Why Domainers Will NEVER Develop Full Blown Sites

[kortex]

First of all wtf am I. I'm freaking nobody but I have a talent for conceptualizing things.

Thesis: All the talk about serious development of sites by domainers is BS. Will never happen on any meaningful scale. Domainers income will continue to consist of two main sources: 1) monetizing their domains via ad revenues 2) re-selling them (mostly to end-users who actually will fully develop them).

1 and 2 correspond to renting and re-sale income in the real estate world respectively.

Here's why things will continue like this indefinitely:

1) Domainers SUCK at developing sites. It's not their thing. If they wanna fully develop they must outsource to someone good (expensive).

2) Fully developing a site requires a lot of investment of money and time. A domain's type-in traffic revenue alone does not justify such investment. Domainers are looking for ROI on their domains and will not accept such a risk/ROI profile.

3) The domain's type-in traffic is absolutely not enough to make the domain a meaningful business player in its vertical. (example: sex.com) Massive investment will be required in marketing (non-type-in traffic acquisition) as well as operating the site on daily basis - overhead, employees, etc. This is the era of "build it and they WON'T come unless you invest a shitload in marketing". Domainers will not make such investments. It's not their core business.

4) Full blown development and operating full blown sites is not domainers' core business. Thus they won't engage in it. For example, running even one "category killer domain" business such as software.com is a full-time gig. Marketing, competition, etc. Domainers don't wanna deal with it. It's not their business.

5) Domainers are like real-estate investors. They can rent and speculate in properties but they're not going to for example own, run and operate a store in one of their buildings. It's not their business.

Real sites will continue to be developed by end-users. There will be very low level cookie-cutter "mass development" which is nothing more than increasing RPM advertising yields for the portfolio. I think development is not the right word to describe that anyway.

 

[lexisdomains]

.de

WOT??????(meaning what?)

Cheers

L.

As in - .DE is 99.99% the only relevant extension to the German market; even in its hyphenated form. However, it has also been documented that there is some interest in german/english .COM sales.

 

[mwzd]

Domainers are like real estate investors. They buy when land is cheap, sell when it gets more expensive.

Web Publishers otoh are like real estate developers, they buy a property, add meaningful 'construction' to it and monetize that.

Web developers are usually people who do solutions for other people.

I started as a publisher / developer in 1998, wish I'd been a domainer instead.

I'm still a publisher and developer, but domaining helps provide a winning hand over other firms, since we own some nice names too.

All parts of any ecosystem are necessary, even the lowliest of plankton have a scheme of thing in the food chain, why diss any of them?

 

[tristanperry]

Domainers are like real estate investors. They buy when land is cheap, sell when it gets more expensive.

Web Publishers otoh are like real estate developers, they buy a property, add meaningful 'construction' to it and monetize that.

Web developers are usually people who do solutions for other people.

I started as a developer in 1998, wish I'd been a domainer instead.

I'm still a publisher and developer, but domaining helps provide a winning hand over other firms, since we own some nice names too.

All parts of any ecosystem are necessary, even the lowliest of plankton have a scheme of thing in the food chain, why diss any of them?

This.

We all play a part.

I was also a developer before being a domainer, and I see the benefit in both.

Plus I think that the OP is being a little too harsh on domainers. There are plently of 'developers' who make rubbish websites. Just as there are plently of domainers who make good websites.

It seems silly to generalize especially since - when done right - *both* domainers and developers can play a key role.

 

[enlytend]

(sorry to take a little side trip here ...)

Up in the North of England there is a mattress firm called 1stforchoice...what the hell that has to do with mattresses is beyond me

But YOU remembered it, didn't you?

The internet is littered with millions of these company names that businessmen thought were a good idea at the time. Then they assume it is all a scam when it all costs them money without anything being generated.

I work with a lot of small "brick and mortar" businesses. There's nothing wrong with small businesses using their family or business name instead of a generic. If they're not getting any business via their website, trust me - the domain name is usually the least to blame!

To get back on topic, there do seem to be a lot of domainers who "develop" because it's the buzzword du jour but who aren't realy "developers" and can't or won't be bothered - just want to take the cheapest/easiest/fastest way to post a few pages passable enough to run Adsense and call it a day. To each his/her own, but that does make for a lot of trashy keyword-domain sites. If I'm looking to buy a mattress, I'd rather visit a real site with a bad name than some useless MFA.

 

[Sparhawke]

(sorry to take a little side trip here ...)

But YOU remembered it, didn't you?

I drive past it every day and have a friend that works there who was mentioning on a different subject how they don't have a clue...plus I went for a job there a few years back and met one of their "managers" (and I use that term loosely)

Plus, I tend to notice domain names of all types since I am in the industry, don't you?

