The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[verbster]

Certainly former Republican voters would be more inclined to join the Tea Party than Democrats, but that doesn't mean the Republican party created the Tea Party, which is where we started. Look the UKIP and the Conservative party in the UK for a similar trend.

You both seem right in your own way. While you are not exactly in sync, you're close enough. If you are looking for a specific name or example of "the Republicans" who formed it, all you have to do is read the entire Wikipedia entry. It will guide you through the mailing of tea bags, who called the first meeting using the moniker (the "Tea Party"), and how it grew and was financed. You could call it a grassroots movement, but you also need to recognize the people involved in the early creation and popularization were predominantly conservative Republicans and some Libertarians, with the Republicans doing almost all of the financing both privately and publicly.

"I haven't been a US resident for over 20 years"
"At least, in China, the people have some idea of how free they are"

Second is an opinion, but one that I stand by. The first is true, so your point is what?

The point seems to be that your statement that you correctly classify as an opinion is left open as what could be interpreted as either a negative statement or positive but supported neither way and reflects on your credibility to comment on the politics of a country you don't live in. I lived in China about 20 years ago, but I sure wouldn't feel confident in making sweeping statements about a country farmer's current personal understanding of freedoms in Beijing Vs. New York.

Stating that Chinese citizens "have some idea of how free they are" is the same as saying they have some idea of how they are not free. However, if "most people are ignorant," how would they know? And which part of China are you speaking for?

You wrote, "...you would have to agree there's nothing crazy about it [the Tea Party platform]. If you actually do think the ideas are crazy, then nothing said here will convince you otherwise. I juts find it odd that citizens in the country that talks most about freedom have so little of it - and seem perfectly happy to lose even more. That's what I think prompted the Tea Party to form."


The problem here is that you are presenting the platform points in their best possible light but not including the craziness of the people who will "champion" them based on their personal perspectives (like Palin and Paul), people and their ideologies the public clearly rejected in the last two elections.

The other aspect you left out is the second part of the platform equation; and rightly so because it doesn't exist: The plan of how to achieve these goals. The ways offered to achieve the platform goals are what I would truly call crazy because of the lack of regard for the collateral consequences. It's easy to say we need to cut spending and cut taxes and have more freedoms, but as far as I can tell, there is no consensus plan on how to do the platform list or what the effects will be. It hasn't been thought through.

Lastly, there has been little indication the Tea Party is willing to play well with others. It's their way or the highway no matter what the consequences or impact of their actions.

 

[RaiderGirl]

Anyone who follows politics would know the Tea Party is more about fiscal conservatism than anything else, And to compare them to the Republican party, clearly their ideology on most issues is more in line with the Libertarian party, but regardless of party, any of these 3 occupying the executive branch would be a great improvement to the massive spend policies of the last 4 1/2 years, not to mention all the corruption.

It's generational theft no matter how you look at it.

 

[verbster]

Anyone who follows politics would know the Tea Party is more about fiscal conservatism than anything else, And to compare them to the Republican party, clearly their ideology on most issues is more in line with the Libertarian party, but regardless of party, any of these 3 occupying the executive branch would be a great improvement to the massive spend policies of the last 4 1/2 years, not to mention all the corruption.

It's generational theft no matter how you look at it.

"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.~ Ronald Reagan"

Yes, the Tea Party is about what you are calling fiscal conservatism, but that wasn't the question being discussed.

"Fiscal conservatism" and "generational theft" are nice sounding terms, but what do they actually mean, and how are they going to be addressed? I'd enjoy reading any Republican/Tea Party/Libertarian document that honestly addresses the consequences of reaching their goals.

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter."~ Cheney

 

[DU]

....wtf was i thinking...

 

[Domainace]

The Koch Bros.... they doubled their money, on Obama's watch.
Bottom line: The Koch Bros. are morally bankrupt.

I think we both agree then that Obama has been very good to the super wealthy, who are able to take advantage of a politicized economy. I would think that makes Obama the morally bankrupt one, not the Koch brothers. But to each his own.

The point seems to be that your statement that you correctly classify as an opinion is left open as what could be interpreted as either a negative statement or positive but supported neither way and reflects on your credibility to comment on the politics of a country you don't live in. I lived in China about 20 years ago, but I sure wouldn't feel confident in making sweeping statements about a country farmer's current personal understanding of freedoms in Beijing Vs. New York.

The ways offered to achieve the platform goals are what I would truly call crazy because of the lack of regard for the collateral consequences.

It's their way or the highway no matter what the consequences or impact of their actions.

