What The Heck Is Going On With Tdnam

[circa1850]

Today I recieved a series of emails from TDNAM within 30 minutes of each other that raise serious suspicions of sales or serious improprieties after winning four different auctions recently. To get the full gist of the issue, please read all emails as well as my response.
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[email protected] wrote:

Your question has been received. You should expect a response within 24 hours.

This is your Incident ID: 1532282

Thanks,
GoDaddy.com
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Please do not reply to this email. Emails sent to this address will not be answered.
© 2007 GoDaddy.com. All rights reserved.

Our support staff has responded to your request, details of which are described below:

Discussion Notes
Support Staff Response
Dear (name),

Thank you for using The Domain Name Aftermarket (TDNAM). Unfortunately, FOSSIL.INFO and NEAR.INFO was listed as Expired Name Auctions in error. This transaction has been cancelled and you will be refunded for your payment. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

Regards,
The Domain Name Aftermarket Team
[email protected]


If you need further assistance with this matter, please reply to this email or contact customer service at (480) 505-8877 and reference [Incident ID: 1532282].

Thanks,
GoDaddy.com
© 2007 GoDaddy.com. All rights reserved.
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My response to TDNAM/GoDaddy

How is it even REMOTELY possible for TDNAM, which is solely owned by GoDaddy, to list two expired domain names in "error"?

It is also VERY SUSPICIOUS being that I first get an email stating MY QUESTION HAS BEEN RECIEVED (incident 1532282) when an inquiry was never submitted by me which was timed at 113 pm. This was followed by a response in less than 30 minutes at 132 pm INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR SUPPORT REQUEST outlining that an error has been made. I do not believe for one minute that my account has been compromised but rather believe I that something else is going on and someone is attempting to cover up their actions at my expense.

Why is it just now coming to your attention, and then to my attention, more than a month after the domain name expired and was won by me in auction? According to WHOIS information, the new expiration date is December 1, 2007 which indicates that the previous expiration date in "error" was December 1, 2006. Who actually initiated the inquiry and where did the inquiry originate from? Was it internal?

As a whole owned entity of GoDaddy, TDNAM sole purpose of being is to auction off expired and expiring domain names of and for GoDaddy. It is impossible for me to imagine how an "error" like this could possibly occur.

Also on the same day, today, I received notification of two domains that I recently won were reclaimed by their owner. They are CMR.INFO and GGW.INFO which, remarkably, are owned by the same individual listed in the WHOIS database as the person who now owns FOSSIL.INFO and NEAR.INFO.

Yet, no such email was sent regarding FOSSIL.INFO and NEAR.INFO, which supposedly expired more than a month ago, was sent as a courtesy notification.

Surprisingly, the domain name is now registered to the same person as GGW.INFO and CMR.INFO. Even more surprisingly, the domain names are now in the possession of someone who has transferred them to the registrar service of MONIKER.

How is it even possible for GoDaddy to auction domain names that are at MONIKER when MONIKER has their own auction service, and to the best of my knowledge, a totally separate entity and with no affiliation to GoDaddy?

I think a further explanation other than "in error" is needed as this is a little more than a curious as to how this possibly could have happened.

To say that I have questions and suspicions as to how this happened or could even possibly happened is an understatement. I will be looking into this matter and bringing to the attention of sources from outside of GoDaddy/TDNAM as well as explore the possible legal avenues that I have regarding this "error".

Regards,

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This is so far fetched. My response was sent to [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], and [email protected].

I have serious suspicions that there was some deal making going on after the close of the auctions, perhaps to a larger customer than I who gets preferential treatment. I realize that these are serious allegations. But when 1+1+1+1=3, then something is not adding up.

I have saved all the WHOIS information as it is currently registered should someone get the bright idea to make this info private.

Naturally, TDNAM/GoDaddy has refunded all the auction fees and registration fees associated with these four domain names but this is of little consequece under these circumstances.

Paranoid? No. An expired domain name is an expired domain name and it does not all of a sudden end up at another registrar with a new registrant more than a month after I won it at auction.

And the alledged letters sent and responded to by TDNAM today are purely bogus, especially when they are personally addressed to me and to the email that TDNAM has on file.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[circa1850]

Can someone sum up what the incedent is?

