Trying a transfer and being ripped off by former registrar

[silverider]

Hello I am a newbie when it comes to domains, I had a handful of domains at Yahoo but cancelled most of them when they tripled the fee, of the remaining domains I wanted to transfer two to a cheaper registrar.
First what I found out was that I wasn't registered witth Yahoo but with Melbourne IT which operates out of you guessed it Australia. So I contacted them after my new registrar told me that I needed what they call an authorization code to "unlock" my domain, so I the owner could do what I wanted with my domain i.e. transfer it.

I called Melbourne IT and they gave me that code, after trying to sell me another year for parking the domain while I try to sell it. At that time, teh domain had expired if I am not mistaken but just by a couple of days and Melbourne IT didn't mention the fact that I might have any problem doing the transfer.

I tried the transfer within 24 hours of my call to Melbourne. I was later notified that the transfer had failed. I forgot about it and hated the idea of having to call both registrars about this. Big mistake. Two weeks later I called Melbourne IT and they said the domain is in redemption and I can't transfer it anymore. They say they can recover it for $300!

I said no way. I believe I did the transfer procedure properly, they were supposed to unlock the domain (which I had been told the authorization code was for ), but my new registrar says it was locked (client transfer prohibited, client delete prohibited) so the transfer was cancelled. Now I am losing my domain unless I pay them that fee, this is extortion, pure and simple. Anyone has had to deal with such problem ?

What I think happened is that it was never unlocked, there was no reason the transfer would fail. Neither registrar told me there would be any problem , I got an "authorization code" to "unlock " the domain. I gave that to the new registrar. It's my understanding the domain was not in redemption period at the time I tried the transfer. I tried to find out at the new registrar whether they got all the info they needed (right code etc.) however they can't tell me that , just that it failed because it had "client transfer prohibited " status .
I then assume that I did everything right, but that the domain was not unlocked.

Now because of this I am trapped, either I lose my domain or I have to pay the fee to the old registrar. It really looks to me like a ripoff. Looks like domain was never "unlocked", I was leaving them and they clearly had an incentive to do that and charge me afterwards.

What can I do ? I am skeptical about the recovery service offered by the new registrar, which claims to be monitoring my domain to repurchase it.
My guess is that plenty of other people do that with bots and what not and that I won't ever get that domain back, unless I pay the extortion fee from MelbournE IT. If I am right about what is going on, I am sure I am not the only victim of such practices and they deserve to be sued to hell.

 

[Sameh]

I believe Melbourne IT expired domains go to SnapNames. You can backorder it there.

It will cost you $59 (includes 1 year renewal) to acquire this domain if there is no other bids/bidders.

 

[Kate]

Since the domain is in redemption, the procedure to recover the domain is "manual" and more expensive.
Registrars usually charge between $80 and $200. $300 is above average.

Most registrars will prevent a transfer away if the domain has already expired, even by just a few days.

You can still wait for the domain to drop and place a backorder with snapnames for example, and pray that nobody will want to bid on it. In the end it could cost you more than $300 if the name ends up in a private auction.
Even if you think the name has nothing special it could still have traffic/backlinks.
Consider your options and how much you value the name.

Lesson of the day: avoid lousy registrars.

 

[silverider]

Most registrars will prevent a transfer away if the domain has already expired, even by just a few days.

I don't understand , this is MY domain name and it appears Melbourne IT either made a mistake or willingly blocked the transfer, either way they are responsible for my problem. And they should solve it . No way I am paying them $155 to get my domain back. This domain should be at my new registrar, done , over with ! Instead of that , I have to spend time on this matter and then on top of that pay them a fee !?

Surely others have had to deal with similar problems and there has to be a way out of this mess at no cost.
Am I right to think the chances I will get that domain back are slim, I assume bots monitor expirations and people shop for names and order services that attempt to buy a domain as soon as it becomes available ( I got plenty of offers like that).

 

[Kate]

I called Melbourne IT and they gave me that code, after trying to sell me another year for parking the domain while I try to sell it. At that time, teh domain had expired if I am not mistaken but just by a couple of days and Melbourne IT didn't mention the fact that I might have any problem doing the transfer.

The problem is that if the name has already expired it's usually too late to transfer away. Some registrars like Netsol actually require that at least one week remains before expiry, in order to transfer to another registrar.
I hate to say it, but you admit you procrastinated. Now you're paying the price. Well you can wait for the domain to drop, if you can afford to risk losing it forever.

