Dominion.Domains

Site Take Down Request

Labeled as question in Legal Discussion started by MKS Vent, Apr 18, 2018.

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  1. MKS Vent

    MKS Vent Established Member

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    I received an email from iZOOlogic requesting site take down for infringement. The site in question is only an Efty landing page. Anyone else run into this?
    Domain is deutschebitcoinbank
    Thanks,
     
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  2. IMEZI

    IMEZI Active Member VIP

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    i guess it because your domain contain deutschebit bank which is a trade mark
     
  3. Chris Wright

    Chris Wright MERGE 2018 VIP

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    I have not had this problem (yet).
    It appears that a brand / trademark protector has noticed the words "deutsche" and "bank" within your domain.
    It doesn't cost them much to fire off an email. And it justifies their client fees.
    But does "German Bitcoin Bank" infringe on their client's trademarks?
    You'd need to ask a lawyer about that.
    My amateur opinion is no, it does not.
    They might be hoping to get your domain for free.
    IANAL - ask a lawyer.
     
  4. korganian

    korganian Active Member VIP

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    The only results on the first 3 pages of Google search for "Deutsche" are "Deutsche Bank", so I think you might be fighting a losing battle on that one.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  5. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    That is a very large player, and that is a blatant TM violation.
     
  6. IMEZI

    IMEZI Active Member VIP

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    if i own the domain, i would keep renewing and keep very low waiting for db(dot)com launching their bitcoin related services and BOOOMMM it will struck gold :D
     
  7. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    Very big investment bank, that is a udrp in the works.

    You do realize they can hold you liable for $100k, do you own your own home?
     
  8. Galaxy Traveller

    Galaxy Traveller Established Member

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    As Deutsche is a made up word (not sure) and hence the bank may win.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  9. MKS Vent

    MKS Vent Established Member

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    Thanks for the replies.
    The only triggering factor is the landing page, no infringement for owning the domain name.
    IMEZI, that's the plan with this one and a few others i have.
    Plan for now is to remove the landing page.
     
  10. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    Where did you go to law school?

    They don’t know what your doing with the domain behind the scenes, spoofing clients info sending bitcoins to Nigeria, you have a lot to learn.
     
  11. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    Great advice here lol

    Deutsche Bank AG is a German investment bank and financial services company, with its headquarters in the Deutsche Bank Twin Towers in Frankfurt. It has more than 100,000 employees
     
  12. urlurl

    urlurl Active Member VIP

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    landing page or not, you shouldn't hold or buy any obvious TM names or trade marked names within a name
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  13. Ategy.com

    Ategy.com NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    I would say that you are fine ..

    Deutsche is not at all a made up word .. it means "German" in German
    Bank is also Bank in German
    ADDED: If Bitcoin is also Bitcoin in German (which I suspect) then the 3 facts combined really help your case in that it makes the domain a generic keyword domain (in German).

    ADDED: If it wasn't the case, and languages were mixed than I'd say it was more of a brandable .. which in this specific case, ironically, I don't think would have been as good for you (although not necessarily enough to change a final opinion)

    With a ultra generic name like "German Bank" they have to live with other people using legitimate similar names. German Bitcoin Bank is a keyword domain and I would think most would say that it looks suspicious .. but if it's a German Bitcoin Bank .. then there is complete legitimate use of the term.

    All that being said .. you need to be extremely careful .. make sure you don't have ads running on the site that could be confused with their bank.

    Clearing you even more would be if they aren't doing anything with Bitcoin .. or if you registered/bought the domain before they started doing something with Bitcoin.

    Another important point is that Bitcoin itself isn't owned by anyone (the guy who made it disappeared) .. so I'm not even sure to what extent other trademarks can be based on and/or contain the word "Bitcoin"?

    Definitely get some legal advice .. if it was me (remember .. I am NOT a lawyer .. lol) .. I'd write them back and state in a round about way that the clear interpretation of this domain is not related to what they are doing and that it is clearly a generic set of words unrelated to them .. and ask them for the specific legal and technical reasons they think they have right to the domain.

    A lot would hinge on the specific wording of what they sent you. You might be able to get better advice if you posted the original email (take out all names .. and take out the URL itself or space it out so that google does not find this discussion).

    ADDED: Obviously at the end of the day .. a final judgement depends on a judge .. and even if you are in the right .. a decision could be made against you .. or the other way around as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  14. MKS Vent

    MKS Vent Established Member

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    Thanks again for the info
     
  15. premkumar

    premkumar Established Member

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    If its not madeup name then no problem, to my knowledge "deutsch" mean German language not sure about "e" at the end.