It regards TDNAM/GoDaddy selling expired domain names that were not expired and not GoDaddy's names.

None were expired, none were at GoDaddy, nearly all were at Monikers (some at eNom and a couple of other registrars), none should have ever been listed as expired to begin with, this went on for several weeks, I and several others lost names we had won (no exact count) being that were never ours to win to begin with, the original and rightful owners have the names, TDNAM sent out bogus emails saying that the domains were "reclaimed" by the owners when the domains were never dropped, deleted or expired by the owners, I have recieved my money back, and I have recieved pathetic service, lip service (in print), a nice stroking, and a piss poor attempt to cover up their own internal screw up by saying it was a problem with the ".info registry".

And with assurances of the TDNAM project manager that this problem has been corrected, a random check by hounddomain shows that there are many domains still on auction that are not expired let alone for sale and, again, the domains are at other registrars.

 

[labrocca]

I just want to know when the federal government is going to step into the registrar arena and begin investigations. It's so unregulated it's not even funny. There are so many things regulated in our society (stock market, banks, food, drugs) and yet domain registrars seem to get free reign to print money at the expense of the consumer. The practice of most registrars to obtain and sell dropped names is imho anti-trust and unlawful. It's tantamount to insider-trading of stocks.

I would like to see Bob Parson's blog give this a name. Hey BOB! How about "Parsoning"?

Parsoning- the act of screwing domainers

 

[circa1850]

Parsoning- the act of screwing domainers

:bingo:

 

[Lasher]

It isn't just GD doing this btw, Enom does exactly the same thing with their club drop "pre-release" auctions. Domains they consider higher value (seems to be based on traffic/inbound links vs name quality) start with a higher minimum bid. When you win a domain there it goes into "auction lock" which their helpfiles state are a "funds escrow period". Just another registrar lying to their customers, when the names are purchased using funds that have been on account for months there is no "escrow period" needed, it is the redemption grace period masked as something else. The registration fee is added same as TDNam and the registration date is backdated to the original domain expiration date, same as TDNam.

Interesting thing is, I don't recall ever reading complaints about customers having had domains "reclaimed by owner" from club drop auctions. Maybe Enom are more careful about what they put in the auctions in the first place, or maybe there will be a bunch of "I have!" responses to this post

So there you have our #1 and #2 registrars auctioning off domains they don't legally own yet. Not to mention the hundreds of very high quality lll.us domains registered to "Enom legal" for years now and still being held. Add in hijacked whois searches (no evidence of this at Enom that I'm aware of, moreof a general problem), monetizing TM domains, ICANN's obvious bias towards Verisign and all the other BS that goes on - it's no wonder this business doesn't get any more respect from the wider internet.

We are virtual land owners in a world where the "government" and the largest corporations are as corrupt and self-serving as any real world nation. In spite of all this, I do still love this business, but sometimes I wonder why....

 

[circa1850]

I was never a big fan of eNom.

I used to be a supporter and reseller of GoDaddy/TDNAM but not anymore.

This fiasco and pathetic customer service (not just my opinion, by the way, as it appears to have happened to many) is beyond any sense of decency or respect for their customers.

I have long known that the traffic numbers posted in TDNAM's expired auctions are so grossly inflated (have seen my own that I deleted show up with such wonderful numbers had they actually been that good I would have never dropped them) but to be lied to time and time again over this matter is unacceptable.

Whether I am a large customer or small customer, I am a customer. Don't tell me how much you value me and then turn around and lie to me.

Assurances that this has been corrected but it continues is a farce.

 

[Makis.TV]

Thats the worst thing for me in this story(in my view).
They separate customers from big to small.
I dont like that...
I never do it in my lil company

 

[circa1850]

Thats the worst thing for me in this story(in my view).
They separate customers from big to small.

That's a very good point. As he mentioned, he would not have gotten involved had I not been such a good customer or a larger customer, to paraphrase his words.

On one hand, I can see the heirarchy of things. If you are the project developer or manager, I can see where you would delegate to others the day to day operations.

But it got so ridiculous it was to the point where I was telling their own staff what their policies and procedures where as I was much more in tune to their procedures having sold several hundred domains and purchased more than 300 on their site, TDNAM.

I think part of the problem was perhaps the turnover in personnel or the moving from one department to another.

