What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster?

[MapleDots]

I'm catching the tail end of this, seems to be some kind of controversy...

https://domaingang.com/domain-news/rob-monster-off-twitter-after-christchurch-massacre-controversy/

Must be something odd to evoke this type of a response from one of our members.

 

[Rob Monster]

Can you believe this m

The courts make the call in the jurisdiction where the host or registrar operates. Epik cooperates with court orders. As for the USA, free speech is still the law of the land, which is why these issues are being tried in the court of public opinion, and not through a competent judicial process. At least, not yet. More here:

https://www.aclu.org/other/your-right-free-expression

Here is an example of Newsweek using Free Speech.

Is there any validity to it? Is it a productive thing that it would generate 11,000 comments on Twitter. No, not really, but it sure does start conversations.

Free speech requires discernment, including the burden to discern which news sources are either toxic for your soul, e.g. much of Huffington Post, or just nonsense, e.g. this Tweet by Newsweek.

 

[Rob Monster]

It's just that, if you believe the Earth is flat there should be evidence that points to it. Within the current state of scientific knowledge of course. But the Bible is not current and never was scientific anyway. Skepticism is one thing, delusion is another. When people profess to know the truth based on some old book and a dose of personal interpretation you know how it ends.

We'll have to disagree on the historicity of the Bible. It is secular fact from Genesis 11 onwards. As for the antediluvian period, it is oral history from guys that the Bible claims lived to ~900 years old, meaning there would have been plenty of time to shoot the breeze and get their facts transmitted.

As for the flat earth topic, I am not going to attempt to be an apologist for that movement. There are however people who are both skilled Bible scholars and also reasonably intelligent people who correlate science. They are asking reasonable questions based on the supposition that the Bible is correct.

Here is one example:

https://us.tv/gg4ZeGJiyNA/

Public service announcement; That video is hosted on Epik's Us.Tv where it can be downloaded which is a nice feature for anyone in need of a free video downloader that is also using SOCKS5 proxy to mask identity when downloading from WatchMask.com. After all, you might be called crazy for looking into these matters.

 

[Rob Monster]

Can you believe this m


Here is an example of Newsweek using Free Speech.

Show attachment 115440

Is there any validity to it? Is it a productive thing that it would generate 11,000 comments on Twitter. No, not really, but it sure does start conversations.

Free speech requires discernment, including the burden to discern which news sources are either toxic for your soul, e.g. much of Huffington Post, or just nonsense, e.g. this Tweet by Newsweek.

And this is what I call righteous indignation against a false narrative:

 

[Rob Monster]

For those of you who are following the present hysteria in New York about mandatory vaccinations, we have an example of free speech being used to expose another false narrative:

https://thefreethoughtproject.com/mainstream-media-falsely-used-image-measles/

Measles are a nuisance. It is rarely lethal. In fact, even well before the MMR vaccine the mortality rate of measles was approaching nil.

The idea that people should be forced to get vaccinated is medical tyranny. You can thank free speech for exposing the measles epidemic propaganda when mainstream media is amplifying a false narrative.

 

[Slanted]

It's not the core of the issue here.

Never said it was. This is a branching discussion, involving many interconnected topics. Someone said something, and I examined it. Simple as that. Just as people have made claims about Islam in this thread, and others (including me) have responded to those claims. People's attitudes toward Islam are also "not the core of the issue here". But we should be allowed to examine all the tangled threads within this hairball.

Epik was not criticized for being neutral or not being neutral. Epik was criticized for engaging in objectionable activity, that is the posts made by Rob. Because there is no clear distinction between Rob and Epik.

Yes, both Rob and Epik were criticized for the things you mention. The activity was Rob's, not Epik's. But that has already been discussed.

