What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster?

[MapleDots]

I'm catching the tail end of this, seems to be some kind of controversy...

https://domaingang.com/domain-news/rob-monster-off-twitter-after-christchurch-massacre-controversy/

Must be something odd to evoke this type of a response from one of our members.

 

[TCK]

What verses are you relying on

if you are going to teach that (liberal) reading of scripture

My interpretation is more literal than liberal as you will see. If you let it, the Bible will interpret itself.

I will use the KJV since it appears to be your preferred translation. It's not mine since the English language is antiquated and no longer used, but nevertheless, here goes :

Gen. 3:19 "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

Eccl. 9:5 "The dead know not a thing"

Eccl. 9:10 "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

Ps. 13:3 "Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;"

Ps. 104:29 "thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust."

Ps. 146:4 "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."

Isa. 26:14 "They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish."

Eze. 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Rom. 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Rom. 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Joh. 11:11 "These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep."

Joh. 11:12 "Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well."

Joh. 11:13 "Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep."

Joh. 11:14 "Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead."

Death is compared to sleep.

The payment for sin is death, not life in some other dimension.

The Greek text for "everlasting" is pretty clear:

Everlasting does not indicate a living or conscious state unless explicitly indicated as in "everlasting life".

 

[Rob Monster]

My interpretation is more literal than liberal as you will see. If you let it, the Bible will interpret itself.

I will use the KJV since it appears to be your preferred translation. It's not mine since the language is antiquated and no longer used, but nevertheless, here goes :

Gen. 3:19 "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

Eccl. 9:5 "The dead know not a thing"

Eccl. 9:10 "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

Ps. 13:3 "Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;"

Ps. 104:29 "thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust."

Ps. 146:4 "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."

Isa. 26:14 "They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish."

Eze. 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Rom. 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Rom. 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Joh. 11:11 "These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep."

Joh. 11:12 "Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well."

Joh. 11:13 "Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep."

Joh. 11:14 "Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead."

Death is compared to sleep.

The payment for sin is death, not life in some other dimension.



Everlasting does not indicate a living or conscious state unless explicitly indicated as in "everlasting life".

Dear Tom -

I think you are playing with major fire with your references. Scripture is clear that we reap what we sow. The metaphor of sowing and reaping is used throughout the Bible.

We sow natural terrestrial bodies. We reap spiritual bodies.

1 Corinthians 15 is pretty clear about it. When we die, the terrestrial body becomes dust. At the resurrection, a spiritual body appears.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 1 Cor 15:22-24

And a bit later:

But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 1 Cor 35-40

The promise of being awaken from the dust of the earth hails back to the great OT book of Daniel:

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. - Daniel 12:2

You are free to believe as you like. However, if you teach someone that unregenerate man has nothing to fear, you are doing them a monumental disservice and I actually think you know this to be true.

 

[TCK]

I think you are playing with major fire with your refernces.

Dear Rob,

I simply quoted you related texts. They speak for themselves.

If you don't like what you read, your issue is not with me.

Sincerely,
Tom

 

[Rob Monster]

Dear Rob,

I simply quoted you related texts. They speak for themselves.

If you don't like what you read. Your issue is not with me.

Sincerely,
Tom

Believe as you like but if you teach nonsense on this thread, I will call you out every time.

 

[TCK]

Believe as you like but if you teach nonsense on this thread, I will call you out every time.

Back at you. In this case, I think I called you out. You are now arguing against the plain truth laid out in my post above.

 

[Rob Monster]

Back at you. In this case, I think I called you out. You are now arguing against the plain truth laid out in my post above.

We will definitely have to agree to disagree on the fate of unregenerate man. You apparently think they simply cease to exist. I clearly think otherwise and cited what I consider to be unambiguous scripture.

Now, pray tell, what will happen to those who are saved and in Christ Jesus. Please explain what you think will happen to them when they die, and the subsequent state of their eternal soul.

 

[TCK]

Now, pray tell, what will happen to those who are saved and in Christ Jesus. Please explain what you think will happen to them when they die, and the subsequent state of their eternal soul.

