Why Domainers Will NEVER Develop Full Blown Sites

[kortex]

First of all wtf am I. I'm freaking nobody but I have a talent for conceptualizing things.

Thesis: All the talk about serious development of sites by domainers is BS. Will never happen on any meaningful scale. Domainers income will continue to consist of two main sources: 1) monetizing their domains via ad revenues 2) re-selling them (mostly to end-users who actually will fully develop them).

1 and 2 correspond to renting and re-sale income in the real estate world respectively.

Here's why things will continue like this indefinitely:

1) Domainers SUCK at developing sites. It's not their thing. If they wanna fully develop they must outsource to someone good (expensive).

2) Fully developing a site requires a lot of investment of money and time. A domain's type-in traffic revenue alone does not justify such investment. Domainers are looking for ROI on their domains and will not accept such a risk/ROI profile.

3) The domain's type-in traffic is absolutely not enough to make the domain a meaningful business player in its vertical. (example: sex.com) Massive investment will be required in marketing (non-type-in traffic acquisition) as well as operating the site on daily basis - overhead, employees, etc. This is the era of "build it and they WON'T come unless you invest a shitload in marketing". Domainers will not make such investments. It's not their core business.

4) Full blown development and operating full blown sites is not domainers' core business. Thus they won't engage in it. For example, running even one "category killer domain" business such as software.com is a full-time gig. Marketing, competition, etc. Domainers don't wanna deal with it. It's not their business.

5) Domainers are like real-estate investors. They can rent and speculate in properties but they're not going to for example own, run and operate a store in one of their buildings. It's not their business.

Real sites will continue to be developed by end-users. There will be very low level cookie-cutter "mass development" which is nothing more than increasing RPM advertising yields for the portfolio. I think development is not the right word to describe that anyway.

 

[tristanperry]

One of the biggest selling points for a good generic domain is the SEO benefit to having a keyword-match domain, right? Thanks to people exploiting that and peppering the SERPS with shoddy MFA's, I've seen it suggested MANY times over the last few months that Google could reduce spam in the SERPS by reducing the importance of keywords in the domain.

If Google were to follow through with that idea, domain property values would take a major nosedive.

I definitely agree with this.

Google did recently tweak things (I think in May and again in June) to try and combat really small MFAs, hence hopefully they won't need to negate the effects of keywords in domains.

You are right, though, that this would harm domain prices a fair amount. I doubt it'd affect the 'quality' domain market as much (i.e. domains which are truly brandable and/or desirable), although overall it'd have a pretty big effect I agree.

 

[the_poet]

I absolutely agree with the OP. IMHO the only exception to this is only when a webmaster/web developer comes into domaining. Development isn't in a domainer's nature.

 

[labrocca]

This is true of absolutely everything in life; it's not limited to domainers

I personally enjoy challenging work. That's why I've always developed while waiting for my domains to sell. I put 10-14 hours a day into my websites.

From my experience, people that get into domaining [for the most part] think of it as "easy money" and they generally think that they "are smarter than everyone else". Their perception is that since they are so clever they can register an available domain for $10 and then sell it to a so-called "end user" and make big money.

My experience as well.

tristanperry on a side note...been watching Firefly this week on Netflix. Wow it's good. So sad they only got one season.

One of the biggest selling points for a good generic domain is the SEO benefit to having a keyword-match domain, right?

That's why I like hanging out in domainer forums looking for a score. It's actually easier to find a $50 keyword rich domain than registering one.

I've noticed an increasing amount of "buzz" over the last few months suggesting that Google could reduce spam in the SERPS by reducing the importance of keywords in the domain.

The difficulty in that is what would replace the importance? Would it be more keyword stuffing? Would it be links? Everyone will just alter their SEO and continue to game Google. I personally at least feel keyword rich domains are a benefit to the web but only if site is not parked. Google should just blacklist any domain that's parked from it's service forever. That would end PPC parking immediately as everyone scrambled to remove their sites from Sedo, Parked, and Fabulous.

