The religious discussion thread

[Archangel]

This thread was created to bring a local new story to light, which can be viewed below:

JACKSON, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio school district decided Tuesday night to keep a portrait of Jesus hanging in the school where it's been 65 years, denying a federal lawsuit's claim the portrait's display unconstitutionally promotes religion in a public school.

The Jackson City Schools board offered a constitutional justification of its own in voting 4-0 to keep the portrait up in its middle school, saying it must protect students' free speech rights. The vote drew cheers and applause from the dozens of people gathered in the elementary school gymnasium.

Read all of it here: http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-school-b...xzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0A1Rlc3RfQUZD;_ylv=3

I posted his here @ NP to see what ppl had to say on the issue. As it turns out, this sparked many debates. I've considered closing this thread but after multiple suggestions, I decided to keep it open. Feel free to join in the topics but per forum rules, please refrain from obscene, threatening, rude, or insulting posts.

 

[verbster]

How is it that with all the religious teachings about the evils of money, those teachings have been clearly ignored by so many?

 

[GILSAN]

How is it that with all the religious teachings about the evils of money, those teachings have been clearly ignored by so many?

Could it be because "money" has become a religion itself?

 

[GILSAN]

Want to know where the Rape capital of Europe is located? Believe it or not,,, it's Sweden... where Political Correctness has gone completely insane

And then Liberals scratch their heads in disbelief, wandering why extremist right wing parties have become more and more popular throughout Europe

 

[verbster]

Could it be because "money" has become a religion itself?

Not sure about that, but if true, it means the Bad Guy is winning the war by offering the material things money brings in exchange for the accumulation (and worship) of riches. That's the definition of temptation. And since money and wealth are specifically warned against by the Bible, it adds up to lots of lost souls.

What I find even more interesting are the lengths mega rich evangelists will stoop to in order to justify their diamond pinky rings and $3000 suits by saying stuff like, "God has been good to me." To justify their violation of the Word of God, they act like they are an exception to those rules, and seem to feel no sense of hypocrisy or wrongdoing when making up God's support for their transgressions . . . and they'll look you right in the eye as the do it.

 

[RogueWriter]

General Rule: Public schools may not teach religion, although teaching about religion in a secular context is permitted.

One can't remove religion from schools. Why was America founded? Who was Cromwell and what was his beef? What was the holocaust about? What about the Crusades? Who was Calvin? Why was he important? Who was Luther? Henry the 8th? Discuss the growth of the Medici family without using religion?

What about China and its policies? Toward Tibet? What about Turkey and its relationship to Iraq? What about Israel? Why was it created? How? How can we discuss peace issues?

If you make no attempt to study religion then history, literary studies and the arts are a waste of time.

The constitutionalist view is archaic outdated and should have been dumped in the 18th century. America is one of the most modernized countries in the world with people that lean on the most anachronistic principles ever devised.

Rather than taking the brilliance of the founding fathers (some of them truly were) and constantly striving to improve we look back to some ancient principles as the be all end all and do nothing but stifle.

Can you imagine a 21 st century business looking at its 17th century founders for guidance?

The US needs a upgrade of its boardroom.

I agree with most of your post, religious studies is an excellent historical focus, and it is quite easy to study in a secular manner. As for updating the constitution, which is the idea I am getting from the last half of your post, I view the constitution as a bit of a firewall. As long as it's principles remain unmodified, individualism is protected. Once that is shredded, once you say, hey the constitution should be subject to the day's fad, that's the day that freedom dies, worldwide. Oh, there will be a generation or two of kicking and screaming, but for the most part, we then live in a world controlled by unrestrained, unmitigated governmental power. Because it's not just your great ideas that will be used to replace the constitution. It's the ideas put forth by big business and big government that will be used in the update, because they have the money, the weapons, the resources, the network of influence, the power.

 

[GILSAN]

Not sure about that, but if true, it means the Bad Guy is winning the war by offering the material things money brings in exchange for the accumulation (and worship) of riches. That's the definition of temptation. And since money and wealth are specifically warned against by the Bible, it adds up to lots of lost souls.

