The "I hate gTLD's" thread

[McDuke]

Tired of annoying web extensions?

Wish it was a .com only world?

Feeling negative, cynical, grumpy, or you just want to join the fun?

Well here is the place for you.

The I Hate gTLD's Thread​

 

[Kate]

I don't really understand the excitement because these names are nothing more than domain hacks for the most part. The novelty will quickly fade away.
Sales to end users... forget the idea. It's already hard enough to sell good .com.

And I think there is a lack of research exemplified in the showcase threads, people buy domain keyword.tld when keywordtld.com is still available.

What we have now is more opportunities for domainers to gamble and lose money.
So don't be so quick to depict skeptics as 'haters'

 

[verbster]

I don't really understand the excitement because these names are nothing more than domain hacks for the most part. The novelty will quickly fade away.
Sales to end users... forget the idea. It's already hard enough to sell good .com.

And I think there is a lack of research exemplified in the showcase threads, people buy domain keyword.tld when keywordtld.com is still available.

What we have now is more opportunities for domainers to gamble and lose money.
So don't be so quick to depict skeptics as 'haters'

Hmmm...there will always be excitement for new domains, if for no other reason than the possibility of quick flips. Even mobi made some money in the first month for quite a few folks. The difference now is that with mobi only a few new extensions were on the market at the same time, not 50 or a few hundred, and that's a huge factor. It's like introducing 100 new brands of cars at the same time. It disturbs the normality of buying and selling . . . which some are willing to bet their money is a good thing. However, in a month or three, after the new smell wears off, things will end up slightly better than mobi, but not by much, and as always, the fat cats end up with the best domains.

 

[scandiman]

Well stated!!!! nTLDs are not going to make bank for domainers.
There will be some D2D sales, but the enduser interested in dev has too many options out there to pay a premium price.

But... good luck to those investing. Keep in mind, some people promoting these have their own agenda, as we all do.

Peace,
Cy

As I first read here from mjnels, the registries are the new domainers.

 

[mjnels]

I don't really understand the excitement because these names are nothing more than domain hacks for the most part. The novelty will quickly fade away.
Sales to end users... forget the idea. It's already hard enough to sell good .com.

And I think there is a lack of research exemplified in the showcase threads, people buy domain keyword.tld when keywordtld.com is still available.

What we have now is more opportunities for domainers to gamble and lose money.
So don't be so quick to depict skeptics as 'haters'

domainers losing money is shit happening in the meantime - oh well.

"just" domain hacks you say? novelty? well, when there is an endless combination and thats kinda cool. it wasnt like that before and they're real domain hacks. there wernt very many real domain hacks available before compared to this. it may fade away for domainers but they're not going away and theres no time limit for them to "gain traction." as long as the registry survives financially they can sit there 20 years, get reg'd by domainers, drop 5 times, etc.. domainers can try to set arbitrary time limits and keep track of registration #'s but it means little as long as they remain in existence.

you guys are smarter than this. even if this thing was successful as hell its silly to think end users are watching this as close as people on this forum. people saying the registration #'s are small i disagree.. registries are paying off their $185k fee in the first year. you cant do that buying a .com domain - pay it off within a few weeks/months even a year by relying on type in traffic.. c'mon now. this business model aint for dough mainers but it looks like its working for the registries...

 

[scandiman]

domainers losing money is shit happening in the meantime - oh well.

"just" domain hacks you say? novelty? well, when there is an endless combination and thats kinda cool. it wasnt like that before and they're real domain hacks. there wernt very many real domain hacks available before compared to this. it may fade away for domainers but they're not going away and theres no time limit for them to "gain traction." as long as the registry survives financially they can sit there 20 years, get reg'd be domainers, drop 5 times, etc.. domainers can try to set arbitrary time limits and keep track of registration #'s but it means little as long as they remain in existence.

That's the part I still wonder about, few answers to reasonable questions about how to measure financial viability and if ICANN will assure the future existence of all the TLDs they approve.

