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What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster?

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I'm catching the tail end of this, seems to be some kind of controversy...

https://domaingang.com/domain-news/rob-monster-off-twitter-after-christchurch-massacre-controversy/

Must be something odd to evoke this type of a response from one of our members.

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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
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And here is comment #2:

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@brad Mugford,

"Rob Monster posted a link to the shooter’s video and also implied it was a hoax."

Correct.

(...)

Is there a defense for it? Listen, I'm not going to waste my breath defending conspiracy theories I don't believe. But it's fair to point out that Rob also believes the 9/11 massacre was a hoax or inside job. Ditto the moon landing. About school shootings I haven't asked. Maybe those too.

Because white supremacist violence is on the rise, that has led Rob to call racist massacres hoaxes. But he is at least consistent. Nobody would call him a white supremacist for saying that 9/11 wasn't really perpetrated by islamic terrorists or for saying that a school shooting involved actors or for saying that Neil Armstrong didn't really set foot on lunar soil.

There is no defense that I would offer for Rob's opinion. Much less will I defend a CEO's insensitive blunder in sharing that opinion while mentioning his own company's brand.

But since Rob is being called a neo-Nazi, and I know that to be untrue, I will defend him.

Where to begin.

What boggles the mind is that someone would be so fierce to defend the right to share a proof of mass murder and at the same time DARE to imply it is a hoax. If and when Rob decides to come back and defend himself directly as opposed to using spokespeople, this is where he needs to begin.

This isn't an isolated incident, he knows what he's doing enough to know that calling mass murder a hoax will not be taken lightly. It's not an accident, it's a tactic. To what end?

I've been following this closely, as I made a decision to transfer hundreds of names to Epik in the fall and I have questioned my decision ever since Gab. I'm on the fence of turning back around. What a CEO says and does matters whether his actions are on behalf of a company or not - because ultimately I don't want my money to line up the pockets of someone who will funnel it to harm others.

What I take issue with is when someone parades free speech as a veil to protect individuals and groups that have dangerous motives.

Defending hate groups and trying to normalize hate speech by calling it "free" may not in an of itself make you a neo-Nazi.

But when the only free speech you fervently defend is slanted in a particular direction that contributes to real harm to real human beings, saying "hey I have a Muslim friend/employee so I am obviously not racist" is phony at best.

This is not ignorance, it's mal-intent, and you need to do some serious soul-searching if you don't see the harm.
 
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is it appropriate to leaflet the man's neighborhood and harass his wife, calling him a Nazi?

It's free speech.

What could be more American than leafleting a neighborhood?

Rob has a problem with people leafleting Rob's neighborhood, or saying what they like about his wife, his kids or him, but he's fine mocking the violent deaths of other people's loved ones by calling it a hoax.

What a hypocritical snowflake.

Did someone's speech hurt his fee-fee's?
 
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When it is someone else's family being attacked, Rob is all for it:

Screen Shot 2019-03-19 at 3.16.24 PM.png

Screen Shot 2019-03-19 at 3.19.48 PM.png

Screen Shot 2019-03-19 at 3.20.05 PM.png


Rob has a problem with people exercising their free speech about HIS family?

That's rich.
 
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Epic has staff that are Muslim.
Epic has staff that are Jewish.
Epic has staff that are Christian.
Epic has staff that are coloured,
Epic has staff that are brown,
Epic has staff that white or Pale.

It's illegal in the United States to discriminate in employment on the basis of those things. Rob doesn't have the freedom to NOT hire persons on the basis of religion, ethnicity, handicap, etc..

I'm sure that Epik doesn't regularly commit murders either, but the fact that the company obeys the law has nothing to do with whether people are entitled to make their own decisions about what businesses to patronize.

Whom Rob employs, or chooses to trot out as props and human shields like Joseph here, is beside the point. He doesn't deserve some sort of humanitarian award for simply doing what the law requires. I'll bet he stops at stop signs and red lights too. Wow, what a guy!
 
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Where to begin.

