question Site Take Down Request

[MKS Vent]

I received an email from iZOOlogic requesting site take down for infringement. The site in question is only an Efty landing page. Anyone else run into this?
Domain is deutschebitcoinbank
Thanks,

 

[branding]

Like others have stated, "Deutsche" is a very generic term in German. I don't think it's obvious trademark infringement but I can see DB's point of view.

Even if you are entitled to own this domain the question you have to ask yourself is this: Is it worth the hassle? Battles like this are hard and time consuming. They have a big team of lawyers with more than sufficiant funds to take you on. What do you have?

 

[Silentptnr]

Based on the thread title, they have only asked that you take down the site. So do that only.

 

[frank-germany]

As Deutsche is a made up word (not sure) and hence the bank may win.

made up?

yes by the germans

and it means:

german

 

[IMEZI]

i guess it because your domain contain deutschebit bank which is a trade mark

 

[wwwweb]

Thanks for the replies.
The only triggering factor is the landing page, no infringement for owning the domain name.
IMEZI, that's the plan with this one and a few others i have.
Plan for now is to remove the landing page.

Where did you go to law school?

They don’t know what your doing with the domain behind the scenes, spoofing clients info sending bitcoins to Nigeria, you have a lot to learn.

 

[premkumar]

If its not madeup name then no problem, to my knowledge "deutsch" mean German language not sure about "e" at the end.

I think in that case, its not trademark violation, 1000s of companies use the country name in their name, even companies in same field use the country name. Like Indian Bank, Indian overseas bank, Bank of India, State Bank of india etc

 

[hwgriffi]

I would say that you are fine ..

Deutsche is not at all a made up word .. it means "German" in German
Bank is also Bank in German
ADDED: If Bitcoin is also Bitcoin in German (which I suspect) then the 3 facts combined really help your case in that it makes the domain a generic keyword domain (in German).

ADDED: If it wasn't the case, and languages were mixed than I'd say it was more of a brandable .. which in this specific case, ironically, I don't think would have been as good for you (although not necessarily enough to change a final opinion)

With a ultra generic name like "German Bank" they have to live with other people using legitimate similar names. German Bitcoin Bank is a keyword domain and I would think most would say that it looks suspicious .. but if it's a German Bitcoin Bank .. then there is complete legitimate use of the term.

All that being said .. you need to be extremely careful .. make sure you don't have ads running on the site that could be confused with their bank.

Clearing you even more would be if they aren't doing anything with Bitcoin .. or if you registered/bought the domain before they started doing something with Bitcoin.

Another important point is that Bitcoin itself isn't owned by anyone (the guy who made it disappeared) .. so I'm not even sure to what extent other trademarks can be based on and/or contain the word "Bitcoin"?

Definitely get some legal advice .. if it was me (remember .. I am NOT a lawyer .. lol) .. I'd write them back and state in a round about way that the clear interpretation of this domain is not related to what they are doing and that it is clearly a generic set of words unrelated to them .. and ask them for the specific legal and technical reasons they think they have right to the domain.

A lot would hinge on the specific wording of what they sent you. You might be able to get better advice if you posted the original email (take out all names .. and take out the URL itself or space it out so that google does not find this discussion).

ADDED: Obviously at the end of the day .. a final judgement depends on a judge .. and even if you are in the right .. a decision could be made against you .. or the other way around as well.

Agreed.

Also use the domain. Put up a BTC faucet or your intent to launch a "bitcoin bank". This thread is now the public information, so if a laywer researches this domain this thread will appear. Beware of that.

Non-use is going to be your biggest issue here because the DN does contain their TM and you were offering it for sale on Efty.

Panel now just needs to show you had no good faith use, and nothing says 'no use' like a generic GoDaddy landing page.

Good luck.

 

[Chris Wright]

In light of ADR decisions against morganstanleybitcoin.com, tdbankbitcoin.com and capitalonebitcoin.com by 3 different panels I like DB's chances here.

These cases are informative, but don't have the plot twist of the DB case.

Morgan Stanley Bank ~ Arbitrary Mark.
TD Bank ~ Arbitrary Mark.
Capital One ~ Suggestive Mark.

None of these could be considered a Generic Term.

"Deutsche Bank" is a generic term ("German Bank"), that has become established as a trademark.

This was likely accomplished by their commercial usage of the term (1870) before the existence of German trademarking (1894).

If it were founded in 1970, it would probably never be considered for trademark.

It would be very hard to find case history that parallels this situation.

Anyway, I agree with Ategy. This name is probably not worth whatever risk it carries.

 

[wwwweb]

Yes others have experienced issues like this and public records show Deutsche Bank batting 1.000 when they escalate take down requests to WIPO complaints. WIPO case D2012-2028 is an example. Good luck!

Thanks for sharing this, most of the people commenting here against it are talking out of their ass, and did not even bother to read the findings made by the panel which shows a strong response to DB’s rights, very hard to argue, or establish anything against it. It was a slam dunk case.

Type in DB.com, and see where it takes you.

You can’t really tell these bottom feeders anything different, as they try to profit a few bucks off the established marks of Fortune 500 companies, giving all domainers a bad name.

 

[Chris Wright]

Disclaimer: This post is for the presentation of information ONLY. This post is NOT advice, legal or otherwise.

In the case linked below, the complainant's entire trademark is contained within the respondent's domain (EddieBauerCamping·com).

https://dnattorney.com/dn-resources/eddie-bauer-v-coles-sales-solutions/

Surprising quotes from the ruling:

"Registration alone does not necessarily constitute an act of infringement..."