If a knowledge of country farmers in China is all that's needed here, I guess have one up on you. I talked to countless country farmers - it was part of my job when I lived there. And, as you would expect, they are not especially well-informed as a rule. I was referring to educated Chinese. And, as a rule, they have a better appreciation of freedom than equally educated Americans... in my opinion. Someone write, in this thread I think, that less government meaning more freedom is ridiculous - when it's obvious and beyond debate that laws and regulations, by definition, restrict freedom.

Regarding collateral consequences, I really have to disagree. I don't think they will be that bad short term, and that they will immensely outweighed by positive consequences long term. It's pretty obvious that the state has displaced roles that have been traditionally well-managed by families and communities. If there are any problems, it is because the state did this. The sooner communities, families and individuals take back responsibility for themselves, the sooner things will improve. That's my opinion as well, but one I'm pretty confident in. Unfortunately, in the case of the US, it looks like things will get far more authoritarian before they ever get better - and that's due to the huge lack of appreciation for freedom and personal rights (except on marginally relevant or pet issues).

 

[DynamoMoe]

this section hard to read with so much hate and attaks.

I read and try to follow politicing but nobody talk to each other.

not learn anything except which who hate who

 

[verbster]

this section hard to read with so much hate and attaks.

I read and try to follow politicing but nobody talk to each other.

not learn anything except which who hate who

Sorry it comes across that way. it's possible to strongly disagree about a topic without hating the person who wrote it. Personally, I learn a lot. I don't think agreement with viewpoints is necessary for learning. Maybe just the opposite....

---------- Post added at 06:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 AM ----------

I think we both agree then that Obama has been very good to the super wealthy, who are able to take advantage of a politicized economy. I would think that makes Obama the morally bankrupt one, not the Koch brothers. But to each his own.

For sure, congress has been good to the Kochs.

If a knowledge of country farmers in China is all that's needed here, I guess have one up on you. I talked to countless country farmers - it was part of my job when I lived there. And, as you would expect, they are not especially well-informed as a rule. I was referring to educated Chinese. And, as a rule, they have a better appreciation of freedom than equally educated Americans... in my opinion. Someone write, in this thread I think, that less government meaning more freedom is ridiculous - when it's obvious and beyond debate that laws and regulations, by definition, restrict freedom.

Educated Chinese definitely know how much freedom they don't have. What I meant by farmers was that their freedoms and the knowledge they have about them is very different than other citizens of the many cities and various economic zones, especially the new class of noveau riche.

Regarding collateral consequences, I really have to disagree. I don't think they will be that bad short term, and that they will immensely outweighed by positive consequences long term. It's pretty obvious that the state has displaced roles that have been traditionally well-managed by families and communities. If there are any problems, it is because the state did this. The sooner communities, families and individuals take back responsibility for themselves, the sooner things will improve. That's my opinion as well, but one I'm pretty confident in. Unfortunately, in the case of the US, it looks like things will get far more authoritarian before they ever get better - and that's due to the huge lack of appreciation for freedom and personal rights (except on marginally relevant or pet issues).

You presume your sweeping statements (opinions) are accepted as true: ...won't be that bad; immensely outweighed; pretty obvious; displace roles; take back responsibility; things will get far more authoritarian; lack of appreciation for freedom...etc.

On some statements, I probably partially agree with you, but can't be sure.

Do you have a specific topic that can serve as an example, like education, food stamps, social security.... or even something minor.

 

[GILSAN]

this section hard to read with so much hate and attaks.

I read and try to follow politicing but nobody talk to each other.

not learn anything except which who hate who

That is especially true of American politics.

Here are some "Quotes About Politics" that I like and perhaps you may enjoy.

“The Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
― Thomas Jefferson

“In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte

“A good politician is quite as unthinkable as an honest burglar.”
― H.L. Mencken

“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

“Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”
― Winston Churchill

“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
― Edward R. Murrow

“Absolute power does not corrupt absolutely, absolute power attracts the corruptible.”
― Frank Herbert

“It’s scary to be a woman on a blind date. For all she knows the man she is meeting up with could be a rapist, a murderer, or, God forbid, a politician.”
― Jarod Kintz

“I once saw a snake having sex with a vulture, and I thought, It’s just business as usual in Washington DC.
”
― Jarod Kintz,

“One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.”
― Plato

“The Roots of Violence: Wealth without work, Pleasure without conscience, Knowledge without character, Commerce without morality, Science without humanity, Worship without sacrifice, Politics without principles."
― Mahatma Gandhi

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
― Winston Churchill

“Society is like a stew. If you don't stir it up every once in a while then a layer of scum floats to the top.”
― Edward Abbey

“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.”
― Peter Stone

“A politician needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.”
― Winston Churchill

