The religious discussion thread

[Archangel]

This thread was created to bring a local new story to light, which can be viewed below:

JACKSON, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio school district decided Tuesday night to keep a portrait of Jesus hanging in the school where it's been 65 years, denying a federal lawsuit's claim the portrait's display unconstitutionally promotes religion in a public school.

The Jackson City Schools board offered a constitutional justification of its own in voting 4-0 to keep the portrait up in its middle school, saying it must protect students' free speech rights. The vote drew cheers and applause from the dozens of people gathered in the elementary school gymnasium.

Read all of it here: http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-school-b...xzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0A1Rlc3RfQUZD;_ylv=3

I posted his here @ NP to see what ppl had to say on the issue. As it turns out, this sparked many debates. I've considered closing this thread but after multiple suggestions, I decided to keep it open. Feel free to join in the topics but per forum rules, please refrain from obscene, threatening, rude, or insulting posts.

 

[Archangel]

Another, indeed. But it's a GOP thing, so I'm not surprised.

Glad that God-hating Fred is gone though. He'll fit in with Hitler and Osama well.

Another loon.

But - Anti-gay pastor Fred Phelps Sr. dies

http://news.msn.com/obits/anti-gay-pastor-fred-phelps-sr-dies?ocid=twmsn

 

[Archangel]

Good point: Do good because you WANT to, not because you are told to

Atheism rules. We live moral, wholesome lives because it's the right thing to do, not because we might get a reward after we die :loveyou:

 

[Keith]

Atheism rules. We live moral, wholesome lives because it's the right thing to do, not because we might get a reward after we die :loveyou:

 

[Keith]

Good point: Do good because you WANT to, not because you are told to

Lol you quoted the post before it posted. Funny stuff

 

[Archangel]

I'm not quite sure how it happened. lol

Lol you quoted the post before it posted. Funny stuff

 

[verbster]

It must be a sign . . .

 

[GILSAN]

Mamma Mia... Sister Cristina really rocks.

Now if we could get her to do a duet with Papa Francesco... that would be really cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpaQYSd75Ak

 

[verbster]

Been too quiet here for too long . . . .

The latest Supreme Court case on religious rights Vs birth control got me to thinking about religious rights for gays and how a determination of gay-by- genetics or gay-by-choice might differ . . . which got me thinking about the genetics option of not having a choice. And since babies don't have a choice in genetic makeup or being born (but do get coddled and coo’d and treated just like other non-gay babies), it made me wonder why people with issues with gays don’t also have a problem with the heterosexuals that produce them. And since there is historical evidence (biblical, nonetheless) that gays have been around as long as history has been recorded, that means the genetic disposition of gays has also been around since the beginning . . . and if you consider this a genetic "abnormality," it follows that the Supreme Being either made a mistake or did it on purpose, and since He doesn't make mistakes, it must have been on purpose, which means gays aren't a mistake, as they are in His likeness.

 

[verbster]

The flood gates are open. Trinity Church is suing Wal-Mart because they are supposedly selling items that Trinity Church considers immoral, like weapons with 10 round-plus magazines and sexually charged music. So now religion is trying to dictate what morality is acceptable and what products stores can sell. Where will it end? Try to tell a church what they can preach or what politics they support and see how they react! Pretty soon internal temperatures will reach the boiling point.

 

[GILSAN]

The flood gates are open. Trinity Church is suing Wal-Mart because they are supposedly selling items that Trinity Church considers immoral, like weapons with 10 round-plus magazines and sexually charged music. So now religion is trying to dictate what morality is acceptable and what products stores can sell. Where will it end? Try to tell a church what they can preach or what politics they support and see how they react! Pretty soon internal temperatures will reach the boiling point.

So, what else is new? I thought that suing everyone and anyone for anything and everything was the American way of doing things.

 

[verbster]

So, what else is new? I thought that suing everyone and anyone for anything and everything was the American way of doing things.

Hell, yes! I'm going to stop off at the nearest Drive-through "Sue & Coffee" stand this morning to get an espresso and file a suit against the guy in my office who wore brown shoes with black pants yesterday. The nerve of that guy. Disrupted the whole business day.