"A trademark does not give the mark owner an unlimited exclusive right to use the name. There are many uses available to other parties, including non-commercial and non-competing uses."

"Since Complainant's mark does not appear to extend to that class of services, this use does not appear to be fall within the exclusive jurisdiction of Complainant's mark."

Again this is information, NOT advice.
People PLEASE do not play the fool's game and use this information as a license to infringe trademarks!

 

[Ategy]

Disclaimer: This post is for the presentation of information ONLY. This post is NOT advice, legal or otherwise.

In the case linked below, the complainant's entire trademark is contained within the respondent's domain (EddieBauerCamping·com).

https://dnattorney.com/dn-resources/eddie-bauer-v-coles-sales-solutions/

Surprising quotes from the ruling:

"Registration alone does not necessarily constitute an act of infringement..."

"A trademark does not give the mark owner an unlimited exclusive right to use the name. There are many uses available to other parties, including non-commercial and non-competing uses."

"Since Complainant's mark does not appear to extend to that class of services, this use does not appear to be fall within the exclusive jurisdiction of Complainant's mark."

Again this is information, NOT advice.
People PLEASE do not play the fool's game and use this information as a license to infringe trademarks!

Without taking too much time looking into it .. legally or not .. on ethical grounds .. I personally don't like people using other people's full names with the exception of very limited and specific (mainly with historical / dead people .. and some contexts of political commentary/opinions). This domain is VERY different from the DB case in context. In fact .. the specific reason is because the context of the Deutsche bitcoin domain separates Deutsche Bank into two separate words with uniquely and separate justifiable usage.

EddieBauerCamping does not even separate Eddie and Bauer (not that even doing that alone would make this domain ethical IMO) .. and much MUCH more importantly .. neither name actually is a generic dictionary word.

From a legal point of view you can use full names as a trademark as long as it is unrelated to what someone with that name is doing .. but I'm not a big fan of that fact. There was a discussion on this somewhere in the forum a few months ago ...

 

[wwwweb]

WRONG, not off the marks of established companies.

Clearly you are not profitable, if you are going down such dark roads, and looking for justification from a forum. You registered this 4 days ago, you joined this forum yesterday, clearly you are clueless.

The fact you have responded will now give them fuel to show your intent is live, and active, they will either give you a threat of the actions they are willing to take to protect their brand, and most likely you will fold like a cheap suit, even though you will deny it, fast forward a few months, this one will be with DB.

 

[MKS Vent]

Because i joined a forum 4 days ago to ask a simple question i'm considered clueless? That's ignorant logic. What was your purpose for joining the forum? For the record i'm not seeking justification from a forum.
Regards,

 

[MapleDots]

Bitcoinbank is different from Bank

I could run a DeutsceDairyBank and they could not ask for my domain either.

Bitcoin was never part of the original Banking Terminology so I don't thing Deutsche Bank can lay claim to it. The argument they do have is that it is a financial domain and again I think it's a stretch.

 

[frank-germany]

I would say that you are fine ..

Deutsche is not at all a made up word .. it means "German" in German
Bank is also Bank in German
ADDED: If Bitcoin is also Bitcoin in German (which I suspect) then the 3 facts combined really help your case in that it makes the domain a generic keyword domain (in German)

agreed

but still stupid to keep that domain

unless you are establishing a bitcoin whatever bank
for germans or by germans

who would be your buyer?
can you park it?
deutsche bank won't buy it for sure
and they won't rename or name themself that way

 

[CryptoInvestor]

Late to the party, but as someone who did the same dumb crap, i’d honestly say you will not get the living crap sued out of you. However, you reg’d it in bad faith like the others said, your intent was to gain something off of someone elses name, don’t be a dick, take it down.

If their TM is worldwide and exact to what your domain is, than the jig is up. If not, you have a fighting chance.

I recieved a similar email from a UK company claiming they were going to take the domain legally if I didn’t give it to them. A quick search shows that none of their legal BS exists in the US (where I live) so I was able to confidently reply with a doubled price, and some attitude.

In your case, just give it up and get some new names

 

[Michael Ehrhardt]

Deutsche bitcoin bank is generic

 

[yjann]

Drop that domain name and move on. You will never win this battle. Especially, not against a bank with a team of lawyers and unlimited resources. They probably have an entire department dedicated to going after TM violators.

Sad but true, although I don't see anything infringing with the domain itself. As @Chris Wright states correctly 'Deutsche' as well as 'Bank' are simply German dictionary words and only the term "Deutsche Bank" is protected. Besides that there are several "Bitcoin Bank" trademarks pending, maybe have a look towards them as well as it doesn't have to be necessarily the DB AG. Either way I wouldn't take the risk for that name. Cheers.

 

[korganian]

The only results on the first 3 pages of Google search for "Deutsche" are "Deutsche Bank", so I think you might be fighting a losing battle on that one.

 

[IMEZI]

if i own the domain, i would keep renewing and keep very low waiting for db(dot)com launching their bitcoin related services and BOOOMMM it will struck gold :D

 

[Galaxy Traveller]

As Deutsche is a made up word (not sure) and hence the bank may win.

 

[MKS Vent]

Thanks again for the info

 

[Corey]

Always best to conduct a Trademark search plus request this thread to be relocated to

Legal Discussion Thread

Online legal issues, domain disputes, trademark and copyright law.

Cheers
Corey

 

[DNWon]

As Bruno Mars likes to say:

This domain name DeutscheBitcoinBank is UDRPing in Finesse!