This is a monster of an enterprise and a cash cow. I think they are borderline stingy with the money and services. I have yet to figure out why a company this size does not have a toll free number other than the fact that it would cost them a pretty penny.

Many of the perks that they give with their domain names are great, but they followed the lead of several other registrars rather than be innovative and a true leader in the industry.

Another curiosity is why .net is one of the highest priced domain puchases when everyone else is about $4.95 to $5.95. You have to go back a ways to find the answer to this. Bob Parsons was such an outspoken critic of ICANN awarding the governance of .com to Verisign without debate or bids accepted. He was and is so convinced that Verisign would increase the .com registration price making it out of reach that domainers and non-domainers would abandon the .com extension. He was and is convinced that there would be a flood to the .net extension. That has yet to happen and doubtful it will. Again, no innovation. Now GoDaddy and Bob Parsons has a lobbying group in DC to promote his interests. This should be very interesting.

Getting back to your original observations, a customer is a customer...it is your and my money they are taking. One dollar at a time.

 

[labrocca]

It isn't just GD doing this btw, Enom does exactly the same thing with their club drop "pre-release" auctions. Domains they consider higher value (seems to be based on traffic/inbound links vs name quality) start with a higher minimum bid. When you win a domain there it goes into "auction lock" which their helpfiles state are a "funds escrow period". Just another registrar lying to their customers, when the names are purchased using funds that have been on account for months there is no "escrow period" needed, it is the redemption grace period masked as something else. The registration fee is added same as TDNam and the registration date is backdated to the original domain expiration date, same as TDNam.

Interesting thing is, I don't recall ever reading complaints about customers having had domains "reclaimed by owner" from club drop auctions. Maybe Enom are more careful about what they put in the auctions in the first place, or maybe there will be a bunch of "I have!" responses to this post

So there you have our #1 and #2 registrars auctioning off domains they don't legally own yet. Not to mention the hundreds of very high quality lll.us domains registered to "Enom legal" for years now and still being held. Add in hijacked whois searches (no evidence of this at Enom that I'm aware of, moreof a general problem), monetizing TM domains, ICANN's obvious bias towards Verisign and all the other BS that goes on - it's no wonder this business doesn't get any more respect from the wider internet.

We are virtual land owners in a world where the "government" and the largest corporations are as corrupt and self-serving as any real world nation. In spite of all this, I do still love this business, but sometimes I wonder why....

Yeah that's why my last post was aimed more at registrars and drop companies in general. It's all rigged and I want our government to step in and look at how their business is run because imho it's not fair to the general consumer. Drops need to be regulated.

 

[ofclean]

Keep the government OUT! Let consumers vote with their wallets, unless an actual wrong-doing has been committed. In that case, we probably already have laws to cover it!

 

[col]

I recently transfered two nnn.info from Wild West Domains to Moniker. I got a confirmation from Moniker that the domains had been transfered, but they still appeared in my account at WWD. I checked the WHOIS and Moniker was right, the domains were transfered. I had to mail the WWD support 3 times until they forwarded it to someone who could remove them from my account. The only reason I mailed them was to get rid of those expiration warning e-mails. I guess my domains might have showed up at TDNAM otherwise...

 

[circa1850]

I guess my domains might have showed up at TDNAM otherwise...

Being that WildWestDomains is owned by GoDaddy and all WWD are technically GoDaddy property (if a WWD reseller fails, your domains are still safe but transferred over to WWD, aka GoDaddy). I can guarantee with 100% certainty that your names would have ended up on TDNAM's auction.

In speaking with the rightful owner of the domain names in question, that is exactly what the owner had done. We are talking about domain names that were transferred at the beginning of December 2006, transferred and renewed at Moniker, yet these domain names were being auctioned off by TDNAM as late as January 15, 2007 as GoDaddy expired names.

TDNAM blames the .info registry. Not a .info registry problem as you just pointed out. More of a slack internal "it didn't register with anyone that they were doing something wrong" problem.

What is even more troubling, not the fact that they conducted business like this for weeks, tied up thousands of dollars on my account not to mention others...but the simple fact that I was assured that the problem had been identified and fixed. Yet the other night, another member did a random check and found the same problem existed. Domain names that were not expired were being auctioned off as expired and domain names that GoDaddy had no rights and at other registrars were being listed.

