Domainers. Do they hurt business or do they serve a useful purpose?

[MeanerDomainer]

I assume that most agree that domainers serve a purpose by "discovering" domains.
Also, domainers make the registrars a lot of money and some of that trickles down into the economy.

Day traders serve a real purpose in financial markets by providing liquidity to the market.
Domainers mostly are the domain market, so I don't think that they serve a similar purpose?

A buddy of mine thinks that domainers really hurt small business by squatting on names that should be available to start-up businesses at reg fees.
He thinks that it's similar to this scenario: For whatever reason, there are a bunch of offices for rent right on main street for only $8 per year. Great location, best walk-in traffic, definitely an advantage. Unfortunately, pasty-skinned nerds living in their mother's basements with no intention of ever starting a business rushed to rent those offices for $8 per year and then try to sell them to entrepreneurs who are often lacking on start-up capital for thousands or tens of thousand of dollars. Sometimes the nerds just let the offices sit empty for years, sometimes they put some ads in the windows. The real entropeneurs who cannot afford these 10,000x inflated prices are forced to rent on 11th street, where there is much less traffic, and the business isn't as successful and they cannot hire people and create jobs. He thinks that no-one should be allowed to reg anything unless they will actually use it in a real business within a reasonable timeframe and the websites should be reviewed periodically.

Do domainers overall help or hurt the economy? Or not much impact?

 

[SpareDomains]

A buddy of mine thinks that domainers really hurt small business by squatting on names that should be available to start-up businesses at reg fees.
He thinks that it's similar to this scenario: For whatever reason, there are a bunch of offices for rent right on main street for only $8 per year. Great location, best walk-in traffic, definitely an advantage. Unfortunately, pasty-skinned nerds living in their mother's basements with no intention of ever starting a business rushed to rent those offices for $8 per year and then try to sell them to entrepreneurs who are often lacking on start-up capital for thousands or tens of thousand of dollars. Sometimes the nerds just let the offices sit empty for years, sometimes they put some ads in the windows. The real entropeneurs who cannot afford these 10,000x inflated prices are forced to rent on 11th street, where there is much less traffic, and the business isn't as successful and they cannot hire people and create jobs. He thinks that no-one should be allowed to reg anything unless they will actually use it in a real business within a reasonable timeframe and the websites should be reviewed periodically.

Tell your your buddy he's a poser and a crybaby that can't afford a good domain, if he was a real business he would be able to afford a good domain, since he's a chump he cries like a little girl, I guarantee I make more a year then him and I'm not pasty or live in mom's basement as she is over 1600+ miles away, what I said earlier today applies to your friend http://www.namepros.com/domain-name...atters-according-thehill-com.html#post3670644 you should tell him to come post a picture of himself unless he's a pasty nerd. _\|/_

 

[MeanerDomainer]

Tell your your buddy he's a poser and a crybaby that can't afford a good domain, if he was a real business he would be able to afford a good domain, since he's a chump he cries like a little girl, I guarantee I make more a year then him and I'm not pasty or live in mom's basement as she is over 1600+ miles away, what I said earlier today applies to your friend http://www.namepros.com/domain-name...atters-according-thehill-com.html#post3670644 you should tell him to come post a picture of himself unless he's a pasty nerd. _\|/_

Heh, no reason to take it personally, he wasn't speaking of you specifically... :lol:

Some time ago he tried to buy a domain and the kid who owned it asked a specific amount that equalled the price of a car he wanted to get... The kid did not get his car.

 

[gafadi]

If you are in the domain scene then you need new friends , friends like this arent worth being friends with. Domaining is perfectly legal and like any other trade business eg. real estate , cars and many more.

According to him ,real estate companies shouldn't go into rural area and do the development , plotting and development and bring the area into path of urbanization.

 

[SpareDomains]

I have sold $7 hand registered and $7 dropped domains for $7500, $8200, $6500 I could continue but you get the idea, time is money, how many hours does a domainer sit up scanning for drops, domains for sale etc... the traffic a domain has or the brandability of the domain to an end user is valuable, go price a half or full page ad in a popular magazine and you will see a few thousand for a premo domain is chump change if the domain serves the purpose, I may never sell a million dollar domain but the amount of times I have turned $7 into xxxx numbers tells me other business owners agree the price is right for them.

 

[MeanerDomainer]

If you are in the domain scene then you need new friends , friends like this arent worth being friends with. Domaining is perfectly legal and like any other trade business eg. real estate , cars and many more.

According to him ,real estate companies shouldn't go into rural area and do the development , plotting and development and bring the area into path of urbanization.

He's a good friend, although I have moved, over 1000 miles away since...