“I once watched several criminals engage in an organized argument, while an audience of supporters cheered them on, but I was so disgusted that I had to turn off the political debate. 
”
― Jarod Kintz,

“Politicians are like warts on the body of society. And the only thing worse than warts are lawyers and lobbyists.
”
― Jarod Kintz

“Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book.”
― Ronald Reagan

“When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not Guilty'.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

“I once saw a politician walking a dog, and I thought, “How absurd—an animal walking an animal.” Then I thought, “If given the choice, I’d rather vote for the dog.”
”
― Jarod Kintz

“Insider trading is a serious crime. Do you know what the penalty for doing it is? Nothing, if you’re a member of Congress.
”
― Jarod Kintz,

“He knows nothing; and he thinks he knows everything. That points clearly to a political career.”
― George Bernard Shaw

“Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope.”
― George Carlin

 

[DynamoMoe]

ha. Some funny quote in there.

 

[RaiderGirl]

why you mean? I no know these peoples.

The more I think about it, ZigmundF wouldn't portray himself as someone from the Dominican Republic, he's too much of racist to do that... Your definitely someone from DNF, and I'm not buying into the poor grammared newbie from the Dominican Republic, which makes me wonder what your objective here is?

Only time will tell.

this section hard to read with so much hate and attaks.

I read and try to follow politicing but nobody talk to each other.

not learn anything except which who hate who

Maybe you can tell us "who hates who"? Because I don't see ""hate" here at all, I don't anything like the vicious personal attacks they have on DNF, not even close...

Here on NP, when a member loses an argument, he/she doesn't go into Google and dig up a members family history and use that information to attack his opponent, that's what they do on DNF, but since your a member there you would already know that wouldn't you?

Ideologically, JBLions and Verbster and I disagree on most everything politically, but I'm sure if I met either one of these guys in person and we left politics at home, we would be the best of friends... Discussing politics doesn't have to get personal, heated YES, that's expected, but not personal, theirs a difference.

Look back to where the P-Section was on DNF a few years ago and look at it today, it's a graveyard that nobody posts in anymore, all because a small group of intolerant assholes who happen to be liberal, drove the conservative voice out with their vicious personal attacks, When you drive out opposing viewpoints, what are you left with? your left with everyone agreeing with one another, making it one BORING ass forum...

Amazing how one narcissistic asshole can destroy a perfectly good forum... Say hello to the gang for me, will you "Dynamoe"?

 

[verbster]

The more I think about it, ZigmundF wouldn't portray himself as someone from the Dominican Republic, he's too much of racist to do that... Your definitely someone from DNF, and I'm not buying into the poor grammared newbie from the Dominican Republic, which makes me wonder what your objective here is?

Only time will tell.





Maybe you can tell us "who hates who"? Because I don't see ""hate" here at all, I don't anything like the vicious personal attacks they have on DNF, not even close...

Here on NP, when a member loses an argument, he/she doesn't go into Google and dig up a members family history and use that information to attack his opponent, that's what they do on DNF, but since your a member there you would already know that wouldn't you?

Ideologically, JBLions and Verbster and I disagree on most everything politically, but I'm sure if I met either one of these guys in person and we left politics at home, we would be the best of friends... Discussing politics doesn't have to get personal, heated YES, that's expected, but not personal, theirs a difference.

Look back to where the P-Section was on DNF a few years ago and look at it today, it's a graveyard that nobody posts in anymore, all because a small group of intolerant assholes who happen to be liberal, drove the conservative voice out with their vicious personal attacks, When you drive out opposing viewpoints, what are you left with? your left with everyone agreeing with one another, making it one BORING ass forum...

Amazing how one narcissistic asshole can destroy a perfectly good forum... Say hello to the gang for me, will you "Dynamoe"?

I've not really been active at DNF. I think I signed up many years ago and found out they wanted me to pay to be a member, and that was the end of that. I don't know what's going on over there, but it doesn't sound too inviting. Will have to check it out one of these days.

Not to sound like a cliché, but some of my best friends are conservatives, and we get along famously. As long as you aren't conservative about what you drink and enjoy buying a round when it's your turn, we're friends.

 

[DU]

Anyone who follows politics would know the Tea Party is more about fiscal conservatism than anything else

There I was thinking it was mostly about constitutionalism.

 

[RaiderGirl]

I've not really been active at DNF. I think I signed up many years ago and found out they wanted me to pay to be a member, and that was the end of that. I don't know what's going on over there, but it doesn't sound too inviting. Will have to check it out one of these days.

When you check it out again, be prepared to take out your wallet and be in for a real disappointment, most of the seasoned pros are long GONE.