 

[tristanperry]

I personally enjoy challenging work. That's why I've always developed while waiting for my domains to sell. I put 10-14 hours a day into my websites.

Yep I do agree. I've spent 10+ hours on websites before and I definitely enjoy it. Development can definitely be lots of fun. I personally love both domaining and development (pitty the domain market isn't too hot right now), although as you say below, it's even better getting the best of both Worlds ^^

That's why I like hanging out in domainer forums looking for a score. It's actually easier to find a $50 keyword rich domain than registering one.

Ugh, keyword research. Lol yeah, finding a 'good' keyword domain to hand-reg isn't much fun, and there are definitely some good domains going for a great price on the domain forums.

tristanperry on a side note...been watching Firefly this week on Netflix. Wow it's good. So sad they only got one season.

It's brilliant, still can't believe (10 years on :lol how Fox handled (then cancelled!) it.

 

[Sparhawke]

Dillusion. Domainers do not provide a "great service". Do you really think anyone paying top dollar for a domain from a domainer thinks "oh thank god this was registered by a squatter". And trust me they think that all domainers are basically squatters.

If a domainer is good then yes, he will be providing a service by doing all the research and priming a domain to get all the traffic for someone.

The reason why we have this identity of being squatters is because of a few greedy typo thieves at the top of the foodchain like Kevin Ham.

It is simply real estate economics, if you have never heard of a domain then you have never heard of it, if a domainer came to my business and told me he had a domain that was getting 5x the traffic organically and naturally then I would at least hear him out, but the mentality must be that if that happens you must be a scammer of some kind, surely you cannot have a domain that is better than the company owner registered?

The prevailing idea still is that an untutored, unschooled kid from the wrong side of the tracks cannot possibly have any clue about business therefore it is not possible that their domains are better than anyone elses.

A good domainer will find a way around that objection and embarrassment...something that is easier said than done.

On what basis do you come up with that? Domains were $75 per year from Netsol. Heck they were free at first. Netsol has gotten rich from reg fees but realistically a non-profit could run the internet and domains could be $2 each even with low volume.

I come up with that on the basis of past history. Have you ever heard of the daylight tax when people were forced to pay money for windows, people escaped to America to pay less tax and now we live in one of the most ridiculously taxed centuries in history.

Times change and it doesn't matter if they were free one time, or could be $2.

If that was so then why do new extensions come out every so often costing sometimes up to $200?

The difficulty in that is what would replace the importance? Would it be more keyword stuffing? Would it be links? Everyone will just alter their SEO and continue to game Google. I personally at least feel keyword rich domains are a benefit to the web but only if site is not parked. Google should just blacklist any domain that's parked from it's service forever. That would end PPC parking immediately as everyone scrambled to remove their sites from Sedo, Parked, and Fabulous.

I partially agree with this, nowadays I hear parking does not bring in the revenue it once did to make it worthwhile yet people still jealously guard their domains so no one else can have a try...

Yes, some domains will sink in value for a couple of years but it would have the other effect of setting off the next generation explosion in development, that has been hamstrung by people just holding domains for next to no reason.

(including the registrars that can afford to hold millions of them for ransom..)

But, they will not do this. Google gets a huge amount of money from parked domains and just stopping from using adverts on these will make people find other providers which will pay more.

 

[Kate]

Dillusion. Domainers do not provide a "great service". Do you really think anyone paying top dollar for a domain from a domainer thinks "oh thank god this was registered by a squatter". And trust me they think that all domainers are basically squatters.

The bottom line is that domainers are like stock investors, they invest in domains for their own benefit and that's it.

The problem is that when you're a domainer and can develop great sites you're no longer a domainer.

Most seasoned domainers that I know have developed websites, even if they don't always have great webdesign skills. But they tend to be early Internet users and quite knowledgeable. I don't think you can really succeed in this business if you don't understand how the Internet works.

