What The Heck Is Going On With Tdnam

[circa1850]

Today I recieved a series of emails from TDNAM within 30 minutes of each other that raise serious suspicions of sales or serious improprieties after winning four different auctions recently. To get the full gist of the issue, please read all emails as well as my response.
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[email protected] wrote:

Your question has been received. You should expect a response within 24 hours.

This is your Incident ID: 1532282

Thanks,
GoDaddy.com
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Please do not reply to this email. Emails sent to this address will not be answered.
© 2007 GoDaddy.com. All rights reserved.

Our support staff has responded to your request, details of which are described below:

Discussion Notes
Support Staff Response
Dear (name),

Thank you for using The Domain Name Aftermarket (TDNAM). Unfortunately, FOSSIL.INFO and NEAR.INFO was listed as Expired Name Auctions in error. This transaction has been cancelled and you will be refunded for your payment. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

Regards,
The Domain Name Aftermarket Team
[email protected]


If you need further assistance with this matter, please reply to this email or contact customer service at (480) 505-8877 and reference [Incident ID: 1532282].

Thanks,
GoDaddy.com
© 2007 GoDaddy.com. All rights reserved.
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My response to TDNAM/GoDaddy

How is it even REMOTELY possible for TDNAM, which is solely owned by GoDaddy, to list two expired domain names in "error"?

It is also VERY SUSPICIOUS being that I first get an email stating MY QUESTION HAS BEEN RECIEVED (incident 1532282) when an inquiry was never submitted by me which was timed at 113 pm. This was followed by a response in less than 30 minutes at 132 pm INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR SUPPORT REQUEST outlining that an error has been made. I do not believe for one minute that my account has been compromised but rather believe I that something else is going on and someone is attempting to cover up their actions at my expense.

Why is it just now coming to your attention, and then to my attention, more than a month after the domain name expired and was won by me in auction? According to WHOIS information, the new expiration date is December 1, 2007 which indicates that the previous expiration date in "error" was December 1, 2006. Who actually initiated the inquiry and where did the inquiry originate from? Was it internal?

As a whole owned entity of GoDaddy, TDNAM sole purpose of being is to auction off expired and expiring domain names of and for GoDaddy. It is impossible for me to imagine how an "error" like this could possibly occur.

Also on the same day, today, I received notification of two domains that I recently won were reclaimed by their owner. They are CMR.INFO and GGW.INFO which, remarkably, are owned by the same individual listed in the WHOIS database as the person who now owns FOSSIL.INFO and NEAR.INFO.

Yet, no such email was sent regarding FOSSIL.INFO and NEAR.INFO, which supposedly expired more than a month ago, was sent as a courtesy notification.

Surprisingly, the domain name is now registered to the same person as GGW.INFO and CMR.INFO. Even more surprisingly, the domain names are now in the possession of someone who has transferred them to the registrar service of MONIKER.

How is it even possible for GoDaddy to auction domain names that are at MONIKER when MONIKER has their own auction service, and to the best of my knowledge, a totally separate entity and with no affiliation to GoDaddy?

I think a further explanation other than "in error" is needed as this is a little more than a curious as to how this possibly could have happened.

To say that I have questions and suspicions as to how this happened or could even possibly happened is an understatement. I will be looking into this matter and bringing to the attention of sources from outside of GoDaddy/TDNAM as well as explore the possible legal avenues that I have regarding this "error".

Regards,

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This is so far fetched. My response was sent to [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], and [email protected].

I have serious suspicions that there was some deal making going on after the close of the auctions, perhaps to a larger customer than I who gets preferential treatment. I realize that these are serious allegations. But when 1+1+1+1=3, then something is not adding up.

I have saved all the WHOIS information as it is currently registered should someone get the bright idea to make this info private.

Naturally, TDNAM/GoDaddy has refunded all the auction fees and registration fees associated with these four domain names but this is of little consequece under these circumstances.

Paranoid? No. An expired domain name is an expired domain name and it does not all of a sudden end up at another registrar with a new registrant more than a month after I won it at auction.