 

[mjnels]

That's the part I still wonder about, few answers to reasonable questions about how to measure financial viability and if ICANN will assure the future existence of all the TLDs they approve.

it seems like theres so much going on right now nobody is paying attention to that.. its weird because im thinking if there were like maybe only 50 TLD's being released this would be a bigger topic of discussion but since there is over 1,000 everyone interested in talking about this is overwhelmed..

im assuming other registries already managing 100+ TLD's could gobble them up for 1 penny.. but im just assuming this and dont really know for sure. im trying to think why it would cost anymore money just to manage another TLD file for a company like donuts.co... but then i guess theres the TLD's that got approved as closed registries or with some other business model than open registration..

 

[Jasonn]

domainers losing money is shit happening in the meantime - oh well.

"just" domain hacks you say? novelty? well, when there is an endless combination and thats kinda cool. it wasnt like that before and they're real domain hacks. there wernt very many real domain hacks available before compared to this. it may fade away for domainers but they're not going away and theres no time limit for them to "gain traction." as long as the registry survives financially they can sit there 20 years, get reg'd by domainers, drop 5 times, etc.. domainers can try to set arbitrary time limits and keep track of registration #'s but it means little as long as they remain in existence.

you guys are smarter than this. even if this thing was successful as hell its silly to think end users are watching this as close as people on this forum. people saying the registration #'s are small i disagree.. registries are paying off their $185k fee in the first year. you cant do that buying a .com domain - pay it off within a few weeks/months even a year by relying on type in traffic.. c'mon now. this business model aint for dough mainers but it looks like its working for the registries...

you don't make your living selling domains, do you?

 

[scandiman]

it seems like theres so much going on right now nobody is paying attention to that.. its weird because im thinking if there were like maybe only 50 TLD's being released this would be a bigger topic of discussion but since there is over 1,000 everyone interested in talking about this is overwhelmed..

im assuming other registries already managing 100+ TLD's could gobble them up for 1 penny.. but im just assuming this and dont really know for sure. im trying to think why it would cost anymore money just to manage another TLD file for a company like donuts.co... but then i guess theres the TLD's that got approved as closed registries or with some other business model than open registration..

Yea, lots of questions and few answers. Any business ca be mismanaged so the reg numbers don't tell the whole story, mTLD was in trouble at a million registrations. DotTravel went broke and was acquired, now we'll most certainly see more. Economies of scale help no doubt, owning 10 tlds will have lower overhead per tld than owning one. But ultimately for us gnats riding the elephants, what will ICANN do to protect our interest as registrants in the ecosystem they have created? Absent a clear statement of intent the answer is nothing,

 

[Kenny]

you don't make your living selling domains, do you?

Popcorn time

Peace,
Cy

 

[mjnels]

you don't make your living selling domains, do you?

the registries do.

 

[Jasonn]

the registries do.

my point is that its easy to have a 'oh well, they're just website addresses' attitude when you have nothing riding on it. people like myself who do rely 100% on income from selling domains are trying to figure out what to change (if anything) with the introduction of these new gtlds. Do i spend thousands on them and take the risk knowing i probably won't be able to sell them for a good profit for a number of years, if ever? do i avoid them altogether and risk possibly missing out on what might be valuable in the future? its hard to say but how i provide for my family rides on it.

 

[equity78]

I think that's the problem with the back and forth, some of the stuff MJ is saying is not wrong, but its not what people here are interested in, the purpose for discussion here about domain names is how to make money as domain investor/ developer, what will be good for the registry is an important conversation, but not in 100 threads.

Someone who has a kiosk in their local shopping mall cares about the traffic and can they make money each month, someone telling them don't worry the company that owns the mall, they are doing great, cashflow is through the roof does not help pay their bills. If the mall operator were in trouble that would be a concern, because the kiosk owner may have to find a new place if the mall closed, but shy of that on a day to day basis their focus is can they sell their product at their kiosk. its a micro concern, not a macro.