What boggles the mind is that someone would be so fierce to defend the right to share a proof of mass murder and at the same time DARE to imply it is a hoax. If and when Rob decides to come back and defend himself directly as opposed to using spokespeople, this is where he needs to begin.

This isn't an isolated incident, he knows what he's doing enough to know that calling mass murder a hoax will not be taken lightly. It's not an accident, it's a tactic. To what end?

I've been following this closely, as I made a decision to transfer hundreds of names to Epik in the fall and I have questioned my decision ever since Gab. I'm on the fence of turning back around. What a CEO says and does matters whether his actions are on behalf of a company or not - because ultimately I don't want my money to line up the pockets of someone who will funnel it to harm others.

What I take issue with is when someone parades free speech as a veil to protect individuals and groups that have dangerous motives.

Defending hate groups and trying to normalize hate speech by calling it "free" may not in an of itself make you a neo-Nazi.

But when the only free speech you fervently defend is slanted in a particular direction that contributes to real harm to real human beings, saying "hey I have a Muslim friend/employee so I am obviously not racist" is phony at best.

This is not ignorance, it's mal-intent, and you need to do some serious soul-searching if you don't see the harm.

Those defending him should take a look at his Gab.com profile. Unless he has already deleted his posts like his Twitter account. Having Muslim friends or Muslim employees doesn't change anything
 
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Remember when Oskar Schindler doubted whther Jews were being killed and then used I employ Jews as an excuse
Wait :xf.confused::xf.confused::xf.confused::xf.confused:
 
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@Rob Monster and the Epik crew can make whatever decisions they want about their business. Just understand this.

Neither Rob or Slanted should in any way try to explain or sway other business people (domain investors) to accept Epik's position on the Gab deal or the video upload.

Just don't say anything. Let the chips fall where they may.

Let people decide to continue to do business with Epik or cease business with Epik. I believe Epik has made terrible mistakes here as a company. Epik hadn't even developed it's image large scale and now is viewed as a hate haven.

I'm a business man. I earned my place in the INC500 by running my company clean for 16 years. Yes, I donated space to democrats and would have for republicans, but they didn't ask.

I can honestly say that I wouldn't take paroled criminals into my home even though they served their time. Sorry.

It's not okay to commit crimes as long as before you commit them, you accept that you might get 5 or 10 years in prison and after serving your time, it should never come up again.

IMO, Epik (Rob) needs to understand that where Epik donates money, what the company supports, what the company allows, will be scrutinized by clients, investors, and all those that consider aligning with Epik.

Perhaps in the future, if given the opportunity, Epik will make some large donations or make some efforts publicly that demonstrate an understanding that we cannot support everything so choices have to be made. Put energy and resources behind issues that are clear and have universal support.

Imagine if Epik were getting press for contributing to ending poverty, ending hunger, ending child abuse, educating children. That's the kind of press Epik needs.
 
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Lets not forget that as one person is being scrutinized here for perhaps showing racist or hateful behavior as an individual the people who are doing the scrutinizing might themselves be engaging in similar behaviors collectively as members of certain political parties, religions, or interest groups. If we fault one person for showing hate, then we should also fault a whole religion, political party, culture, society, or group that engages in promoting hate too especially when it leads to much abuse, torture, and killings. IMO
 
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It's illegal in the United States to discriminate in employment on the basis of those things. Rob doesn't have the freedom to NOT hire persons on the basis of religion, ethnicity, handicap, etc..

I'm sure that Epik doesn't regularly commit murders either, but the fact that the company obeys the law has nothing to do with whether people are entitled to make their own decisions about what businesses to patronize.

Whom Rob employs, or chooses to trot out as props and human shields like Joseph here, is beside the point. He doesn't deserve some sort of humanitarian award for simply doing what the law requires. I'll bet he stops at stop signs and red lights too. Wow, what a guy!

Some people saying he is anti muslim I was stating fact that he employs people who are Muslim. Some these people are not based in USA. Have no idea is he stops at stop signs and red lights, I prefer going when its at amber. Going when its at green, stopping as turns to red.just like the forum of sweetie wifes.
 
