Located in Reviews started by MapleDots, Mar 20, 2019.
Any Nigerian friends on namepros?
Tia, I appreciate you. Why? First of all, you are in this with your real name and you post what is on your heart. Do I wish you were less harsh and not judgmental? Sure but you are enabling a great debate.
As for Frank, he is a client and I don't know him super well. He is less logical in his arguments and I think he said he is done with this thread so I am counting on you, Llama and a few others now.
At some point, I think the Christians and Truthseekers will stop being cowards and will start engaging in this thread. When that happens, and it will, things will get really interesting.
So specific to the plan, what do you think of this?
- Engage hardened atheists in debates that they can never win while spreading the Gospel and relentlessly dropping truth bombs and sending people down rabbit holes as they search for truth.
- Use social media to trigger social justice warriors into greatly increasing brand awareness of Epik while concurrently providing a vast number of authoritative backlinks to various Epik products.
- Pray without ceasing for everyone who finds this thread in the hope that they will find the truth and that it will set them free.
- Invite all the people whose lives were made better because of free speech and for being introduced to life-changing truth to use Epik products, help us improve them, and to amplify Epik on social media.
- Lay up treasures in heaven by saving souls and looking forward to spending eternity with tens of thousands of people who will benefit from these discussions, both directly and indirectly.
Mind you, this was not pre-meditated. It really just came into my head this morning based on the input from this thread. I just wanted to share a rough framework.
By the way, we are now at an impressive 25,844 views on this thread which is almost as much as the famous Gab thread from October 2018. I know this was supposed to be a beat-down but I like it.
Thanks in advance. And do check out BitMitigate.com. I think I would be prepared to pay you to use it. If interested, let's discuss offline. I am serious. Not trolling.
Sure. Why not. I could use a couple grand. I like my treasures on Earth.
OK LAST ONE..
THOSE DIRTY IMMINGRANTS wITH LOW IQ lol
Why surround yourself with these racists..hm..
This was all before Epik acquired BitMitigate. I doubt he has posted such stuff since. We have had a lot of philosophical talks. He is not a Christian. In fact, for now, I think he is a hardened atheist.
I am actually quite confident that the Nick Lim that emerges over the next few years will not only be a great technologist but also an articulate and thoughtful humanitarian.
That being said, Nick's comments are in the same general range as what Nobel prize winner James Watson was known to say before the scientific establishment unpersoned him:
Dr. Watson was actually referencing data. He offended some folks. It eventually caught up with him, when someone decided to make an example of him.
Racism, and perceived racism still happens too often. It happened last week right here in my community and has all of Seattle talking:
I am sure this young woman regrets that choice and that she will be humbled by the complete lack of tact or discernment. Her folly cost her a college scholarship and has caused her family embarrassment.
One can debate nature versus nurture. The experiment has been run in South Africa. You can observe the empirical data of before, during and after. There are geniuses and idiots in every race.
All that said, I am definitely not a racist and am 100% adamant that everyone deserves to be treated as individuals, and to take personal responsibility for their choices.
Please cite 1 thing I've said that is "utter nonsense" or designed to deceive / misguide others. Anything at all. Since you have twice now accused me of dishonesty, you ought to muster specific evidence or else run off yelping with your tail between your legs.
No, don't bother saying that the sum total of what I've written is designed to obscure "the point". You've bragged repeatedly that you're too lazy to read what I've written. I have addressed the subject of this thread – "What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster" – directly and based on first-hand daily experience working at Epik and with Rob.
Also, I've explained the underlying issues of online censorship, free speech, and registrar neutrality, which led to the original scandal involving Gab.com and Epik. Those general issues and abstract principles are entangled with the particular political views of of Epik's CEO and with views expressed by Gab members (customers of a customer of Epik).
This tangle of principles and private opinions is very much "What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster". My posts have been an attempt to disentangle these strands and explain how they are interwoven or became snarled. People are welcome to think my analysis wrong. People who are busy or impatient need not read what I've written at all. But people who call me dishonest have a responsibility to read what I say. Laziness is not unethical, Frank. But sloppy slander is.
