.mobi What happened on Sedo?

[MDA]

10 minutes before the auction was over, control panel and auctions screen stopped displaying. i've tried 3 different internet connections so it must have been from sedo..

i wasn't able to bid.

did anybody else encounter this kind of problems?

 

[allnicksgone]

Here is another thread with good details as they happened. It's long, but the last few pages will give you a good idea.

http://www.namepros.com/dot-mobi/400846-mtld-says-sedo-auction-third-final.html

(start with page 3)

 

[TheBaldOne]

allnicksgone, just quickly scanned the last few pages (from page 3 as suggested). Sedo did not stop the auction when the problem occured. They did not contact by telephone the winning bidders, in fact it was approx. 50 minutes after the auction (and after notifications and invoices had been sent out) that they first notified via their website that there was a problem and they would re-run the auction!

Sedo are dead and buried here.

Knowing what happens when companies get into this kind of trouble I am not even going to list my domains for sale on Sedo now let alone have them handle Escrow! A fool I may be but I am not a total idiot. The money from the sale of my names I want in my bank account and not tied up for years ending up in someone elses account because Sedo went bankrupt.

 

[allnicksgone]

allnicksgone, just quickly scanned the last few pages (from page 3 as suggested). Sedo did not stop the auction when the problem occured. They did not contact by telephone the winning bidders, in fact it was approx. 50 minutes after the auction (and after notifications and invoices had been sent out) that they first notified via their website that there was a problem and they would re-run the auction!

Sedo are dead and buried here.

Knowing what happens when companies get into this kind of trouble I am not even going to list my domains for sale on Sedo now let alone have them handle Escrow! A fool I may be but I am not a total idiot. The money from the sale of my names I want in my bank account and not tied up for years ending up in someone elses account because Sedo went bankrupt.

Yup, Sedo screwed up and I would not blame you for wanting to take your business somewhere else.

This is a big black eye for Sedo, but I think they will recover, eventually.

 

[accent]

The big issue IMHO is breach of contract with the first notified winners. Those are the ones that can claim damages beyond the cost of the domains.

The second winners simply lost their time and effort bidding on an invalid auction. If Sedo awards the domains to the first winners then they owe, perhaps, to Mtld for the difference. But that is an order of magnititude less than what this can cost them, and both Sedo and MTLD's reputations are not badly damaged.

But blind to the realities (and perhaps poorly advised by attorneys who want the work regardless of the advantage to their clients) Sedo is hunched over the additional money yelling "Mine, Mine! It's all mine!"

Kidding with that last, I hope.

 

[briman1970]

The big issue IMHO is breach of contract with the first notified winners. Those are the ones that can claim damages beyond the cost of the domains.

The second winners simply lost their time and effort bidding on an invalid auction. If Sedo awards the domains to the first winners then they owe, perhaps, to Mtld for the difference. But that is an order of magnititude less than what this can cost them, and both Sedo and MTLD's reputations are not badly damaged.

The other big issue is whether Sedo was negligent or not. Although I don't know if they can legally be held liable for that.

But blind to the realities (and perhaps poorly advised by attorneys who want the work regardless of the advantage to their clients) Sedo is hunched over the additional money yelling "Mine, Mine! It's all mine!"

Kidding with that last, I hope.

Yep... sounds like Sedo (and MTLD).

 

[accent]

The other big issue is whether Sedo was negligent or not. Although I don't know if they can legally be held liable for that.

If you cause loss to another by negligence then you are liable. The self-evident fact that Sedo did not have sufficent back-up servers is enough for that IMHO.

Then there is the question of damages - either to the original winners or to Mtld, depending on who gets the names (I do not see much damages to the second winners, if the first contracts are honored). The original winners could claim lost income from the domains that were their's by right, or "specific performance" - enforce the original contract by giving them the names, even if the second bidders have paid for them.

Seeing that on the horizion, I suspect that the second round high bidders will be very reluctant to pay for the domains, which may force Sedo to deal with the situation.

 

[Keith]

If you cause loss to another by negligence then you are liable. The self-evident fact that Sedo did not have sufficent back-up servers is enough for that IMHO.

Then there is the question of damages - either to the original winners or to Mtld, depending on who gets the names (I do not see much damages to the second winners, if the first contracts are honored). The original winners could claim lost income from the domains that were their's by right, or "specific performance" - enforce the original contract by giving them the names, even if the second bidders have paid for them.

Seeing that on the horizion, I suspect that the second round high bidders will be very reluctant to pay for the domains, which may force Sedo to deal with the situation.