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Some people saying he is anti muslim I was stating fact that he employs people who are Muslim.

Yes. Slave owners in the United States used to like Africans so much they bought them, but that doesn't really prove much either.

It's against the law to refuse to employ persons on the basis of religion.
 
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What is "large silent group conveying attaboys"?
20190321_102623.png
 
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What is "large silent group conveying attaboys"?

It's an internet tradition going back to Usenet.....

https://fanlore.org/wiki/The_Lurkers_Support_Me_in_Email

The Lurkers Support Me in Email is an argument sometimes made in online debates or flamewars, in which one person claims that lurkers in the community support his or her position and have expressed that support in private email.

---------

Yes, the lurkers support me in email
With gusto and vigour and vim
And so does the Pope and the President, and
My invisible weasel called Jim;
I'm amazed at this Internet thingie,
I've been typing so hard I've got cramp,
But I've only just worked out what "posts" are,
And tomorrow I'll take off the stamp..

Yes, the lurkers support me in email,
And they're sure to back up what I post,
But they're far too scared to admit it,
Since the flamers here char them to toast...
The lurkers support me in email,
And I *do* know about netiquette,
I can prove that my sig looks fine fifty lines big,
You should see all the fan mail I get...
-----

See also, "Great Silent Majority"...

 
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Seems Rob embraces free speech until free speech kicks him in the rear.

Maybe Rob should have said that people are entitled to their opinions and that he will EMBRRACE those that DO NOT agree with HIM instead of characterizring it as taking a beating. He should realize that his actions are interpreted by some as a slap in the face.
 
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Usenet. You are showing your online age.
Who didn't love a good old flamewar, when done properly.

Unfortunately, this war is a bit one sided, don't you think?
The protagonist wont come out and play.

-MOTO
 
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Seems Rob embraces free speech until free speech kicks him in the rear.

Maybe Rob should have said that people are entitled to their opinions and that he will EMBRRACE those that DO NOT agree with HIM instead of characterizring it as taking a beating. He should realize that his actions are interpreted by some as a slap in the face.

Can you imagine him coming here and trying to clarify his tweet?
The attacks would be monstrous, he is far better staying away and letting things settle, the internet archives are very unforgiving.

Personally I think opinions are opinions and actions are actions.

Sometimes one says things but does quite the opposite and I personally think nobody should be judged by a single spoken word or tweet. In today's social media world a lot of people have put their foot in their mouth and paid a high price.

Social media should have a setting in your account where it sets all posts to a 24 hour delay. This way people who make chronic mistakes can think about their posts and review them the next day before posting. I bet you a lot of them would get deleted.

Now I don't know what his intentions were and I am not defending him as much as I am saying one should be able to apologize for a mistweet and have it be taken at face value. The more you try to explain it the bigger the controversy gets and the whole Rosanne Barr incident shows you that.

Rob should apologize if he feels he did wrong but leave it at that. Opening the can further will make this thing never go away.
 
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Lol Gab.com/epik clearyl says ROB MONSTER
 
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Monster, who denies having sympathies for white nationalism and describes himself as merely being a religious Christian, appeared on one of Striker’s many various livestream projects, “The People’s Square” on Friday, Jan. 4. Monster made comments on that show that did little to distance his company from the white nationalist movement, or its values.
“You look at a guy like David Duke for example, and he has some far-right views and so forth,” Monster says, in the context of people becoming more open-minded to controversial views through the help of the internet. “But he’s actually a pretty clever guy, he’s articulate. He knows history. And I don’t know the body of his work, but I have a feeling that many people grew up with this mindset that you shouldn’t listen to anything David Duke says.”
 
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Can you imagine him coming here and trying to clarify his tweet?
The attacks would be monstrous, he is far better staying away and letting things settle, the internet archives are very unforgiving.

Personally I think opinions are opinions and actions are actions.

Sometimes one says things but does quite the opposite and I personally think nobody should be judged by a single spoken word or tweet. In today's social media world a lot of people have put their foot in their mouth and paid a high price.