And the alledged letters sent and responded to by TDNAM today are purely bogus, especially when they are personally addressed to me and to the email that TDNAM has on file.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[LogiK]

I Cant Believe I Actually Read That.
Anyway.. They Took The Domains Off You 1 Whole Month After They Were Regged?
+ The Old Expiry Date Is V. Suspicious.. Im Sure I Seen Another Topic Like This.
Is GoDaddy Going Corrupt?

 

[Spade]

circa1850 -

Its interesting. I would like to know the time line a little more clearly. What day did you win them at auction and what day were they moved to the new owner? I might suggest getting someone who has access to old whois - like a premium membership at whois.sc (Domain Tools) to check for you.

Now, my guess. Depending on the time frame - this person may have been a Retention customer (executive account) and his rep never renewed these domain names. I have seen that happen, and they simply redeem them. Afteral the original owner can redeem the domain name several weeks after auction, BUT this does seem awfully suspicious to have this happen to 4 domain names.

I might also recommend sending an email to (president(at)godaddy.com).

Justin

 

[circa1850]

I Cant Believe I Actually Read That.
Anyway.. They Took The Domains Off You 1 Whole Month After They Were Regged?
+ The Old Expiry Date Is V. Suspicious.. Im Sure I Seen Another Topic Like This.
Is GoDaddy Going Corrupt?

The whole thing stinks of after the auction dealings.

To begin with, when you bid on and win an expired domain name at auction on TDNAM, not a private sales, each domain name is and was the property of GoDaddy or WildWestDomains, the reseller arm of GoDaddy.

When you do win an expired domain name, you not only pay the auction price to GoDaddy, you pay the renewal fees to GoDaddy.

I am well aware of the redemption periods on domain names and I am also well aware of the 60 day transfer rule that GoDaddy places on transfer of newly registered domain names, to include classifying a newly registered domain name as me having become the new registrant. They still impose the 60 day limit to transfer out.

There is no way, that I am aware of, for TDNAM/GoDaddy to auction a domian name that was/is at Monikers and there is no way (that I am aware of) for those four domain names to suddenly show up on Monikers servers within this time frame.

The whole things stinks of a scam or a scheme. Not one but four domain names all in the same day suddenly lost, regged to someone else, and at Monikers. For more than a year I have been buying domain names on TDNAM having purchased nearly 310 and sold over 500. In more than a year, only 1 domain name has been reclaimed out of the more than 300 won. Today, I am informed of an error regarding two domains that should not have been auctioned and two additional domain names reclaimed by the owner...all four domain names belonging to the same owner and all four domain names at at monikers. How can this be? Even the ones that supposedly were reclaimed today by the owner is at monikers. Am I missing something here?

I am also a very large account holder with GoDaddy and one of their resellers. I think my days of dealing with them are about to come to a close. I may be a newbie to these forums but I am not a newbie to domains or ICANN's rules and regs and certainly not to GoDaddy.

I am open to suggestions for other registrars that have more reliable and trustworthy service and dependable. I will have to contact them about a severe price discount on transfers as we are looking at nearly 3000 domains to transfer out.

This whole episode is disgusting and pure BS. The inquiries never originated from me.

I am of the opinion that it is purely someone's poor and stupid attempt at TD or GD to cover their ass in perpetrating this scheme. Sounds like someone with a little more clout than me wanted these names and someone at TD/GD obliged them.

circa1850 -

Its interesting. I would like to know the time line a little more clearly. What day did you win them at auction and what day were they moved to the new owner? I might suggest getting someone who has access to old whois - like a premium membership at whois.sc (Domain Tools) to check for you.

Now, my guess. Depending on the time frame - this person may have been a Retention customer (executive account) and his rep never renewed these domain names. I have seen that happen, and they simply redeem them. Afteral the original owner can redeem the domain name several weeks after auction, BUT this does seem awfully suspicious to have this happen to 4 domain names.

I might also recommend sending an email to (president(at)godaddy.com).

Justin

Thanks Justin. I'll get back to you on this.

The irony? I have an executive account.

I assure you he will be hearing from me. My rep always says that he has to transfer me to someone over to TDNAM but that will not happen in this case. Someone will provide me answers and acceptable explanations or they will be dealing with a former account holder and possible legal disputes on domain ownership.