Hmmm...while I'm there, might as well file a punitive against the Trinity Church leadership for being assholes in general. Yup, think I'll call it the "God Complex" suit, or maybe
"I'm More Righteous Than You'll Ever Be". I'll petition the court for a year of mouths covered by duct tape, 'cause, you know, Alaskans and duct tape have this thing going on . . . .

 

[GILSAN]

Hell, yes! I'm going to stop off at the nearest Drive-through "Sue & Coffee" stand this morning to get an espresso and file a suit against the guy in my office who wore brown shoes with black pants yesterday. The nerve of that guy. Disrupted the whole business day.

Hmmm...while I'm there, might as well file a punitive against the Trinity Church leadership for being assholes in general. Yup, think I'll call it the "God Complex" suit, or maybe
"I'm More Righteous Than You'll Ever Be". I'll petition the court for a year of mouths covered by duct tape, 'cause, you know, Alaskans and duct tape have this thing going on . . . .

Good luck with all the suits you are filing. While you're at it, why don't you file one against the Religion of Peace as well. After all it was their followers that killed almost 3000 innocent people (Americans and many other nationalities) in 9-11. They have also killed hundreds of innocent people in bomb attacks in Europe and thousands world wide.

Every time you hop on a plane, don't forget to hit them hard with a suit, because of all the security hassles you have to go through after 9-11.

If you take a cruise, the story is the same. Want me to carry on? I have dozens of examples, if you want

The whole world has been affected by them. I used to be able visit the Port of Funchal (where I live) https://www.google.pt/search?rlz=1C...0.0....0...1c.1.39.img..0.15.1618.fZjVqvQ8efA to see the cruise ships that visit us everyday, at a close range.

Now I have to go through security checks to get into the port area and even then I can no longer get very close, thanks to the Religion of Peace... not the Trinity Church

 

[verbster]

Good luck with all the suits you are filing. While you're at it, why don't you file one against the Religion of Peace as well. After all it was their followers that killed almost 3000 innocent people (Americans and many other nationalities) in 9-11. They have also killed hundreds of innocent people in bomb attacks in Europe and thousands world wide.

Every time you hop on a plane, don't forget to hit them hard with a suit, because of all the security hassles you have to go through after 9-11.

If you take a cruise, the story is the same. Want me to carry on? I have dozens of examples, if you want

The whole world has been affected by them. I used to be able visit the Port of Funchal (where I live) https://www.google.pt/search?rlz=1C...0.0....0...1c.1.39.img..0.15.1618.fZjVqvQ8efA to see the cruise ships that visit us everyday, at a close range.

Now I have to go through security checks to get into the port area and even then I can no longer get very close, thanks to the Religion of Peace... not the Trinity Church

But . . . but . . . Trinity doesn’t want me to buy an assault weapon! How am I ever going to defend myself from members of the “religion of peace” when they come knocking on my door after I file a lawsuit asking them to turn it down a bit? The next thing you know, the morality police will be having Fahrenheit 451 parties in the street, burning all music except insipid religious rock and torching “his and hers boom-boom lubricating gel” because it promotes sex without procreation. To which Trinity will push for amendment 28, No Frivolous Sex Allowed! All birth control will be abolished since any and all sex will be only for making babies, and the NSA will invent satellite sex sensors with facial ID to monitor sex pairings. Unmarried sex and adultery is automatic death—a condom will be stretched over the condemned heads until dead by suffocation. Not surprisingly, marriages quadruple, and the birth rate skyrockets, which in turn bumps up the number of attorneys, which bumps up the number of lawsuits against this kind of invasive assault on liberty, which makes all Americans happy . . . except those not having sex . . . and those who used to be able to substitute firing assault weapons for sex.