I would pay ASAP if I won anything at the re-start. The second round winners have every right to pay and take possession of their names. They won fair and square according to the auction house who did their best to accomidate everyone. This includes first round bidders as well as the people who were locked out of bidding. Sedo was doing the best they could under extreme circumstances. In no way could they forcast what happened. The first 2 auctions they held for mtld were exactly the same as the third and there were no problems.

 

[RWAC]

Just replied on this topic on another thread.

So, it looks like Sedo's servers crashed from the influx of traffic.

I see.

Sticky situation. However, I will still stick to my guns and say that Sedo should allow the transactions to be followed through on, with those buyers that they notified as being the winners.

What might happen now if an individual believing that they had won the auction, very quickly offered it up to another company elsewhere, only then to find out later that Sedo was withdrawing the contract to sell it to them at the agreed price? Then you might have the situation of this company then threatening to sue another individual, who through no fault of their own could no longer offer the domain to them.

This situation is preposterous. The fact remains at the end of the day that Sedo should maintain their servers to run at absolute optimum performance to absolutely ensure in the first place that this sort of situation never happens at all. No excuse for it.

Too, the reason why the original winners should keep the names is because there's was a contract that had already been made and cast in stone, whereas bids not aligned to come into the system yet, at this point, are still not binding, since they never happened in real time, even if this was due to a server crash.

Whichever way one looks at it, all three parties, that is the sellers, the buyers notified of their wins and the buyers that didn't get a chance to get their bids in, should all be equally furious with Sedo for allowing such a major cock up to happen in the first place. For any company in this situation to just turn around, shrug their shoulders figuratively speaking to say, 'Oops, we're sorry, we'll do our best to make sure this doesn't happen again', frankly is utterly absurd. Making out that they are the victims in this debacle is equally ridiculous. They should own up and fully compensate everyone for the duress caused and loss of profits to everyone concerned. Of course, like any other company they'll somehow squirm their way out of this mess to make sure that the damage caused is as minimal as can be, no doubt, many of their customers meanwhile will lose out in the mean time.

Doesn't exactly do very much for their credibility.

I for one will be thinking seriously after all of this taking all of my business elsewhere.

 

[briman1970]

I for one will be thinking seriously after all of this taking all of my business elsewhere.

I have the vast majority of my domains parked with Sedo. I've been with them for over two years and sold dozens of domains, but I am seriously considering leaving now as well. This whole situation is ridiculous.

 

[Mobi Cheap]

Day 7

They're not helping the links on Dukes News pages. The Yahoo Canada news link below. It's getting complicated to follow all of the threads on this subject. Anyone care to summarize?

The story continues.

10.23AM EST

Binaryman is the first to spot and posts a thread at NP and elsewhere entitled
/K I L L K I L L K I L L -- dotMobi/...(from DN JOURNAL)

K I L L K I L L K I L L of course usually means 'kill the story', as in 'hold/withdraw the press release': in this case one announcing $2.3 of sales (allegedly) at the third round of the Sedo .mobi auction.

The bidders preparing to sue Sedo are energized and claim first blood.

Accentnepal makes a few interesting observations in addition to describing the withdrawal of the press release as a sign of confusion, among which:

....It seems that if they were taking this seriously over there then there would be a LOT of internal conversations about it. Instead, some guys did not even know.
...

What will happen next?

Predictions on a postcard (or posted below) are always welcome.

 

[Keith]

Now I am going out a limb here...does anyone think that an outside source may have sabotaged the auction? Is it possible that a hacker did some dirty work here? You all know that anything is possible...right

 

[Rochemontagne]

That could be a possibility but, because of the way Sedo handled the situation, that still doesn't let Sedo off the hook.

 

[TheBaldOne]

keithmt, even if a 'third party' attacked Sedo's computers that would not negate Sedo's actions. From what little information has been made available by Sedo nothing at all indicates the presence of a 'third party' though.

If Sedo and mTLD tried to use this as some kind of defence I am sure all their computer logs would be gone through with a fine toothed comb by technical experts hired in by the plaintiffs lawyers. But then why did they send out 'invitations' after the first auction had finished to potential new bidders to come and join the second auction?

As stated previously: hung, drawn, quartered - but amazingly by their own hands and mouths!

 

[pcaero]

I concur with the bald one...

pc

 

[Keith]

This thing is a disaster! I can't wait to see how this unfolds. Good points have been made on both sides but the LAW will prevale :imho:

 

[DomainTalker]

But then why did they send out 'invitations' after the first auction had finished to potential new bidders to come and join the second auction?

Do you - or anyone - have a copy of this/these invitations, please....?

If so, please PM me asap...

Thanks

.