Still, nothing explains how a domain name that supposedly was expired is now regged to someone at Monikers. Nothing explains how a domain just purchased as an expired domain name this past weekend is now at monikers. Nothing explains how 4 perhaps premium .info domains are on auction at tdnam, won by me, but suddenly all four are in the name of another individual and now at monikers. (see previous response to question above).

Am I missing something? I am not aware of any agreement between Monikers and TDNAM/GoDaddy to auction off expired domains from Monikers.

I'll do a little more digging and provide you some more insight.

And I have very little use for Bob Parsons. The .eu episode was a farce and he blames everyone else except his own inept service. GoDaddy were preregging domains for customers during the sunrise period in Feb and March 2006 that were already awarded in Dec and Jan 2005. They did not interface with the .eu database and denied one ever existed. It took me talking to four supervisors over this issue until one actually got the bright idea to actually type in the URL I was giving them. As they say, the silence was deafening. I had him type in a few that GoDaddy pre-registered for me. Awarded, awarded, awarded...like I said, many as early as late November and early December 2005. Out of 276 pre-registered by me and a partner in the UK, we got a total of 5. Is that pathetic or what.

Then it took months, perhaps 5-6 months, to get refunds for all those others. Do the math...$19.95 x 271 is how long they tied up my funds.

On one of this weekly chats when Bob was spewing how the EU admininstered the whole process and how corrupt it was and how poorly they handled the whole process and blamed everyone else on the planet for all the issues, when I replied with the above information, it was all brushed aside and he would not address it. His own system was not even in tune with the outside world.

Why am I still with them? About 3000 domains is why.

If it smells like fish, then it must be sushi.

 

[oKiAo]

Sorry to hear it :/
GGW.info was one of the domains I was watching, and it says owner reclaimed.
Good luck.

5658606
ggw.info
Date Sold: 01/15/2007 02:27 PM
Reason: Owner reclaimed

 

[circa1850]

Sorry to hear it :/
GGW.info was one of the domains I was watching, and it says owner reclaimed.
Good luck.

5658606
ggw.info
Date Sold: 01/15/2007 02:27 PM
Reason: Owner reclaimed

But how can a domain name that is regged a monikers be on a TDNAM auction? Even if everything was legit, how can it be at Monikers in just two days?

And guess what?

THERE IS NOW A 5TH DOMAIN NAME, SUPPOSEDLY RECLAIMED, BY THE SAME PERSON, AND IT IS ALSO AT MONIKERS.

Here is the reply I recently received from TDNAM regarding NEAR.INFO and FOSSIL.INFO
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The emails stating your inquiry was received were actually generated when I created the email to you notifying you that the listings for FOSSIL.INFO and NEAR.INFO were cancelled. Your account has not been compromised and I apologize for the confusion.

There was an error between the .INFO registry and our servers that did not notify us when the domain names were transferred away. As a result, they were listed as Expired Name Auctions after the expiration date passed. Again, we apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. You have already been refunded for these two transactions. There are additional transactions we are also looking into, which include GGW.INFO and CMR.INFO. As we investigate the scope of this issue, you will be notified and refunded for any additional discrepancies. Again, we apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

Regards,
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I recalled getting a similar message and losing another domain that had been "reclaimed" just the other day. When I went back to look at it's particulars, guess what I found?

Here is my response to TDNAM regarding their explanation thus far as well as the discovery of a 5th domain name:
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Dear (name),

What in the heck is going on?

I just found a fifth domain name that I won at auction supposedly reclaimed by the owner.

ADDS.INFO

Guess who it is registered to? Same person as the other 4 domains

Guess where it is? Same registrar...Monikers

How is any of this possible?

And to think of the grief I have had to put up with over the year and the penalties I have had to pay when I make a mistake.

I think someone has some serious explaining to do. 5 domain names, all supposedly expired or expiring, all won by me, now all registered to someone else and at a differerent registrar.

To be quite honest, this has all the appearances of an insider improprieties and perhaps some after the auction dealings. Yes, these may be serious allegations but just simply saying an error has been made does not account for how these names suddenly showed up registered to someone else and at a different registrar, even as little as two days ago.

