Sicko - Sad But Oh So True

[MillersCrossing]

As a brit living in the US and having contracted a lung disorder here, I am pretty much qualified to say that Michael Moore's movie is a pretty accurate description of the awful state of affairs with the healthcare system in the USA.

Powerful documentary, yes there was some propoganda too, but overall, extremely moving....a must see

 

[antman]

Will see soon. Apparently it's rated well over here in Aust.

America doesn't seem to like Michael Moore :td:

 

[MillersCrossing]

Will see soon. Apparently it's rated well over here in Aust.

America doesn't seem to like Michael Moore :td:

The old adage "the truth hurts" comes to mind.....

I didn't particularly care for the guy and almost walked out the theatre when I went to see Farenheight 9/11....but all that has changed with this movie....

America needs to wake up to the awful truth that kicking people out of intensive care units cause they dont have insurance, or having to choose which one of two fingers that got cut off in an accident to be sewn back on, cause the insurance would only cover one finger....is totally unacceptable.....

To me Michael comes across as .....trying to change America and make it a better place, that is not anti american, some people just like shooting the messanger

 

[deet]

America doesn't seem to like Michael Moore

Actually, I would say he has many fans here!

.

 

[ApeXX]

Actually, I would say he has many fans here!

.

And twice as many people that absolutely loathe him.

 

[labrocca]

As a brit living in the US and having contracted a lung disorder here, I am pretty much qualified to say that Michael Moore's movie is a pretty accurate description of the awful state of affairs with the healthcare system in the USA.

Powerful documentary, yes there was some propoganda too, but overall, extremely moving....a must see

And in the UK how many years would you be on the waiting list before you got treated properly? Would you be dead before they can get to you is the real question.

 

[MillersCrossing]

And in the UK how many years would you be on the waiting list before you got treated properly? Would you be dead before they can get to you is the real question.

Good question. And one that was addressed in the movie. There are waiting lists indeed as there are in any country with universal health care...but for essential and emergency operations, I have yet to hear one horror story and I spent 30 years living in the UK.

I also needed skin grafting on my leg as a one year old and again as a six year old child on the NHS (national health service). I have no bad memories from my stay there except for missing home...but the doctors treated me as if I had paid for the operations myself.

This is what my dad told me.......

Today, just my medications cost me over $250 a month, then $320 a month for health insurance,(which will expire in 2 years amd then what!!) then co pays cost me about $300 a month on a good month....

In England, my cost would be precisely 0.00 for the above mentioned costs, given that my illness does not allow me to work any more ........I would also be given a free apartment, a free car, and enough money to get by to live with dignity.....

America is doing something very wrong when Cuba gives its citizens, rich and poor and very poor alike the care they need....and America just drops off disorientated elderly women on the curbside of the hospital when they find out she has no insurance...........there is no other way to spin this......

 

[dgridley]

SICKO is available in it's entirety on Google Video, saw it posted on Reddit.

 

[antman]

Watched it, very good doco.

Does it just come down to democracy?

Good discussion thread - good to compare medical systems around the world.

 

[Humdizzy]

Look out Canada or Britain, here I come.

 

[BrewerFan]

Michael Moore likes to exaggerate. Yes, some things he says are true, but he gives you such a narrow viewpoint that you don't get to see the broad spectrum of what is really going on. Let's face it, the health care system isn't one of the things the United States boasts about, however, it isn't as bad as he makes it. It can be, but is not for all people.

 

[Humdizzy]

Michael Moore likes to exaggerate. Yes, some things he says are true, but he gives you such a narrow viewpoint that you don't get to see the broad spectrum of what is really going on. Let's face it, the health care system isn't one of the things the United States boasts about, however, it isn't as bad as he makes it. It can be, but is not for all people.

The only reason it isn't that bad for all people is because not everyone gets gravely sick. If you get really hurt or sick in America with no money, you're pretty much screwed. Sure everyone has a safety net and some people could even be well off, but no one saves up hundreds of thousands of dollars for surgery for something that they have no idea could be coming. Thats the main point of the movie and the only way to get that through to the people who haven't gone through dealing with the very real high cost of being very sick is to exaggerate. Otherwise you'd have a whole bunch of people who would see his movies and go "So what."