No more for me, thank you.

 

[-JC-]

Being that WildWestDomains is owned by GoDaddy and all WWD are technically GoDaddy property (if a WWD reseller fails, your domains are still safe but transferred over to WWD, aka GoDaddy). I can guarantee with 100% certainty that your names would have ended up on TDNAM's auction.

In speaking with the rightful owner of the domain names in question, that is exactly what the owner had done. We are talking about domain names that were transferred at the beginning of December 2006, transferred and renewed at Moniker, yet these domain names were being auctioned off by TDNAM as late as January 15, 2007 as GoDaddy expired names.

TDNAM blames the .info registry. Not a .info registry problem as you just pointed out. More of a slack internal "it didn't register with anyone that they were doing something wrong" problem.

What is even more troubling, not the fact that they conducted business like this for weeks, tied up thousands of dollars on my account not to mention others...but the simple fact that I was assured that the problem had been identified and fixed. Yet the other night, another member did a random check and found the same problem existed. Domain names that were not expired were being auctioned off as expired and domain names that GoDaddy had no rights and at other registrars were being listed.

No more for me, thank you.

There is no excuse for any registrar to have 'ghost' names in their system! When a transfer is initiated, then their servers have to take action and initiate and confirm the transfer. At this same time the registrar can easily create an action to delete the name from the domainer's account once confirmation of a successful transfer was received.

GD nor any other registrar can make any valid excuse (.info registry issue) to negate the reason for 'ghost' names. This is because, if the .info registry was in fact down, or if GoDaddy's and the new registrar's transfer servers (or what ever servers they use) were down, then the validation for the transfer would not have been completed.

Just my two cents on this issue.

Also, I have had a similar issue with a few of my names with another registrar. Unacceptable in my honest opinion! But, is my opinion going to change the way corporations conduct businesses? I don't know ... maybe it will one day when I become a renowned domainer. :hehe:

The quote below applies for corporations too!

 

[labrocca]

Keep the government OUT! Let consumers vote with their wallets, unless an actual wrong-doing has been committed. In that case, we probably already have laws to cover it!

If I could register domains without ICANN I would agree with you. However ICANN has all the power...and has slowly but steadily transferred it to the registrars. At this point the registrars are collectively more powerful than ICANN as shown by recent contracts given out that the public absolutely was against. The consumer has no recourse here for fairness and we do not have anyone advocating for us.

As you can see from this thread...the general concensus from registrars is ...F U. They have license to print money at this point.

 

[circa1850]

There has been talk about this government regulation in the past. The biggest issue is this...which government?

The internet, domains, and registrars are international in scope and no one government should control it.

If were going to say ICANN is the regulating agency, then they need to grow some balls and take control of the registrars rather than the registrars controling them. Domainers don't need to and should not have to police these registrars for ICANN.

Start slapping some damn fines and penalties for these types of infractions and improprieties. Make available to the public the results of the hearings, complaints, penalties, fines, and filings regarding these registrars.

Is there any one agency that can review these registars from an unbiased point and not paid off like Consumer Reports? How about JD Power and associates? They rate consumer satisfaction on nearly everything now. Or they biased and have their pockets lined?

Perhaps the most accurate findings are posted right here on forums like this.

 

[-JC-]

Perhaps the most accurate findings are posted right here on forums like this.

You are correct, but who is going to enforce these 'accurate' findings unbiased? We still come back to square one.

The regulation of domain names is as sensitive as the net neutrality topic. In all honesty, no one should have absolute control over domain names, registries/registrars, and the Internet as a whole.

One could look at the world and say the same. No one entity should have absolute control over the world, however. We do need regulations set and enforced. Maybe we need a 'United Nations' for the Internet world? But then, can't the United Nations itself be corrupt?

I agree with circa1850 that ICANN needs to grow some balls!

What can we as domainers and Internet users do to resolve these issues? That is the question we should all ponder.

 

[TDNAMMAN]

Tdnam

I'm Scott Loggins, technical product manager of GoDaddy's TDNAM.com. We want to assure you that we have corrected the problem and taken the appropriate action on any affected names. The problem affected a small number of listings. We have also put processes in place to prevent this from happening again. We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused our customers and we are currently contacting them to personally explain what happened.