What I find even more interesting are the lengths mega rich evangelists will stoop to in order to justify their diamond pinky rings and $3000 suits by saying stuff like, "God has been good to me." To justify their violation of the Word of God, they act like they are an exception to those rules, and seem to feel no sense of hypocrisy or wrongdoing when making up God's support for their transgressions . . . and they'll look you right in the eye as the do it.

The Bad Guys are definitely winning. Mega Rich Evangelists? LOL... you mean Mega Rich Capitalists. They are nothing more than greedy Capitalists that take advantage of Religion to fill their Bank accounts with the money from the dumb lost souls that they managed to convert or should I say, brainwash. That's not what real religion is about.

 

[verbster]

Certain aspects of religion might be easy to study in a secular manner, but I don't think science has an adequate explanation for faith yet.

The problem with the constitution as a firewall is the U.S. Supreme Court. Their rulings are much the same as (transitional) amendments, maybe even more powerful at times because their rulings are of compliance and have a direct effect on us (and often on much of the world) as soon as the gavel drops.

Ah, yes. . . a few people have (or control) most of the money . . . money = power, and power often corrupts . . . makes a fine TV series.

 

[DU]

Want to know where the Rape capital of Europe is located? Believe it or not,,, it's Sweden... where Political Correctness has gone completely insane

Comparing statistics on crimes that have a different criteria across geographies will always allow for flexible interpretations (aka misrepresentation of fact aka lies).

 

[DU]

I agree with most of your post, religious studies is an excellent historical focus, and it is quite easy to study in a secular manner. As for updating the constitution, which is the idea I am getting from the last half of your post, I view the constitution as a bit of a firewall. As long as it's principles remain unmodified, individualism is protected. Once that is shredded, once you say, hey the constitution should be subject to the day's fad, that's the day that freedom dies, worldwide. Oh, there will be a generation or two of kicking and screaming, but for the most part, we then live in a world controlled by unrestrained, unmitigated governmental power. Because it's not just your great ideas that will be used to replace the constitution. It's the ideas put forth by big business and big government that will be used in the update, because they have the money, the weapons, the resources, the network of influence, the power.

You can't bait me by trying to actually make sense and points. You think this forum is for discussion?

There is a growing trend towards Constitutionalism - or literal interpretation of the original constitution without regard for intent. In addition, there's a growing belief that a judges on the Supreme courts should not bringing into play the subjectivity and the sum of their experience into the decision process.

I don't question a Bill of Rights. I don't question the right to individual freedoms. I don't question some form or checks and balance.

I do question people's expectations of persons who have been in the ground some 300 years.
I do question those who belief that the representative government put in place can adapt with enough integrity for real progress
I question those who continue to fervently hold to the belief that America is and will always be the greatest democracy in the world where only your inability to dream will prevent you from great wealth and fortune.

 

[verbster]

It's a dilemma, isn't it? Kind of like Christianity and the Bible. Do you stand by the words written so long ago, many of them completely irrelevant for the societies of today, or do you amend the words? Who could amend the words without bias either way. And once amended, extremists emerge, not just believing the way it was, but pushing to believe in the old ways by literal interpretation and application . . . and thus it begins.

 

[GILSAN]

Comparing statistics on crimes that have a different criteria across geographies will always allow for flexible interpretations (aka misrepresentation of fact aka lies).

No misrepresentation of these facts in relation to rapes in Sweden. The numbers don't lie and as usual, Liberals want to shut their eyes and ears about this. How does a country like Sweden more than quadruple its rape cases in just 20 years?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/top-5-countries-highest-rates-rape-1434355

Liberals don't want to hear about it, but I'll tell you. Swedish girls and women can thank their stupid Liberal Governments' pathetic immigration policies in allowing anyone into their country without questioning their criminal background. And Liberal Swedes are still in denial.

 

[Kate]

Perhaps the Swedish interpretation of rape is quite broad. At least that's what Assange must be thinking.