 

[whitebark]

Sounds like two things went wrong - it was already expired and has been noted some registrars won't allow a transfer at that point. Second requesting an authorization code will not unlock a domain for transfer. You have to unlock the domain via your account control panel.

At this point either hurry up and pay their ransom fee or take your chances via auction. You could end up paying way more via the auction route if the domain has value to other people. If the domain is needed for business purposes pay their fee and move it to another registrar and renew it for ten years to avoid a similar problem again.

 

[verbster]

Many registrars auto-lock domains when they expire; they are blocked from transfer, and the auth code will not unlock them. Even if the registrar didn't say anything about this, you were the one who let them expire, and then waited too long to call. Sounds like with your registrar, the only way to transfer them would have been to renew first anyway. And since you didn't think they were worth renewing at that price, they're probably not worth enough to mess with. Time to move on.

 

[tricolorro]

The problem is that if the name has already expired it's usually too late to transfer away. Some registrars like Netsol actually require that at least one week remains before expiry, in order to transfer to another registrar.
I hate to say it, but you admit you procrastinated. Now you're paying the price. Well you can wait for the domain to drop, if you can afford to risk losing it forever.

:hi: Kate,

This is not actually correct.

Such a "time remaining" transfer denial is a violation of ICANN's Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy.

http://www.icann.org/transfers/policy-12jul04.htm

Excerpt:
"The Registrar of Record may deny a transfer request (based on time remaining) only in the following specific instances:

8. A domain name is in the first 60 days of an initial registration period.

9. A domain name is within 60 days (or a lesser period to be determined) after being transferred..."

"Instances when the requested change of Registrar may not be denied include...:

Domain name registration period time constraints, other than during the first 60 days of initial registration or during the first 60 days after a registrar transfer.
----

My words: No Registrar can set their own policy that goes against ICANN's Transfer Policy.
---

Now what about denying a transfer for a recently expired domain based on non-payment of renewal fee?

See:
Registrar Advisory Concerning the Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy
http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/advisory-03apr08.htm

April 03, 2008

Excerpt:
1. Registrars are prohibited from denying a domain name transfer request based on non-payment of fees for pending or future registration periods during the Auto-Renew Grace Period;

In those cases where a registrant has paid all past registration fees, but has not paid for renewal, and the domain name is in the Auto-Renew Grace Period , registrars are prohibited from denying a transfer request,as a registration in the Auto-Renew Grace Period is either a "pending or future" registration, during which time the Transfer Policy prohibits denial of transfers on the basis of non-payment.

Registrars that impose policies or procedures on their registrants that are contrary to this determination are in violation of the Transfer Policy.

If you feel your Registrar is breaching its Registrar Accreditation Agreement with ICANN, then you should contact the ICANN compliance team.

Its head is Stacy Burnette and you can email her at:
[email protected]

 

[verbster]

In those cases where a registrant has paid all past registration fees, but has not paid for renewal, and the domain name is in the Auto-Renew Grace Period , registrars are prohibited from denying a transfer request,as a registration in the Auto-Renew Grace Period is either a "pending or future" registration, during which time the Transfer Policy prohibits denial of transfers on the basis of non-payment.

This is interesting, as policies for some registrars seem to be at odds with this. However, is there a definition by days of what the "auto-renew grace period" is? For instance, say a domain expires on May 1, 2009. in terms of exact days/dates, I wonder what that grace period is . . . five days after expiration or maybe every day right up through pending deletiion until it's deleted (31 days, I think--the time most registrars charge big money to retrieve and will not allow a transfer).

 

[Name Trader]

If it's already in Redemption it's no longer in the Auto-Renew Grace Period.

I agree with Kate. Avoid lousy registrars like Yahoo/MelbourneIT.

The Cheapest way to get the domain back now would be to bid on it at SnapNames and hope nobody else wants it.

 

[Dave_Z]

However, is there a definition by days of what the "auto-renew grace period" is?

Right here:

http://www.icann.org/en/tlds/agreements/verisign/appendix-07-01mar06.htm

The Auto-Renew Grace Period is a specified number of calendar days following an auto-renewal. An auto-renewal occurs if a domain name registration is not renewed by the expiration date; in this circumstance the registration will be automatically renewed by the system the first day after the expiration date. The current value of the Auto-Renew Grace Period is 45 calendar days.

 

[Dave_Z]

Whoops, double post. But I agree with Stu that doing a backorder can be the
closest "best" solution to this, based on what the OP described.

