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What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster?

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I'm catching the tail end of this, seems to be some kind of controversy...

https://domaingang.com/domain-news/rob-monster-off-twitter-after-christchurch-massacre-controversy/

Must be something odd to evoke this type of a response from one of our members.

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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
GoDaddyGoDaddy
Some people saying he is anti muslim I was stating fact that he employs people who are Muslim.

Yes. Slave owners in the United States used to like Africans so much they bought them, but that doesn't really prove much either.

It's against the law to refuse to employ persons on the basis of religion.
 
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What is "large silent group conveying attaboys"?
20190321_102623.png
 
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What is "large silent group conveying attaboys"?

It's an internet tradition going back to Usenet.....

https://fanlore.org/wiki/The_Lurkers_Support_Me_in_Email

The Lurkers Support Me in Email is an argument sometimes made in online debates or flamewars, in which one person claims that lurkers in the community support his or her position and have expressed that support in private email.

---------

Yes, the lurkers support me in email
With gusto and vigour and vim
And so does the Pope and the President, and
My invisible weasel called Jim;
I'm amazed at this Internet thingie,
I've been typing so hard I've got cramp,
But I've only just worked out what "posts" are,
And tomorrow I'll take off the stamp..

Yes, the lurkers support me in email,
And they're sure to back up what I post,
But they're far too scared to admit it,
Since the flamers here char them to toast...
The lurkers support me in email,
And I *do* know about netiquette,
I can prove that my sig looks fine fifty lines big,
You should see all the fan mail I get...
-----

See also, "Great Silent Majority"...

 
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Seems Rob embraces free speech until free speech kicks him in the rear.

Maybe Rob should have said that people are entitled to their opinions and that he will EMBRRACE those that DO NOT agree with HIM instead of characterizring it as taking a beating. He should realize that his actions are interpreted by some as a slap in the face.
 
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Usenet. You are showing your online age.
Who didn't love a good old flamewar, when done properly.

Unfortunately, this war is a bit one sided, don't you think?
The protagonist wont come out and play.

-MOTO
 
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Seems Rob embraces free speech until free speech kicks him in the rear.

Maybe Rob should have said that people are entitled to their opinions and that he will EMBRRACE those that DO NOT agree with HIM instead of characterizring it as taking a beating. He should realize that his actions are interpreted by some as a slap in the face.

Can you imagine him coming here and trying to clarify his tweet?
The attacks would be monstrous, he is far better staying away and letting things settle, the internet archives are very unforgiving.

Personally I think opinions are opinions and actions are actions.

Sometimes one says things but does quite the opposite and I personally think nobody should be judged by a single spoken word or tweet. In today's social media world a lot of people have put their foot in their mouth and paid a high price.

Social media should have a setting in your account where it sets all posts to a 24 hour delay. This way people who make chronic mistakes can think about their posts and review them the next day before posting. I bet you a lot of them would get deleted.

Now I don't know what his intentions were and I am not defending him as much as I am saying one should be able to apologize for a mistweet and have it be taken at face value. The more you try to explain it the bigger the controversy gets and the whole Rosanne Barr incident shows you that.

Rob should apologize if he feels he did wrong but leave it at that. Opening the can further will make this thing never go away.
 
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Lol Gab.com/epik clearyl says ROB MONSTER
 
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Monster, who denies having sympathies for white nationalism and describes himself as merely being a religious Christian, appeared on one of Striker’s many various livestream projects, “The People’s Square” on Friday, Jan. 4. Monster made comments on that show that did little to distance his company from the white nationalist movement, or its values.
“You look at a guy like David Duke for example, and he has some far-right views and so forth,” Monster says, in the context of people becoming more open-minded to controversial views through the help of the internet. “But he’s actually a pretty clever guy, he’s articulate. He knows history. And I don’t know the body of his work, but I have a feeling that many people grew up with this mindset that you shouldn’t listen to anything David Duke says.”
 
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Can you imagine him coming here and trying to clarify his tweet?
The attacks would be monstrous, he is far better staying away and letting things settle, the internet archives are very unforgiving.

Personally I think opinions are opinions and actions are actions.

Sometimes one says things but does quite the opposite and I personally think nobody should be judged by a single spoken word or tweet. In today's social media world a lot of people have put their foot in their mouth and paid a high price.

Social media should have a setting in your account where it sets all posts to a 24 hour delay. This way people who make chronic mistakes can think about their posts and review them the next day before posting. I bet you a lot of them would get deleted.

Now I don't know what his intentions were and I am not defending him as much as I am saying one should be able to apologize for a mistweet and have it be taken at face value. The more you try to explain it the bigger the controversy gets and the whole Rosanne Barr incident shows you that.

Rob should apologize if he feels he did wrong but leave it at that. Opening the can further will make this thing never go away.
I agree except that people do judge.
 
