Domain Transfer Dispute

[YourIdealDomain]

Hi. I'm not certain if this is the right section to be posting this in but it seems like it is the closest. I have a question about a transfer dispute that I am currently experiencing with a registrar. In late December, I ordered a domain through SnapNames that was registered at a horrible registrar. I would now like to transfer this domain to a real registrar. In mid-January, I ordered whois privacy for this domain. When they sent me the form to request whois privacy, the rep from the registrar told me that while I had whois privacy activated, the registrar would become the "acting" owner of the domain until I revoke the whois privacy. They said that this is what every registrar does. Now that more than 60 days have passed, I contacted the registrar to unlock the domain and send me the authorization code. I was told that in order to do this, I would have to revoke the whois privacy by sending them another form and I would have to wait an additional 60 days after I revoked the whois privacy to transfer the domain. I checked the ICANN website and it doesn't seem that they can do this. I have posted the link to a page on the site below. Here are a few regulations from the site that I think prove that I should be able to transfer my domain.

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http://www.icann.org/transfers/dnholder-faq-03nov04.htm

A registrar may legitimately deny a transfer request in certain limited circumstances, as follows:

* Evidence of fraud
* Uniform Domain-Name Dispute Resolution Policy (UDRP) action
* Court order
* Reasonable dispute over the identity of the person authorizing the transfer
* Domain name is on hold due to payment owed for a previous registration period
* Express written objection from the domain name holder
* Domain name is in �Lock� status (Registrars must provide a readily accessible and reasonable means for name holders to remove the lock status. Contact your registrar for assistance.)
* Domain name is within 60 days of initial registration
* Domain name is within 60 days of a previous transfer
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It only says that they can deny transfers if a domain is within 60 days of INITIAL registration or a previous transfer. Initial registration was in December and the domain wasn't ever transferred. Here is something else from the same page:

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My registrar is listed as the Administrative Contact for my domain name and this is preventing my transfer from going through. What do I do?

If you are listed as the Registrant for the domain name, you can ask your new registrar of choice to send the required Form of Authorization to you rather than the Administrative Contact.

You can also update the data associated with the domain name and name a different Administrative Contact. Some registrars offer an online interface tool for you to manage this data yourself; others can make these updates if you contact their customer service.

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As it shows above, domains can be transferred even when the registrar is listed as the administrative contact.


Has anybody had any similar experiences? If so, what did you do? It also says on that ICANN page that I can contact the registrar that I want to transfer my domain to and they would be able to file a transfer dispute. Would there be any point in doing this? Has this ever worked for anybody? Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide.

 

[Ronald Regging]

Basically if you change the Whois details, this is considered a transfer. You're transfering it from one owner to another, though it's being done internally at a single registrar, it still gives them the right to pull this 60 day crap. Godaddy does the exact same thing.

Plus you've agreed to the registrar's TOS which probably outline this whole scenario. So basically while it sucks, theres not much you can do except wait.

 

[tricolorro]

Basically if you change the Whois details, this is considered a transfer. You're transfering it from one owner to another, though it's being done internally at a single registrar, it still gives them the right to pull this 60 day crap. Godaddy does the exact same thing.

Plus you've agreed to the registrar's TOS which probably outline this whole scenario. So basically while it sucks, theres not much you can do except wait.

"it still gives them the right to pull this 60 day crap. Godaddy does the exact same thing."

:hi:

Please tell me another Registrar that pulls that GoDaddy crap
(besides Network solutions).

"...if you change the Whois details, this is considered a transfer. "

Please indicate where you got this idea?

Changing your email address ,telephone # or personal or business address
does not constitute a change of WhoIs.

In case you don't know, all domain registrants are required to maintain current and correct WhoIs info.

How can complying equate to a domain transfer?

Makes absolutely no sense.

I don't know the current status of this but back on Sept 19,2007,
ICANN proposed an advisory:

Registrar Advisory Concerning the Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy

Excerpt:
"A registrant change to Whois information is not a valid basis for denying a transfer request."

see here:
http://www.icann.org/announcements/proposed-advisory-19sep07.htm

From Andrew Alleman of DomainNameWire on Godaddy's transfer denial policy :

"I actually mentioned this problem to Vint Cerf, Chair of ICANN’s Board of Directors, at a Domain Roundtable conference two years ago. He was surprised to hear about GoDaddy’s policy."