But you are mistaken if you believe that Epik was not ALSO criticized for other reasons – including for remaining neutral and accepting the Gab.com transfer. Even now, we are receiving letters from angry non-customers who demand that websites (other than Gab) be de-platformed due to a viewpoint expressed by someone on that website. Within the past week, I was personally condemned as "supporting violence" and greedy and unethical for not suspending a domain that someone disagreed with.

So it is definitely very true that Epik has been criticized for being content agnostic and neutral. That isn't just coming from random people online. I have also heard notable people within the domain industry, whom I respect, question whether Epik ought to "provide a platform" for content they (and I) deem morally objectionable. So this question of domains as platforms and registrars being neutral is CENTRAL to people's judgment of Epik. I can say that after having spoken to many of them at NamesCon and after dealing with numerous complaints about the Gab.com transfer to Epik and after reading comments in this thread.

Forgive me for staying focused on the simple facts. It doesn't take a long philosophical discussion.

On the contrary, the domain industry and society generally do need a philosophical discussion about de-platforming, censorship, and registrar responsibilities. And it will likely be very long – years and years.

You and I are equally focused on facts. However, you would prefer not to talk about what I'm talking about and instead focus on another topic. That's fine. But it doesn't address what I've said.

The bottom line is that registrars all have TOS, and they will make judgment calls. Or they will simply tell the difficult clients to take their business elsewhere. So they are not completely neutral. Even Epik has done that, so it's not really different than the other registrars. Perhaps has a slightly higher tolerance threshold.

I can think of no difference more acute than (A) suspending a domain versus (B) allowing the domain to be registered. GoDaddy did (A). Epik did (B). Let's not pretend that Epik is "not really different than the other registrars".

 

[Slanted]

The point made by TCK was about hate speech. Your reply is in defence of free speech. We need to recognise the difference.

What do you see as the difference? The way I would use those phrases, "hate speech" is some subset of things that are said – things that someone considers to be hateful. In contrast, "free speech" is not something that is said at all. It is a policy of allowing things to be said.

 

[Slanted]

Yeah, some people are trying to make this more complicated than it needs to be or muddying things up repeating "free speech" or talking about different issues.

No, I talk about different issues because those different issues are important.

I'm not "muddying things up". People have the capacity to think about 2 or 3 topics at once and to distinguish between the issues.

If I talk about registrar responsibilities and free speech and the Gab.com transfer, that is not a sleight-of-hand distraction to prevent others from noticing conspiracy theories, anti-muslim memes, or politics getting mixed up with registrar operations that ought to be neutral. All of these issues are entangled. And they're all germane to the subject of this thread. People should be able to see all of this at once without getting confused.

Yeah, some people are trying to make this more complicated than it needs to be

Some people are trying to make this more simplistic than it actually is.

 

[NameLlama]

In the decade before the live measles vaccine was licensed in 1963, an average of 549,000 measles cases and 495 measles deaths were reported annually in the United States. However, it is likely that, on average, 3 to 4 million people were infected with measles annually; most cases were not reported. Of the reported cases, approximately 48,000 people were hospitalized from measles and 1,000 people developed chronic disability from acute encephalitis caused by measles annually.
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/hcp/index.html
In 2000, measles was declared eliminated from the United States. Elimination is defined as the absence of endemic measles virus transmission in a defined geographic area, such as a region or country, for 12 months or longer in the presence of a well-performing surveillance system. However measles cases and outbreaks still occur every year in the United States because measles is still commonly transmitted in many parts of the world, including countries in Europe, Asia, the Pacific, and Africa. Worldwide, 19 cases of measles per 1 million persons are reported each year; an estimated 89,780 die each year.

• One out of every 1,000 measles cases will develop acute encephalitis, which often results in permanent brain damage.
• One or two out of every 1,000 children who become infected with measles will die from respiratory and neurologic complications.
• Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a rare, but fatal degenerative disease of the central nervous system characterized by behavioral and intellectual deterioration and seizures that generally develop 7 to 10 years after measles infection.
  