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The following are my personal thoughts on this...obviously no one has to agree with any of them.

Let me first say this clearly. The New Zealand shooting has an atrocity and my heart goes out to all of those who have had their lives impacted. As a society we should do nothing to give oxygen to hateful views such as those of the alleged shooter, and I support the Prime Ministers decision to never utter his name and efforts to make sure his manifesto and video are not distributed. I applaud her governments swift action to make the instruments of such atrocity less accessible. I am touched by those of all religions who have reached out to comfort the survivors and the families of the deceased. It was not a hoax and to say so is simply wrong, no matter who you are.

But this thread is, fundamentally, about @Rob Monster and Epik. I got to know Rob first through NPs and found him a knowledgeable and helpful and respectful presence. I was particularly impressed by the many times he reached out to help individuals who were stressed over some situation, even though there seemed little or no possible payback to Epik. I also respected that he treated those with few friends here just as though they were a VIP with a high value portfolio.

On the opening day of NamesCon I sat down with Rob for the better part of an hour in an interview that I had requested for a future article on Epik and it's CEO. For a variety of reasons, mainly my own procrastination, that article has not yet been written, and doing so now is clearly more challenging. Rob and I talked about his personal beliefs and story, Epik's development, lifetime registrations, innovative plans on the horizon and more. We did talk a bit about due process, deplatforming, and freedom of speech, but that was not the main focus I wanted.

The smart, generous and kind person I had expected from online contact was confirmed in my mind. Rob genuinely cares about people. In fact one of my strongest impressions from that hour was that Rob started it by wanting to talk about me. Rob is a caring person. I saw nothing that would suggest to me any racist opinions or hatred, in fact just the opposite. Those who have tried to paint him that way are wrong in my opinion. As @Ategy.com has related in his detailed and well expressed posts in this thread, Rob Monster even when his views are quite different, respects differences. My political views are undoubtedly very distant from his, but he seemed to genuinely respect that.

I have not seen the post that created this controversy (other than as screen captures shared). If it is true that it offered a link to the 'manifesto' and the video, and that it implied that some aspects of the video might suggest the event did not really happen, then I condemn the post.

There are valid reasons that some need access to documents such as this. Obviously law enforcement, the court system, victim advocacy professionals, researchers in racism and anti-social violence, etc. need access to the document. For me, freedom of speech does not mean anyone who wants it should have access to those documents. While I support Epik's stand on the need for due process in deciding issues such as deplatforming, that is not to say, in my opinion, that anything anyone posts has the right to be seen by anyone.

As it turns out when all of this happened I was reading a book by Dr. Julia Shaw. Early in it she asks the reader to do the following exercise. Think about the worst thing you personally did in your life? Maybe just once you bullied someone, but it was a really weak person in a tough time in life. Maybe just once you stole something and never got caught. Maybe you cheated on your taxes. Maybe you treated a mentally fragile person harshly. Maybe it is something worse. Would you want forever for people to in a black and white way know you always and forever as the bully, cheat, thief, etc., rather than the complex person, with good traits and faults, that you are?

Now I accept that people who I respect, like Shane, feel that a line has been crossed here and have called for Epik to pay the ultimate price. While I do not agree, I understand and respect his view and those who have supported him.

I thank @Slanted for his long posts here, and at Shane's blog, for giving us a glimpse into the situations that probably helped to contribute to the unfortunate response. I disagree with those who say it is irrelevant and simply an excuse. In difficult and stressful times knowing context helps.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe how smart people can come to believe in complex and unrealistic conspiracy scenarios. To some degree I even respect their right to believe crazy things. But only up to the point where their beliefs begin to harm or threaten other people. Parents who went through heartbreak when their children were killed in their school and were then continuously hounded on social media by those who proclaim it did not happen and it was just a staged government to try to take away guns were hurt cruelly. Conspiracy theories are not without consequences. Promoting conspiracy theories hurts real people. Promoting manifestos of shooters makes the world more dangerous.

As wrong as the (apparent) post was, I think it is not fair to Epik and its employees or to Rob to let one tweet (if it was a tweet) forever characterize the man and the company. What I do feel is needed however is the following:
  • A clear statement from Epik that they apologize for the post and recognize how wrong it was.
  • A clear statement from Epik that a post like that will never happen again and procedures to make sure that it will not.
  • A clear statement that while they continue to stand up for due process and freedom of speech, that there are limits on free speech when making items available will extend pain to victims or potentially lead to increased risk. Anyone who has been charged in a violent crime should have everything they wrote archived (in case later found not guilty) in a form that cannot be generally accessed until court proceedings are complete. That would include the writings of all shooters. In other words access to this manifesto and video should immediately cease, if it is still available (I do not know).
  • Some action to mitigate the hurt that was caused by the unfortunate post.
  • Just as the head of Starbucks instituted company wide measures to correct for racial profiling, Epik should commit to measures where specialists help all employees see that free speech can not go so far as to inflict additional pain on sufferers and heighten risk. This is something many organizations, not just Epik, need to take seriously. Epik should refocus to lead responsible freedom of speech, not wide open freedom of speech.
I stopped wearing my Epik cap yesterday. I challenge the company to institute changes so that I can once again proudly wear the cap. Rob and Epik are smart and forward looking and focussed on providing great service and products. Rob is a kind and generous person. I want to see them recover from this. But we must all learn from this.