I've seen a few here transition from domainer to developer. I've never seen the reverse.

Well before I got into domaining I used to develop more. I may be an exception but my focus has shifted toward domaining.
Nowadays, it's not hard to build a website. Actually you don't even have to build anything, just use a CMS and a free template that you can customize, and here you go. You just have to add content. Obviously the quality of content is critical. There is a difference between setting up an average site and setting up a great site. Turning a website into a real business is not something everyone can succeed at either.

So you can be a developer and a domainer at the same time, but these are still two different things. I notice that 'development' is often hailed as the way out to people have failed at domaining. But I don't think development is the answer, most of the time. First of all, what kind of development are we talking about. Crappy sites will never make you rich. Only hard work and dedication will.

That's another guru that started in the 90's. Find me examples of anyone starting in the last 3 years.

There are people who have come late to the game: Giode, cfguru360 (Matt), Aron Meystedt , Andrew Reberry... just a few names I have in mind right now.
It's never too late, it's a business like any other. It's tough but you can succeed if you do get 'it'.

 

[ctbon]

At least we exist to sort out the wheat from the chaff and make the internet a reasonably stable economy, so that people know that 935h90n7w5hpawur-aiwyr83-uk.com is not worth more than cars.com

I think upon separating the wheat from the chaff, we stockpile the wheat and leave nothing but chaff for end users who want to actually contribute something other than parked pages to the internet. I think any reasonable person would know that cars.com is more valuable than 935h90n7w5hpawur-aiwyr83-uk.com. Let's stop pretending to be more than we are which is opportunistic arbitrage players who contribute little to the internet but hopefully a lot to ourselves. :imho:

 

[enlytend]

I personally at least feel keyword rich domains are a benefit to the web but only if site is not parked. Google should just blacklist any domain that's parked from it's service forever.

They'll never get rid of the signal completely - so many businesses have a domain that matches the business and they SHOULD rank easily for the business name. Banned forever for parking? Hmmm - kind of extreme - they already don't index domains from major parking services, once they realize they're parked, and since they have their OWN parking service ... I'm thinking that has the same likelihood of happening as that fabled snowball in hell.

By the same token, 5 pages of respun Wikipedia with 3 adblocks and 3 link groups per page shouldn't outrank relevant sites just because of a keyword domain.

I put 10-14 hours a day into my websites.

Same here (time permitting - I have my clients too.) I've gone as far as to take classes on topics so I can produce better content for my sites. I've ridden a keyword domain or two to good rankings myself , but I try to give my visitors something of value when they get there. In the end, it pays off ...for everyone.

 

[Sparhawke]

I think upon separating the wheat from the chaff, we stockpile the wheat and leave nothing but chaff for end users who want to actually contribute something other than parked pages to the internet. I think any reasonable person would know that cars.com is more valuable than 935h90n7w5hpawur-aiwyr83-uk.com. Let's stop pretending to be more than we are which is opportunistic arbitrage players who contribute little to the internet but hopefully a lot to ourselves. :imho:

You know what still pisses me off?

That I wasn't born 500 years ago so I couldn't buy up the area around Kensington and such places for future generations.

The example I gave there was on the extreme end of the scale...okay it was on the extreme-extreme end but my point still stands.

A domainers job at the end of the day is not to hold domains but to provide liquity (sp?)

If millions of domains drop every week then who catches those potentially valuable domains that slip through the net and put them back on the market?

If the same thing happened with antiques and art the would be a global outcry and you know it :p

Of course with every market we will end up with the entire spectrum, those who want volume of sales and happy customers who will recommend us to others at the golf clubs and those who feel it is their duty to hold onto domains and squeeze out the last drop of blood even if it means someone walks away.