 

[GILSAN]

But . . . but . . . Trinity doesn’t want me to buy an assault weapon! How am I ever going to defend myself from members of the “religion of peace” when they come knocking on my door after I file a lawsuit asking them to turn it down a bit? The next thing you know, the morality police will be having Fahrenheit 451 parties in the street, burning all music except insipid religious rock and torching “his and hers boom-boom lubricating gel” because it promotes sex without procreation. To which Trinity will push for amendment 28, No Frivolous Sex Allowed! All birth control will be abolished since any and all sex will be only for making babies, and the NSA will invent satellite sex sensors with facial ID to monitor sex pairings. Unmarried sex and adultery is automatic death—a condom will be stretched over the condemned heads until dead by suffocation. Not surprisingly, marriages quadruple, and the birth rate skyrockets, which in turn bumps up the number of attorneys, which bumps up the number of lawsuits against this kind of invasive assault on liberty, which makes all Americans happy . . . except those not having sex . . . and those who used to be able to substitute firing assault weapons for sex.

:O WOW.... I got to admit it...you sure have a pretty impressive and fertile imagination. You should make a Hollywood movie on the above apocalyptic scenario if by chance Wal-Mart were forced to stop selling 10 round-plus magazines and sexually charged music, along with all the dramatic consequences that would bring to society.

That would have all the gory ingredients of becoming a hit movie.

How dare the Trinity Church even think of such evil thoughts

Yes I'm sure you'd have a hard time defending yourself from members of the "Religion of Peace" with only 9 round magazines bought at Wal-Mart. But then you could always go buy 10 round-plus magazines and sexually charged music which apparently you can't live without, elsewhere. Yes I can understand your frustration.

I have the perfect solution to your problem. Ban the Trinity Church

 

[verbster]

Can't even joke around a bit, huh? Okay. No more smiling or laughing . . . ever.

And no banning of anyone, religious or otherwise. That takes no imagination at all.

 

[verbster]

How is it that with all the religious teachings about the evils of money, those teachings have been clearly ignored by so many?

 

[GILSAN]

How is it that with all the religious teachings about the evils of money, those teachings have been clearly ignored by so many?

Could it be because "money" has become a religion itself?

 

[GILSAN]

Want to know where the Rape capital of Europe is located? Believe it or not,,, it's Sweden... where Political Correctness has gone completely insane

And then Liberals scratch their heads in disbelief, wandering why extremist right wing parties have become more and more popular throughout Europe

 

[verbster]

Could it be because "money" has become a religion itself?

Not sure about that, but if true, it means the Bad Guy is winning the war by offering the material things money brings in exchange for the accumulation (and worship) of riches. That's the definition of temptation. And since money and wealth are specifically warned against by the Bible, it adds up to lots of lost souls.

What I find even more interesting are the lengths mega rich evangelists will stoop to in order to justify their diamond pinky rings and $3000 suits by saying stuff like, "God has been good to me." To justify their violation of the Word of God, they act like they are an exception to those rules, and seem to feel no sense of hypocrisy or wrongdoing when making up God's support for their transgressions . . . and they'll look you right in the eye as the do it.

 

[RogueWriter]

General Rule: Public schools may not teach religion, although teaching about religion in a secular context is permitted.

One can't remove religion from schools. Why was America founded? Who was Cromwell and what was his beef? What was the holocaust about? What about the Crusades? Who was Calvin? Why was he important? Who was Luther? Henry the 8th? Discuss the growth of the Medici family without using religion?

What about China and its policies? Toward Tibet? What about Turkey and its relationship to Iraq? What about Israel? Why was it created? How? How can we discuss peace issues?

If you make no attempt to study religion then history, literary studies and the arts are a waste of time.

The constitutionalist view is archaic outdated and should have been dumped in the 18th century. America is one of the most modernized countries in the world with people that lean on the most anachronistic principles ever devised.

Rather than taking the brilliance of the founding fathers (some of them truly were) and constantly striving to improve we look back to some ancient principles as the be all end all and do nothing but stifle.

Can you imagine a 21 st century business looking at its 17th century founders for guidance?

The US needs a upgrade of its boardroom.