Otherwise the OP could try to luckily re-register it, though run the risk of the
domain being taken via a backorder or so by another party.

 

[jberryhill]

Such a "time remaining" transfer denial is a violation of ICANN's Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy.

Yeah, so?

I tried the transfer within 24 hours of my call to Melbourne. I was later notified that the transfer had failed. I forgot about it and hated the idea of having to call both registrars about this. Big mistake. Two weeks later I called Melbourne IT

Two weeks later? Like the situation was going to magically work itself out and get better.

my new registrar told me that I needed what they call an authorization code to "unlock" my domain

Here's where your basic issue is. No, an auth code does not "unlock" a domain.

The word "lock" is used in a variety of context to refer to a couple of different things, but the relevant meaning here is that a domain registrant can request that a domain name be "locked" against transfer to another registrar. The only way to unlock a domain name subject to that kind of lock is to have the present registrar unlock it - usually by logging in and performing some kind of unlock function within the registrar account interface.

The subtext here is Yahoo as a re-seller essentially buys "white box registrar services" from a variety of registrars, and it's a pretty sloppy practice since when you register a domain name through Yahoo, typically a naive user will not know who the actual registrar is. Whether Yahoo provides access to the unlock feature is anyone's guess, as I've never used their interface and personally believe that anyone who uses Yahoo domain reseller services is half out of their mind from the get-go.

The general procedure is:

unlock domain name at current registrar
get auth-code for domain
request transfer at gaining registrar
confirm emails from both registrars and use auth-code when & where requested

The auth code must be supplied by the gaining registrar to the registry, or the registry will not issue the transfer to the losing registrar.

Regardless of what you were told by phone support droids, who might just as well read random passages from Beowulf for all the practical help they will provide, unless and until you figured out how to unlock the domain name at Melbourne IT, that domain wasn't going to go anywhere. Did they really give you an auth code on the telephone, by the way?

Also, whatever may have been the specific mechanics of the operation, or who said what to whom about unlocking this or that, you had the additional problem of time working against you. If the domain name goes into redemption status then it's not going to matter who shot whom last week, what matters is that the name is now in redemption status, and its not coming out unless the fee is paid and the redemption procedure followed.

Now, as noted above, if these names are headed for Snapnames, then they may go to auction. Only you know what the names are and whether or not someone might find them to be more valuable than you do, so it is utterly clear that at the present moment you are faced with one and only one certain way to get those names back.

And, yes, there may be umpteen ICANN rule violations going on. If you think ICANN has a magic wand to wave and make everything "all better" because a registrar might have violated a rule, then I hope the Easter Bunny brings you a nice basket, the Tooth Fairy pays off big for your dentures, and Santa has you on the "good" list this year.

 

[tricolorro]

Such a "time remaining" transfer denial is a violation of ICANN's Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy.

---------

Yeah, so?

Yeah, so?

So...you do what you can to fight it instead of just rolling over
and playing dead.

The squeaky wheel is the one that usually gets greased.

 

[labrocca]

Regardless of what you were told by phone support droids, who might just as well read random passages from Beowulf for all the practical help they will provide

Funniest statement I have read on this site for weeks. lol...totally hilarious and so true.

Basically sounds like OP is screwed. Pay their fee and be done with it imho. Blaming them won't get back your domain and neither will years of lawsuits if it gets into the hands of the drop market. You screwed up. You're given the opportunity to renew, transfer, and whatever and you sat on your hands instead. Registrars are probably one of the worst companies to deal with since their entire business is online based. None of them have stellar support nor do they care. If their site works as it should then they are a good registrar and you should never have to call anyone. If you're making calls....it's a bad registrar and it's time to move asap.

Too often I see people choosing registrars badly and long-term it costs them time and effort.

 

[silverider]

Yeah, so?



The general procedure is:

unlock domain name at current registrar
get auth-code for domain
request transfer at gaining registrar
confirm emails from both registrars and use auth-code when & where requested

The auth code must be supplied by the gaining registrar to the registry, or the registry will not issue the transfer to the losing registrar.

Regardless of what you were told by phone support droids, who might just as well read random passages from Beowulf for all the practical help they will provide, unless and until you figured out how to unlock the domain name at Melbourne IT, that domain wasn't going to go anywhere. Did they really give you an auth code on the telephone, by the way?

Now, as noted above, if these names are headed for Snapnames, then they may go to auction. Only you know what the names are and whether or not someone might find them to be more valuable than you do, so it is utterly clear that at the present moment you are faced with one and only one certain way to get those names back.