 

[DU]

No misrepresentation of these facts in relation to rapes in Sweden. The numbers don't lie and as usual, Liberals want to shut their eyes and ears about this.

Can you please compare the number of "minor rape" cases in Sweden with the number of "minor rape" cases in the UK. Can you also compare the numbers of "major rape" cases in Sweden with those in any European country of your choice.

 

[GILSAN]

Can you please compare the number of "minor rape" cases in Sweden with the number of "minor rape" cases in the UK. Can you also compare the numbers of "major rape" cases in Sweden with those in any European country of your choice.

Compare "minor rape" and "major rape" cases and compare it to the UK? No idea what you are trying to get at?

 

[JB Lions]

No misrepresentation of these facts in relation to rapes in Sweden. The numbers don't lie and as usual, Liberals want to shut their eyes and ears about this. How does a country like Sweden more than quadruple its rape cases in just 20 years?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/top-5-countries-highest-rates-rape-1434355

Liberals don't want to hear about it, but I'll tell you. Swedish girls and women can thank their stupid Liberal Governments' pathetic immigration policies in allowing anyone into their country without questioning their criminal background. And Liberal Swedes are still in denial.

"Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider in 2005, which largely explains the significant increase in the number of reported rapes in the ten-year period of 2004-2013."

"So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

So Muslims widened the legal definition of rape in 2005? Sweden is the only country Muslims immigrate to? Not America or other countries? If rape goes up because Muslims go to your country, rapes should be going up in other countries as well? Or Muslims just like Swedish women better or something?

I was checking the stats for the United States, since we have 6-7 million Muslims. Figured, based in Gilsan's reasoning, the 2 biggest states will have the most Muslims:

per 100k
50. South Dakota - 70.2 - According to a 2001 survey, 86% of South Dakotans described themselves as being members of a Christian denomination, while 8% said that they were not religious and 3% claimed faith in a non-Christian religion.

51. Alaska - 79.7
Christian - 79.0%
Islam - 0.5%

 

[DU]

Compare "minor rape" and "major rape" cases and compare it to the UK? No idea what you are trying to get at?

That rape laws in Sweden <> rape laws in UK or other countries and therefore unadjusted numbers make no sense.
You don't have a control by which you adjust to get a "common" definition.

In the US, for example, rape has different laws by states. In New York, no means no. In other states I heard you need to prove force and not just lack of consent. I am not really knowledgeable of this area of the law so I may be mistaken on this but I do know that blanket / generalized statements are usually in existence to justify some position that can't be defended using more reasoned arguments.

 

[GILSAN]

In the US, for example, rape has different laws by states. In New York, no means no. In other states I heard you need to prove force and not just lack of consent.

Why are you guys bringing in the US into this argument? Sweden has ONE law for the whole country, NOT many different laws like you say the US has.

Must be a huge coincidence then, that rapes increased fourfold during the period of Sweden's open-door immigration policy from mostly Muslim countries.

So according to you guys, it must be the Christians that are doing most of the raping there.

 

[DU]

I heard that there has been a huge drop in imprisonment rates for drug possession in Portugal since 2001.

Must be a result of the natural warming of the earth over that same period.

 

[JB Lions]

Why are you guys bringing in the US into this argument? Sweden has ONE law for the whole country, NOT many different laws like you say the US has.

Must be a huge coincidence then, that rapes increased fourfold during the period of Sweden's open-door immigration policy from mostly Muslim countries.

So according to you guys, it must be the Christians that are doing most of the raping there.

Literally just went over that in my prior post as to the likely reason why. I noticed you're not addressing that part at all.

 

[GILSAN]

I heard that there has been a huge drop in imprisonment rates for drug possession in Portugal since 2001.

Must be a result of the natural warming of the earth over that same period.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/27/us-sweden-riots-idUSBRE94Q0E620130527

The huge increase in riots, where many youths torched cars and threw stones at Swedish police and rescue services, probably has an explanation.

Must be a result of the natural warming of the earth over that same period. You know what it's like... when the weather starts warming up, it's time to go on a rampage.