WARNING: Sav.com - Unfriendly Business Practices - Automatic Billing of $4316

[hn1]

Hello everyone,

Let me just shortly write about my recent sav.com experience and an example of their unfriendly business practices. I have been using sav.com for about one year due to their low pricing on backorders. There were flags in regards to them but have continued to use them exclusively due to their pricing on backorders, and have spent approximately $40,000 in the last 12 months.

Sav.com essentially requires that you have an active payment method with them. There were apparently some domain names in my account that were set on auto-renew. These domains were set on auto-renew by default and on February 28 these domain names were auto-renewed by Sav.com for a total amount of $4,316.00. (the domain names were registered on March 29)

After noticing this (within 48 hours or so), I have opened a ticket requesting the cancellation of these auto-renewals and a refund for this automatic billing. Here is basically the correspondence in regards to this (names/nicknames have been redacted).



I wasn't necessarily happy with the idea of them not issuing a full refund and keeping $150, but since I had other work-related responsibilities + had work-related travel, I said fine, I'll let them keep $150. After these messages, a week has passed with no reply or refund and I have decided to follow-up with them and the next message that I have received was the most repulsive message I have ever received from any business customer service.


If in the question wouldn't be around $4000, this would be a pretty amusing message. It sounds like a joke (actually, even though as of this moment I am in the red more than $4000, it is still a pretty amusing answer). I have contacted sav.com via another line of communication to ensure that before trying other avenues in pursuit of this refund that this wasn't a mistake, but according to another line of communication, no, this wasn't a mistake, this is their business practice.

Out of $4316, they have refunded me $20.

Given the amount, I will check if there are ways to receive a full refund. If it turns of that there aren't, this means that they can essentially bill you any amount, it could be $20,000 or $50,000 or any other amount that you have available with the linked payment method - and there is basically not much that you can do about it. They basically require you to have an active payment method, they can increase renewal prices at any time, they can rewrite their policy every 5 seconds, and if I am not mistaken? in the past there were glitches where bulk turn-off of auto-renewal didn't work (and there is no way for me to check if I have turned-off auto-renew for these domain names in the past, but due to bug it hasn't been processed).

Given their unfriendly business practices, I do not trust this registrar and would suggest to everyone that if they decide to use them, to use them with caution since this is not the first incident of their unfriendly business practices. Since I have thousands of domain names with them, unfortunately, I can't stop using them tomorrow, but I will definitely reduce any use of this registrar to a minimum and hopefully once domain names that I plan to drop expire, to a zero.

This has been the worst experience that I personally had with any registrar.

 

[HandmadeLife]

This is exactly what happened to me about two months ago and I decided not to deal with them again

 

[bmugford]

They offer a $20 refund on an autorenewal order of $4,316? How generous.

The offer is actually more of a slap in the face that offering nothing.

I am not a fan of these registrars auto-billing so far ahead of time. They can justify it any way they want, but in reality it just leads to more unwanted autorenewals than saved domains from billing issues.

Brad

 

[alcy]

that's what auto renew does..everywhere

it's our responsibility to turn it off or be aware of current prices..which btw sav has some best around..

and no. sav or others don't change prices every 5secs.

 

[BRANDERX]

in the past there were glitches where bulk turn-off of auto-renewal didn't work (and there is no way for me to check if I have turned-off auto-renew for these domain names in the past, but due to bug it hasn't been processed).

Sorry this happened to you.

Was it this batch you attempted to turn off auto-renew for? If you have thousands with them, didn't you know they process renewals 30 days prior to expiration?

 

[hn1]

that's what auto renew does..everywhere

it's our responsibility to turn it off or be aware of current prices..which btw sav has some best around..

and no. sav or others don't change prices every 5secs.

I have not claimed that sav has changed prices every 5 seconds, here is what I have said:

...this means that they can essentially bill you any amount, it could be $20,000 or $50,000 or any other amount that you have available with the linked payment method - and there is basically not much that you can do about it. They basically require you to have an active payment method, they can increase renewal prices at any time, they can rewrite their policy every 5 seconds...

If you think that this situation is a good business practice on their part, you are free to hold that opinion, but in my view, this is not a good business practice in general and especially not a good business practice for this industry.

Given their business practices, I do not have a lot of confidence in this business and will reduce my use of them to zero. I have written this post simply to inform others of their business practices and everyone is free to form their own opinion based on this and other sav situations if they have good business practices or not.

Was it this batch you attempted to turn off auto-renew for? If you have thousands with them, didn't you know they process renewals 30 days prior to expiration?

