The ugly side of domaining

[steveteva]

Yesterday I have a group discussion with some students from a university.
The theme I submit was domaining and domains sees by "Mr. Joe"
I've ask questions or did some small polls :
-Do you know what is domaining? Some gave good answer but don't really know much or think its not something making big money, while others did never heard of.
-Did you know that some domains were sold or are for sale for hundred thousands? Again they did not know it and most told that they don't care how much money were spend on because they don't visit a site saying on homepage "It cost me $$$$$, so come on in" but they visit website that have interesting contents that focuses on their searches.
-Do you visit domain names that have keywords in? Almost everyone told me NO (that shock me) they said they do trust more on domain that are branded like yahoo, ebay, facebook, amazon, expedia... or even other small ones for example someone told me it will more likely to visit foto.com than photo.com (these are website that we haven't visit but was example of witch one they will more likely visit), 100% said yes foto is what they will trust on. I than ask why? they said that keywords domain names or more like hobby sites not professional or just a page with few infos and lot of ads (they might refer to parking pages)
-Do you ever visit websites with domain names like .biz, .net, .mobi, .us, .pro, .tel... we call these TLD? Most of them if not all said NO, they don't even know that it exist all kind of TLD's, they know .org, .net .info but don't even type or click on these websites even if top ranked, they click on the next .com they see, I then ask why? some said because it's usually "garbage sites" or "spam sites" yes a student explained me he got lot of spams from websites with .net, .info, .biz.....
-Do you trust on CCTLD? I explain what was CCtlds but mostly never heard of, some did when they seeks on Google for hotels in new zealand and landed on .co.nz or others for australia .au but wasn't big deal for them since they book on dot com sites like expedia, kayak... They said that they believe that CCTLD was better than .com when in the country but not outside.
-What do you think of new TLDs like .me, .tel .pro .cm...? They laugh, great but really useless in real life a girl told me, and almost all said similar things but some recognize that .me is fun for personal use as social things like facebook or myspace is growing and a .me page is welcome.

There are some other questions and answer but couldn't write all here will take pages, globally we domainers are in a "BUBBLE" :imho:

 

[Jaco]

Domaining has been a rapidly inflating "bubble" since 2003. It hasn't fully popped yet- it's started hissing a bit- but it will blow once large portfolio holders face liquidity pressures and the rabble who follow them start the exodus... and just like all bubbles that pop, the names that have legitimate, durable value will continue on while the "tulips" will return to the earth as rotting carcasses.

It's no different than baseball cards, presold Florida tract housing, certain types of art and collectibles- anything that is manically purchased and solely reliant on the presence of a bigger idiot in order to sustain a market is destined to fail- yet people endlessly fall into these traps, time and time and time and time again.

The capacity to rationally assess the presence of durable value is probably the most simple-yet-scarce skills there is; be it in conventional investing, domain buying or choosing what neighborhood to buy ones house, the ability to objectively recognize value by way of configurally hashing out the quantitative and qualitative "value metrics" and putting together the puzzle is what keeps certain people out of manias, while the inability to assemble this puzzle is what creates mania prone rabble... I'm convinced that whatever cerebral skill-set is required to objectively asses value is entirely innate- you cannot "learn" it. It's something you're either born with, or not- the vast majority of people falling squarely in the "not" camp.

Right now, the domain industry is 10% value, 90% mania. The 90% are the deluded ones who've convinced themselves that they're in the 10%, while the 10% are worried about what sort of impact the 90% will have on their legitimately valuable portfolios when the music stops and there aren't enough chairs left to go around...

Me? I absolutely cannot wait for the fires to engulf everything and start burning down the whole domain world. I'm sitting squarely on the sidelines, with as much dry powder as possible, waiting to pick off whatever "business relevant" remnants can be recovered from the ashes. I'm trimming my portfolio down to the bares- I've even started preemptively deleting the bottom 5% of my portfolio.

 

[steveteva]

So why should icann release more and more tlds in future when end users and website visitors don't seems to like it? I think the domain industry is making money from us (Domainers) not from end users, I might be wrong but that's how I see when conduct my "discussion with students".
Just 1 Domainer can have a portfolio of 500 min for a new tld and I suppose that there are hundreds worldwide that do have these kind of portfolio. Plus ten thousands having small portfolios or just less than 5 new tld domains. That's a big business for icann and registrars. Please understand that "Bubble" is like been in a community, trading domain names is only with domainers even where gig money is spent (sedo, private auction, live auction...) there is only less than 5 percent of all domain sold goes to a end user with real developing project in mind.

 

[Jaco]

Well, the whole ICANN/TLD debate really doesn't have much do to with it.
Unlimited and/or vanity TLD's are an entirely 'different' thing. Some people are too shortsighted to see it and think this will "BE ANOTHER .BIZ!!!", but whatever.... If ICANN does what it appears they're going to do, this *could*be a very meaningful shift in paradigm, as far as the way entities are identified on the web, but that happening is largely contingent on the costs associated with securing ones own TLD.

Furthermore, the number of names registered has a lot to do with the fact that the names most people own are absolute crap. Go read the appraisal forum sometime and see the names people are "excited" about buying.. There are tens- maybe even hundreds- of thousands of people, just like that, pumping money in Bob Parsons pocket, fabricating pointless name after pointless name. New TLDs theoretically open up new keyword channels, where the "viable 10%" of keywords are again made available, only on a different TLD platform. That ICANN ignores the fact that .com (and in some cases, ccTLD's) is/are god and any other gTLD is immeasurably inferior has a lot to do with their operating in the intellectual vacuum; where "theory" is given just as much value as actual substance.