So it just seems you are really a tld hobbyist, you don't make a living or even a decent part time income buying and selling domains, you just like to discuss the naming system changing with people who are making or trying to make an income with domain names. There is nothing wrong with conversation but I would say we just have new threads develop every few days saying the same thing.

So the net is changing by offering more choice, ok, everything is changing, most people are concerned in their business or career how to earn a living based on those changes, how to increase profit and reduce risk, not just have a philosophical conversation.


Scandiman to answer your question, ICANN has put in place the EBERO program

An important innovation of the New gTLD Program, the establishment of emergency back-end registry operators, or EBEROs, mitigates risks to the stability and security of the Domain Name System in the event a new TLD operator fails.

Emergency back-end registry operators are temporarily activated if a TLD registry operator is at risk of failing to sustain the five critical registry functions. These functions are:

DNS resolution for registered domain names
Operation of Shared Registration System
Operation of Whois service
Registry data escrow deposits
Maintenance of a properly signed zone in accordance with DNSSEC requirements

EBEROs are limited in the services they can provide. For example, EBEROs will not provide any additional services that a TLD operator may have offered its customers, such as web hosting or network analytics.

The currently contracted organizations met stringent technical requirements and demonstrated years of experience in operating domain name services, registration data directory services and extensible provisioning protocol services.

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registries/ebero

I have also been told there are plenty of Vulture funds sitting on the sidelines, people who did not apply for an extension but let's say not that I am wishing them failure, but Dot Luxury coming out $799 to register and renewals $799, All registries had to put up 3 years working capital so after that they cannot make money, and want out, Another registry like Donuts could come in and pick it up and if more than one wants it, there would possibly be an auction to the highest bidder.

 

[mjnels]

my point is that its easy to have a 'oh well, they're just website addresses' attitude when you have nothing riding on it. people like myself who do rely 100% on income from selling domains are trying to figure out what to change (if anything) with the introduction of these new gtlds. Do i spend thousands on them and take the risk knowing i probably won't be able to sell them for a good profit for a number of years, if ever? do i avoid them altogether and risk possibly missing out on what might be valuable in the future? its hard to say but how i provide for my family rides on it.

i may have you confused with someone else but not too long ago wernt you being a bit more dismissive of them?

anyway, you sound like you're being honest with yourself about them.. at least thinking about em. my comments are directed more at people laughing at these and being 100% dismissive with "domainer high five" statements like "LOL these will fade away by next year, right guys! yeaaaaah" and stuff like that. these are feel-good statements people are telling themselves and i think if most domainers on this forum could push a button and make gTLD go away they would.

 

[equity78]

Oh I agree these are not going anywhere and to look at registration numbers right now is too early. I would say what will be the top 10 new gtlds have not even come on the market yet. The available names now are very niche, the real names are yet to come imo, I think WEB,SHOP,APP, MEDIA,NYC, LONDON,Music will have much better registration numbers.

 

[mjnels]

I think that's the problem with the back and forth, some of the stuff MJ is saying is not wrong, but its not what people here are interested in, the purpose for discussion here about domain names is how to make money as domain investor/ developer, what will be good for the registry is an important conversation, but not in 100 threads.

you're right, people are trying to figure out how to make money with them but they're trying to connect the dots ALL THE TIME to things that are completely separate issues...

ohhhh hey look this TLD only has 2,000 registrations.. so what? what does any of this mean for a domainer? that you should look for the ones with highest reg counts and "invest" in that one?

well, .mobi still has a million registrations... its completely irrelevant and separate and thats what im saying a lot of the time. during these early conversations people are desperately looking for a way that these will either be super successful (so dont miss out, hurry, get in now!) or a way they're going to completely fall by the wayside and get ignored by everyone in the future.

there is an in between and that conversation isnt really taking place... but the conversation IS evolving. just look a year ago when it was announced ICANN received 1,900 applications for new TLD's the kind of things people were saying... very simple "slogan-like" statements. "these are all doomed" blah blah blah etc.,.. it was 100% feel-good talk and gloom and doom..