Social media should have a setting in your account where it sets all posts to a 24 hour delay. This way people who make chronic mistakes can think about their posts and review them the next day before posting. I bet you a lot of them would get deleted.

Now I don't know what his intentions were and I am not defending him as much as I am saying one should be able to apologize for a mistweet and have it be taken at face value. The more you try to explain it the bigger the controversy gets and the whole Rosanne Barr incident shows you that.

Rob should apologize if he feels he did wrong but leave it at that. Opening the can further will make this thing never go away.
I agree except that people do judge.
 
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The following are my personal thoughts on this...obviously no one has to agree with any of them.

Let me first say this clearly. The New Zealand shooting has an atrocity and my heart goes out to all of those who have had their lives impacted. As a society we should do nothing to give oxygen to hateful views such as those of the alleged shooter, and I support the Prime Ministers decision to never utter his name and efforts to make sure his manifesto and video are not distributed. I applaud her governments swift action to make the instruments of such atrocity less accessible. I am touched by those of all religions who have reached out to comfort the survivors and the families of the deceased. It was not a hoax and to say so is simply wrong, no matter who you are.

But this thread is, fundamentally, about @Rob Monster and Epik. I got to know Rob first through NPs and found him a knowledgeable and helpful and respectful presence. I was particularly impressed by the many times he reached out to help individuals who were stressed over some situation, even though there seemed little or no possible payback to Epik. I also respected that he treated those with few friends here just as though they were a VIP with a high value portfolio.

On the opening day of NamesCon I sat down with Rob for the better part of an hour in an interview that I had requested for a future article on Epik and it's CEO. For a variety of reasons, mainly my own procrastination, that article has not yet been written, and doing so now is clearly more challenging. Rob and I talked about his personal beliefs and story, Epik's development, lifetime registrations, innovative plans on the horizon and more. We did talk a bit about due process, deplatforming, and freedom of speech, but that was not the main focus I wanted.

The smart, generous and kind person I had expected from online contact was confirmed in my mind. Rob genuinely cares about people. In fact one of my strongest impressions from that hour was that Rob started it by wanting to talk about me. Rob is a caring person. I saw nothing that would suggest to me any racist opinions or hatred, in fact just the opposite. Those who have tried to paint him that way are wrong in my opinion. As @Ategy.com has related in his detailed and well expressed posts in this thread, Rob Monster even when his views are quite different, respects differences. My political views are undoubtedly very distant from his, but he seemed to genuinely respect that.

I have not seen the post that created this controversy (other than as screen captures shared). If it is true that it offered a link to the 'manifesto' and the video, and that it implied that some aspects of the video might suggest the event did not really happen, then I condemn the post.

There are valid reasons that some need access to documents such as this. Obviously law enforcement, the court system, victim advocacy professionals, researchers in racism and anti-social violence, etc. need access to the document. For me, freedom of speech does not mean anyone who wants it should have access to those documents. While I support Epik's stand on the need for due process in deciding issues such as deplatforming, that is not to say, in my opinion, that anything anyone posts has the right to be seen by anyone.

As it turns out when all of this happened I was reading a book by Dr. Julia Shaw. Early in it she asks the reader to do the following exercise. Think about the worst thing you personally did in your life? Maybe just once you bullied someone, but it was a really weak person in a tough time in life. Maybe just once you stole something and never got caught. Maybe you cheated on your taxes. Maybe you treated a mentally fragile person harshly. Maybe it is something worse. Would you want forever for people to in a black and white way know you always and forever as the bully, cheat, thief, etc., rather than the complex person, with good traits and faults, that you are?

Now I accept that people who I respect, like Shane, feel that a line has been crossed here and have called for Epik to pay the ultimate price. While I do not agree, I understand and respect his view and those who have supported him.

I thank @Slanted for his long posts here, and at Shane's blog, for giving us a glimpse into the situations that probably helped to contribute to the unfortunate response. I disagree with those who say it is irrelevant and simply an excuse. In difficult and stressful times knowing context helps.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe how smart people can come to believe in complex and unrealistic conspiracy scenarios. To some degree I even respect their right to believe crazy things. But only up to the point where their beliefs begin to harm or threaten other people. Parents who went through heartbreak when their children were killed in their school and were then continuously hounded on social media by those who proclaim it did not happen and it was just a staged government to try to take away guns were hurt cruelly. Conspiracy theories are not without consequences. Promoting conspiracy theories hurts real people. Promoting manifestos of shooters makes the world more dangerous.

