! Hahaha, good luck.

Just this, IMHO

 

[equity78]

Large portion of newbs just play the copycat game. Oh boomsy sold or just got listed somewhere? I must buy Boomzi, Boomzy and Boomsi if available.

Very true, that and oh if this name sold in .com then my .top has a lot of value. Probably not.

 

[NickB]

Keep it simple....

Spend what you can afford to lose
Be patient
Remain inquisitive
Learn from your mistakes
Work hard
Enjoy it

At least then you half a chance.....

 

[Mytz.com]

Choice is more important than effort,
To all friends who invest in domain names

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thanks for sharing the story, @equity78 , and you asked him the key question first. I think if you don't have a good answer about why you are in domain investing, you should not be in domain investing. I am bothered that there continues to be so many who enter it, often with money they can't really afford to lose, feeling it is easy, fast and assured. If you are not passionate and willing to put in work and be disciplined and have patience, you should not be in it, as there are easier and more certain ways to make money. So yes, the key question is, as you wrote, Why are you in domain investing?
Thanks,
Bob

 

[biggie]

I am bothered that there continues to be so many who enter it, often with money they can't really afford to lose, feeling it is easy, fast and assured.

Hi

to that perspective:

my question would be.....

where do "they" get these preconceived notions that domaining is easy, that you can make money fast and there are some assurances' that you'll make profits.

who feeds them this propaganda and hype?

because the term "domain flipping", has been used as shorten synonym, for the work involved in the efforts of domaining.... many who us the phrase, really don't have idea of what it takes to succeed.

it's about the mentality.

imo...

 

[ThatNameGuy]

So yesterday I got an email from someone who said they read the blog and wanted to know if they could give me a call? They have been involved in domain name investing for about two years with little to no success. He brought up a topic that I have discussed with friends before. He […]

Of course this industry isn't for everyone just like being an entrepreneur isn't for everyone. Even though I arrived to this industry a little late in the game I knew from previous experience starting, operating and yes naming businesses I'd eventually make it. I was told by so called professional domainers that my prior experience was worthless and that if I didn't do it their way I was doomed to fail. That was music to my ears because failure has never been part of my vocabulary. Besides having sold four domains for $1,400, $890, $500 and $375 in the last 60 -90 days, I just finished hand registering 260 .realty domains at a price of .99 cents each. Granted they renew for $299 in a year, but that wasn't deterrent enough to keep me from aggressively and enthusiastically pursuing this opportunity any differently than anything else I've done.

Finally, i still say that buying and hoarding any domain hoping and praying someone will find it and pay you top dollar makes for a crazy business model/plan. This is why I'm still seeking a technical partner of sorts who can compliment my business and naming talents.

Any stoners out there who are interested in getting into real estate with Stonerrealty?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

who feeds them this propaganda and hype?

Probably those who write and publish the results when one Google searches terms like "flip domains for profit" or similar expressions. Many of these seem to be written by those not obviously very much in the domain community.

As I, and others, have frequently said on NPs and elsewhere, domain investing is not easy, fast or assured. Only invest what one can afford to potentially lose.

The problem is that it is too easy to latch onto the one sided view of a few names that were sold quickly for a large profit, overlooking the huge majority that will never sell.

Even within the serious side of our industry, it is natural to talk about the $$$$+ sales only.

Thanks for your views.

Bob

 

[biggie]

Even within the serious side of our industry, it is natural to talk about the $$$$+ sales only.

Hi

and why, do you think it's natural?

to me, it's what feeds the hype, when there is mostly talk about 4 figure + sales.
while the majority of sales are below that, and are what keeps the ball rolling

big sales are a headline and mainly when published, you only hear about the sale price and not much more.
when you send readers to past sales sites, all they see is sold price and not much more.

all what occurred while such names were waiting to be sold, is untold.
as well as, what was done with the domain, after it was sold.

so, unless one has inside info, does research or seller reveals....what do you really know, other than the price it sold for?

which means all of that "unknown", which doesn't get talked about, remains a mystery and a hurdle for those who only follow price.

imo...

 

[Bob Hawkes]

You make some good points, @biggie .

big sales are a headline and mainly when published, you only hear about the sale price and not much more.
when you send readers to past sales sites, all they see is sold price and not much more.

all what occurred while such names were waiting to be sold, is untold.
as well as, what was done with the domain, after it was sold.

Yes, although often the time since registration is stated, so one could compute at least renewal costs. In most of the analysis I have done of major sales, I have looked at how the name is currently used, if at all. I believe that is one of the most important things for our industry, and I am concerned that so many names that sell for significant amounts do not seem to find meaningful use. For example this article on NamePros looked at the highest-value .org sales and how they are currently used, and in what sectors. It showed only about half are in meaningful use.

to me, it's what feeds the hype, when there is mostly talk about 4 figure + sales.
while the majority of sales are below that, and are what keeps the ball rolling

Yes, that is why every day I publish in my daily summary the average and median sales price, which are normally about $600 and $250 respectively - most recent was $567 average and $249 median, day before $696 average and $287 median. The mix of wholesale and retail of course make any average somewhat misleading. The median rise, it used to be about $220, probably mainly an indicator of the increase in wholesale acquisition costs.

I did do an analysis of the breakdown of prices, of .com at least, which showed that , and that is even without Sedo showing sales below $2000 and some other places like BuyDomains not reporting their lowest value sales. That started with the following...

"Domain name sales of value $100,000 or more represented only 0.10% of all publicly-recorded .com sales in 2018, but they accounted for almost 30% of the dollar volume of sales for the year. While average sales prices can be useful, they mask the fact that most sales are at much more modest prices. The typical .com sale, at least as publicly recorded, was about $265 in 2018."​

Fairly some criticized because it was a mix of two populations, wholesale and retail. But while taking that into account, only 16% of NameBio reported .com sales were at $1000 or above for the time period I studied.

In my mind the most important message though, even more than that a lot of names sell for $$$, is that the vast majority of names held by domain investors today will never sell. Some new to domaining find the 1% typical sell-through rate hard to believe, but actually only retail sales, it is probably less than that.

I do take to heart that when we report major sales, it is important to place that within a context that is the exception, most domain names sell at modest prices if at all. I am sure all who write in the domain industry can do a better job finding the right balance in reporting, and will take your criticisms to heart.

Thank you for your comments.

Bob

PS I realize I did not answer your "Why do you think it is natural." Perhaps natural was not a well-chosen word, but what I mean is when you read media, for example business media, the stories are about startups that are doing well, and far less often about those that fail. Perhaps, it is because we can learn more from success stories? This week we read about Nobel prize winning science work. 99% of scientific and technical idea do not result in significant success. It is the nature of a challenging business. It is within that context I said natural, perhaps the wrong word.

 

[biggie]

Hi

even in all that context, one still wouldn't know all the unknowns i mentioned.

there is also a question about wholesale and retail.

where, and how do you figure the price was wholesale or retail, without knowing what the domain was used for, if at all

as i know of sales that were in 5 figure range, yet the domain remains parked, not resolving or under construction. or sales under $300, where domains were fully developed.

so, is it the platform where domain was purchased, the price it sold for, or what it was used for later, which makes it a wholesale or retail sale?

can it clearly be defined and categorized or is it a vague assumption or something that has to be determined on a sale-by-sale case?

all these things which are discussed, sound meaningful and relevant, yet if they are not fully broken down to the essence of understanding.... can add to the confusion.

imo...