 

[JB Lions]

ohhhh hey look this TLD only has 2,000 registrations.. so what? what does any of this mean for a domainer? that you should look for the ones with highest reg counts and "invest" in that one?

Yes, there's truth in that, it's what you don't get. It's been gone over many times.

Higher reg numbers mean more chance for development, actual usage, more chance the public becomes familiar with it. Now does that help increase or decrease the value? Which are the most valuable today? Do they have low or high reg numbers compared to the ones that aren't so valuable? Not sure why this is hard for some people to grasp.

For domainers, these are horrible investments not only because of low demand, evidenced by numbers but the fact that if end users want second rate extensions, they don't need your second rate extension, they have many more second rate extension options.

mj, how many have you "invested" in so far?

Oh I agree these are not going anywhere and to look at registration numbers right now is too early.

It's not too early. You see some literally in single digits some days, tattoo had like 2 and something like 6. Do you think those numbers are somehow going to increase? knowing:

good keywords are available early, not later

the numbers for new releases tend to be higher in the beginning, not later.

.mobi, .me, .co etc. The most regs happen early. So if they're not selling good now, they're not going to sell good later.

 

[mjnels]

Yes, there's truth in that, it's what you don't get. It's been gone over many times.

Higher reg numbers mean more chance for development, actual usage, more chance the public becomes familiar with it. Now does that help increase or decrease the value? Which are the most valuable today? Do they have low or high reg numbers compared to the ones that aren't so valuable? Not sure why this is hard for some people to grasp.

highest reg numbers do NOT mean more chance for development. you're pulling that out of thin air.

how valuable is .mobi with over 1,000,000 registrations? its in the top 10 most registered TLD's and it means absolutely nothing. so there goes that theory...

IF the public is going to become familiar with gTLD it will probably be as a whole... it will be becoming comfortable with something.something as DU pointed out earlier.

mj, how many have you "invested" in so far?

zero.

i have some "gTLD" from before "new gTLD" came out like .travel and .pro but i havnt bought any from this batch of new gTLD's because with how flooded it is i think prices will get cheaper.

i think they're a bad investment for domainers - especially right now during the hype stage so im staying away.

 

[JB Lions]

highest reg numbers do NOT mean more chance for development. you're pulling that out of thin air.

Of course it does. It's like you failed basic math.

If there were 100 ping pong balls and 1 of them was worth 1 million dollars, the other 99 worth nothing.

Person A - could pick 90 balls

Person B - could pick 10 balls

Which person has the better chance? I can't believe we're discussing this.

how valuable is .mobi with over 1,000,000 registrations? its in the top 10 most registered TLD's and it means absolutely nothing. so there goes that theory...

.mobi was never meant to be anybody's main site. It was the only one out at the time, had the spotlight all to itself. The numbers are now dropping.

zero.

Figured as much. A pro new-gtld guy with 0 regs. The truth lies in where you put your money at. You know there are actually newbies on this forum saying the same nonsense you've been posting? Keep up the good work, keep em occupied.

 

[mjnels]

Of course it does. It's like you failed basic math.

If there were 100 ping pong balls and 1 of them was worth 1 million dollars, the other 99 worth nothing.

Person A - could pick 90 balls

Person B - could pick 10 balls

Which person has the better chance? I can't believe we're discussing this.

that doesnt make any sense and fails to take into consideration the # that is registered by domainers.

if there are 1,000,000 registrations... lets take .mobi for example... and 990,000 of them are held by domainers - how in the world does that give them "a better chance for development"

it doesnt. simple reg numbers dont mean anything for a "better chance of development" nothing!

 

[JB Lions]

that doesnt make any sense and fails to take into consideration the # that is registered by domainers.

if there are 1,000,000 registrations... lets take .mobi for example... and 990,000 of them are held by domainers - how in the world does that give them "a better chance for development"

it doesnt. simple reg numbers dont mean anything for a "better chance of development" nothing!

I literally just went over that in my last post, even put it in bold for you.