I will be conducting my own investigation with the aide of outside resources and individuals who have been made aware of this.

Expired domains are expired domains. Are we going to say that there is an error in the info registry for nearly a month now? I think it is beyond curious and coincidental that all 5 names in question are now with the same individual and at Monikers, especially since GoDaddy/TDNAM has a 60 day period before newly registered (including new "registrant" domain names) can be transferred.

Regards,

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I anxiously await their further response and explanation but I am not sure I can accept any rationale at this point as it is just rift with what seems to be an insider issue.

 

[labrocca]

Sorry to hear all this. If you have 3k domains contact Moniker. I know you suspect they are involved in this but I am doubtful. What MIGHT have happened is a transfer was initiated before or after they expired and Godaddy messed up. Someone threw a fit possibly and created legal actions to get Godaddy to allow the transfers. I have been moving ALL my domains to Moniker. They are truly the domainers registrar. Check the feedback thread here at NP for more on that.

I know you are bitter and pissed at GD and I don't blame you. GD imho is a poor company to deal with. I think they do their best but when it comes down to it...bottom line is all that matters. Parsons is imho not an honest guy. The TOS of GD is 100% total crap. It outlines dozens of ways you are screwed by them.

Anyways...I think my story for how this happened is plausible. Godaddy has been getting sloppy about allowing domains out. Imagine you owned GGW.info and transferred it out to Moniker..but GD didn't release it because of their 60 day rule which is imho against ICANN rules. Now the domain shows expired at GD and you screaming at them to fix this and you want the name to go to Moniker. You refuse to pay renewal fees now the domain is expired. Eventually GD auctions name and you the owner seek legal action. Eventually GD relenquishes and gives the names to Moniker.

EDIT: Yeah you just posted at the same time I did. As GD says...they messed up. They are blaming the info registry which MIGHT be true but I doubt it. The reason for all the domains being one owner was because he did a bulk transfer of some expiring domains to Moniker which GD screwed up. Seems very plausible. I don't think you can do much except show your protest by moving your domains away from GD. I am doubtful they will do anything to monetarily compensate you.

 

[Dave_Z]

Complain to Bob about it, maybe?

Maybe the domain names being at Moniker is the reason they've corrected the
error. Who knows?

Seriously there's really nothing you can do. They'll supposedly refund you per
the terms of their legal agreements, if they haven't yet.

I realize you're after full disclosure. Unfortunately the business provider can
decide what info to give and what not to reveal unless legally forced to.

If you want to make noises about it, then complain to the powers-that-be or
even the media. They won't necessarily bring you the desired results, though.

You forgot to cc it to president AT godaddy DOT com, by the way.

 

[circa1850]

Complain to Bob about it, maybe?

Maybe the domain names being at Moniker is the reason they've corrected the
error. Who knows?

The original project manager and development manager for TDNAM has since contacted me since my last post and the 5th notice.

Here is his response which is most appreciated. Please understand that names are not included to protect the rights of these individuals
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(name), allow me to introduce myself. I'm (name), the original project manager and development manager for the TDNAM site. I'm copied on all emails sent to disputes at TDNAM.com.

I typically sit back and ensure issues are being processed correctly and don't get directly involved with customer issues. I know from your earlier emails that you are a very good customer of TDNAM and freely share your feedback to the team.

I'm troubled by the issues you raised in your emails today. I believe you understand the domain industry and how expirations\re-assignments work and how TDNAM is designed to work.

I will get my key staff and DBAs on your issues in the morning to research what happened and why.

Look for an update from me tomorrow.

Thanks for your candid feedback on how we are doing.
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Obviously, this is a very unusual circumstance. Being told that there is or was a problem with an info registry could be an explanation. But if that is the case, then there will certainly be a great many of these emails coming to me as well as perhaps hundreds of other customers that even outbid me and won auctions.

Could be the start of quite a mountain of complaints and issues.