29 November 2007 | ATLANTA/GENEVA/NEW YORK/WASHINGTON - Measles deaths in Africa fell by 91% between 2000 and 2006, from an estimated 396 000 to 36 000, reaching the United Nations 2010 goal to cut measles deaths by 90% four years early. The spectacular gains achieved in Africa helped generate a strong decline in global measles deaths, which fell 68% worldwide – from an estimated 757 000 to 242 000 – during this period.

The significant decline in measles deaths in Africa was made possible by the firm commitment of national governments to fully implement the measles reduction strategy, which includes vaccinating all children against measles before their first birthday via routine health services and providing a second opportunity for measles vaccination through mass vaccination campaigns.
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2007/pr62/en/

 

[Rob Monster]

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/hcp/index.html
In 2000, measles was declared eliminated from the United States. Elimination is defined as the absence of endemic measles virus transmission in a defined geographic area, such as a region or country, for 12 months or longer in the presence of a well-performing surveillance system. However measles cases and outbreaks still occur every year in the United States because measles is still commonly transmitted in many parts of the world, including countries in Europe, Asia, the Pacific, and Africa.

Let's not conflate two topics:

1. Recommended vaccination programs -- That number is going through the roof. See here for the progression per the CDC recommended schedulehttp://avoiceforchoice.org/cdc-vaccine-schedule/:

2. Mandatory vaccination programs

Mandatory vaccination programs, recently in the news here in the US , is a form of medical tyranny, i.e. you must take an injection in order to be allowed to be able to participate in daily life or keep your kids.

When it comes to scares, we have seen the movie before, Avian Flu, Swine Flu, etc,. The fear of a hypothetical pandemic as pretext to quarantine or immunize everyone.

One recent high profile example was Zika, which caused an uptick in abortions and reduction in birth rate due to panic about birth defects. It was much ado about nothing, e.g. as explained here by Dr Mercola.

The weaponization of viruses in the form of bioweapons is also something covered extensively by alternative media. For example, there are some who believe that HIV was one of those.

Free speech provides checks and balances against over-vaccinating, over-prescribing, and prematurely resorting to highly invasive medical procedures. It also lets someone investigate prevention strategies.

 

[Rob Monster]

Back to business.

Epik is working on some new marketing collateral to explain the vast technology that we have for powering digital presence. Would love some feedback on this design proof:

https://invis.io/PHRIEBJ2B5F

The sites highlighted are:

Epik.com

BitMitigate.com

Anonymize.com

We did just recently engage a consultant to help upgrade the design and UX for all of our sites. However, for those interested, I would welcome any input on positioning.

For those not aware, Epik is a technology company. We happen to operate a really good registrar, and we happen to protect lawful free speech. However, our day job is to enable fast, secure digital presences.

 

[JB Lions]

No, I talk about different issues because those different issues are important.

I'm not "muddying things up". People have the capacity to think about 2 or 3 topics at once and to distinguish between the issues.

If I talk about registrar responsibilities and free speech and the Gab.com transfer, that is not a sleight-of-hand distraction to prevent others from noticing conspiracy theories, anti-muslim memes, or politics getting mixed up with registrar operations that ought to be neutral. All of these issues are entangled. And they're all germane to the subject of this thread. People should be able to see all of this at once without getting confused.



Some people are trying to make this more simplistic than it actually is.

First off, I wasn't talking about you. Just for your future reference, if I do, I'll quote or mention you.

And it is more simple than complicated. Multiple people have posted about that already.

Instead of making long-winded posts where you're basically just repeating yourself and bumping this thread, your time is probably better spent actually reading what you're attempting to respond to.

You posted you don't read the posts here, the Twitter account, the Gab account. Let's use an example.

I posted earlier about post count, somebody mentioned that post, you replied saying something along the lines of you not being sure that was accurate. You aren't sure because I guess you're lazy?

How much time would it take for you to read your business Twitter account?