 

[ComKid]

Developers hold themselves to very high standards with what they do..... and rightly so. Especially when compared to a non-developer. But this breeds privileged behavior that many times leads to generalizations about how buying and investing has to entail developing.....two totally seperate motivations within the industry. I am not surprised this subject is so controversial but for some reason some domainers and developers like to ride the segregated bus (and it's always seems to be a short one) where one doesn't sit with the other. Yet both are just as equally important in what they do and rely on each other to do so.

I believe the whole misconception by developers is mostly brought on by what I call Developmental Endowment Syndrome or DES, from having been or facing being hired by non-developers and domainers. Seeing people who haven't built a website with a website address making a decent living......especially after the developer does their hard work, would leave me a little bitter too. It's a strange relationship working harder for less but people do what they can in this day and age. If I were a hard core developer I would consider domaining if it meant making more money doing less on the side.

People who have some development skills and who register multiple domain names for the pursuit of a conceived business or profit venture in addition to possible developmental ambitions.... are in essence domainers. That is called domaining. I believe most developers are domainers to a degree. If domainers and/or developers want to develop a website with theirs or someone else's developmental skills.....they can. If they want to develop someone else's domain name for them....they can. Doesn't matter if you are a domainer or developer....you can! Don't limit yourself to limited skill sets. Learn domaining and developing..... there is such a critter! Just keep learning!

 

[ctbon]

A domainers job at the end of the day is not to hold domains but to provide liquity (sp?)

If millions of domains drop every week then who catches those potentially valuable domains that slip through the net and put them back on the market?

If the same thing happened with antiques and art the would be a global outcry and you know it :p

I used to be a day trader and used the same argument (providing liquidity) to justify my work but in the end I resigned myself to the fact that it was about the money and not fooling myself into thinking that I was doing something valuable in the world.

It's okay that it's just about the money...because hopefully that money will go to things that are important to us...family, new businesses, travel, etc. and that will have a positive effect on the world...maybe in small measure, maybe in large.

We are middle-men, pure and simple. If a domain 'slips through the net' and goes back onto the market no one will be upset. Middle men can help facilitate sales but that's about it. This is a classic justification of 'if I don't get it, someone else will'. I don't think there would be much outcry if art and antique dealers dropped off the planet either as long as there was a way for end users to deal directly with each other. They certainly have their use now but in the future maybe not.

 

[enlytend]

If millions of domains drop every week then who catches those potentially valuable domains that slip through the net ?

The person who checks the droplists? The person who goes to register the name they want and discover it's available !

If the same thing happened with antiques and art the would be a global outcry and you know it

Letting a domain drop and remain unregistered is hardly the same as tossing a priceless piece of art pottery in the trash .

 

[snoop]

That's another guru that started in the 90's. Find me examples of anyone starting in the last 3 years.

You'll struggle, because the tide has gone against wealth creation over the last 3 years. It is a bit like trying to find people who have made loads of money from stocks over the last 3 years.

The only cases that seem to get touted these days are examples not backed up by actual numbers, ie

-Blogger XXX is doing well......(from blogging?)
-So and so has developed xxxx.com......
-Person X is going really well with cctlds (despite the cctld in question only ever seeing a handful of 4 figure sales reported each month).

It is all just small money stuff. The ease of which money can be made has degraded severely in the last 5 or so years. The market has tightened right up in terms of flipping to the point where a short term flip is rarely reported, prices and PPC revenue have fallen, but in terms of buying names for traffic the multiples seem to be much the same as 2007. (ie prices and PPC revenue have fallen together)

Personally I'm not big on the current market, I don't see really clear opportunities like there was say in 2002-2005, today it is more like a gamble....or a day job. Maybe this is simply the maturing of the market or maybe we will see better opportunities in the future.

 

[Sparhawke]

Letting a domain drop and remain unregistered is hardly the same as tossing a priceless piece of art pottery in the trash .

Not exactly the same thing, but near enough.