Since I do not have any direct evidence for it or show it with a high level of confidence, I don't want this claim to be part of my main point, but I think that the answer to your first question is yes. If I am not mistaken, they had some issues with a bulk tool in the past in regards to nameservers and I am aware at least of some accounts where they had issues with the bulk auto-renew tool as well. I think that it is entirely possible that some time ago I have clicked bulk auto-renew off for all domain names in the account, but since there had been some issues with bulk tools and there are thousands of domain names in my account, it hasn't been processed properly.

Since I am not sure of that 99.9% and I do not have any direct evidence for this claim (there is no way for me to check if this is what has happened) I don't want this claim to be a part of my main point - and I don't think that it is.

I don't have enormous problems with new companies having glitches or some issues. It can be annoying, but I can fully understand. What in this case bothers me is not whether or not nameservers were updated properly (which sometimes they weren't) but their official business practice. My criticism of them is not in regards to some potential glitches but rather in regards to their official unfriendly business practices.

In regards to your second question, the answer is no. The domain names that I have with them are lower quality domains and this is the first time that some of my domain names have been auto-renewed at sav. I didn't even anticipate that this entire situation would occur. I have had refunds and auto-renewals with other registrars and never had any significant problems (including the registrars where I have only spent $100 or $500)... This particular situation with sav has been the most unpleasant experience I ever had in relation to any registrar.

 

[Nick R]

Hello @hn1 - Let me start by apologizing for the bad experience you had with Sav; that is never our intention.

We do try to make our refund policy very clear before domains are purchased by requiring users to check a box acknowledging it each and every time they purchase domains.

We also note this on the cart page right beneath the Complete Purchase button:

"By clicking the Complete Purchase button, you agree to enroll your product(s) in our automatic renewal service, which can be cancelled at any time via your Account. Automatic renewals are billed to the active payment method on your account, until canceled."

It seems like we have more work to go to make this policy even more transparent so we will take a look at improvements we can make in the future.

 

[hn1]

Hello @hn1 - Let me start by apologizing for the bad experience you had with Sav; that is never our intention.

We do try to make our refund policy very clear before domains are purchased by requiring users to check a box acknowledging it each and every time they purchase domains.

Show attachment 211926

We also note this on the cart page right beneath the Complete Purchase button:

"By clicking the Complete Purchase button, you agree to enroll your product(s) in our automatic renewal service, which can be cancelled at any time via your Account. Automatic renewals are billed to the active payment method on your account, until canceled."

It seems like we have more work to go to make this policy even more transparent so we will take a look at improvements we can make in the future.

Let me first make a side point and then I'll go to my main point. More than 95% of domain names (or something of that sort) that I have with Sav are essentially the result of backorders. I do not agree with your view, but even if one would concede your view, a customer can backorder an unlimited number of domains without having to 'check a box'. Would a full refund be offered if these domain names would be a result of backorders?



And purely out of curiosity, do you perhaps know a date when a 'Refund and Cancellation policy' has been added to the area in your picture? Was this there from the beginning or is that part that has been added later, and if later, when?

Now to my main point. This isn't about whether there is some website bug or whether there are parts of the website that are added later or whether the policy page is changed/updated. This is whether a business has 'friendly or unfriendly practices'.

Out of 20 registrars that I have used, I have never read ToS at any of them, and neither have most people. No one almost ever reads ToS anywhere and you can add into ToS whatever you want (as long as it is legal + in accordance with regulations).

Assuming that the following scenario does not violate some laws/regulations (which it probably does), you could in principle write in ToS that the auto-renewal will occur 300 days prior to expiration, the domain name will be auto-renewed for 10 years, and in order to cancel auto-renewal, a customer must fly to Antarctica to sign the cancellation in person. I am of course not suggesting that Sav has these policies or something close to these policies - it does not, but I think that pretty much everyone would agree that the business with these policies would be exhibiting unfriendly practices (even though they have mentioned all of these requirements in their ToS).

I would argue that this and other similar situations also exhibit bad business practices on the part of Sav.com. This amount could have been much higher, as I have mentioned, what if this was $20,000 or $50,000 - do you think that not offering refunds in these types of situations is a friendly business practice?

People can form their own opinion based on this and other Sav situations if Sav with its current policies exhibits good business practices. I have written about my situation, I don't think any factual claims are being disputed so the only thing that remains is to decide if these actions exhibit friendly/good business practices or not.

And in my view, no, these are not good business practices, quite the opposite. This entire situation is an example of a very bad business practice on the part of Sav.com.

 

[alcy]

I have not claimed that sav has changed prices every 5 seconds, here is what I have said:


If you think that this situation is a good business practice on their part, you are free to hold that opinion, but in my view, this is not a good business practice in general and especially not a good business practice for this industry.

Given their business practices, I do not have a lot of confidence in this business and will reduce my use of them to zero. I have written this post simply to inform others of their business practices and everyone is free to form their own opinion based on this and other sav situations if they have good business practices or not.