As far as post count, watch how simple this is, click this link - https://gab.com/epik

See that number at the top above posts? It says 1779.

 

[Rob Monster]

As far as post count, watch how simple this is, click this link - https://gab.com/epik

See that number at the top above posts? It says 1779.

Your statement is a little disingenuous. Here's why. The vast majority of those posts were in the 2 months following Epik taking on Gab.com as a client. There is also @anonymize and @bitmitigate as handles at Gab.com. I don't manage either of those handles personally as they are managed by their respective product managers. At some point, I expect I will transition @EPIK to a product manager for Epik, just as I am largely inactive on Facebook and Twitter these days as we have a social media manager.

The purpose of being active at Gab in November-December 2018 was to propagate a culture of responsible free speech at a time when Gab management was overwhelmed. I do believe there has been a material shift at Gab in terms of the audience.The folks that remain at Gab may not be your personal cup of tea, but the community is now largely self-policing to root out misanthropes. The unrepentant champions of indiscriminate hate have lost their platform there. I would call that progress.

As for the content of those posts, there is no duplicity. The views projected in this specific thread about "Epik and Rob Monster" are in line with how I think and what I believe. By now it should be obvious that I am a "cards on the table" guy with relatively little patience for political correctness. I do periodically post at Gab in my own persona both as an advocate for lawful free speech but also to invite folks who are practicing lawful free speech to use our tools. That invitation is non-partisan.

All that said, I won't apologize for believing that lawful free speech is a good thing. I also do believe that Facebook, Medium, and Twitter have all become highly censorious and biased. I have experienced this first-hand which is why I find very little joy in using their products. I prefer unvarnished authenticity. Although there has been some revelation of my views, it should also be obvious that Epik is a company with compelling products, capable people, clear principles, and that we welcome all who are lawfully engaged.

 

[JB Lions]

Your statement is a little disingenuous. Here's why. The vast majority of those posts were in the 2 months following Epik taking on Gab.com as a client. There is also @anonymize and @bitmitigate as handles at Gab.com. I don't manage either of those handles personally as they are managed by their respective product managers. At some point, I expect I will transition @EPIK to a product manager for Epik, just as I am largely inactive on Facebook and Twitter these days as we have a social media manager.

The purpose of being active at Gab in November-December 2018 was to propagate a culture of responsible free speech at a time when Gab management was overwhelmed. I do believe there has been a material shift at Gab in terms of the audience.The folks that remain at Gab may not be your personal cup of tea, but the community is now largely self-policing to root out misanthropes. The unrepentant champions of indiscriminate hate have lost their platform there. I would call that progress.

As for the content of those posts, there is no duplicity. The views projected in this specific thread about "Epik and Rob Monster" are in line with how I think and what I believe. By now it should be obvious that I am a "cards on the table" guy with relatively little patience for political correctness. I do periodically post at Gab in my own persona both as an advocate for lawful free speech but also to invite folks who are practicing lawful free speech to use our tools. That invitation is non-partisan.

All that said, I won't apologize for believing that lawful free speech is a good thing. I also do believe that Facebook, Medium, and Twitter have all become highly censorious and biased. I have experienced this first-hand which is why I find very little joy in using their products. I prefer unvarnished authenticity. Although there has been some revelation of my views, it should also be obvious that Epik is a company with compelling products, capable people, clear principles, and that we welcome all who are lawfully engaged.

It's not disingenuous at all, it's a simple metric, activity. You follow up saying you were very active. Yes, that's the point. Then you posted "@anonymize and @bitmitigate" I have no idea why, those have their own post counts, that's not included in yours.

Then you go on talking about free speech again, a topic nobody is disagreeing with you on. Not sure how many times that needs to be gone over.