If this guy hadn't recognised what he was looking at it may have ended up in the attic for another 100 years :p

Antiques dealer buys old junk at car boot sale ... and picks up 1,300-year-old 'Knights Templar' relic | Mail Online

How long can we make this debate last? lol :p

It seems like it is going to go on forever, the early bbs sysops hate the fact that html came along, those early adopters hate that companies came, they hate that they had to invest everything to make the internet what it is, domainers hate developers for being able to do something with names, developers hate domainers for having all the cool names and end users hate everyone :p

Might as well pin labels to everyones backs singling them out as jocks, geeks, cheerleaders and let everyone just start kicking each other.

 

[ComKid]

How can so many people agree with someone who is so full of it! :D

No disrespect, but.....

Broad brush generalizations are always blatantly false as was posted. If he were speaking of a few particular domainers he knew personally then I might tend to agree more if he spoke definitively and fairly.

There are a lot of great view points from responders that set straight their own thoughts on the allegations individually.... but I think agreeing with the initial posters critique of domainers totally, as the vote choice states, is like agreeing that everyone that was at Woodstock instead of volunteering to go to Vietnam..... hates America.
These are just sweeping allegations in tune with Developers Endowment Syndrome (DES).

 

[Kassey Lee]

I personally enjoy challenging work. That's why I've always developed while waiting for my domains to sell. I put 10-14 hours a day into my websites.

Exactly my attitude.

 

[ComKid]

Not exactly the same thing, but near enough.

If this guy hadn't recognised what he was looking at it may have ended up in the attic for another 100 years :p

Antiques dealer buys old junk at car boot sale ... and picks up 1,300-year-old 'Knights Templar' relic | Mail Online

How long can we make this debate last? lol :p

If I had Antique Endowment Syndrome...or AES, I would speculate that the dealer who found the relic doesn't have a good enough museum to keep the relic in and thus doesn't deserve to own it....that takes away from the value to the ultimate end user of a well kept relic.


If he wants to donate it to Goodwill..... or sell it for $1 million dollars..... or just let it sit in his attic for the next 50 years.....that is his choice and anyone with good sound constitutional judgement won't disregard his rights to do what he wants. We can say what might be better for the relic especially in light of everyone knowing we could take better care of it ourselves :hehe:..... but voicing the wimpy generalized arguments over privileged endowment really should get people thinking more about what is everyone's right to do.... NOT what people think is a more justified right.

The only things I can agree with are......

First of all wtf am I. I'm freaking nobody but I have a talent for conceptualizing things.

and...

Domainers income will continue to consist of two main sources: 1) monetizing their domains via ad revenues 2) re-selling them (mostly to end-users who actually will fully develop them).

I like this prediction!! I hope he is right. Remember...both non-developing and developing domainers can monetize and resell.

 

[Sparhawke]

If he wants to donate it to Goodwill..... or sell it for $1 million dollars..... or just let it sit in his attic for the next 50 years.....that is his choice and anyone with good sound constitutional judgement won't disregard his rights to do what he wants. We can say what might be better for the relic especially in light of everyone knowing we could take better care of it ourselves..... but voicing the wimpy generalized arguments over privileged endowment really should get people thinking more about what is everyone's right to do.... NOT what people think is a more justified right.

huh?

One thing you will quickly learn about me is that I am straight down the line and say what I mean, I speak in laymans terms.

Your post just confused the hell out of me when you started talking about "constitutional judgment", "priviledged endowment" and "justified right"

Any chance someone can translate it for me?

My point with the whole thrust of the post is that sometimes priceless artifacts slip through the cracks and it takes someone with fresh eyes to recognise the potential, lest they end up on the junk pile or in the bin.

It has nothing to do with bagging a bargain.

Regardless of how you view domainers, droplist watchers or expired domain resellers the fact is that domains that are going to disappear and be lost are found, tidied up and put back on the market for people to find.

Now, elite keywords will never get to that point, but what happens when a butcher in Birmingham is looking for that perfect domain that tells everyone where he is and what he does? He can of course do his own searching and his own research and get a domain name himself, or he can buy it off someone who has already approached him and let him know it is available.