One fact you would have gleaned, Frank, from actually reading my posts is that Rob and I disagree markedly. Yes, I have defended Rob because I know him better than most of the bystanders who have rushed to condemn him based on hearsay or incomplete / distorted information. But my defense of Rob has not been flattering. Indeed, I have been critical. Yes, I have defended Epik because I know Epik – the team, the platform, the services, the policies, the goals – from the inside after 2 years as the company's director of operations.
Those who read my posts know that I'm acting as an individual – meaning my comments here are my own opinions, and responding here in NamePros is not a task I was asked to perform. This should be clear not only because I said so at the outset but also given the public disagreement between myself and Rob on many points. Furthermore, I resigned on March 26. It's an absurd misreading of this thread to believe that Rob and I are acting in concert with our posts. He has his views. I have mine. We have diverged.
Perhaps you should have listened to me and others who asked you to stop posting pages ago. If you have forgotten what this thread was originally about, then maybe that's a result of pursuing long tangents like determining the truth or falsity of the Bible or evaluating whether the world is flat. I don't waste my time with such irrelevant topics. Frank, if you're lost, distracted, and confused, don't blame me for "deceiving and misguiding" you. That's all you, bud.
Let me say something here. My own views are the polar opposite of what I see espoused by Nick Lim (in the Gab posts above) with regard to race, immigration, and other topics. Since I have never participated in Gab, I'm seeing this for the first time now.
Rob hired Nick initially for a short-term contract to write code. Specifically, to develop an alternative method for domains to continue resolving web content even after the domain is suspended or deleted. This was intended as a backup in case of online censorship. And this backup feature also provided additional assurance for a product Epik had been offering for many years: Forever Domains.
I believe Rob met Nick through Gab. Although those of us who don't participate in Gab tend to think of Gab primarily for the racism it contains, it is evidently true that Gab members have other interests in common – in particular, fear of censorship. That is hardly surprising, since Gab was indisputably the target of an extralegal campaign of censorship. So are other right-wing websites. (I can attest to that personally because just yesterday I answered someone who demanded that Epik take down another website.) Right-wing politics in the USA has long been tinged with a sense of embattled persecution. Even Fox News discusses the mainstream media as though it were a plot to stifle conservative views.
So I believe the common ground Rob found with Nick was primarily this anti-censorship focus. Any white-supremacist views that Nick espouses would be "baggage". Those views may be a consequence of where Rob found Nick, but this doesn't necessarily imply that Rob admired or agreed with those views. Rob may have hired Nick in spite of (not because of) his opinions.
It is understandable that Rob would find people who share his concerns about online censorship inside Gab. As I've described previously, Rob became active on Gab following the scandal that arose when Epik accepted the domain transfer for Gab.com, defending the registration against a public pressure campaign to de-platform and eliminate the website. While the press caricatured Rob as an antisemite, apparently the Gab members rallied behind Rob. Therefore it is not surprising that Rob, who has always engaged personally with everybody, and whose own politics is somewhere on the political right, became involved in Gab discussions, leading Rob to meet Nick, who is a young serial tech entrepreneur.
When I met Nick at NamesCon, he was simply a programmer hired by Rob for a short-term contract. Beyond that, however, I saw a promising young man (Nick is 20 or 21) who still has a lot to learn about life and the domain industry. Rob obviously wished to mentor Nick. Also, Rob told me often how impressed he was by Nick's speed, initiative, and vision for completing software projects. So I was not very shocked when Rob acqui-hired Nick Lim together with his company BitMitigate, for which Rob is very ambitious.
I personally have never discussed anything but technical topics with Nick. We have had very little opportunity to collaborate, frankly, because Nick's projects (like BitMitigate) have been quite separate from the registrar / marketplace business at Epik (which I oversaw). Nick has been at Epik barely a month, and during most of that time he has been traveling to conferences. So I had no idea Nick held views like these until today.