I will point out tho one of the things you mention a lot is GoDaddy and how they enforced their TOS. Again, you do as well, with that Incel site I'm guessing and I'm sure other cases. Epik enforces their TOS, Gab enforces their TOS. Those same people you enforce your TOS against can complain about their free speech. I will say as far as GoDaddy, the only legit complaint was maybe the 1 day notice but I don't know the rules as far as that.

 

[Rob Monster]

It's not disingenuous at all, it's a simple metric, activity. You follow up saying you were very active. Yes, that's the point. Then you posted "@anonymize and @bitmitigate" I have no idea why, those have their own post counts, that's not included in yours.

Then you go on talking about free speech again, a topic nobody is disagreeing with you on. Not sure how many times that needs to be gone over.

So, now that I gave you context on why I was active and lately not so active at Gab.com, what's your complaint specifically that you felt compelled to post and then defend your post?

 

[JB Lions]

So, now that I gave you context on why I was active and lately not so active at Gab.com, what's your complaint specifically that you felt compelled to post and then defend your post?

The first time I mentioned it was simply pointing out you were more active there, than here. That's it. You were obviously targetting that audience.

While you're here can you address this part:

"I will point out tho one of the things you mention a lot is GoDaddy and how they enforced their TOS. Again, you do as well, with that Incel site I'm guessing and I'm sure other cases. Epik enforces their TOS, Gab enforces their TOS. Those same people you enforce your TOS against can complain about their free speech. I will say as far as GoDaddy, the only legit complaint was maybe the 1 day notice but I don't know the rules as far as that."

Godaddy, Epik, Gab all enforce their TOS, correct?

 

[Rob Monster]

The first time I mentioned it was simply pointing out you were more active there, than here. That's it.

At the rate we are going, that has obviously changed.

I am also active in the ICANN Registrar Stakeholder Group. Prior to October 2018, I really wasn't. I attended ICANN 64 in Barcelona and ICANN 65 in Kobe.

I was recently asked by a few people to also join the ICA.

Frankly, until recently I did not really pay much attention to ICANN or domain industry governance. It is really only in the last 6 months that it became obvious that there was a leadership void that needed to be filled.

 

[Slanted]

Instead of making long-winded posts where you're basically just repeating yourself

Whine, whine, whine ...

your time is probably better spent actually reading what you're attempting to respond to.

Clearly I read everything I respond to. As a matter of fact, I quote others and examine particular phrases within what they have written.

You posted you don't read the posts here, the Twitter account, the Gab account.

True. Until this scandal, I visited NamePros only about once every 3-4 months. Also, as mentioned, I don't use Twitter or Facebook personally beyond having some placeholder accounts. And I have never set foot in Gab.

I posted earlier about post count, somebody mentioned that post, you replied saying something along the lines of you not being sure that was accurate. You aren't sure because I guess you're lazy?

Yes, everybody who knows me knows how lazy I am. Or perhaps I was responding to a NamePros post while in a hurry. Believe it or not, I do have a day job. At least, I did have one prior to resigning at Epik; and I still do have responsibilities.

You're talking about the number of posts Rob Monster has made on some other website, as I recall. Is it lazy of me not to monitor my boss's personal behavior? Perhaps. But, frankly, it irritates me that other people think it's my obligation to monitor what he is doing as an individual. Doing things like reading his personal posts on Gab or Twitter has never interested me personally, and it has never been part of my job description. Much less confirming what someone else says are the number of posts Rob has made.

Listen, dude, I never said you were wrong about the number of posts Rob had made. I simply said I didn't know. And I didn't check whether you were right because I didn't care. Is that laziness? You can choose to see it that way. But I refuse to work at any job that would require me to monitor my boss's personal behavior day in, day out.

How much time would it take for you to read your business Twitter account?

Not sure. Epik's Twitter account was never 1 of my responsibilities. I was generally busy with TLD management; writing tasks for the developers to execute; responding to customers' questions; dealing with UDRPs, subpoenas, and ICANN compliance issues; troubleshooting and testing; and so forth.