 

[Kate]

So did you ask students what they think of domainers ?

 

[steveteva]

So did you ask students what they think of domainers ?

No but what I did understand from what we talk is that we are like hobbist same as classic car collector, we buy, sale domains, build portfolio, drop when see it's crap or sell for less than reg fee.... some make big money and are serious but this is less than 1% of us (I'm not even in LOL) and all others (I'm in) are making money then loosing then make again.... Because some are really involve in it (almost pro) they sell like something they paid $2000 to a domainer for $2500 or more but re-invest that money in portfolio renewal, reg more or buy other expensive domains in hope of another sale. It's very addictive.

 

[enlytend]

I think the domain industry is making money from us (Domainers) not from end users,

You've got THAT right! :bingo:

 

[InsanerDomainer]

Love that insight regarding foto vs photo. That makes so much sense in a counter-intuitive or even perverse way.

 

[yandig]

It's nice that their first response wasn't that domainers are a pack of greedy cybersquatting wolves. This tends to be the default response from those who don't know about the industry. Forums like Namepros are a great place for the "good" domainers to gather, and hopefully encourage others to do likewise.

 

[steveteva]

Sorry I didn't check what foto.com and photo.com were as I talk to student and we took these 2 names as example. So I just type in my url to check if there was adult content or else who never knows and surprise: what we were talking about was true! Foto.com is kodak brand (trusted site) and photo.com was a parked page so I do understand now why branded vs keyword, average joe likes more branded ones and that's why you see TOP 10 famous sites are branded : amazon, ebay, google, yahoo, twitter.....
Is goldmine domain in "brandable" ones vs keyword?

 

[DomainTalker]

Foto.com is kodak brand (trusted site) and photo.com was a parked page so I do understand now why branded vs keyword, average joe likes more branded ones and that's why you see TOP 10 famous sites are branded : amazon, ebay, google, yahoo, twitter.

Is goldmine domain in "brandable" ones vs keyword?

Well, there it is...

The Foto.com site is a useful source of info, whilst (the better domain) Photo.com is only a parked page.....So, the word gets around, and, in this case, the 'lesser' term is preferred by those interested in photography-related stuff...


Premium keywords will always be potentially more of a goldmine - either as a straight re-sale, or, as a truly well-developed site...

...But, anything (even nonsense terms) can be branded for goldmine success - with a concept that offers people what they want + great promotion (eg google, facebook, twitter, et al).

...and, on the same basis, successfully branded regardless of extension, too...

.

 

[Archangel]

Answer: Money. That's the answer to everything business-wise, it seems. It SHOULDN'T be but many ppl make it out to be.

So why should icann release more and more tlds in future when end users and website visitors don't seems to like it?

 

[andr69]

HI! Thanks a lot for sharing with us this explanation cause sometimes it is really hard to give the proper meaning of this ot that abbreviation. I am not surprised that so many students had no clue what did you talk about although most of them face these stuff (words and meanings) every second day beind in the net! Go on this way and share if you have something worth paying attention!

 

[obiwankenobi]

Listen And Learn

Personally, I find it interesting that the discussion title is "The ugly side of domaining", there's much to be learned from this end user survey in which we can put into practice.

Thank you for sharing, it's enlightening.

Dan
eDomaining

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. Sir Winston Churchill

 

[elius]

foto is the dutch spelling of photo so it's not just a typo and it explains the fact that there's a site on it. It is a keyword but for a limited market.
I assume that your students didn't know this is a valid spelling in some language(s) so in that sense the conclusion still stands.
Apperantly they are trained not to trust keyword domains by visiting them and finding parked pages too often.

 

[Name Trader]

Very insightful Steve. Thanks for sharing.

 

[steveteva]

It's the paradox while we (domainers) all making money out of "keywords" domains, end users and big companies prefer "brandable" ones.
Take a look on some famous marketing books and you'll see pages on "brandings" and how they are so important.

So while we still stick on reging, selling, buying, trading : domainnamekeywords.com, .net....., on the other side of the bubble they trust on brands.

This is part of Google keyword suggestion tool, where every domainers diggs into it and try to find a gem. So keyword is easier to put a website on top and best ranked in search engines for us (with seo and great domain of course) or trade (buy, sell, auction...) compare to big companies with big marketing budget so we are not so wrong with keyword domains.

 

[HuntingMoon]

Godaddy has really popularized buying domains in the U.S. with their TV commercials and sponsorships, so you would probably encounter a lot of people here that don't know what domaining is but they know what Godaddy does. the media is catching on and running more and more stories about the business, so more people should be attracted to the industry.

 

[obiwankenobi]

end users and big companies prefer "brandable" ones.
Take a look on some famous marketing books and you'll see pages on "brandings" and how they are so important.

While this is somewhat true, companies understand how generic keyword domains can strengthen their brand.

 

[gemstar]

I agree.. For years the generic key words have been held hostage using slap on mini sites just as a pay per click ad with no real content at all..If you think about it the majority of the net is owned by several people IE .com's with little or no content to the public.The new generation have grew up with this and are annoyed. New ideas and slangs will dominate the net in the future. If Adsense closed down for individual sites then the majority of large domain holders will eventually have to let go of the names they have.8^X