 

[Kenny]

The only reason it isn't that bad for all people is because not everyone gets gravely sick. If you get really hurt or sick in America with no money, you're pretty much screwed. Sure everyone has a safety net and some people could even be well off, but no one saves up hundreds of thousands of dollars for surgery for something that they have no idea could be coming. Thats the main point of the movie and the only way to get that through to the people who haven't gone through dealing with the very real high cost of being very sick is to exaggerate. Otherwise you'd have a whole bunch of people who would see his movies and go "So what."

Nice perspective Keenen.
Those that go "so what" have never had to watch in agony the suffering of a loved one because by the time the symptoms were obvious, it was obviously too late to do anything about it.
Americans without Full Coverage Medical Insurance often put off regular checkups, or even live with what they think may be a problem because they simply cannot afford the tests.

So by the time it is diagnosed, it is terminal.

That isnt "so what", thats real.

Call him what you will, his films do make people think.
What they think is another movie entirely.

Cy

 

[Ixix]

Michael Moore likes to exaggerate. Yes, some things he says are true, but he gives you such a narrow viewpoint that you don't get to see the broad spectrum of what is really going on. Let's face it, the health care system isn't one of the things the United States boasts about, however, it isn't as bad as he makes it. It can be, but is not for all people.

i take it we get a broader view point from the health insurance and pharma companies? :yell:

America's supposed to be the richest nation in the world....but it turned out that the powers that be let our Iraqi vets rot in a hell hole of a hospital. Did we forget so soon?

I am one of the unfortunates that cannot afford health insurance due to the fact that I am self employed. It is by the grace of God that nothing has happened to me or my family.

Tell me, what IS the broad spectrum? I want to know. About 3000 Americans died on 9/11. Look at how quick the government responded in offense to the 'threat' on American Lives. Well, Today Americans are dying because they cannot afford health care in this country. According to USA Today, about 18,000 American lose their life EACH YEAR because they can't afford health care, 1 in 7 American Adults don't have health insurances as well as 10 million American children...and those numbers are from 2002, i can't imagine what they are today.

We are sending our troops half way around the world fighting a perceived foreign threat to our national security. American's spent BILLIONS on a losing war. We are brainwashed to fear a terrorist attack on national soil....but what about the reality that Americans have a bigger chance of dying from lack of medical care? What if we spent 1/2 of that time and money fixing the real problems that face this country?

But to be honest, i doubt that we'll see a decent health care system in the US. Special Interests, Greed, Money. That's what makes up our government. They talk about the problem, but nothing changes. But it's not only in government, but in the heart of many citizens. I hear way to many times, 'I worked hard to where I got...why should somebody get a free ride?' or 'It's not fair that my money is going to some chick that couldn't get her life straight and now she has 6 kids....she should have made the right choices' . This country's about 'Me' 'Me' 'Me'.

We're not a nation that takes care of each other. We're a nation that takes care of ourselves.....and it's because of that....that is why universal health care won't work in this country.

Hell, just look at our school system! We suck when compared to other countries.

 

[BrewerFan]

We might be the richest power but we are all self centered and want the best for ourselves, not the nation. Let's face it, you want to succeed in your business and you want to be the one to get paid more. So what if that intern is going to be fired, as long as you get the higher rank. People in America are so self-centered they aren't willing to pay for better health care for the entire nation. In Europe they tax more items, including gas, which people already complain about.

Let's take into consideration the size of the United States also. The only country bigger than us with nice health care is Canada, and their population is quite smaller then our own. It would be an extremely difficult problem to fix. Isn't our whole economy pretty much in the toilet anyways? This, in my opinion, is what happens when you mask peoples "freedom" with big corporation sponsors. The United States is corrupt, just live with it and move on. It is impossible to directly compare countries policies and benefits.

 

[Ixix]

We might be the richest power but we are all self centered and want the best for ourselves, not the nation. Let's face it, you want to succeed in your business and you want to be the one to get paid more. So what if that intern is going to be fired, as long as you get the higher rank. People in America are so self-centered they aren't willing to pay for better health care for the entire nation. In Europe they tax more items, including gas, which people already complain about.

Let's take into consideration the size of the United States also. The only country bigger than us with nice health care is Canada, and their population is quite smaller then our own. It would be an extremely difficult problem to fix. Isn't our whole economy pretty much in the toilet anyways? This, in my opinion, is what happens when you mask peoples "freedom" with big corporation sponsors. The United States is corrupt, just live with it and move on. It is impossible to directly compare countries policies and benefits.

have a little change of heart?