As wrong as the (apparent) post was, I think it is not fair to Epik and its employees or to Rob to let one tweet (if it was a tweet) forever characterize the man and the company. What I do feel is needed however is the following:
  • A clear statement from Epik that they apologize for the post and recognize how wrong it was.
  • A clear statement from Epik that a post like that will never happen again and procedures to make sure that it will not.
  • A clear statement that while they continue to stand up for due process and freedom of speech, that there are limits on free speech when making items available will extend pain to victims or potentially lead to increased risk. Anyone who has been charged in a violent crime should have everything they wrote archived (in case later found not guilty) in a form that cannot be generally accessed until court proceedings are complete. That would include the writings of all shooters. In other words access to this manifesto and video should immediately cease, if it is still available (I do not know).
  • Some action to mitigate the hurt that was caused by the unfortunate post.
  • Just as the head of Starbucks instituted company wide measures to correct for racial profiling, Epik should commit to measures where specialists help all employees see that free speech can not go so far as to inflict additional pain on sufferers and heighten risk. This is something many organizations, not just Epik, need to take seriously. Epik should refocus to lead responsible freedom of speech, not wide open freedom of speech.
I stopped wearing my Epik cap yesterday. I challenge the company to institute changes so that I can once again proudly wear the cap. Rob and Epik are smart and forward looking and focussed on providing great service and products. Rob is a kind and generous person. I want to see them recover from this. But we must all learn from this.

Bob
 
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Companies the size of Epik consist of many unalike people devoting the majority of every week toward a collective goal, pigeonholed under the company's name. It is detestable to cast judgment or hatred on the whole company based on what a bite-sized percentage of employees at the company do, even if that's the CEO. "Epik" does not belong in the title or this exchange.

Do you boycott companies in the domain industry that have political beliefs in conflict with yours? No.

@Addison Epik has officially gone to Rob's defense using the company's Twitter account:

https://twitter.com/EpikDotCom/status/1081389181614673920

Don't know if this means anything to anyone but just stating the facts. Not casting judgement or hatred on anyone.
 
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The following are my personal thoughts on this...obviously no one has to agree with any of them.

Let me first say this clearly. The New Zealand shooting has an atrocity and my heart goes out to all of those who have had their lives impacted. As a society we should do nothing to give oxygen to hateful views such as those of the alleged shooter, and I support the Prime Ministers decision to never utter his name and efforts to make sure his manifesto and video are not distributed. I applaud her governments swift action to make the instruments of such atrocity less accessible. I am touched by those of all religions who have reached out to comfort the survivors and the families of the deceased. It was not a hoax and to say so is simply wrong, no matter who you are.

But this thread is, fundamentally, about @Rob Monster and Epik. I got to know Rob first through NPs and found him a knowledgeable and helpful and respectful presence. I was particularly impressed by the many times he reached out to help individuals who were stressed over some situation, even though there seemed little or no possible payback to Epik. I also respected that he treated those with few friends here just as though they were a VIP with a high value portfolio.

On the opening day of NamesCon I sat down with Rob for the better part of an hour in an interview that I had requested for a future article on Epik and it's CEO. For a variety of reasons, mainly my own procrastination, that article has not yet been written, and doing so now is clearly more challenging. Rob and I talked about his personal beliefs and story, Epik's development, lifetime registrations, innovative plans on the horizon and more. We did talk a bit about due process, deplatforming, and freedom of speech, but that was not the main focus I wanted.