After resigning at Epik, I have even less time or interest to review Epik's Twitter account, since I have a lot of open tasks, projects, and responsibilities to attend to.

Really, dude, you need to stop insulting others and do something constructive.

 

[JB Lions]

Whine, whine, whine ...



Clearly I read everything I respond to. As a matter of fact, I quote others and examine particular phrases within what they have written.



True. Until this scandal, I visited NamePros only about once every 3-4 months. Also, as mentioned, I don't use Twitter or Facebook personally beyond having some placeholder accounts. And I have never set foot in Gab.



Yes, everybody who knows me knows how lazy I am. Or perhaps I was responding to a NamePros post while in a hurry. Believe it or not, I do have a day job. At least, I did have one prior to resigning at Epik; and I still do have responsibilities.

You're talking about the number of posts Rob Monster has made on some other website, as I recall. Is it lazy of me not to monitor my boss's personal behavior? Perhaps. But, frankly, it irritates me that other people think it's my obligation to monitor what he is doing as an individual. Doing things like reading his personal posts on Gab or Twitter has never interested me personally, and it has never been part of my job description. Much less confirming what someone else says are the number of posts Rob has made.

Listen, dude, I never said you were wrong about the number of posts Rob had made. I simply said I didn't know. And I didn't check whether you were right because I didn't care. Is that laziness? You can choose to see it that way. But I refuse to work at any job that would require me to monitor my boss's personal behavior day in, day out.



Not sure. Epik's Twitter account was never 1 of my responsibilities. I was generally busy with TLD management; writing tasks for the developers to execute; responding to customers' questions; dealing with UDRPs, subpoenas, and ICANN compliance issues; troubleshooting and testing; and so forth.

After resigning at Epik, I have even less time or interest to review Epik's Twitter account, since I have a lot of open tasks, projects, and responsibilities to attend to.

Really, dude, you need to stop insulting others and do something constructive.

You probably should take your own advice as far as insulting. Don't ask of others what you're not willing to do yourself.

And I expected the, I'm really busy reply. My point was one more of time management. If you have time to post about something, you should take a few minutes to actually read what you're posting about.

"And I have never set foot in Gab."

That's the point. If you did, you might have a better understanding of what people are talking about.

 

[Slanted]

"And I have never set foot in Gab." That's the point.

So only Gab power users are qualified to have a viewpoint about Epik and Rob Monster? Someone like me who has worked at Epik and with Rob daily should just keep his mouth shut. Sure, sounds reasonable.

You probably should take your own advice as far as insulting. Don't ask of others what you're not willing to do yourself.

Did you feel insulted by "dude"? Or did I just make you look foolish by dismantling what you said? Looking foolish might feel humiliating, but that doesn't mean I insulted you.

And I expected the, I'm really busy reply.

A prophet in our midst! What a scumbag I am for not bothering to check the facts and figures YOU cite.

Again, I recommend you find something constructive to do. Currently you are just wasting time finding fault with what you think I ought to be doing with my own time.

 

[JB Lions]

So only Gab power users are qualified to have a viewpoint about Epik and Rob Monster? Someone like me who has worked at Epik and with Rob daily should just keep his mouth shut. Sure, sounds reasonable.



Did you feel insulted by "dude"? Or did I just make you look foolish by dismantling what you said? Looking foolish might feel humiliating, but that doesn't mean I insulted you.



A prophet in our midst! What a scumbag I am for not bothering to check the facts and figures YOU cite.

Again, I recommend you find something constructive to do. Currently you are just wasting time finding fault with what you think I ought to be doing with my own time.

Gab power user? What in the world are you talking about. Anybody can read, you don't have to join. It's some obvious stuff I'm posting. Yes, it helps to actually read, especially if that's the topic. The topic isn't your employment with Epik. There have been many times where you posted that you weren't aware of this and that. That's because..............you didn't read.

I'm not the one looking foolish, to be unaware of your own reply.