Bob
 
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Companies the size of Epik consist of many unalike people devoting the majority of every week toward a collective goal, pigeonholed under the company's name. It is detestable to cast judgment or hatred on the whole company based on what a bite-sized percentage of employees at the company do, even if that's the CEO. "Epik" does not belong in the title or this exchange.

Do you boycott companies in the domain industry that have political beliefs in conflict with yours? No.

@Addison Epik has officially gone to Rob's defense using the company's Twitter account:

https://twitter.com/EpikDotCom/status/1081389181614673920

Don't know if this means anything to anyone but just stating the facts. Not casting judgement or hatred on anyone.
 
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The following are my personal thoughts on this...obviously no one has to agree with any of them.

Let me first say this clearly. The New Zealand shooting has an atrocity and my heart goes out to all of those who have had their lives impacted. As a society we should do nothing to give oxygen to hateful views such as those of the alleged shooter, and I support the Prime Ministers decision to never utter his name and efforts to make sure his manifesto and video are not distributed. I applaud her governments swift action to make the instruments of such atrocity less accessible. I am touched by those of all religions who have reached out to comfort the survivors and the families of the deceased. It was not a hoax and to say so is simply wrong, no matter who you are.

But this thread is, fundamentally, about @Rob Monster and Epik. I got to know Rob first through NPs and found him a knowledgeable and helpful and respectful presence. I was particularly impressed by the many times he reached out to help individuals who were stressed over some situation, even though there seemed little or no possible payback to Epik. I also respected that he treated those with few friends here just as though they were a VIP with a high value portfolio.

On the opening day of NamesCon I sat down with Rob for the better part of an hour in an interview that I had requested for a future article on Epik and it's CEO. For a variety of reasons, mainly my own procrastination, that article has not yet been written, and doing so now is clearly more challenging. Rob and I talked about his personal beliefs and story, Epik's development, lifetime registrations, innovative plans on the horizon and more. We did talk a bit about due process, deplatforming, and freedom of speech, but that was not the main focus I wanted.

The smart, generous and kind person I had expected from online contact was confirmed in my mind. Rob genuinely cares about people. In fact one of my strongest impressions from that hour was that Rob started it by wanting to talk about me. Rob is a caring person. I saw nothing that would suggest to me any racist opinions or hatred, in fact just the opposite. Those who have tried to paint him that way are wrong in my opinion. As @Ategy.com has related in his detailed and well expressed posts in this thread, Rob Monster even when his views are quite different, respects differences. My political views are undoubtedly very distant from his, but he seemed to genuinely respect that.

I have not seen the post that created this controversy (other than as screen captures shared). If it is true that it offered a link to the 'manifesto' and the video, and that it implied that some aspects of the video might suggest the event did not really happen, then I condemn the post.

There are valid reasons that some need access to documents such as this. Obviously law enforcement, the court system, victim advocacy professionals, researchers in racism and anti-social violence, etc. need access to the document. For me, freedom of speech does not mean anyone who wants it should have access to those documents. While I support Epik's stand on the need for due process in deciding issues such as deplatforming, that is not to say, in my opinion, that anything anyone posts has the right to be seen by anyone.

As it turns out when all of this happened I was reading a book by Dr. Julia Shaw. Early in it she asks the reader to do the following exercise. Think about the worst thing you personally did in your life? Maybe just once you bullied someone, but it was a really weak person in a tough time in life. Maybe just once you stole something and never got caught. Maybe you cheated on your taxes. Maybe you treated a mentally fragile person harshly. Maybe it is something worse. Would you want forever for people to in a black and white way know you always and forever as the bully, cheat, thief, etc., rather than the complex person, with good traits and faults, that you are?

Now I accept that people who I respect, like Shane, feel that a line has been crossed here and have called for Epik to pay the ultimate price. While I do not agree, I understand and respect his view and those who have supported him.