I work with a lot of small "brick and mortar" businesses. There's nothing wrong with small businesses using their family or business name instead of a generic. If they're not getting any business via their website, trust me - the domain name is usually the least to blame!

This is not a small business, they manufacture the damn things lol

My point is with that example is that they do not seem to know what to do with their website and it is a problem in England particularly from the ground up.

You buy a domain name and then get a developer to shove a couple of pages there and then you hand out flyers to people that end up immediately in the bin along with their brochures...a big noise is generally made about a company having a website but the names bear absolutely no relation to what they do therefore they simply end up priming someone else to take the sale and cannot understand why lol

They even have a sign on the side of the building shouting "MEMORY FOAM MATTRESSES!!" but in tiny, tiny fine print that you cannot see while driving past at 40mph they have the company domain name, almost as an afterthought so people will always end up looking on the internet elsewhere.

Not every domain name has to be a single keyword but I believe that they should give someone a hint of what they may find there otherwise they will forget the name, but not the reason for looking. ManchesterMattresses or LondonLogistics or BirminghamButchers...they are all fairly decent names that tell people exactly where they are and what they do.

If I am marketing shoes for instance I would not want a shop called "Bliss For Toes" because I might end up with an entirely different class of clientèle, people looking for something entirely different and that is where we come in. We find out what people are searching for and we give it them

"1st for comfort" ends up with 91 BROAD searches globally and none in England, that tells me that absolutely no one is looking for them at all and they could use the services that I offer. But talking to my friend and a couple of managers tells me that they are completely disinterested in everything to do with the company, they just do not care.