See here:
"GoDaddy May Have to Stop ‘60 Day’ Transfer Policy"

http://domainnamewire.com/2007/09/22/godaddy-may-have-to-stop-60-day-transfer-policy/

By the way, if you complain directly to GoDaddy if they block your domain transfer for updating WhoIs, they will usually relent...

...especially if you're an important customer...

...because they know their policy is wrong. :imho:

Patrick

 

[AdoptableDomains]

Technically it's not according to the ICANN rules, but it might be a part of the regsitrar's TOS for registration or for proxy services. ICANN has rules on transfers, but doesn't stop registrars from creating their own tighter rules on proxy services, or at least hasn't shown an interest in overriding them. You could dispute it with ICANN, but I doubt you'd get an answer in the time you need to (if at all), so basically you'd be doing it on principal. As far as I know, only godaddy and wildwest have the 60 day after ownership change hold policy in place, but others may be copying it.

Personally, I wouldn't use whois privacy or proxy services at this time, as you then are entrusting the registrar who provides it completely. In this case you already admitted the registrar is "horrible". If they screw up, you have no way of proving ownership. In rare cases, they might even get vindictive and not put it back in your name if you filed a dispute on them. Many lost their domains to Registerfly in this way last year. Until ICANN or a third party starts getting escrow of the files showing a cross reference of proxy to real ownership, I just don't trust privacy services.

 

[tricolorro]

Technically it's not according to the ICANN rules, but it might be a part of the regsitrar's TOS for registration or for proxy services. ICANN has rules on transfers, but doesn't stop registrars from creating their own tighter rules on proxy services, or at least hasn't shown an interest in overriding them.

:hi:

A Registrar can make any TOS they want but NOT if it's a violation of the
Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy.

Patrick

 

[AdoptableDomains]

:hi:

A Registrar can make any TOS they want but NOT if it's a violation of the
Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy.

Patrick

Technicality, but not reality.

Godaddy has had this "Domain Name Change of Registrant Agreement" for some time that would seem to be in violation of the ICANN Policy:

Upon completion of the change of Registrant of the Domain Name, Go Daddy will send an email to the Current Registrant confirming the change of Registrant contemplated by this Agreement. If the Current Registrant has any objection to the change of Registrant whatsoever, the Current Registrant assumes all responsibility for responding to such email and notifying Go Daddy of any objection within fifteen (15) calendar days. The Current Registrant agrees to release, indemnify and hold Go Daddy harmless for any issues that arise as a result of an improper change of Registrant, whether intentionally or unintentionally initiated, whether by the Current Registrant or others acting on its behalf. The domain name may not be transferred to another registrar within 60 days of the completion of the change of Registrant transaction (the "Transfer Prohibition Period"). In the event the domain name is subject to another change of Registrant within the Transfer Prohibition Period, the 60 day Transfer Prohibition Period will begin again upon completion of the subsequent change of Registrant transaction.

http://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/legal_agreements/show_doc.asp?plvid=1&pageid=domain_nc

I'm guessing their legal view is that in effect, the new registrant has made an agreement not to change registries for 60 days, which trumps the ICANN policy, or gets around it by saying its not the same registrant. I've never liked or agreed with this TOS, but it has yet to be overturned by ICANN.

In addition, ICANN has overlooked several other registrar/registry TOS policies used to get around ICANN policies. One of them is auctioning names before they officially drop by taking ownership after expiration. Another is registrars owning and trading in domains themselves. A third one is allowing Encirca to act as proxy registrant for .pro general ownership, clearly against the ICANN contract. Given time, I could probably come up with several more...

I don't know the current status of this but back on Sept 19,2007,
ICANN proposed an advisory:

Registrar Advisory Concerning the Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy

Excerpt:
"A registrant change to Whois information is not a valid basis for denying a transfer request."

see here:
http://www.icann.org/announcements/proposed-advisory-19sep07.htm

I think ICANN is headed the right direction, but the keyword of the above is PROPOSED. They haven't actually done anything about it yet to my knowledge.

 

[Ronald Regging]

I think ICANN is headed the right direction, but the keyword of the above is PROPOSED. They haven't actually done anything about it yet to my knowledge.

That is the prevailing trend when it comes to ICANN. They propose a lot of stuff, but do very little.

 

[DomainNameWire]

GoDaddy is able to pull the 60 day rule by citing that registrars and limit transfers if there's reason to suspect fraud. The registrar says that a change to whois may represent fraud. However, 60 days is clearly too long and that's why people have been pushing for a change.

E-mail [email protected] to request the block be removed.