I thank @Slanted for his long posts here, and at Shane's blog, for giving us a glimpse into the situations that probably helped to contribute to the unfortunate response. I disagree with those who say it is irrelevant and simply an excuse. In difficult and stressful times knowing context helps.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe how smart people can come to believe in complex and unrealistic conspiracy scenarios. To some degree I even respect their right to believe crazy things. But only up to the point where their beliefs begin to harm or threaten other people. Parents who went through heartbreak when their children were killed in their school and were then continuously hounded on social media by those who proclaim it did not happen and it was just a staged government to try to take away guns were hurt cruelly. Conspiracy theories are not without consequences. Promoting conspiracy theories hurts real people. Promoting manifestos of shooters makes the world more dangerous.

As wrong as the (apparent) post was, I think it is not fair to Epik and its employees or to Rob to let one tweet (if it was a tweet) forever characterize the man and the company. What I do feel is needed however is the following:
  • A clear statement from Epik that they apologize for the post and recognize how wrong it was.
  • A clear statement from Epik that a post like that will never happen again and procedures to make sure that it will not.
  • A clear statement that while they continue to stand up for due process and freedom of speech, that there are limits on free speech when making items available will extend pain to victims or potentially lead to increased risk. Anyone who has been charged in a violent crime should have everything they wrote archived (in case later found not guilty) in a form that cannot be generally accessed until court proceedings are complete. That would include the writings of all shooters. In other words access to this manifesto and video should immediately cease, if it is still available (I do not know).
  • Some action to mitigate the hurt that was caused by the unfortunate post.
  • Just as the head of Starbucks instituted company wide measures to correct for racial profiling, Epik should commit to measures where specialists help all employees see that free speech can not go so far as to inflict additional pain on sufferers and heighten risk. This is something many organizations, not just Epik, need to take seriously. Epik should refocus to lead responsible freedom of speech, not wide open freedom of speech.
I stopped wearing my Epik cap yesterday. I challenge the company to institute changes so that I can once again proudly wear the cap. Rob and Epik are smart and forward looking and focussed on providing great service and products. Rob is a kind and generous person. I want to see them recover from this. But we must all learn from this.

Bob
agreed
 
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I think in Europe you can be jailed for saying the holocaust didn't happen. I'm not sure but i think having neonazi symbols, like the swastika, is also illegal

So nz is just following this sort of thjng.

in germany it's definitely illegal

but not sure if jail is the unavoidable consequence
 
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.....I stopped wearing my Epik cap yesterday.....
Bob

Even though you stopped wearing your Epik hat your very long in-depth post seems to spend far more time in-effect praising him vs condemning that he does not do best and ACT.BEST which attitude by you I think is both disturbing and sad,
 
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I think in Europe you can be jailed for saying the holocaust didn't happen. .

Broadly yes, depending on country and circumstances - even when there is no explicit law as such you can be guilty of hate crimes or be extradited to another country

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ial-songs-to-youtube-convicted-alison-chabloz

Woman who posted Holocaust denial songs to YouTube convicted


Judge rules songs were not satirical as Alison Chabloz claimed, but intended to insult Jewish people

This man was extradited from UK to Austria to stand trial - found guilty:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/20/austria.thefarright

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_Holocaust_denial_is_legal
 
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Yes. Slave owners in the United States used to like Africans so much they bought them, but that doesn't really prove much either.

It's against the law to refuse to employ persons on the basis of religion.
Unless your a red indian a native american Then we steal your land make our own laws, have no chance defending your civil rights in our courts.
 
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Can you imagine him coming here and trying to clarify his tweet?
The attacks would be monstrous, he is far better staying away and letting things settle, the internet archives are very unforgiving.

Personally I think opinions are opinions and actions are actions.

Sometimes one says things but does quite the opposite and I personally think nobody should be judged by a single spoken word or tweet.

He's certainly better than coming here to engage - he'd rather post on Gab to complain about how victimized he feels by attaboys on Namepros.

But you're right, opinions are opinions and actions are actions. Defending a platform's right to exist to fight censorship is one thing - but to become an active user and share in the bigotry, and doing so using the handle of the company you represent?

I have not seen the post that created this controversy (other than as screen captures shared). If it is true that it offered a link to the 'manifesto' and the video, and that it implied that some aspects of the video might suggest the event did not really happen, then I condemn the post.

Here's an action:
epikg.png

You can look for the original post on gab.com/epik if you doubt the accuracy of screen captures.

This isn't merely making sure documents that may be valuable to authorities and for research purposes are available to those interested - in the name of preventing censorship - this is amplifying the message of a mass murderer on a platform that shelters users who applaud crimes against certain people. On a platform where people like Cantwell call out for murder loud and clear. (#freespeechamiright)

And doing so from an account on said platform with the handle of the company some wish to not see named in a situation that only concerns its CEO.

I'm all for being measured in judging others' actions and opinions, but this isn't one incident, it's not a faux pas that is brushed away with a quick apology. You can be a nice guy, a family man, committed to your religion and community, and still be hateful toward other groups, bigoted, and so forth.

Rob is not the victim here.
 
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