That's exactly his point. He doesn't think that sitting on a domain or parking it or developing a domain with the potential to be the foundation of a business for any other reason than a "real" business is equivalent to real estate develpment. (As in ads pasted over the windows but no real business inside the office).

 

[Ronald Regging]

I think SpareDomains has it right on...

All of these people who complain about small businesses not being able to get in the game need to pack up their staplers and their Post-it notes and close up their business before they get too involved, because if they can't understand the basic dynamics of opportunity, than they're in for a long road of failure regardless of what domain they have or don't have.

 

[MeanerDomainer]

I have sold $7 hand registered and $7 dropped domains for $7500, $8200, $6500 I could continue but you get the idea, time is money, how many hours does a domainer sit up scanning for drops, domains for sale etc... the traffic a domain has or the brandability of the domain to an end user is valuable, go price a half or full page ad in a popular magazine and you will see a few thousand for a premo domain is chump change if the domain serves the purpose.

In his world you wouldn't have to scan drop lists because there would be 100,000+% less domains registered because only "legitimate" registrations would be allowed...

He thinks that the $7500 constitutes an unnecessary barrier to entry to small business.

 

[Ronald Regging]

He thinks that the $7500 constitutes an unnecessary barrier to entry to small business.

He's absolutely correct in that sentiment. Spending $7500 on a domain is absolutely unnecessary. He could purchase one for much less or hand reg one. He doesn't need an amazing domain in order to have a presence on the web. But if he wants quality, then he absolutely has to be willing to pay for it. I'm not sure why that is such a hard concept to understand.

 

[MeanerDomainer]

I think SpareDomains has it right on...

All of these people who complain about small businesses not being able to get in the game need to pack up their staplers and their Post-it notes and close up their business before they get too involved, because if they can't understand the basic dynamics of opportunity, than they're in for a long road of failure regardless of what domain they have or don't have.

Probably true. However, let's say that you are trying to start up a small business. You have managed to save only $10k, but fortunately it just covers your modest start-up costs with the exception of the domain name. Luckily, the domain that could make a big contribution in marketing the business happens to be for sale. The price is either $15,000.00 or $8.00.

 

[SpareDomains]

In his world you wouldn't have to scan drop lists because there would be 100,000+% less domains registered because only "legitimate" registrations would be allowed...

He thinks that the $7500 constitutes an unnecessary barrier to entry to small business.

depends on the business, $7500 for a hot dog stand probably not gonna happen, you can price your domains based on existing traffic, brandability, profit margin in the field at hand, etc... experienced sellers will only get better at pricing them as time goes on based on previous experience with end users.

 

[garptrader]

No doubt many small business owners take that view. While some domainers ask ridiculous prices for their domains, a potential buyer has some degree of choice and can always opt for a lower-quality reg fee domain. How much does a typical small business spend on rent, inventory, employees, travel, insurance, legal expenses? And they complain about an acquisition which assuming a non-premium domain is likely a one-time $3000 or less expenditure?

 

[Jaco]

It doesn't matter.
Domain names aren't a meritocracy.
They tried that- early on- when they were free and you had to demonstrate 'need' to register one.

Michael Castillo has told a funny story about getting turned down for a name in the mid 1990's because they felt he was "violating the spirit of the system" by reg'ing an array of generic names that clearly had little to no relevance to his immediate spectrum of interest (he eventually found a way around it :kickass.

The mindset as laid out by your "friend" is the embryonic seeds of communist thinking. People who can't get over the fact that there is little to no 'equality' in life usually find themselves burning up a lot of energy sniveling about those who occupy a more fortunate position than they do.

One thing universally common to every successful man- they look on other successful men with envy, learn from them and endeavor to become more like them. Failed men look on successful men with jealousy and blame them for their own miserable lives. Successful men find solutions to problems or work very, very hard to surmount them, failed men lament over the unduly high 'barriers to entry' that are preventing them from moving forward.

It's entirely a mindset issue. If your friend wants a $15,000 name, then take on a second job for a year and earn $15,000. It's precisely the sort of thing that successful men do. They let nothing stand in the way of their success and are willing to make personal sacrifices to get there.

 

[SpareDomains]

Probably true. However, let's say that you are trying to start up a small business. You have managed to save only $10k, but fortunately it just covers your modest start-up costs with the exception of the domain name. Luckily, the domain that could make a big contribution in marketing the business happens to be for sale. The price is either $15,000.00 or $8.00.

When your a start up you gotta act like a start up, if things go good then down the road your budget will increase, you can't introduce Joe's Pop to the world and expect to have Pepsi's budget, can't drive a Porsche with Ford money in the bank.