EDIT: Yeah you just posted at the same time I did. As GD says...they messed up. They are blaming the info registry which MIGHT be true but I doubt it. The reason for all the domains being one owner was because he did a bulk transfer of some expiring domains to Moniker which GD screwed up. Seems very plausible. I don't think you can do much except show your protest by moving your domains away from GD. I am doubtful they will do anything to monetarily compensate you.

Not looking for any sort of compensation but some adequate answers and accountability are in order. Who am I kidding...they don't need to answer to me.

But they are going to need to answer to the hundreds if not thousands of people who have been bidding and winning .info domains over the last month. I just found it more than coincidental that all 5 of mine are being reclaimed by the same person and all at monikers.

I assure you there were a great many LLL.info that I did not win as well as many general dictionary domain names. If it is a registry issue (and I will give them the benefit of the doubt) then they are getting ready to deal with a mountain of complaints and an army of pissed off customers and clients.

 

[labrocca]

Circa did you not read my post?

One person probably owned them all. Do you have access to whois history to verify this? It's an easy way to verify things one way or another. They are blaming the registry but I doubt it was them. I am sure it was GD holding the names from being transferred and the owner wasn't having it. There just isn't any other explanation. If you want to believe in some conspiracy to get a few names from you that's fine but I ain't buying it. Don't let your anger cloud your reasoning.

 

[circa1850]

Circa did you not read my post?

One person probably owned them all. Do you have access to whois history to verify this? It's an easy way to verify things one way or another. They are blaming the registry but I doubt it was them. I am sure it was GD holding the names from being transferred and the owner wasn't having it. There just isn't any other explanation. If you want to believe in some conspiracy to get a few names from you that's fine but I ain't buying it. Don't let your anger cloud your reasoning.

Yes, I did read your post. But I am also getting some input from other members on other forums as well as this forum and some PM's.

I would also like to hear from others who have bought domains on TDNAM in the past couple of days and have encountered the same issue.

I may not be the only one in this situation. Not into a conspiracy theory per se but I think that someone has some explaining to do other than simply send me an email "in error" message. And it appears the appropriate individuals have been alerted to this situation based on the number of emails I have received from TDNAM/GoDaddy heirarchy.

I am attempting to access a WHOIS history database to determine who has owned these domains in the past. If it turns out the same person has owned the domains names for three or four years and indeed they have been at Monikers all this time, then there may be some truth to an issue with the info registry. It is odd that of all the domains I have bought, the ones in question are .info. It there has been an issue with the info registry, then they have a huge mess on their hands.

Like I said, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and allow them to investigate but in the meantime I will be exploring options and seeing what I can find out seperate from them.

 

[Spade]

This is obviously getting very interesting. In all honesty, this response is definetly a polite brush off. One that I would have supplied if something happened that didnt quite look right but I didnt want to give you a direct answer. I would like to see the history of the whois - because that will essentially settle the issue.

If the person did in fact own the domain names and simply transfered them away, chock it up to poor performance on TDNAM's side. If not... I smell a fish..and I dont like where this is going.

Justin

 

[IAmAllanShore]

I have no idea what happened in this case specifically, but I can share one interesting anecdote that sounds similar...

NameScout.com for almost a full year after I transferred a 3 letter .org away from them would still send me "renewal notices" and it would still show up in my account despite having been moved to enom, showing up in "whois" as enom, and being completely controllable in enom's CP. I do not know if it was NameScout's fault or ICANN's or PIR, etc., but the problem, I thought, would go away once it expired enough for it not to be a bother to me anymore.

Fast forward a month or two after I stopped getting emails from NameScout, I got an email from a domainer (polite) asking how I had gotten ahold of his domain name that he had won at auction... Apparently pool.com had still auctioned off my name despite it being, very much, registered and current in my name. Fast forward three phonecalls later and I've now got a buddy in Krakow who still wants a domain that auctioned at $400 that I won't sell for that much

Anyhow, the story sounded similar, and even though I've felt like too much of an apologist for registrars recently, I thought a similar situation at a completely separate registrar might temper the responses?

Best of luck to you in your continued efforts to get things done right,
-Allan :gl:

 

[labrocca]

I have no idea what happened in this case specifically, but I can share one interesting anecdote that sounds similar...