So long as prices are not inflated beyond all sense and reason it retain its value quite well, and be a good investment. But I have seen some mediocre names on the face of it that could fit a business perfectly in a particular geo-region priced way beyond the reach of normal mortals.

It is those who demand $10,000+ for domain names that have no one willing to pay that price that do the most damage to everyones reputation, not those who simply set a reasonable reserve and let market forces dictate the price it eventually reaches.

It may be the goal of everyone here to squeeze 100% of a domains value out of everyone they encounter but I prefer to leave some leeway, at a point where I can walk away with a good profit and where someone else doesn't wake up in the morning dreading that his wife is going to kill him for spending his childrens inheritance and college money on a white elephant.

If a domain does get $30/mo in natural traffic revenue then it is not unreasonable to start off the bidding at $300 based on that and let it go from there, so long as you let people know why you believe it is worth that much. If you have that much money coming in anyway people will at least know that it is a good investment. It is those that demand $30,000+ that make people scratch their heads.

 

[ComKid]

huh?

One thing you will quickly learn about me is that I am straight down the line and say what I mean, I speak in laymans terms.

Your post just confused the hell out of me when you started talking about "constitutional judgment", "priviledged endowment" and "justified right"

Any chance someone can translate it for me?

Sure...sometimes layman's terms can only do so much. :P

Constitutional judgement - what is lacking when developers think domain owners don't have equal rights to buy, own, save, sell, trade, lease a domain name....unless your a developer. These viewpoints usually conclude that developers should be the rightful heirs to domains based on a hired skill hierarchy of development.

Privileged endowment - meaning self imposed "rights" to land use contrary to what should be everyone's right to do so even without development.... and justified rights are descriptives for the notion some developers get from that misconception.

My point with the whole thrust of the post is that sometimes priceless artifacts slip through the cracks and it takes someone with fresh eyes to recognise the potential, lest they end up on the junk pile or in the bin.

Please excuse me for making my point via your post without clarification. I was merely stifling the opposing viewpoint through comparison to your link story on the newfound relic. I wasn't following point....thus probably the confusion. I agree with your stance on most everything you have posted in this thread.

 

[labrocca]

If that was so then why do new extensions come out every so often costing sometimes up to $200?

Actually that's funny you mention this. Those are usually sunrise prices and most sunrise domains are sold to domainers. Proves my point more than yours.

Sparhawke you seem like a bright guy but you also seem new to all this with limited experience. I've had domains over 15 years now. Your view seems one-sided and slanted toward your own impressions not on a well-rounded view of all sides.

So you can be a developer and a domainer at the same time, but these are still two different things.

True but have you ever seen a developer get into domaining and think "hmm...domaining is great I'm going to stop development". However I firmly believe that domainers do move into development and leave domaining behind them. It's imho one of the lowest positions on the internet totem pole. Sorry guys...just my view. And considering how often we have these type of threads where a random person comes in here with that same attitude I think it's obvious how many others believe this concept too. Does anyone really believe that most people misunderstand all domainers as cybersquatters?

I notice that 'development' is often hailed as the way out to people have failed at domaining.

I think I had medium success personally in domaining. My best year was mid $xx,xxx income. Of course it's easy work so that's one of the best things but the income is inconsistent versus websites which only fluctuate maybe 10% month over month...usually growth too. How often can a domainer say their PPC is growing 40% per year without acquiring more domains?

But I don't think development is the answer, most of the time. First of all, what kind of development are we talking about.

I'm currently into communities and forums. I've been in-tune with forums for a decade. I suck at blogging. I sort of need threads and posts to respond to. I'm just better at that than writing blog articles. It's my argumentative nature.

I believe most developers are domainers to a degree.