And I've learned basic math doesn't make sense to you, odds escape you.

 

[mjnels]

I literally just went over that in my last post, even put it in bold for you.

you can "go over" as much as you like but you're still wrong.

registration numbers do not offer a "better chance for development." period. its completely separate things. you're trying to connect stuff that isnt connected. domainers holding 90% of a registry doesnt offer a "better chance for development"

Figured as much. A pro new-gtld guy with 0 regs. The truth lies in where you put your money at. You know there are actually newbies on this forum saying the same nonsense you've been posting? Keep up the good work, keep em occupied.

right, and if i had registered some you would have some other bitter response.

you're impossible to have a conversation with.

 

[JB Lions]

I'm not wrong, .mobi wasn't meant to to be used for somebody's main site.

And this domainers and 90%, as if domainers don't get into everything.

Again, I get it, you don't get basic math. So if .web gets a few million, .tattoo with a couple of thousand regs. me saying .web has a better chance of development and getting out into the public, you would actually argue against it.

 

[Ms Domainer]

Uber Cybersquatter in the New gTLDs

*

Fasten your seat belts, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

The Domains reports on a squatter, fresh out of California, who regged some obvious TMs in .email:

http://www.thedomains.com/2014/03/2...s-up-espn-pepsi-starbucks-chevrolet-nfl-more/​

I posted this in the "hater" thread because this seems to be the ugly underbelly of the new gTLDs.

*

 

[scandiman]

I think that's the problem with the back and forth, some of the stuff MJ is saying is not wrong, but its not what people here are interested in, the purpose for discussion here about domain names is how to make money as domain investor/ developer, what will be good for the registry is an important conversation, but not in 100 threads.

Someone who has a kiosk in their local shopping mall cares about the traffic and can they make money each month, someone telling them don't worry the company that owns the mall, they are doing great, cashflow is through the roof does not help pay their bills. If the mall operator were in trouble that would be a concern, because the kiosk owner may have to find a new place if the mall closed, but shy of that on a day to day basis their focus is can they sell their product at their kiosk. its a micro concern, not a macro.

So it just seems you are really a tld hobbyist, you don't make a living or even a decent part time income buying and selling domains, you just like to discuss the naming system changing with people who are making or trying to make an income with domain names. There is nothing wrong with conversation but I would say we just have new threads develop every few days saying the same thing.

So the net is changing by offering more choice, ok, everything is changing, most people are concerned in their business or career how to earn a living based on those changes, how to increase profit and reduce risk, not just have a philosophical conversation.


Scandiman to answer your question, ICANN has put in place the EBERO program

An important innovation of the New gTLD Program, the establishment of emergency back-end registry operators, or EBEROs, mitigates risks to the stability and security of the Domain Name System in the event a new TLD operator fails.

Emergency back-end registry operators are temporarily activated if a TLD registry operator is at risk of failing to sustain the five critical registry functions. These functions are:

DNS resolution for registered domain names
Operation of Shared Registration System
Operation of Whois service
Registry data escrow deposits
Maintenance of a properly signed zone in accordance with DNSSEC requirements

EBEROs are limited in the services they can provide. For example, EBEROs will not provide any additional services that a TLD operator may have offered its customers, such as web hosting or network analytics.

The currently contracted organizations met stringent technical requirements and demonstrated years of experience in operating domain name services, registration data directory services and extensible provisioning protocol services.

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registries/ebero

I have also been told there are plenty of Vulture funds sitting on the sidelines, people who did not apply for an extension but let's say not that I am wishing them failure, but Dot Luxury coming out $799 to register and renewals $799, All registries had to put up 3 years working capital so after that they cannot make money, and want out, Another registry like Donuts could come in and pick it up and if more than one wants it, there would possibly be an auction to the highest bidder.

Thanks for the info, very helpful

 

[urlurl]

The last thing I want to do as a developer is to market the stupid extension as much as the name of the company.

"Go with dot com and you can go no wrong"
-David P-