Do I really need to say that I find white supremacist views like these abhorrent and objectionable? Factually, Nick is wrong about racial superiority / inferiority. And such erroneous opinions are not harmless by any stretch of the imagination. Honestly, it's beyond disappointing that I have to go out of my way to say that views like these are wrong.
At the same time, I would emphasize that Nick is very young. Youth doesn't excuse stupid / offensive / harmful opinions. But people need a chance to change. And Nick is young enough to change. I don't know his life story, but I gather he was forced to grow up early and to teach himself how to succeed without as much guidance or perhaps as much exposure to moderate or diverse viewpoints as you or I might have been lucky to receive. So I would condemn the white supremacist views and statements, but I would not condemn Nick.
It's also true that white supremacist views have become increasingly and alarmingly mainstream in the past few years. From my perspective, the Trump presidency itself is a symptom of this. More moderate people on the right, who support Trump, will take issue with my saying that, of course. But I think it's demonstrably true that the number of people in the USA and elsewhere that publicly espouse views similar to Nick's is larger than the rest of us would like to see – and growing. My hunch is that "alt-right" opinions in general are more prevalent among young white males who spend a lot of time in online forums. Nick being a young programmer and having spent a lot of time online over the years, he belongs to the demographic that is most at risk of believing this white-supremacist garbage. If you believe, as I do, that this is a widespread social problem, then curing it begins with some willingness to tolerate the person, to understand why they have been misled, and to find a way to persuade them to change their views.
My interactions with Nick have been minimal. But I have interacted with Rob daily for the past 2 years. And I have never heard Rob say what Nick is quoted as saying. So, in my experience, Rob doesn't seem to share Nick's white supremacist views. Distinctions between Rob's right-wing views and Nick's quite extreme views may be difficult for progressives to understand. But those distinctions matter a great deal. To some extent, Rob probably has viewed Nick's views (to whatever extent he knew of them) as extreme opinions that could be rendered more tolerant. Previously, I have explained that Rob – as a christian – has a strong impulse to evangelize, to preach to the sinners and save them. Rob tolerates people that others will condemn, but it doesn't necessarily mean Rob shares their most extreme views.
I don't wish to minimize the corrosive influence of white supremacist views. But we can't round up the racists and put them in a fenced-in camp. They are among us. We can't get rid of them unless we respect them enough to persuade them not to be racists.
It is exasperating to be explaining Nick's views or Rob's views or the differences between them – especially since I disagree sharply with the private opinions of both. And it is exhausting to explain – even though it is true – that private views of Nick or Rob are not a reflection of Epik, the domain registrar. In large part, this is why I resigned 10 days ago. Nevertheless, because of my vantage point at Epik, I do have some responsibility to clarify the situation. Explanation isn't exoneration. I cannot excuse Nick's statements and would never dream of doing so. But, well, welcome to life in 2019, folks. The alt right is part of our society, like it or not.
It's twitter, but thanks, reading your post
You all made me to have to come back again
Science, religion, AI, Free Speech, Domains (as a vehicle for free speech), and people's personalities and beliefs which have been discussed here are all tied together and contribute to having a better understanding of the big picture.
It is easy to lose faith in religion and honestly we can’t blame people for shying away from religious institutions and frame of mind considering the way that some have used religion to promote hatred and hostilities amongst us while they themselves live in the lap of luxury and comfort in their multimillion dollar homes showing off their fancy robes and jeweled ceremonial objects while turning a blind eye to all the abuse and suffering that goes on in rest of the world, and on top of that it makes it even more difficult to want to join those who are using religion as a cult to suppress, oppress, and even eliminate people whom they don't like or that they don't agree with.
So if there is a God which I personally believe that there is perhaps God is fed up with religion too and is somehow frustrated by all these religious people who spend so much time in worship while ignoring the path that God would like for us to take. Free will is as important as free speech and as such God wants us to use our intelligence and intuition to follow a logical and compassionate way of thinking that leads to a better situation for humanity (and our environment) as a whole.