I think to be a domainer you just have to be in the domain marketplace as a buyer or seller on a regular basis. You're just not a domainer if you bought 5 domains in 2002 and have them parked all this time. At least that's my view. Same though about not being a developer if you signed up at blogger.com and make a couple new blog posts every year. I'd like to think there is some professionalism to both domaining and development. And certainly one does not have to be exclusive to the other. I consider myself both without a problem but certainly I lean toward developer at this junction. About 5 years ago I was more into the domain market.

I used to be a day trader and used the same argument (providing liquidity) to justify my work but in the end I resigned myself to the fact that it was about the money and not fooling myself into thinking that I was doing something valuable in the world.

Thank you for the honesty. I just think most people find ways to justify what they do as the righteous thing when in fact it's almost always self-serving. No one likes to think of themselves as the bad guy in an equation.

I don't think there would be much outcry if art and antique dealers dropped off the planet either as long as there was a way for end users to deal directly with each other.

I certainly don't see the masses crying about the music labels going broke. Same thing. If there was a do-over in domain registration trust me there would be different rules and laws.

It is a bit like trying to find people who have made loads of money from stocks over the last 3 years.

Money 70: The best funds you can buy - CNNMoney.com

Always someone is making money...always. In times of war, famine, and economic strife.

The only cases that seem to get touted these days are examples not backed up by actual numbers, ie

If you want PM me and I'll give you my best forum if you don't already know about it. You can see for yourself.

I don't see really clear opportunities like there was say in 2002-2005,[/quite]

Unfortunately snoop you're one of the pure domainers that doesn't even dabble in development. I think that's why you feel that way. No one disputes that the internet is still growing and more users are coming online. Yet why aren't domains rising in value? I think it's because many are lowering their value on keyword domains and some of the best sitse online are using brandables. Would any of these sold for $x,xxx before they became big? Youtube.com, Twitter.com, Flickr.com, Google.com, Facebook.com, Yahoo.com, Baidu.com, Linkedin.com, or Wikipedia.org. These are mainly mediocre domains. View alexa top 100 and you get the distinct feeling that domain keywords are not as important to the success of a site as domainers like to upsell. And it is an upsell.

As for these art dealer analogies. Do you realize how often art is based solely on the price the dealer sets? $200 worth of paint and 30 hours of work and the dealer decides it's a $25k painting. Only because he knows the buyers are willing to pay that. Same thing for domains. Buyers only have to decide they're okay with a $2000 print and that $25k painting has suddenly dropped in price. I think that's part of what's happening in domaining. Buyers are just shopping for the best deals and unwilling to overpay for mediocre domains. You gotta have real proof of value nowadays.

If I had Antique Endowment Syndrome...or AES

I think you just want to say you're well endowed.

It is those who demand $10,000+ for domain names that have no one willing to pay that price that do the most damage to everyones reputation, not those who simply set a reasonable reserve and let market forces dictate the price it eventually reaches.

And you just lost a huge standing in your argument imho because you'll find a large portion of domainers willing to gouge for the $xx,xxx price for any domain when they get an offer. The go-for-it attitude is common. Try doing some inquiries at Sedo and see for yourself. Just look at weekly sales at DNjournal for a slew of sales where the seller went for it. Crap domains sell for $x,xxx then you get weak domainers with the "I have better" mentality thinking they can get more. I saw Insurance.com sold for $35 million and immediately someone responds in a thread about their own insurancekeyword.com domain being upped in value.

This week a few notables of overpriced domains.
paywall.com $4000
thisismysong.com $2450
vermicompost.com $3000 (probably a TM cybersquatter sale)

It may be the goal of everyone here to squeeze 100% of a domains value out of everyone they encounter but I prefer to leave some leeway

Good for you but based on my experience domainers want to squeeze 1000% out of domains.

If a domain does get $30/mo in natural traffic revenue then it is not unreasonable to start off the bidding at $300 based on that and let it go from there, so long as you let people know why you believe it is worth that much.

Top domainers would laugh at you. Most want 5-10 years minimum and some want 20 years now. You'll find one day all your good domains sold and no ability to make income if you continue that way.