    I think in that case, its not trademark violation, 1000s of companies use the country name in their name, even companies in same field use the country name. Like Indian Bank, Indian overseas bank, Bank of India, State Bank of india etc
     
  16. hwgriffi

    hwgriffi Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Agreed.

    Also use the domain. Put up a BTC faucet or your intent to launch a "bitcoin bank". This thread is now the public information, so if a laywer researches this domain this thread will appear. Beware of that.

    Non-use is going to be your biggest issue here because the DN does contain their TM and you were offering it for sale on Efty.

    Panel now just needs to show you had no good faith use, and nothing says 'no use' like a generic GoDaddy landing page.

    Good luck.
     
  17. Chris Wright

    Chris Wright MERGE 2018 VIP

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    This is exactly the strategy that could lose the domain in a UDRP. (Bad Faith)
    Thanks Captain Obvious!!!
    By your logic, I cannot own AppleFarmJuices.com.
    It is actually a generic keyword domain.
    I wouldn't write them. That's just stirring the s**t pot.
    Many people who are in the right lose anyway. Look at the Nissan.com story.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  18. Rich

    Rich Upgraded Member Blue Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Not yet *knocks on wood*
    I would probably delete the domain if they didn't want to take it over. Not worth the problems they can bring you.
     
  19. MKS Vent

    MKS Vent Established Member

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    wwwweb, Chris Wright and others. We are all here for one thing and that's to help one another. This post was in no way for "legal advice" it was simply to determine if anyone else experienced an issue like this. We all have different levels of domain knowledge and everyone's input is welcome. I understand non of us are legal experts and any information given should be from experience.
    Thanks again for all the input.
     
  20. Smiles76

    Smiles76 Established Member

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    Drop that domain name and move on. You will never win this battle. Especially, not against a bank with a team of lawyers and unlimited resources. They probably have an entire department dedicated to going after TM violators.
     
  21. ecalc

    ecalc Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes others have experienced issues like this and public records show Deutsche Bank batting 1.000 when they escalate take down requests to WIPO complaints. WIPO case D2012-2028 is an example. Good luck!
     
  22. Ategy.com

    Ategy.com NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    Just took a peek at your link .. That case involves "deutschebankindia.com" .. which I would see as a clear trademark violation because it implies "Deusche Bank" in "India". I actually agree with that decision.

    Just because they.ve won 100% of their cases that went to a panel does not mean that they are right about this case .. in fact .. they have likely been wrong before but the "defendant" just gave up or didn't contest (as in this case). I really don't think they have a valid claim here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  23. Corey

    Corey Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  24. ecalc

    ecalc Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  25. Ategy.com

    Ategy.com NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    If it were DeutscheBankBitcoin I would 100% agree with you .. or possibly if it wasn't an actually Country name I might have said there was bad faith involved (like MorganBitcoinStanley to me would be a red flag for bad faith) .. but in this case it is a country name being used .. as such the paramaters under which DB "should" be allowed to make claims is much narrower.

    In the end there is potential danger if a judge incorrectly sees "Bank" and "BitcoinBank" as being the same thing. I see this claim being just as valid as "German Bank" filing a TM lawsuit against "GermanFoodBank.com".

    Trademark laws can be fairly finicky from my personal understanding. Trademarks are not as broad as most think .. the trademark here is "Deusche Bank" in it's entirety ... the bank in no way can lay claims to anything else just because it includes either word on their own. In this case the domain does indeed contain both words .. but not together .. and in this specific case .. the words are used as their separate unique meanings .. not the collective meaning of "Deusche Bank".

    I actually have issues with trademarks like "Deusche Bank" depending on the structure of the language. I can't be 100% because I don't speak German .. but let's say it was the same as English for "German Bank" .. then allowing a TM on "German Bank" might or might not hinder the ability of another bank to claim they were "The first German Bank" .. regardless as to if they were actually the first bank in Germany or not.

    I personally also don't like Geo Trademarks because they can lead to confusion with actual government services and mislead people. Like TaxCanada could be interpreted as being Revenue Canada (government's tax department) .. but that's another matter for another discussion on another day .. lol.


    Anyhow .. at the end of the day there certainly is some risk here depending on the lingual interpretation of who is judging the case .. and quite frankly the actual domain just might not be even worth the time and energy to defend as I don't really see anyone actually buying the domain for any significant amount.


    Also .. remember that all my comments are limited to my assumption the lingual context of this domain is similar to what the English equivalent is. "German Bitcoin Bank" is natural English .. if "Deusche Bitcoin Bank" isn't natural language flow in German then it no longer has the relative safety of being a generic.


     

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