Quantum Physics is disrupting all our old understandings of the world around us as we enter a new realm of science that is hard to comprehend proving that there are things that even our most brilliant scientist still don't understand and as such we should not be so quick to dismiss what might be out of our ability to grasp such as the existence of God or the origin of Life and the Universe. Since we can't fully comprehend these things we owe it to ourselves to at least deal with them with an open mind while we search for the truth.
For those who perhaps rightfully have become frustrated with religion perhaps they should look at God not in the context of religion, but from a scientific point of view that perhaps can lead to coming to a logical conclusion that there has to be a greater force that is keeping our world stable in the chaos of quantum particles that are there one second and vanish the next. Perhaps it might take a few more years before Artificial Intelligence can make sense of it all and solve all the mysteries of the Universe and to tell us if we truly exist or if we are a mere projection that can vanish at any time if not kept stable by a greater force.
We take pride in our technological marvels such as computers and the Internet, yet we seem to ignore the fact that our own brains are considered to be very sophisticated computers too which are capable of storing, receiving, sending, and processing information as part of a larger network that has existed for thousands of years and perhaps this natural and ancient network constitutes a conscious and intelligent entity that we call God. Considering that the average lifespan of a human being is usually less then 100 years, then it sounds logical to assume that no matter how much we think we are in control, but there has to be a greater force that is in charge in the span of millennia.
Nevertheless we should keep an open mind about all this and let AI find the answers to all our questions in the near future. Perhaps primitive life forms were the ones that created the Natural Network of Life over the eons which then created (programmed) our souls in human bodies that had evolved from lower life forms later through evolution, think of it as hardware and software in computers they are created through totally separate and different processes, but both are necessary for the whole unit to function and once connected together they collectively create a network that is bigger and more powerful than the individual parts that are involved.
This is my last post here. Honest to God.
Please... God... noooo! Don't go! Just came back with fresh supply of popcorn... can't wait for Frank's succint response to all this!
I hope the post the quote below comes from wont be your last...I find them thought provoking and interesting.
However, I fully expect that AI will eventually be the downfall of mankind (assuming we survive a few more decades). Thankfully I believe I will have moved on to the next level/realm/dimension before that time arrives.
Get Yer Popcorn
I suppose the Epik guys here will recognizethe voice?
Hey Trump, allow me to take your website offline and offer my services to mitigate such attacks :D
Dear @oldtimer - I don't normally quote entire posts of others, but in response to this one, I just want to echo it, and say "God Bless You" for injecting the decorum of an elder statesman.
The process of finding the truth is hard enough. Recently it has gotten easier but that could change. I hope most here will agree that we don't need to make it harder to connect the dots than it already is!
I never saw that one. Nick was 17 at the time. I guess this is what they mean when they say that someone's security is so terrible a high-schooler could take them down. And to think he is much wiser now and his tools have improved as a result of 4 years of working at a 100 hour/week pace. So, yes, you have officially been introduced to a gifted technologist who now works for the good guys. Be relieved.
those are quotes from the long text above:
…..) "Rob hired Nick initially for a short-term contract to write code."
….) "When I met Nick at NamesCon, he was simply a programmer hired by Rob for a short-term contract"
...)"So I believe the common ground Rob found with Nick was primarily this anti-censorship focus."
…) ".... leading Rob to meet Nick, who is a young serial tech entrepreneur."
….) "Rob may have hired Nick in spite of (not because of) his opinions."
…) "So, in my experience, Rob doesn't seem to share Nick's white supremacist views."
… ) "Nick being a young programmer and having spent a lot of time online over the years, he belongs to the demographic that is most at risk of believing this white-supremacist garbage."
….) "Any white-supremacist views that Nick espouses would be "baggage". Those views may be a consequence of where Rob found Nick, but this doesn't necessarily imply that Rob admired or agreed with those views."
...) "To some extent, Rob probably has viewed Nick's views (to whatever extent he knew of them) as extreme opinions that could be rendered more tolerant."
…) "Previously, I have explained that Rob – as a christian – has a strong impulse to evangelize, to preach to the sinners and save them. Rob tolerates people that others will condemn, but it doesn't necessarily mean Rob shares their most extreme views."