The forum has been over run with newbies, many thought if they paid to join, it must be good LMAO..

Then you have the crappy subforums that redirect you to another web site, This is where they create threads with catchy headlines and teaser content, all in a effort to get you to click, and when you get to the site, your disappointed, They must of learned that from the National Inquirer.

Clearly theirs more interaction here compared to DNF, so much that Adam felt the need to create a thread asking members what they like or hate about NP & DNF

One poster writes;

Despite the "stats" it seems like there only a handful of active users here.

Types of Active DNF Members:

Those selling awful domains
Those needing appraisals for awful domains
Those actually participating and adding value (Under 5%)


Their idea of "adding value" is self promotion OR promoting industry players like Michael Mann...

I'm willing to bet that by the end of this year, DNF'ers will know if Mann wears boxers or briefs and whether or not he leaves shit stains.

 

[JB Lions]

Good news Americans:

It's official: Housing is back

Prices are rising in 41 states, construction is booming and homebuilder stocks are on the rise. It's time to call the recovery.

http://money.msn.com/investing/its-official-housing-is-back

Housing market up.
Stock market up.
Consumer confidence up.
Unemployment still going down.
Deficit shrinking.
Wars winding down.

 

[GILSAN]

Certainly former Republican voters would be more inclined to join the Tea Party than Democrats, but that doesn't mean the Republican party created the Tea Party, which is where we started. Look the UKIP and the Conservative party in the UK for a similar trend.

I’m very hopefull the UKIP will do very well in the next elections. They are beginning to get the Conservatives and Liberals a bit worried in the UK. About time to get the "Great" back into "Britain".

Too much "open door immigration" that allowed so much scum into the UK and the EU under mostly Liberal governments in the past 15-20 years. The disastrous results of these policies of creating culturally diverse societies are evident, with home grown terrorism, beheading soldiers, bombing trains, gangs grooming and raping young girls, riots, immigrant youths rampaging through streets, burning cars, Police stations and even stoning Firefighters who come to combat the fires, just to name a few things.

So many of these ungrateful immigrants don't want to integrate, but instead, came to Europe to milk and abuse the generous welfare and health system, without contributing, and on top of that they still want to impose their strange cultures and Sharia Law on us. And they are succeeding because Liberal governments and the MSM are turning a blind eye.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz267A6jhbw"]Muslims must reject jihad - YouTube[/ame]

We can thank all of this to the Liberals, who only did it to stay in power with the help of immigrants votes, contrary to the wishes of most of the population. This is very similar to what the Democrats want to do by legalizing 11 million illegals, which should maintain them in power for a very long time.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...urs-unforgivable-betrayal-British-people.html

I have more to add on this post but NAMEPROS has gotten worse after the last changes and now It doesn't accept a relatively long post. If they don't do somethng about it i will just give up with NAMEPROS

 

[verbster]

In the next elections, I'm hoping candidates with your opinions and beliefs get elected. In fact, post a list of who you want to win the national elections, and I'll vote for them.

 

[DU]

"And I don’t have much of a formal education – which is good, because it means I can actually read and write. But it also means I don’t have a great deal of what you might call actual knowledge. "


Yeah, I can see why his videos are so popular.

 

[RaiderGirl]

Good news Americans:

It's official: Housing is back

Prices are rising in 41 states, construction is booming and homebuilder stocks are on the rise. It's time to call the recovery.

http://money.msn.com/investing/its-official-housing-is-back

Housing market up.
Stock market up.
Consumer confidence up.
Unemployment still going down.
Deficit shrinking.
Wars winding down.

LMAO!


Deficit shrinking? How is that lowering our debt?, oh wait, it's NOT.

Stock Market Goes up and down all the time, where are you when it's going down?

Housing Market up? In what market? Washington D.C.? That I can believe.

Construction booming? Yes, it usually picks up in Spring/Summer, what else is new?

As for the unemployment rate, Count the people who were removed from the workforce and tell me how the rate has gone down from the time this President took office.. Sadly, it's still in the 11%-12% range nationally.

You really need to stop getting your info from MSDNC.

 

[JB Lions]

Raider, everything I posted is true.

Yes, deficit is shrinking
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/14/budget-deficit-cbo-estimate/2158945/

Stock Market, yes it goes up and down, if you look at it daily. Overall it's up.

Housing Market, link in previous post.

Unemployment Rate, continuing to go down - http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

It's now 7.5%, not the number you posted, read the chart. It's the lowest it's been in 4 and a half years. You're going to come back and talk about some other U number and we've been over that before. That 7.5% is the number used when talking about the Unemployment rate, for every President. It's the number Romney used in national commercials, in National debates, always talking how it was over 8%, he mentioned that in his closing. Then it went under 8% before the election.