 

[Mobi Cheap]

There is now an official Sedo thread under Parking & Monetization (which Sedo confirmed can be used for discussing auction issues as well):

http://www.namepros.com/parking-and-traffic-monetization/408817-sedo-com-official-thread.html

This is just one snippet of the .mobi auction discussion there (as first spotted by allnicksgone in another thread):

...
...Sedo has decided to offer up any additional profits from the new commission from the auctions to charity. I don't know all the details, as it hasn't been officially announced. The point is that Sedo isn't getting anything other than what we would have the very first time around, in an effort to remain neutral. I would hope that at the very least, others in the domain industry can respect that we're trying to make the best of a very sticky situation by using the results of this decision for a good purpose.
...

 

[Mobi Cheap]

Day 17

OK, the question in the original post was: "what happened on sedo?"

Today we have a much more detailed response from mTLD (shown here with my emphasis):
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Open Letter to the dotMobi Community from Trey Harvin, dotMobi CEO

Dear Members of the dotMobi Community:

We have been following the discussions surrounding the dotMobi online auction, hosted by Sedo, that was scheduled to end on 5 December 2007. We think that there are several key misperceptions in the community, and I would like to clear them up so that we can continue having constructive dialogue and move forward.

We have noticed that some people seem to believe that the auction participants who received notifications and invoices before the extension of the auction were the highest bidders at the close of the original auction period.

Sedo, however, tells us that:

a) this is clearly not true in some cases,

b) this is unlikely to be true for the names generating the most activity, and

c) this is possibly not true for any of the auctions.

To those points, Sedo has told us the following:

* As the scheduled auction end approached, bidding activity increased dramatically, creating significantly higher-than-expected traffic.

* Although the web interface slowed down for some participants, the auction interface and bid page remained available for many or all users, and the web servers continued to log incoming bids.

* Once the bid processing server stopped functioning properly, however, many of those bids -- both standard and proxy -- did not get posted to the bid history page.

* As a result of the server crash, another system automatically generated email notices at 5 p.m. GMT to the highest bidder listed on the bid history page, despite Sedo’s attempts to stop that process.

* Because the bid history page did not reflect all of the valid bids, notices were sent to some participants who were not, in fact, the highest bidders.

Under the circumstances, even if there were no disagreement about the point at which the auction should have ended, we can’t be confident of identifying the highest bidder at that point with any reliability. To avoid prolonged disputes about rights to the domain names in the auction, we decided that the fairest course of action was to void the auction results altogether.
...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The letter continues with details about future plans, but the part above - for what it's worth - appears to be a necessary part of this thread insofar as it reduces the need for speculation - at least for some of us.

Happy Holidays!

 

[Mobi Cheap]

In light of the latest allegedly technical and other issues resulting in the cancellation and re-running of a high-profile non-mobi Sedo auction, TheBaldOne and I (yes we do agree on some issues) have asked for a detailed public explanation by Sedo via their official NP thread - and I suggested it needs to be in at least as much detail as the mTLD letter quoted in the post above.

What do you think?

Happy Holidays!

 

[TheBaldOne]

Some think that Mobi Cheap and others on one side and I and others on the other side of this debate are just arguing on the forums for the sake of it, we are not. We both want the present situation resolved as soon as possible in as fair a way as possible, and for .mobi and domaining in general not to be harmed by these events. Where the two sides differ is simply our interpretation of the law, and that is all. Further I would say that such a debate is healthy for our industry as a whole.

Please do post your comments here and on the Sedo.com - official thread, let us make sure that our questions/concerns are noted and taken seriously so that they may be addressed by senior Sedo management accordingly.

Now as Christmas approaches here in the UK may I wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy and Prosperous New Year.

 

[Mobi Cheap]

Some think that Mobi Cheap and others on one side and I and others on the other side of this debate are just arguing on the forums for the sake of it, we are not. We both want the present situation resolved as soon as possible in as fair a way as possible, and for .mobi and domaining in general not to be harmed by these events. Where the two sides differ is simply our interpretation of the law, and that is all. Further I would say that such a debate is healthy for our industry as a whole.

Please do post your comments here and on the Sedo.com - official thread, let us make sure that our questions/concerns are noted and taken seriously so that they may be addressed by senior Sedo management accordingly.

Now as Christmas approaches here in the UK may I wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy and Prosperous New Year.

Agreed!

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone!

 

[accent]

Bump this up -

It now appears that Tequila.mobi was paid for and transfered to the winner of the domain in the second round. The owner built a website on it and it was live for 10 days and then mTLD took it back, without due process, defeating godaddy deadbolt locking. (and all of this happened without any of the usually sharp-eyed Namepros members spotting it!)

Stay tuned.......