I will let the scriptures answer that for you. In order to have the true understanding of the scriptures our interpretation of any given text must harmonize with the entire Bible.

Joh. 11:24 "Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

2 Tim. 2:18 "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."

Rev. 16:16 "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

Rev. 19:19 "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army."

Rev. 19:20 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Rev. 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Rev. 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

Rev. 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Rev. 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Rev. 21: 1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Rev. 21:2 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Rev. 21:3 "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

Rev. 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

Rev. 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

 

[TCK]

@Rob Monster, also wrap your head around this truth:

Acts 2:34 "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,"

Once you have all the pieces, it all makes perfect sense.

 

[TCK]

the subsequent state of their eternal soul.

As you have read in the KJV, the teaching of the "eternal soul", the idea that part of you keeps living and will never die, is non-biblical.

Eze. 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

In fact, the eternal soul idea originated with Satan and spread into Babylonian and pagan religions:

Gen 3:4 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:"

Gen 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Today nearly all religions teach that death is merely a transformation into another form of life.

 

[Rob Monster]

I will let the scriptures answer that for you. In order to have the true understanding of the scriptures our interpretation of any given text must harmonize with the entire Bible.

Joh. 11:24 "Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

2 Tim. 2:18 "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Rev. 16:16 "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

Rev. 19:19 "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army."

Rev. 19:20 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Rev. 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Rev. 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

Rev. 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Rev. 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Rev. 21: 1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Rev. 21:2 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Rev. 21:3 "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

Rev. 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

Rev. 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

By definition, that is a scriptural answer. It is relatively uninspired, and probably is of little help to the reader as non-diligent seekers would likely be overwhelmed by it. For most: tl;dr aka "did not read".

For the benefit of the general audience, I will try to distill an answer to my question simply and phrase it in in my own words:

The Holy Spirit filled Christian has been born again, in the spirit, in Christ Jesus. At the resurrection, at the last trump of God, those with saved souls will be individually transformed into an eternal glorified body, filled with light, yet retaining recognizable appearance, memories and personality.

Now, assuming you agree with that simple statement of the prophesied eternal future of regenerate man, would you not want that for everyone?

 

[TCK]

The Holy Spirit filled Christian has been born again, in the spirit, in Christ Jesus. At the resurrection, at the last trump of God, those with saved souls will be individually transformed into an eternal glorified body, filled with light, yet retaining recognizable appearance, memories and personality.

I think you will run into some issues and perplexing questions after comparing that statement to the cited texts. For example, the cited texts clearly speak of the problems of the earth being removed. So who goes to heaven and who remains on the "new" earth?

Rev. 21: 1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Rev. 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

Rev. 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

So clearly death, pain, and suffering will be removed from the earth. If all saved souls go to heaven, who will enjoy this new wonderful earth?

Also, if the resurrection takes place in the "last day", where are the dead now?

 

[Rob Monster]

As you have read in the KJV, the teaching of the "eternal soul", the idea that part of you keeps living and will never die, is non-biblical.

Eze. 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

In fact, the eternal soul idea originated with Satan and spread into Babylonian and pagan religions:

Gen 3:4 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:"

Gen 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Today nearly all religions teach that death is merely a conversion into another form of life.

Although it is not popular to preach the existence of a literal hell, I think the warning is pretty clear in the verbatim statement of Jesus Christ himself speaking to the apostles:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

Regardless of whether the unregenerate man will have eternal consciousness in hell, I hope we can agree that eternity in Christ would be a better option. Yes?

 

[TCK]

Although it is not popular to preach the existence of a literal hell, I think the warning is pretty clear in the verbatim statement of Jesus Christ himself speaking to the apostles:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28

Regardless of whether the unregenerate man will have eternal consciousness in hell, I hope we can agree that eternity in Christ would be a better option. Yes?

First off. You just contradicted your theory of the eternal soul by quoting that the soul can be destroyed.

Also, you have not answered the question as to who will enjoy the new earth, and if the resurrection is a future one, where are the dead (good or bad) now.