Consumer Confidence - Consumer confidence at 6-year high in May
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/05/31/consumer-spending-down/2375341/

Another one - The Conference Board Consumer Confidence Index® Improves in May
http://www.conference-board.org/data/consumerconfidence.cfm

Wars winding down? Yes. If we had Romney or McCain, we would probably have boots on the ground in Syria, even tho most Americans oppose that.

So my post was all true. Of course you're going to have a problem with it. I expect that from somebody who voted for the other guy, who wants Obama impeached. And that the economy is in fact getting better, doesn't bode well for Republicans, who used to say, It's all about the economy. It's why Fox News doesn't talk about the economy anymore.

 

[RaiderGirl]

Yes. If we had Romney or McCain, we would probably have boots on the ground in Syria, even tho most Americans oppose that.

I think you should just give up domaining completely and go into the palm reading business, or fortune telling, I'm sure I can get some of the guys here to pitch in for a crystal ball.

All kidding aside, this is what Liberals do, when the numbers come out each month and the economy is down, they say;

"Look at what he inherited Raider, WTF do you expect?" "It's the Republicans who got into this mess".. Yeah, 4 years and 6 TRILLION Dollars later and were still blaming Bush.

But when the economy is picking up and the numbers look good, we see posts like these, as well as that incompetent boob on natiional TV taking full credit for it.

Question; Do you really attribute Obama's policies to what you posted above?

 

[JB Lions]

"But when the economy is picking up and the numbers look good, we see posts like these,"

So now you finally admit it.

"as well as that incompetent boob on natiional TV taking full credit for it."

So who gets credit for it? And whoever gets credit for it, shouldn't they get credit for when it's bad?

Because you guys sure like to blame Obama when it's bad, but when it's good, it's somebody else?

My only point is the economy is rebounding, that's pretty evident. As someone who lives in this country, I'm happy about that, Republicans should be as well but it seems most put Party above Country. Or trying to get Obama, being a bunch of Obstructionists, instead of working together, trying to get things going.

"Yeah, 4 years and 6 TRILLION Dollars later and were still blaming Bush."

That's funny to me as well. The people always complaining about blaming Bush, are the ones always blaming Obama.

 

[RaiderGirl]

The question I asked is a very simple one;

Question; Do you really attribute Obama's policies what you listed here;?

Housing market up.
Stock market up.
Consumer confidence up.
Unemployment still going down.
Deficit shrinking.
Wars winding down.posted above

I like the "Wars winding down" achievement,

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VlXfs1K04g"]Obama's PROMISE To End The Iraq War - Oct. 27, 2007 - "You Can Take That To The Bank" - YouTube[/ame]

"You can take that to the bank."


Obama on closing Guantanamo Bay;

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8USRg3h4AdE"]Obama's Promise to immediately close Guantanamo - YouTube[/ame]

Should we take this one to the bank too?

 

[Theo Goodman]

The Mc Cain trip to Syria was a bold move by him. On the other hand if you just look at who helped him illegaly enter Syria and who he talked to then you can see the kind of groups that the US and Obama is supporting. Christian Republicans should ask themselves if the so called "rebels" are even tolerant of Christians at all and why would Mc Cain support such groups?

As far as the stock market being up, it will be interesting to see if that continues if and when the fed makes some adjustments.

 

[GILSAN]

The Mc Cain trip to Syria was a bold move by him. On the other hand if you just look at who helped him illegaly enter Syria and who he talked to then you can see the kind of groups that the US and Obama is supporting. Christian Republicans should ask themselves if the so called "rebels" are even tolerant of Christians at all and why would Mc Cain support such groups?

The Syrian situation looks too confusing. Looks like there are too many hands in the cookie jar and we aren't even sure who some of those hands belong to.

As far as the stock market being up, it will be interesting to see if that continues if and when the fed makes some adjustments.

The stock markets are up thanks mostly to Fed printing $80 billion every month out of thin air. When Bernanke decides to stop that, the markets will drop for sure

 

[Theo Goodman]

"
The Syrian situation looks too confusing. Looks like there are too many hands in the cookie jar and we aren't even sure who some of those hands belong to."

Well yea its not a black and white situhation. But one thing has been shown, Mc Cain supports rebel groups that hate christians, and dont hide that fact. However there is a lack of outcry from christian groups that are very vocal about other issues. That is quite interesting.
It doesnt prove anything but is interesting that Syria does not owe the IMF any money.
I fear that Syia will become like Yugoslavia if the EU and NATO really do what they are talking about.