Since I do not have any direct evidence for it or show it with a high level of confidence, I don't want this claim to be part of my main point, but I think that the answer to your first question is yes. If I am not mistaken, they had some issues with a bulk tool in the past in regards to nameservers and I am aware at least of some accounts where they had issues with the bulk auto-renew tool as well. I think that it is entirely possible that some time ago I have clicked bulk auto-renew off for all domain names in the account, but since there had been some issues with bulk tools and there are thousands of domain names in my account, it hasn't been processed properly.

Since I am not sure of that 99.9% and I do not have any direct evidence for this claim (there is no way for me to check if this is what has happened) I don't want this claim to be a part of my main point - and I don't think that it is.

I don't have enormous problems with new companies having glitches or some issues. It can be annoying, but I can fully understand. What in this case bothers me is not whether or not nameservers were updated properly (which sometimes they weren't) but their official business practice. My criticism of them is not in regards to some potential glitches but rather in regards to their official unfriendly business practices.

In regards to your second question, the answer is no. The domain names that I have with them are lower quality domains and this is the first time that some of my domain names have been auto-renewed at sav. I didn't even anticipate that this entire situation would occur. I have had refunds and auto-renewals with other registrars and never had any significant problems (including the registrars where I have only spent $100 or $500)... This particular situation with sav has been the most unpleasant experience I ever had in relation to any registrar.

same applies. no registrar changes their prices..or policies...every 5 seconds... I know it feel bad to spend 4k when I guess yer intent was to drop.em... but if we don't.turn off renewals then its all on us

 

[ecomslice]

What was your payment method ? There are measures you can take

 

[omelet]

Hello @hn1 - Let me start by apologizing for the bad experience you had with Sav; that is never our intention.

We do try to make our refund policy very clear before domains are purchased by requiring users to check a box acknowledging it each and every time they purchase domains.

Show attachment 211926

We also note this on the cart page right beneath the Complete Purchase button:

"By clicking the Complete Purchase button, you agree to enroll your product(s) in our automatic renewal service, which can be cancelled at any time via your Account. Automatic renewals are billed to the active payment method on your account, until canceled."

It seems like we have more work to go to make this policy even more transparent so we will take a look at improvements we can make in the future.

Hey I deal with many other registrars also, if I told them it was not my intention to renew the domain and auto-renewal was setup mistakenly, they normally issued me refund.

Why cannot this be happen at SAV?

Your such business practice will cause you much more loss in a long term. After reading this post, I have decided to move my domains away from you.

If you cannot build a good relationship with domainer community, you will gain nothing. Making money from this practice is shameful.

 

[omelet]

@hn1

- You should report this to ICANN
- You should report to any governmental consumer protection agency, disclose such bad practice, and legal spport; or
- You should talk to lawyer (Fiverr has many cheaper options), and file civil lawsuit
- You should post your feedback to any reviewer / rating website
- You should report this story to media (fiverr has many media release expert can help on these)


@Nick R

You should:

- refund @hn1 promptly, do right things. God is watching you
- change your policy, issue full refund if people change their mind within 30 days

You can make more money and gain more trust from doing such good things.

Or, you will be kicked out of this industry. Shame.

 

[omelet]

Hello @hn1 - Let me start by apologizing for the bad experience you had with Sav; that is never our intention.

We do try to make our refund policy very clear before domains are purchased by requiring users to check a box acknowledging it each and every time they purchase domains.

Show attachment 211926

We also note this on the cart page right beneath the Complete Purchase button:

"By clicking the Complete Purchase button, you agree to enroll your product(s) in our automatic renewal service, which can be cancelled at any time via your Account. Automatic renewals are billed to the active payment method on your account, until canceled."

It seems like we have more work to go to make this policy even more transparent so we will take a look at improvements we can make in the future.

Why you kill people confidences, you lose all.

Shame.

 

[HandmadeLife]

@hn1

- You should report this to ICANN
- You should report to any governmental consumer protection agency, disclose such bad practice, and legal spport; or
- You should talk to lawyer (Fiverr has many cheaper options), and file civil lawsuit
- You should post your feedback to any reviewer / rating website
- You should report this story to media (fiverr has many media release expert can help on these)


@Nick R

You should:

- refund @hn1 promptly, do right things. God is watching you
- change your policy, issue full refund if people change their mind within 30 days

You can make more money and gain more trust from doing such good things.

Or, you will be kicked out of this industry. Shame.

👍
This is in addition to their always late and bad responses

 

[omelet]

@hn1
Go to find who is CEO of SAV

We can stop a war if we can persuade Putin after success negotiation, why CANNOT SAV CEO be changed? I don't think that's impossible.

Don't talk to the little guys working at bottom, talk to the big guys.