….) "Rob obviously wished to mentor Nick. Also, Rob told me often how impressed he was by Nick's speed, initiative, and vision for completing software projects."
… ) "Distinctions between Rob's right-wing views and Nick's quite extreme views may be difficult for progressives to understand. But those distinctions matter a great deal."
…) "I personally have never discussed anything but technical topics with Nick"
…) " I had no idea Nick held views like these until today."
…) "My interactions with Nick have been minimal."
…) "Factually, Nick is wrong about racial superiority / inferiority."
…) "So I would condemn the white supremacist views and statements, but I would not condemn Nick."
…) "But I think it's demonstrably true that the number of people in the USA and elsewhere that publicly espouse views similar to Nick's is larger than the rest of us would like to see – and growing."
…) "But, well, welcome to life in 2019, folks. The alt right is part of our society, like it or not."
Succinct? Looks like Frank is now just collecting fragments of what I write and assembling some sort of multi-page collage.
I realize that NameLlama is sock-puppet account, newly created in February 2019 with no trading history, and only engaging negatively on a few threads.
As for being dumb, I think Einstein said it eloquently:
The search for truth is a worthy and noble act. Free speech powered by a public internet that nearly everyone can access is giving everyone the opportunity to ask important questions and find the answers.
Just keep in mind that the people who believe this stuff have spent more time looking into the matter than you and many of them know that they will be laughed out of most rooms if they utter it.
I happen to own a copy of August Piccard's book. Popular Science quoted this brilliant scientist in a 1931 article after he navigated his balloon to 10 miles above the earth's surface.
Thanks to free speech and a public internet, you can still find this stuff and even buy the original source material inexpensively.
An intuitive, consumer-friendly and low-cost Internet is a force for tremendous good. For anyone who is curious and has discernment, it is a great time to be alive.
As for Google and YouTube, we critique them for censorship and bias, and indeed they may have it, but the reality is that they too have been a force for good along the way, and to this day.
I do believe that there is a strong push in progress to make it harder to search for truth but also more socially unpleasant to propagate it as it becomes easier to do so. It is an interesting dynamic.
Is it possible that those who want to conflate free speech and hate speech, are the same folks who want to throw the baby out with the bathwater? I think perhaps.
Not sure who you are talking about when you say “Christians” and “Truthseekers”. Obviously you don’t consider anyone already here a Christian, even when I told you I was one on the phone. And how do you define “Truthseekers”? Hopefully not those that prescribe to a certain narrative and try to get the facts to fit that narrative, or if not able to, try to discredit them.
When someone is presented with facts, logical reasoning, and what is clearly evident, but then pivots or changes the subject when those can’t be refuted, cannot be put on a pedestal as a “Truthseeker”. And why combine the words “truth seeker”? Sounds like a label used by purveyors of conspiracies to call themselves that.
Look, you are free to believe the earth is flat.
You are free to believe that the only plausible explanation why we can’t fly over the Arctic circle is because we will reach the edge of the world like in the movie The Thirteenth Floor where the main character hit the edge of a simulated world. And the Government wants to hide that from us.
You are free to believe that space flight is not real and the the moon landing was faked.
You are free to express your opinion on those matters and others if that is important to you. That’s part of free speech. Others can refute and that is part of freedom of speech and expression.
However, when it comes to hate speech that incites people to violence then that is completely different. You say you are not a white nationalist or anti-Semite, (I assume you would say you are not anti-Arab, either, right?), etc. But at the very least you seem to sympathize with the ideas and consipiracies such individuals promote. And it is not in the name of “truth”.
You and I had a very civil conversation on the phone for almost an hour. I don’t regret it at all although we did not end up agreeing on many, if not most points. After we concluded, I couldn’t help but wonder about one specific thing that still troubles me. Maybe you can clarify. And I hate to put this in a public forum, but you are encouraging debate and want this thread to continue, so maybe this is the right moment. And it relates to your documented posts about the New Zealand mosque mass shooting.