I agree with most of your post, religious studies is an excellent historical focus, and it is quite easy to study in a secular manner. As for updating the constitution, which is the idea I am getting from the last half of your post, I view the constitution as a bit of a firewall. As long as it's principles remain unmodified, individualism is protected. Once that is shredded, once you say, hey the constitution should be subject to the day's fad, that's the day that freedom dies, worldwide. Oh, there will be a generation or two of kicking and screaming, but for the most part, we then live in a world controlled by unrestrained, unmitigated governmental power. Because it's not just your great ideas that will be used to replace the constitution. It's the ideas put forth by big business and big government that will be used in the update, because they have the money, the weapons, the resources, the network of influence, the power.

 

[GILSAN]

Not sure about that, but if true, it means the Bad Guy is winning the war by offering the material things money brings in exchange for the accumulation (and worship) of riches. That's the definition of temptation. And since money and wealth are specifically warned against by the Bible, it adds up to lots of lost souls.

What I find even more interesting are the lengths mega rich evangelists will stoop to in order to justify their diamond pinky rings and $3000 suits by saying stuff like, "God has been good to me." To justify their violation of the Word of God, they act like they are an exception to those rules, and seem to feel no sense of hypocrisy or wrongdoing when making up God's support for their transgressions . . . and they'll look you right in the eye as the do it.

The Bad Guys are definitely winning. Mega Rich Evangelists? LOL... you mean Mega Rich Capitalists. They are nothing more than greedy Capitalists that take advantage of Religion to fill their Bank accounts with the money from the dumb lost souls that they managed to convert or should I say, brainwash. That's not what real religion is about.

 

[verbster]

Certain aspects of religion might be easy to study in a secular manner, but I don't think science has an adequate explanation for faith yet.

The problem with the constitution as a firewall is the U.S. Supreme Court. Their rulings are much the same as (transitional) amendments, maybe even more powerful at times because their rulings are of compliance and have a direct effect on us (and often on much of the world) as soon as the gavel drops.

Ah, yes. . . a few people have (or control) most of the money . . . money = power, and power often corrupts . . . makes a fine TV series.

 

[DU]

Want to know where the Rape capital of Europe is located? Believe it or not,,, it's Sweden... where Political Correctness has gone completely insane

Comparing statistics on crimes that have a different criteria across geographies will always allow for flexible interpretations (aka misrepresentation of fact aka lies).

 

[DU]

I agree with most of your post, religious studies is an excellent historical focus, and it is quite easy to study in a secular manner. As for updating the constitution, which is the idea I am getting from the last half of your post, I view the constitution as a bit of a firewall. As long as it's principles remain unmodified, individualism is protected. Once that is shredded, once you say, hey the constitution should be subject to the day's fad, that's the day that freedom dies, worldwide. Oh, there will be a generation or two of kicking and screaming, but for the most part, we then live in a world controlled by unrestrained, unmitigated governmental power. Because it's not just your great ideas that will be used to replace the constitution. It's the ideas put forth by big business and big government that will be used in the update, because they have the money, the weapons, the resources, the network of influence, the power.

You can't bait me by trying to actually make sense and points. You think this forum is for discussion?

There is a growing trend towards Constitutionalism - or literal interpretation of the original constitution without regard for intent. In addition, there's a growing belief that a judges on the Supreme courts should not bringing into play the subjectivity and the sum of their experience into the decision process.

I don't question a Bill of Rights. I don't question the right to individual freedoms. I don't question some form or checks and balance.

I do question people's expectations of persons who have been in the ground some 300 years.
I do question those who belief that the representative government put in place can adapt with enough integrity for real progress
I question those who continue to fervently hold to the belief that America is and will always be the greatest democracy in the world where only your inability to dream will prevent you from great wealth and fortune.

 

[verbster]

It's a dilemma, isn't it? Kind of like Christianity and the Bible. Do you stand by the words written so long ago, many of them completely irrelevant for the societies of today, or do you amend the words? Who could amend the words without bias either way. And once amended, extremists emerge, not just believing the way it was, but pushing to believe in the old ways by literal interpretation and application . . . and thus it begins.