Anyways, if anyone is reading there is a possible lead for you if you are interested in taking it up but I personally would prefer to use my time on companies that give a damn, hell...even if they cared about the coffee in the pot it would be a start

~~~

My point to all this is that everyone plays their role in bringing a website online, from the registrar to the enduser eventually and 99% of the time when one takes the role from another it all gets broken. A developers job is not to buy or sell stuff and an end users job is not to develop the website but what tends to happen is neither has a clue that this unspoken rule exists.

 

[.X.]

Tell that to the Germans.

I agree, Also tell the United Kingdom and Spain that.

 

[Smith]

I agree, Also tell the United Kingdom and Spain that.

French as well.

True cctld's (ie. not BS islands with a population of 4 people) are a great investmet as long as you know the local market, the legalities of being in that market and the language.

 

[.X.]

French as well.

True cctld's (ie. not BS islands with a population of 4 people) are a great investmet as long as you know the local market, the legalities of being in that market and the language.

Agreed, No doubt about it.

 

[garptrader]

Yes, most domainers are not skilled at development and few acquire domains with the intent of starting an online business. Finding good domains is work but not nearly as much so as running a business. However, many end users don't consider domainers to be a value add. Many complain about the difficulty of finding a good domain because of those @#$%^&!!! domain squatters who try to scam people for insane prices. So they proceed registering poor-quality domains which even a newbie wouldn't register because they refuse to pay more than $50 for a domain.

 

[snoop]

Yes, most domainers are not skilled at development and few acquire domains with the intent of starting an online business. Finding good domains is work but not nearly as much so as running a business. However, many end users don't consider domainers to be a value add. Many complain about the difficulty of finding a good domain because of those @#$%^&!!! domain squatters who try to scam people for insane prices. So they proceed registering poor-quality domains which even a newbie wouldn't register because they refuse to pay more than $50 for a domain.

At the end of the day I would say there is fair low utility in a speculator holding onto anything (land, art, domains). It doesn't really help anyone aside from the owner and the people advertising on the parked domain. But who cares, the reality is people do hold such items simply to speculate.

Agree with the premise that domainers know little about development, not much of a surprise, development is a very different business model to domaining and when domainers "develop" it is usually low quality on a domain they have minimal interest in.

Regarding paying more than $50 etc, most people simply don't see the value in spending a lot on a domain, for for the majority of businesses there is no need to either. Instead of the endless complaints about that the domain industry should just accept that is how it is in my view. The aftermarket domain industry appeals to a small subset of the people who buy domains.

 

[john_karr]

The domaining industry is slowly grinding to a halt. There are about 50 websites that get like 85% of all internet traffic. The supply of domains has FAR exceeded the demand for end user development. The only logically segment left for speculators is .COM. I must say it sure was a fun ride but now it's .COM or nothing.

It seems that way right?

 

[RogueWriter]

It seems that way right?

uh.....no.

 

[VURG]

I agree and disagree at the same time.

Some domainers make a lot of money with developing. Other specialise only in domains.

 

[labrocca]

Domainers are a necessary evil of the internet

Oh really? That's a very self-serving statement imho. Ask the rest of the web they'll probably disagree with you. A few changes from ICANN would pretty much shut down domainers completely. Although unlikely to happen it would still be well received by the general population.

Think TennisShoes.com for a shoe store, without us an end user may never find it and would probably end up with ShoeStoreAlabama7273.com

That's a farce. Domainers don't create domains. They just register them first. Sure someone has to be first but does a buyer have to pay top dollar to get TennisShoes.com? It's still going to just one guy leaving the next guy with ShoeStoreAlabama7273.com.

we are doing the internet a great service

Dillusion. Domainers do not provide a "great service". Do you really think anyone paying top dollar for a domain from a domainer thinks "oh thank god this was registered by a squatter". And trust me they think that all domainers are basically squatters.

If we didn't exist in such numbers then registrars would be able to get away with charging $500+ for any domain, regardless of how crap it is.

On what basis do you come up with that? Domains were $75 per year from Netsol. Heck they were free at first. Netsol has gotten rich from reg fees but realistically a non-profit could run the internet and domains could be $2 each even with low volumn.

1) Domainers SUCK at developing sites. It's not their thing. If they wanna fully develop they must outsource to someone good (expensive).

The problem is that when you're a domainer and can develop great sites you're no longer a domainer.

2) Fully developing a site requires a lot of investment of money and time. A domain's type-in traffic revenue alone does not justify such investment. Domainers are looking for ROI on their domains and will not accept such a risk/ROI profile.

I've seen a few here transition from domainer to developer. I've never seen the reverse. Profitable websites are way better than parking CPC or domain resale income. I'm personally making $xxx,xxx from my developed websites now. I used to make good income from domaining but always spent time on development. I do my own coding, design, hosting, and system administration. I rely on no one. I'm 100% a web developer from start to finish. My top site is now Alexa 5k. So there are "domainers" that develop.

5) Domainers are like real-estate investors. They can rent and speculate in properties but they're not going to for example own, run and operate a store in one of their buildings. It's not their business.

Typically true but take major cities where rent is expensive and you'll see lots of business owners become their property owners. Did you know that McDonalds is one of the largest real estate owners in the world? They actually rent out the buildings and land to the franchises in most cases. It's a bizarre world we live in and everyone makes money the best they can. It's capitalism (not a dirty word).

But there are also lots of us hanging out here who deal in domains but are not primarily "domainers"

This is very true. I'm well aware of those around me that are the developers. This is a small crowd.

Having said that, a lightly developed domain probably showcases the domain better than no development on the domain at all

I disagree. Unfortunately my experience is that I've never received a cold offer on a domain that was developed. Those buying in the marketplace tend to look for undeveloped and parked sites. Truth is that a blank slate is easier to build from than tearing down shoddy work that might have harmed you in SERPS. And if a developed domain is crap the potential buyer may negatively review the value of the domain itself and move on. That's my take on it.

The domaining industry is slowly grinding to a halt. There are about 50 websites that get like 85% of all internet traffic. The supply of domains has FAR exceeded the demand for end user development. The only logically segment left for speculators is .COM. I must say it sure was a fun ride but now it's .COM or nothing.