 

[iTesla]

Many domainers don't read TOS of registrars but they should, then they later end up in such situations!
Of course an exception can be made, that is a huge amount of money, I wonder what kind of domains they are to require such expensive renewal.
P.s. I think there should be 15 days Autorenewal before expiry not 30 days, other thing when you get email 'your domain is about to expire in a month' the autorenewal is done next day, you even not have time to think if you need that domain, this message should come 5 or 7 days before autorenewal.
IMO

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

😎

 

[augmented]

@hn1

- You should report this to ICANN
- You should report to any governmental consumer protection agency, disclose such bad practice, and legal spport; or
- You should talk to lawyer (Fiverr has many cheaper options), and file civil lawsuit
- You should post your feedback to any reviewer / rating website
- You should report this story to media (fiverr has many media release expert can help on these)


@Nick R

You should:

- refund @hn1 promptly, do right things. God is watching you
- change your policy, issue full refund if people change their mind within 30 days

You can make more money and gain more trust from doing such good things.

Or, you will be kicked out of this industry. Shame.

"god is watching you"

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

 

[Haroon Basha]

I am also a SAV victim of same situation. Happened to me several times. Most recently last week, they renewed an .io name which was a account transfer from another SAV account. They renewed it same day, even though still one month time was remaining to the expiry. They did not send me any advance notice of auto renewal. When I contacted to cancel the renewal, they refused, finally they agree to refund only $ 20 instead of full refund. I just refused their offer and let the domain stay there for one more year. I told them, I will transfer out all my domain names as and when they approach expiry date. They make illegitimate money with their hidden policies. The first thing I did was turning off Auto Renewal for all the names that I have. Epik, Dynadot, NameCheap, Godaddy, NetworkSolutions, NameSilo, NameBright etc send SEVERAL REMINDERS about renewals, even for Auto Renewals.

 

[omelet]

Guys what about let’s file legal lawsuit against sav and request for heavy punishment for their illegitimate and hidden policy.

Good approach to make things changed?

 

[jamesau]

Very sneaky practice when combined with premium renewals.

Was the payment made via credit card? I would consider filing a chargeback in this situation as it is misleading business practice to be renewing so long before they are due.

 

[Nick R]

Hello Everyone,

Our reminders are currently sent out the day before they renew. We are constantly working on our system to improve our user experience and satisfaction. We know there is a better way to do this and are actively working on an updated refund policy where users can delete their renewed domains and receive a full refund up to 5 days after renewal. You can expect these changes in the next couple months.

As for your $20 refund, once the domain is renewed from the registry, they don’t issue us a refund. Meaning your funds are no longer available for us to return to you. We understand that this can be an inconvenience so we typically offer a $20 courtesy return out of our own pocket. This $20 typically covers base renewal fees since most domain purchases are under $15.

Once again we’re sorry for the inconvenience, and if you have any other suggestions to improve user experience please let me know.

 

[ecomslice]

So sending a one day notice but your support taking few days or more to respond to anything has logic ?

 

[omelet]

But why dynadot, epik, namesilo, godaddy can refund?

Only you cannot refund?

Hello Everyone,

Our reminders are currently sent out the day before they renew. We are constantly working on our system to improve our user experience and satisfaction. We know there is a better way to do this and are actively working on an updated refund policy where users can delete their renewed domains and receive a full refund up to 5 days after renewal. You can expect these changes in the next couple months.

As for your $20 refund, once the domain is renewed from the registry, they don’t issue us a refund. Meaning your funds are no longer available for us to return to you. We understand that this can be an inconvenience so we typically offer a $20 courtesy return out of our own pocket. This $20 typically covers base renewal fees since most domain purchases are under $15.

Once again we’re sorry for the inconvenience, and if you have any other suggestions to improve user experience please let me know.

 

[omelet]

Hello Everyone,

Our reminders are currently sent out the day before they renew. We are constantly working on our system to improve our user experience and satisfaction. We know there is a better way to do this and are actively working on an updated refund policy where users can delete their renewed domains and receive a full refund up to 5 days after renewal. You can expect these changes in the next couple months.

As for your $20 refund, once the domain is renewed from the registry, they don’t issue us a refund. Meaning your funds are no longer available for us to return to you. We understand that this can be an inconvenience so we typically offer a $20 courtesy return out of our own pocket. This $20 typically covers base renewal fees since most domain purchases are under $15.

Once again we’re sorry for the inconvenience, and if you have any other suggestions to improve user experience please let me know.

The best way is to contact the registry, on behalf of the @hn1, explained that you (SAV) mistakenly charged customer renewal fee, and request for refund and cancellation of the renewal.

You charged the $$$$, and therefore you should take the responsibility, for @hn1, and also for us, the domainer community. It;s your chance for you to turn your negative image into positive.

Your CEO should do this and say sorry personally. That will make things different.