 

[Mike]

I'm Scott Loggins, technical product manager of GoDaddy's TDNAM.com. We want to assure you that we have corrected the problem and taken the appropriate action on any affected names. The problem affected a small number of listings. We have also put processes in place to prevent this from happening again. We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused our customers and we are currently contacting them to personally explain what happened.

If this doesn't sound like a cookie cutter - standard email than i don't know what!!!! The problem here is NOT that it applies to a SMALL amount of domains, the problem resides with the inability to do it RIGHT in the first place. While minor imperfections are to expect, lying, cheating and walking on the borderlines of laws and regulations is an entirely different ballpark.
So far, in this entire thread, i was rather on the passive side, however, when BULLS**T responses like these, from the self declared largest and most progressive registrants, are posted on a public board, then even i'm getting beyond pissed.
If you, Scott Loggins, had followed the ENTIRE thread, actually would have done your homework instead of responding with a standardized crap post, then you would have also realized that the problem had been "fixed" before, yet situations keep occurring!

I'm taking this next statement of a TV ad from one of the major banks in the USA, which, much like you are dealing with OUR funds! Their ad is about check processing, the statement: (Paraphrased) "We handle one check with perfection, then repeat the process millions of time."
If your systems are not checked, validated and in 100% working condition, TAKE THEM DOWN and fix it. Much like in ANY other industry, if something doesn't work accurately it's being recalled or the company COULD faces legal consequences which may lead to class action law suits.
Last i looked, even GoDaddy is NOT above the law, maybe, just maybe it's time that the exact same people that your company made their fortune with, sets the record straight and puts things back in the right spotlight for you.

Congrats, GoDaddy, way to go!

 

[Linkin]

Wow, what a thread. I've never used TDNAM before, but this makes me never what to buy from them, no matter what canned responses are posted here.

This is a monster of an enterprise and a cash cow. I think they are borderline stingy with the money and services. I have yet to figure out why a company this size does not have a toll free number other than the fact that it would cost them a pretty penny.

This has always bothered me about GD too.

To GoDaddy: Quit being so cheap!!!

 

[dotnom]

Do you really think GoDaddy makes money from domain registrations to support his expenses , the ads, his employees and all the other promotions he uses to stay in top ?

There are additional resources to feed this company
You can say it parking, you can say it webhosting, extra services, domain tasting (accused in the past) or whatever else you think to get his dollars back from the tremendous money flow he puts at the promo market

He succeed to put his brand to the top of service awareness of domain names

The slightest appreciation i had for GoDaddy until now this post together with others that were talking about domain suspensions without explanations makes me not even visit their homepage. It's a horrifying atmosphere at GoDaddy

You know this big industry can't be sustained with the same business model for decades

They make 0,30-$2 per name x 14,563,760 registered names = $16,748,324 with average profit
Is this the profit of the biggest domain registrar. No

I wonder what GoDaddy will do next to stay top, pay his many super bowl ads, put the chick with 3 boobies from "Total Recall" movie, i don't know, i don't care

If he contributes and makes something good at the domain industry i have the courage to clap. So far i don't see anything

The Microsoft of Domains is here. Time will tell. Let's keep ourselves healthy to live and see GoDaddy's "achievements"

 

[Ronald Regging]

Like I said in another post, generally speaking, for the volume that GoDaddy handles, they do a fairly decent job overall. This is not to say they are perfect. They don't even have real time whois for whatever stupid reason, I've had some slight delays and miscommunicatons by CSRs involving refund requests and occassionally they have a nasty habit of reverting nameservers on your domain without reason. They do a good job of holding it all together, but obviously they aren't the domainers choice. Out of the millions of customers they have, probably the only people who notice these problems, are knowledgable about them and have issues with them are domainers. But they don't really market to domainers, so that should be your first clue that their services, while good, are probably not upto par for a knowledgable domainer.

Why they ever made TDNAM is beyond me. It's obviously just a ploy to profit from their expired domains, but it is in no way setup, run, or adequately equipped for a serious domain aftermarket.

TDNAM is to domain aftermarkets as RegFly is to...
A. Baboons
B. Accredited Registrars
C. Incompetent
D. All of the Above

I think I remember that question from the SATs.