I've agreed with this sentiment all year long. I do think the ride is over for most domainers.

Example: Rick Silver - .CA guru who made several scalable business models around his domain investments

That's another guru that started in the 90's. Find me examples of anyone starting in the last 3 years.

Web Publishers otoh are like real estate developers, they buy a property, add meaningful 'construction' to it and monetize that.

This is someone like Steve Wynn. Do a Wikipedia search if you don't know who he is. Making billions off development of land.

I think often domainers are just unskilled people that view domaining as easy money. It requires very little work and with parking companies not even any marketing.

few acquire domains with the intent of starting an online business. Finding good domains is work but not nearly as much so as running a business

For me personally I started off buying a lot of domains with intentions of developing them all. Of course getting an offer on one was great and I'd sell for the right price. While the selling was good I'd register and buy more and had at one point 700 domains. Now I'm down to 300 and I renew only those I think are fit for development. I earn crap from parking. Most of my good development domains don't really earn anything parked. If I had a million dollars I could probably create a 100 million dollar company from it. But I don't have a million dollars and the internet bubble burst a long time ago. Finding an Angel Investor is near impossible.

Regarding paying more than $50 etc, most people simply don't see the value in spending a lot on a domain, for for the majority of businesses there is no need to either.

I've mainly had success with development of under $100. Heck now that I think about it ...all the domains I bought for $x,xxx for development have failed. Damnit.

To summarize all this. I think you can sit on the fence and lean either way. People simply make money as best they can however they can. If you're good at PPC and reselling that's what you focus on. If you can take a $100 domain, develop it, and earn $x,xxx a month you'll do that.

 

[MicroGuy]

^^^ Best post/reply I've read on here in a LONG time. Thanks and Rep!

"I think often domainers are just unskilled people that view domaining as easy money. It requires very little work and with parking companies not even any marketing."

 

[tristanperry]

I think often domainers are just unskilled people that view domaining as easy money.

This is true of absolutely everything in life; it's not limited to domainers

Internet marketing has people making $xx,xxx daily (albeit only a very small minority of people, of course!). But there are also massive n00bs in IM whose idea of 'making money online' is basically ripping off someone else's work and hoping they make money.

Just as you have people calling themselves website developers who basically spam by making tons of really small websites with rubbish content (and they try to 'cheat' the SEs with 'black hat SEO' etc)

I agree with the bulk of your post (even if I'd consider myself to be both a developer and domainer; I've made profit from both and love both areas), although I just think it's worth pointing out that your "easy money = unskilled domainers" remark is a good one, but it's true of ALL walks of life. Not just domaining

In-fact, I think that there's more n00bs and spammers in internet marketing than domaining.

 

[JB Lions]

"2) Fully developing a site requires a lot of investment of money and time."

I would say with this one, depends. Time for sure. Money, depending on your site. You can develop sites on your own and depending on the topic, they might be big, thousands of pages + or a handful. I have one 1000+ and room for more and I have niche sites, very targeted niche sites, where it just doesn't need much, some under 10 pages. Domainers who park, could be making so much more money, doing it themselves and cutting out the middleman. Those type of pages are really not that hard or take too much time to do yourself.

 

[MicroGuy]

This is true of absolutely everything in life; it's not limited to domainers

It may not be limited to domaining but domaining seems to attract this personality type. And it's certainly not true of any professional occupation since these require education, training and specific skill sets. After all, you can't just jump into anesthesiology or electrical engineering, etc., etc.

From my experience, people that get into domaining [for the most part] think of it as "easy money" and they generally think that they "are smarter than everyone else". Their perception is that since they are so clever they can register an available domain for $10 and then sell it to a so-called "end user" and make big money.

This is the rule not the exception. IMO

 

[tristanperry]

It may not be limited to domaining but domaining seems to attract this personality type. And it's certainly not true of any professional occupation since these require education, training and specific skill sets. After all, you can't just jump into anesthesiology or electrical engineering, etc., etc.

From my experience, people that get into domaining [for the most part] think of it as "easy money" and they generally think that they "are smarter than everyone else". Their perception is that since they are so clever they can register an available domain for $10 and then sell it to a so-called "end user" and make big money.

This is the rule not the exception. IMO

Loads of things attract this personality type. Whenever there's success, 100 people will try to emulate that success, and 99% will fail.

I agree it doesn't apply to certain trade skills, although it's true of most things - e.g. internet marketing, web design, web development, graphics design, book writing (fiction or non-fiction), numerous offline businesses etc etc.

As I say, when there's success, people will try (and usually fail) to copy it. Going back to my earlier example, internet marketing is a HUGE industry (bigger than domaining), and it has MORE (I'd say as a %) n00bs and people making the industry look bad. Doesn't mean IM is bad though. Nor does it mean that IMers can't also develop 'real' websites.

So to sum up: the problems outlined in this thread (predicated on the fundamental idea that people like 'get rich quick' schemes) aren't limited to domainers. To suggest otherwise suggests a very narrow point of view.

:imho:

Edit: Just to be clear: when I say "very narrow point of view" I mean in the sense that if you try IM, web development, web design and domaining you'll realise that this problem affects all these areas. I didn't mean any offence when saying "very narrow point of view" (Not sure how it sounds hence thought I'd add a quick FYI )

 

[enlytend]

Excellent post, Labrocca!

In-fact, I think that there's more n00bs and spammers in internet marketing than domaining.

Probably true. Unfortunately, a number of domainers seem to be unable to resist the urge to foul the community nest and attract bad press for the entire industry in the process. Tragedy domains, tm squatters, celebrity name squatters, dodgy pricing practices, auction fraud (to name a few). The marketing area has its scammers and spammers, but the bad press seems mainly confined to a few well-deserved verticals.

One of the biggest selling points for a good generic domain is the SEO benefit to having a keyword-match domain, right? Thanks to people exploiting that and peppering the SERPS with shoddy MFA's, I've noticed an increasing amount of "buzz" over the last few months suggesting that Google could reduce spam in the SERPS by reducing the importance of keywords in the domain.

If Google were to follow through with that idea, domain property values would take a serious nosedive.