I got an authorization code from Melbourne IT, over the phone, confirmed by email.
I didn't screw up , they screwed up . Melbourne IT by not doing the transfer and the gaining registrar to a certain extent by doing nothing more than sending me a total of three email overs two weeks, with no other explanation than Melbourne was to be contacted. If you have dealt with any online companies, you know that they love to waste your time . It's becoming a generalized issue, the bigger the company the more frequent the problems.

You constantly have to deal with incompetent people and time consuming procedures , and it's not the customer's job to stay on top of all the issues created by these people.


Just the fact that I had to deal with Melbourne IT which I never chose to do business with , is wrong. I never had an account with them to "unlock" a domain. Of course I could have opened an account, but I don't have the time ! The transfer procedure is in itself too complicated edspecially for a newbie.



Now I am thinking about "backordering" the name at my new registrar.
I don't know about an auction snapname, I don't want to compete against someone else on an auction. Doesn't sound good to me.

 

[Dave_Z]

Silverider, there's a lot of blame to go around. As Labrocca said, though, it will
not get the domain back, and neither Yahoo! nor Melbourne will do it for you.

If your primary concern is somehow getting the domain back, coupled with its
being in redemption now, then you practically have only two options:

1. You can try to register it manually when it becomes available about 35-36
days from its last updated date. If the domain's in redemption and its updated
date was (for example) March 29, then it'll be open by about May 5 between
1-2PM EST.

Of course, the risk there is someone else might grab it before you. That leads
to:

2. Make a backorder with companies like SnapNames and (?) NameJet. That's
what they're mainly in business for: to try to grab the domain for its customer
before another party does.

As you're aware, someone else might also bid for the name and get into a bid
war with you. It's unfortunate there aren't any surefire guarantee options, but
you do have some.

(There's actually a third option: get another name. Ultimately, it's up to you.)

 

[jberryhill]

Now I am thinking about "backordering" the name at my new registrar.
I don't know about an auction snapname, I don't want to compete against someone else on an auction. Doesn't sound good to me.

I understand this stuff is new to you. I understand that you don't quite get that Yahoo was not your registrar, and that Melbourne IT was, as a consequence of the way that Yahoo re-sells services.

The bottom line remains that the name needed to be unlocked at Melbourne IT prior to transfer, and the registrant is the only one that can do that.

Now, as far as your path forward is concerned, it is absolutely clear that you found registering and transferring a name to be confusing, and that you still don't understand that process. The expiring name process is a lot MORE confusing. Good luck with that.

Whether or not the name goes to auction is not up to you. If more than one person at Afternic/Namejet/Snapnames - or whether MelbourneIT's names go to die - is interested in picking up your name, then there's going to be an auction, and there is nothing you are going to be able to do about it.

So...you do what you can to fight it instead of just rolling over
and playing dead.

The squeaky wheel is the one that usually gets greased.

My goodness... I've been at domain legal disputes for over a decade, and I never thought of that!

Complaining to ICANN about an alleged transfer rule violation is not going to get this name back. You can be as squeaky as you want.

 

[silverider]

I was told by my registrar that someone backordered my name so I can't backorder it. This is a nightmare. And its very odd because just a couple days earlier the registrar had suggested I backorder it and it didn't seem to be a problem at that time, they could do it right then and there. Now they can't someone has taken my domain ! well well...

I think Melbourne owes me an explanation, I have been trying to figure out if by chance I am at fault by entering an incorrect auth. code but they are telling me ( at the new registrar) that if that was the case I would have received an error message. And btw I am not too happy with those guys either, I am witholding the name for now though. So if I did everything allright someone is cheating me out of my money and now out of my domain !

Anyone who has the address of an attorney specialized in those cases I would aoppreciate if you could send it my way.

 

[Kate]

I was told by my registrar that someone backordered my name so I can't backorder it.

That does not make sense to me, unless your registrar is only taking one backorder slot per domain/customer. That would be the case with godaddy but here we're talking about Melbourne IT.
What is possible is that the name now is no longer in redemption but has entered pending-delete status. At this point it can no longer be recovered and you should place a backorder with multiple catchers: snapnames, pool, possibly godaddy.

Perhaps it would help if you could post the current whois output for your domain. You can check here:
http://registrar.verisign-grs.com/whois/.

If the domain is to drop, any registrar could catch it. You may still have a chance, but be prepared to compete with other people in a private auction.