Joh. 11:24 "Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Rev. 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

Rev. 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

 

[Rob Monster]

I think you will run into some issues and perplexing questions after comparing that statement to the cited texts. For example, the cited texts clearly speak of the problems of the earth being removed. So who goes to heaven and who remains on the "new" earth?

Rev. 21: 1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Rev. 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

Rev. 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

So clearly death, pain, and suffering will be removed from the earth. If all saved souls go to heaven, who will enjoy this new wonderful earth?

Also, if the resurrection takes place in the "last day", where are the dead now?

Those who died in Christ are alive in the spirit with souls in tact but bodiless. You see it clearly in Revelation 6:9 -- these are saved souls awaiting their glorified bodies.

At the resurrection, specific to regenerate man, the outlook is clear and applies to both those who are alive at the time, and also to those who have died physically in the meantime:

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52

During the millennial kingdom, my reading is that many of those glorified bodies will rule and reign with Christ right here on earth. I believe these same persons will have access to heaven as the angels do today.

After the millennial kingdom, of 1000 years, we have the Great White Throne judgement when unregenerate man is resurrected and judged.

Incidentally, ICYMI, the angels are also judged by glorified man (see 1 Corinthians 6:3). I believe this is the main reason why the angels take an interest in the well-being of man (see 1 Peter 1:12).

Our finite mortal life on earth is just the testing ground for life in eternity. We have free will to figure out the truth, and to apply these truths to our lives.

 

[TCK]

if you teach someone that unregenerate man has nothing to fear, you are doing them a monumental disservice and I actually think you know this to be true.

Do you think that a loving God would want people to worship him out of fear? That's unthinkable. Frankly, that idea turns people off of religion. No. He wants people to worship him out of love.

Deut. 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"

Deut. 30:20 "That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."

Death is non-existence. Life promised in this context is more than simply existence or survival. But a life full of joy that comes from a relationship with the Creator of the universe. I think any normal person would prefer a happy life over death any day. And death is something people fear. Sometimes not until it is imminent.

 

[TCK]

Our finite mortal life on earth is just the testing ground for life in eternity.

What text do you base that on?

 

[Rob Monster]

Do you think that a loving God would want people to worship him out of fear? That's unthinkable. Frankly, that idea turns people off of religion. No. He wants people to worship him out of love.

Deut. 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"

Deut. 30:20 "That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."

Death is non-existence. Life promised in this context is more than simply existence or survival. But a life full of joy that comes from a relationship with the Creator of the universe. I think any normal person would prefer a happy life over death any day. And death is something people fear. Sometimes not until it is imminent.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. - Proverbs 9:10

I think it is pretty clear.

The problem with much of humanity is that they don't fear God. The God of the universe who knows every hair on your head (see Luke 12:7) actually knows every atom in your being. The atom itself of which all matter is presumed to be comprised has design and structure, as does every living cell.

The secular humanists and atheists presume that life is simply random, and that therefore they are accountable to nobody but their fellow man as they would sovereignly choose for themselves without consideration for an all-knowing, all-seeing and all-encompassing God of the universe.

Here is what God thinks of them:

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. - Psalm 14:1

And on that note, see my related Tweet in reply to Andrew Yang when he was trying to figure out why liberals tend not to follow conservatives on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/robmonster/status/1144659354412605440

 

[TCK]

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. - Proverbs 9:10

OK. How would you reconcile both fearing God and loving him at the same time? Would you truly love someone that would threaten you with a lifetime (or more) of fiery pain if you cross them?

 

[Rob Monster]

What text do you base that on?

Take your pick:

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Testing

 

[Wesley S]

are we not all right and all wrong? Is it not to clean the spirit thru time, that any of us exist. Think about it, God is love, he will not see what is love by his almighty will, the darkness is what it is. The darkness. God is life forever, as we are born and entered into a temporary time period we feed the life forever and our shells pass away and we rejoin the spirit that is forever. Meanwhile we are living and filtering, by carrying the sins of earth to the grave, thus cleaning another spirit line, of our life we give back to heaven as we separate in death as skin to the ground.