If you recall, I mentioned to you the dangers of minimizing terrorist attacks like that on the New Zealand mosque. Especially going as far as claiming it was a hoax, staged, not real. That it diminishes what the survivals and the families are feeling, intensifying their pain. And I used the example of the Parkland mass shooting and how it affected the survivors and their families. That it led some or many to suffer from PTSD and even led some to commit suicide. My point: words matter and can be as dangerous as weapons. Especially when someone is dealing with emotional pain or worse. The Bible says that reckless words can pierce like a sword.
Do you remember what you said to me? That those who died by suicide in the Parkland aftermath suffered depression because they regretted (or had deep emotional remorse) allowing themselves to be coerced into propagating that “staged” attack. I am of course paraphrasing here and could be out of context or I misheard. So I thought I’d give you the chance to clarify, expound, or refute that. It’s one point that really stood out for me. Maybe I misunderstood you. Do you believe that the Parkland mass shooting was a hoax as well?
Remember the girl that urged her boyfriend via text to kill himself and he eventually went through with it? Was she exercising her free speech and thus should not be charged with a sentence?
Hate speech is the weaponization of free speech.
Thanks for a thought inspiring post. Notwithstanding that I disagree with some of your points. Disagree at a tangent, to be more precise. Take that last example and question I've quoted above...
I have no problem whatsoever with anybody offing themselves should they decide it's time to give the rest of us a little more space on this Earth... it's getting a bit crowded. If somebody does this of their own free will, well, the consenting adults rule comes to mind. Read: none of mine (or your) business!
Now about the allegedly complicit girlfriend... yes, she was excercising free speech. I'm all for that. In fact, I'm hardcore and see no need to criminalize shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater, either. What we need to do, and quickly, is start educating people, starting in junior high school, if not earlier, about legal and criminal aspects of... consequences of perfectly legal actions!
Driving a car is legal. Manslaughter, while driving, is another story. Excercising free speech, whether in a crowded theater or on the phone with a boyfriend is, or should be, perfectly legal, too. Unless there are consequences. Then your world falls apart. Your sorry ass should be punished to the full extent of the law. Not for exercising free speech, but for causing bodily harm or death.
Which brings us back to your very astute example. I'm with you here, but at a tangent. Read: what exactly do you propose to charge the girlfriend with? And how do you aim to prove her actions, words, were the cause of this; that the boyfriend had not excercised another freedom - his free will?
The Astro-Nots know the deal. They got paid and swore oaths. They are rolling with the story. They have no choice, and if indeed "God sent strong delusion" then it was God's will:
You can watch the full Apollo 11 press conference here if you like. Take note of the very happy people who just made history.
As a Christian, you might appreciate this article which breaks down who, what why, when, where and how.
I remember watching the heavily promoted launch of the space shuttle Challenger. Lots of schools showed it at school and kids watched it explode. There is reasonably good evidence that nobody died.
So, yes, the rabbit hole here is deep but it is an important one. I am sure that once you start connecting the dots, you will begin to appreciate free speech and privately owned domains even more.
Let's say that the Earth is flat and the moon landing was faked and all these other things are indeed true.
The question I have is: why? Why would someone go through the effort to keep everyone believing these lies? Not to mention the costs associated? Why would someone spend all that time, effort and money. And who are they?
Well, I support lawful free speech.
As for hurting people's feelings, most of us learned at an early age the old rhyme, "Sticks and stones may hurt my bones, but words will never hurt me".
In retrospect, I think that is not right. I believe words are spirit, and they can hurt. Reputations can be damaged. Relationships can be destroyed. Etc.
So, yes, I think free speech IS a double-edged sword, and some speech IS hateful, i.e. it comes from someone's heart that is hateful or angry. In Mathew 5:22, it refers to Aramaic word "racha".
As for weapons, I believe in the right to bear arms, including semi-automatic weapons, and high capacity magazines. However, I believe all lives are precious and that killing, even in self defense is a last resort.
Here are my preferred weapons for battle:
However, live by the sword, die by the sword. So, choose your weapons wisely. I prefer non-hateful, lawful free speech.
Separate names with a comma.