Michael Moore likes to exaggerate. Yes, some things he says are true, but he gives you such a narrow viewpoint that you don't get to see the broad spectrum of what is really going on. Let's face it, the health care system isn't one of the things the United States boasts about, however, it isn't as bad as he makes it. It can be, but is not for all people.

 

[italiandragon]

Once I wanted to lo leave Italy and live in the USA.

Then I did some research on many things and came to the conclusion that there were better places to live in.

In the USA what really matters is money at its best level. It`s not a new thing, it happened since The Wild West.

It will never get better unless all the world we live in will change since USA managed to change the world and get many countries more similar to their standards......it`s globalisation.....and money or power will always make the difference.

 

[ApeXX]

want the best for ourselves.

That is some of what drives a capitalist society and is one of the biggest reasons America is the richest nation today. I'm not saying it's right, it's just how our society works.

 

[CrazyTech]

Actually, it comes down to Americans are blunt. We don't care that the goal for us is a peaceful and prosperous nation involves money. I want to do well, but is it the end-all-be-all for me? Nope.

The thing is, we don't walk around talking about the rest of the world and pretending to care when we don't. There's a reason we give the most financial aid around but we don't run around telling everyone when we do it.

That being said, Moore is a sicko. I've been without insurance. It's tough. I've seen both sides unlike this excuse has. It's bad, but it can be fixed. I'm not 100% proud of our system, but I sure as hell don't care for socialized medicine. The lines are long enough as is, and they already tax half of what I make.

I come from America. My parents and greatgrandparents aren't rich. In fact, they were dirt poor and many of them have had medical care after medical care including an amputated arm. They made it. It must not be too bad.

Free care an emergency room for a cold...yeah that's just terrible. I guess we should socialize it all and put Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton in control. The same Hillary that went running and screaming away the first time.

America is where it is because it has always been can do people. That seems to be changing, now we feel we're entitled to it all. America got away from England the first time and managed to become quite successful yet we're going to take their arguably lackluster universal system and not learn our lesson? Not me.

 

[Ixix]

That is some of what drives a capitalist society and is one of the biggest reasons America is the richest nation today. I'm not saying it's right, it's just how our society works.

i think there has to be a balance. i think there USED TO BE a balance. i think that one of the values of early America was 'love thy neighboor'.

but we are cutting off our nose to spite our face on these 'small' issues. America might be the richest nation...is it the strongest? The fiasco with hurricane Katrina tells me that we are not. You know there's got to be a shift in priority when a government mounts a war to protect 'their interests' but fails it's citizens when in need.

Actually, it comes down to Americans are blunt. We don't care that the goal for us is a peaceful and prosperous nation involves money. I want to do well, but is it the end-all-be-all for me? Nope.

The thing is, we don't walk around talking about the rest of the world and pretending to care when we don't. There's a reason we give the most financial aid around but we don't run around telling everyone when we do it.

That being said, Moore is a sicko. I've been without insurance. It's tough. I've seen both sides unlike this excuse has. It's bad, but it can be fixed. I'm not 100% proud of our system, but I sure as hell don't care for socialized medicine. The lines are long enough as is, and they already tax half of what I make.

I come from America. My parents and greatgrandparents aren't rich. In fact, they were dirt poor and many of them have had medical care after medical care including an amputated arm. They made it. It must not be too bad.

Free care an emergency room for a cold...yeah that's just terrible. I guess we should socialize it all and put Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton in control. The same Hillary that went running and screaming away the first time.

America is where it is because it has always been can do people. That seems to be changing, now we feel we're entitled to it all. America got away from England the first time and managed to become quite successful yet we're going to take their arguably lackluster universal system and not learn our lesson? Not me.

America today is different than America at it's birth. While your family made it without insurance, there are many that don't. Medical care should never be a privelege.

Bravo to you that you have the strength to turn medical care away when you are sick because of your inability to afford health insurance. However, others may not be as strong as you, and see their loved ones struggle with an illness that they cannot afford to cure. Need i remind you that on this very board was a plea for assistance for a young girl with cancer? Should it be that only in America that we beg for medical assistance? And it's not a matter of laziness or wanting 'something for nothing' but when the average salary of a working citizen is 38k...and the cost of medical care exceeds the standard of living, something is very wrong.

But i agree with you in the sense that socialized medicine won't work in the US because there are idiots in office and aren't able to manage our tax dollars effectively....that isn't a failure of socialized medicine, it's a failure on our government.....imo.