The smart, generous and kind person I had expected from online contact was confirmed in my mind. Rob genuinely cares about people. In fact one of my strongest impressions from that hour was that Rob started it by wanting to talk about me. Rob is a caring person. I saw nothing that would suggest to me any racist opinions or hatred, in fact just the opposite. Those who have tried to paint him that way are wrong in my opinion. As @Ategy.com has related in his detailed and well expressed posts in this thread, Rob Monster even when his views are quite different, respects differences. My political views are undoubtedly very distant from his, but he seemed to genuinely respect that.

I have not seen the post that created this controversy (other than as screen captures shared). If it is true that it offered a link to the 'manifesto' and the video, and that it implied that some aspects of the video might suggest the event did not really happen, then I condemn the post.

There are valid reasons that some need access to documents such as this. Obviously law enforcement, the court system, victim advocacy professionals, researchers in racism and anti-social violence, etc. need access to the document. For me, freedom of speech does not mean anyone who wants it should have access to those documents. While I support Epik's stand on the need for due process in deciding issues such as deplatforming, that is not to say, in my opinion, that anything anyone posts has the right to be seen by anyone.

As it turns out when all of this happened I was reading a book by Dr. Julia Shaw. Early in it she asks the reader to do the following exercise. Think about the worst thing you personally did in your life? Maybe just once you bullied someone, but it was a really weak person in a tough time in life. Maybe just once you stole something and never got caught. Maybe you cheated on your taxes. Maybe you treated a mentally fragile person harshly. Maybe it is something worse. Would you want forever for people to in a black and white way know you always and forever as the bully, cheat, thief, etc., rather than the complex person, with good traits and faults, that you are?

Now I accept that people who I respect, like Shane, feel that a line has been crossed here and have called for Epik to pay the ultimate price. While I do not agree, I understand and respect his view and those who have supported him.

I thank @Slanted for his long posts here, and at Shane's blog, for giving us a glimpse into the situations that probably helped to contribute to the unfortunate response. I disagree with those who say it is irrelevant and simply an excuse. In difficult and stressful times knowing context helps.

Frankly, I find it hard to believe how smart people can come to believe in complex and unrealistic conspiracy scenarios. To some degree I even respect their right to believe crazy things. But only up to the point where their beliefs begin to harm or threaten other people. Parents who went through heartbreak when their children were killed in their school and were then continuously hounded on social media by those who proclaim it did not happen and it was just a staged government to try to take away guns were hurt cruelly. Conspiracy theories are not without consequences. Promoting conspiracy theories hurts real people. Promoting manifestos of shooters makes the world more dangerous.

As wrong as the (apparent) post was, I think it is not fair to Epik and its employees or to Rob to let one tweet (if it was a tweet) forever characterize the man and the company. What I do feel is needed however is the following:
  • A clear statement from Epik that they apologize for the post and recognize how wrong it was.
  • A clear statement from Epik that a post like that will never happen again and procedures to make sure that it will not.
  • A clear statement that while they continue to stand up for due process and freedom of speech, that there are limits on free speech when making items available will extend pain to victims or potentially lead to increased risk. Anyone who has been charged in a violent crime should have everything they wrote archived (in case later found not guilty) in a form that cannot be generally accessed until court proceedings are complete. That would include the writings of all shooters. In other words access to this manifesto and video should immediately cease, if it is still available (I do not know).
  • Some action to mitigate the hurt that was caused by the unfortunate post.
  • Just as the head of Starbucks instituted company wide measures to correct for racial profiling, Epik should commit to measures where specialists help all employees see that free speech can not go so far as to inflict additional pain on sufferers and heighten risk. This is something many organizations, not just Epik, need to take seriously. Epik should refocus to lead responsible freedom of speech, not wide open freedom of speech.
I stopped wearing my Epik cap yesterday. I challenge the company to institute changes so that I can once again proudly wear the cap. Rob and Epik are smart and forward looking and focussed on providing great service and products. Rob is a kind and generous person. I want to see them recover from this. But we must all learn from this.

Bob
agreed
 
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I think in Europe you can be jailed for saying the holocaust didn't happen. I'm not sure but i think having neonazi symbols, like the swastika, is also illegal

So nz is just following this sort of thjng.

in germany it's definitely illegal

but not sure if jail is the unavoidable consequence
 
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