 

[MeanerDomainer]

He's absolutely correct in that sentiment. Spending $7500 on a domain is absolutely unnecessary. He could purchase one for much less or hand reg one. He doesn't need an amazing domain in order to have a presence on the web. But if he wants quality, then he absolutely has to be willing to pay for it. I'm not sure why that is such a hard concept to understand.

He understands that. His point is that domainers don't help business, particularly small start-up business.

It's not just about a "presence" on the web. Having designersunglasses.com vs buycheapsunglassesonlinenow.com makes a difference...

 

[wwwweb]

When your a start up you gotta act like a start up, if things go good then down the road your budget will increase, you can't introduce Joe's Pop to the world and expect to have Pepsi's budget, can't drive a Porsche with Ford money in the bank.

This is with anything, a company who obtains mining rights to a gold mine, but does not mine it right away, and someone comes along and wants to mine that gold, and expects it for free, when it has credited deposits, you can say this to any industry.... Domaining is something that is about 15 years young, and not everyone can accept the fact they could have invested $100, and turned it into a million. The people who did believe and invested their $100 or what not back then should not be shunned as greed mongers, because they do not hand over their assets to someone who does not share the same outlook as them. Domainers are not in business to give small businesses free domains, if they want funding apply for gov grants or bank loans, we all have bills to pay, we are not here to subsidize any given industry, it is free market enterprise for all.

 

[Ronald Regging]

They also have these absolutely free methods* of leveling the playing field that are called SEO, marketing and word-of-mouth.


* Disclaimer: The above described methods may actually require you to invest some time and hard work into your business and quite possibly may require you to have a half-decent product or service that customers are happy to tell others about. If these requirements seem unreasonable, continue incessant whining.

 

[wellmanneredsquirrel]

For whatever reason, there are a bunch of offices for rent right on main street for only $8 per year. Great location, best walk-in traffic, definitely an advantage. Unfortunately, pasty-skinned nerds living in their mother's basements with no intention of ever starting a business rushed to rent those offices for $8 per year and then try to sell them to entrepreneurs who are often lacking on start-up capital for thousands or tens of thousand of dollars. Sometimes the nerds just let the offices sit empty for years, sometimes they put some ads in the windows. The real entropeneurs who cannot afford these 10,000x inflated prices are forced to rent on 11th street, where there is much less traffic, and the business isn't as successful and they cannot hire people and create jobs.

I think the initial analogy is not on point. A better analogy would be the following: A new world is discovered. You can claim as much land as you want, as long as you pay the yearly taxes. First come first served... In that analogy, I don't think that anyone would expect to walk to park avenue and buy it for 8$


Domainers are like land developers. Cities, like the Registry, want to own as little land as possible.. they want people to buy land so that they can cash in on the taxes and fund the system.. this is the kind of deal that domainers are willing to take.

Let's not forget that there is a risk associated with owning a domain. You might not be able to resell it "in the money"

Moreover, domainers add liquidity to the market. If it weren't of domainers, buying a domain would be extremely risky. Would you dare paying 20K for a domain knowing that you could only resell to 10 people ?

 

[MeanerDomainer]

It doesn't matter.
Domain names aren't a meritocracy.
They tried that- early on- when they were free and you had to demonstrate 'need' to register one.

Michael Castillo has told a funny story about getting turned down for a name in the mid 1990's because they felt he was "violating the spirit of the system" by reg'ing an array of generic names that clearly had little to no relevance to his immediate spectrum of interest (he eventually found a way around it :kickass.

The mindset as laid out by your "friend" is the embryonic seeds of communist thinking. People who can't get over the fact that there is little to no 'equality' in life usually find themselves burning up a lot of energy sniveling about those who occupy a more fortunate position than they do.

One thing universally common to every successful man- they look on other successful men with envy, learn from them and endeavor to become more like them. Failed men look on successful men with jealousy and blame them for their own miserable lives. Successful men find solutions to problems or work very, very hard to surmount them, failed men lament over the unduly high 'barriers to entry' that are preventing them from moving forward.

It's entirely a mindset issue. If your friend wants a $15,000 name, then take on a second job for a year and earn $15,000. It's precisely the sort of thing that successful men do. They let nothing stand in the way of their success and are willing to make personal sacrifices to get there.

He fully understands how it works.
His point is that domainers (in his opinion) hurt business (with the exception of registrars and any trickle-down effect of spending by registrars). No-one seems willing to try to argue his actual point?

 

[wwwweb]

He fully understands how it works.
His point is that domainers (in his opinion) hurt business (with the exception of registrars and any trickle-down effect of spending by registrars). No-one seems willing to try to argue his actual point?

Do real estate owners and developers hurt business when they ask for a certain rate for property, or retail space from small business, how about city parking, when they increase parking meter rates? This is how the world works, you need to accept if you want something, you have to pay for it, and if you are not willing to, someone else will lol.