NameScout.com for almost a full year after I transferred a 3 letter .org away from them would still send me "renewal notices" and it would still show up in my account despite having been moved to enom, showing up in "whois" as enom, and being completely controllable in enom's CP. I do not know if it was NameScout's fault or ICANN's or PIR, etc., but the problem, I thought, would go away once it expired enough for it not to be a bother to me anymore.

Fast forward a month or two after I stopped getting emails from NameScout, I got an email from a domainer (polite) asking how I had gotten ahold of his domain name that he had won at auction... Apparently pool.com had still auctioned off my name despite it being, very much, registered and current in my name. Fast forward three phonecalls later and I've now got a buddy in Krakow who still wants a domain that auctioned at $400 that I won't sell for that much

Anyhow, the story sounded similar, and even though I've felt like too much of an apologist for registrars recently, I thought a similar situation at a completely separate registrar might temper the responses?

Best of luck to you in your continued efforts to get things done right,
-Allan :gl:

Exactly. It's my experience that registrars do mess up when names are transferred out. RegisterFly is a perfect example...you have to request they delete names transferred out. They will send renewal notices and even take payments. A bad registrar is a bad registrar...is Godaddy. Yes you should blame them but don't think it's a conspiracy. How you make them pay for this mistake is up to you.

As I suggested..get your names into Moniker asap...

 

[briman1970]

Lurking... What an interesting thread! I can't wait to see how this all turns out. Oh BTW, I've figured out somewhat recently that Moniker is indeed THE BEST registrar by far (and the cheapest, if you let them know you're a Namepros member).

 

[circa1850]

Lurking... What an interesting thread! I can't wait to see how this all turns out. Oh BTW, I've figured out somewhat recently that Moniker is indeed THE BEST registrar by far (and the cheapest, if you let them know you're a Namepros member).

Hi Bri. I may need a mammoth transfer discount.

I was just contacted by someone on DNF that received the same message and had three domain names taken back as an owner renewed. I know his claim is legitimate as he won one of the domain names I did not.

And, all three are also registered to the same person with the same moniker account. This is a huge mess and someone has seriously screwed up.

How can names in a Moniker account even show up on a GoDaddy auction? Hopefully I will have some answers tomorrow as the right people higher up the food chain are now involved. Thus far tonight, I have had 2 additional confirmations of the same problems.

If it truly was an issue with the .info registry, then this is going to be an monster of a problem as my 5 taken away were won from January 1 to January 15.

The three this individual notified about just a few moments ago were also from the January 15 auction.

Lets say that it is a mistake, a registry issue, and this guy is the legitimate owner. I would be highly pissed that my domains were being auctioned off on another service, wouldn't you?

More importantly, how did it happen and exactly where is the security in the system to prevent this?

ICANN should perhaps also be brought into this as this was potentially a serious breach that could have affected any and all of us and our domain holdings.

Just a thought.

 

[circa1850]

Here is the official response and resolution from TDNAM regarding this issue:
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We have identified the issue with names being listed on TDNAM that are now registered through other registrars and have removed the names from TDNAM. We have refunded the purchase price on any domain that was purchased.

I apologize for this glitch and want to again thank you for bringing this to our attention.
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Wow! I feel much better now and I can rest assured that my several thousand domain names are safe and in good hands.

I have contacted Moniker to let them know what has transpired. I have also contacted ICANN (InterNIC) regarding this issue.

My days of buying and selling on TDNAM have come to a close.

My days of being a GoDaddy customer are also about to come to a close.

 

[Tippy]

What a BS/lame reply, I dont blame you for being " you know what " talk about giving you the run around.

... considering their last reply which sounded like they were going to give you more info...

 

[Spade]

Pretty rediculous. If your going to run an auction house - atleast make sure that the domains your auctioning off are in fact your own. Sorry to hear you went through this mess - I cant say I blame you for leaving GD.

Justin

 

[labrocca]

Told ya so.

Godaddy is full of BS. If it was an info registry problem they why is it just tdnam? We would be hearing issues all over the place. Seems like GD screwed up and doesn't want to admit it fully.

Head to Moniker...you will see how great their tools are. The service is excellent too. Never had a problem yet.