Resolved

[Keith]

@Jackson Elsegood
Regarding transaction 4532982 for CBDcity.com for $11,500...

The buyer took possession via push at godaddy and immediately requested that escrow cancel the deal. I’ve provided loads of email verification to escrow to show my position. Meanwhile they are asking me to work with the buyer to get the domain back.

I’ll need to be paid or I will take legal action. My suggestion is that escrow do a little homework to verify the account push. I’ve done too much business with you guys for you to put this back on me. The buyer is a scam artist and I won’t play games!

 

[wwwweb]

Looks like the buyers operate a site called GrassCity.com

 

[xynames]

In this case Escrow.com should hold the money and ask the buyer to push the domain back, no?

Yes. Exactly! Escrow would then freeze the money. And escrow did then ask seller to get the domain back. Escrow would have also asked buyer to return the domain to seller.

Which led to seller’s panic and inaccurate claim here that escrow.com was protecting a thief.

I can relate to seller’s panic but thief protection is not what was going on.

 

[Internet.Domains]

Yes. Exactly! Escrow would then freeze the money. And escrow did then ask seller to get the domain back. Escrow would have also asked buyer to return the domain to seller.

Which led to seller’s panic and inaccurate claim here that escrow.com was protecting a thief.

I can relate to seller’s panic but thief protection is not what was going on.

You should reread the OP. You seem to be missing some key points.

 

[xynames]

Your words, not mine....How's that escrow license helping you now?

When I sell a domain, I sell something that I assume is worth something that the buyer really wants to buy.

If a buyer doesn't want to buy or wants to get out of a deal, he'll find a way.

If what you're saying is that you NEED an escrow service where buyers are trapped into buying because what you're selling is something so bad that your buyers might back out at any time, then okay - stick with what works for you. But I don't think that is what you are saying.

For the normal above board deals, I would rather be protected from escrow insolvency or escrow fraud than from last minute buyer's remorse. Which is why I prefer a licensed bonded escrow. As well the buyers I deal with are end users, and many feel more comfortable with a U.S. licensed bonded escrow.

 

[Internet.Domains]

When I sell a domain, I sell something that I assume is worth something that the buyer really wants to buy.

If a buyer doesn't want to buy or wants to get out of a deal, he'll find a way.

If what you're saying is that you NEED an escrow service where buyers are trapped into buying because what you're selling is something so bad that your buyers might back out at any time, then okay - stick with what works for you. But I don't think that is what you are saying.

For the normal above board deals, I would rather be protected from escrow insolvency or escrow fraud than from last minute buyer's remorse. Which is why I prefer a licensed bonded escrow.

Most legitimate buyers would not take possession of a domain and immediately cancel Escrow. Let's suppose it was buyers remorse and the buyer no longer wanted the domain. The buyer would then inform Escrow and possibly the seller to initiate giving the domain back.......That did not happen in this case. Instead the buyer took possession and immediately tried to cancel Escrow. To add insult to injury, Escrow then expected the seller to get the domain back.

 

[xynames]

You should reread the OP. You seem to be missing some key points.

Cut right through the noise: No one wires five figures in the hopes of getting a free domain. Would you?

Buyer wanted to get out of the deal, who knows why. I don't want to speculate on what whatever he said to seller meant - maybe all it meant was some sort of excuses that sounded better than the simple "buyer's remorse."

To add insult to injury, Escrow then expected the seller to get the domain back.

That's just the way the law works man, you don't like it, jump up and down. Escrows don't get involved in these types of buyer seller disputes.

Put it this way: escrow doesn't have title to the domain, never had title to the domain. So how is it going to "get it back"?

 

[uzver]

Yes. Exactly! Escrow would then freeze the money. And escrow did then ask seller to get the domain back. Escrow would have also asked buyer to return the domain to seller.

I’ve provided loads of email verification to escrow to show my position. Meanwhile they are asking me to work with the buyer to get the domain back.

There is nothing that says Escrow.com assured the seller they will hold the funds until the merchandise is returned. I personally would have panicked too if that was Escrow.com’s exact wording without further details.

 

[Internet.Domains]

Escrows don't get involved in these types of buyer seller disputes.

Oh?....So why have escrow?

 

[Keith]

Put it this way: escrow doesn't have title to the domain, never had title to the domain. So how is it going to "get it back"?

They’re not going to get it back. Since they were the ones who prompted me to transfer, they need to do some homework and then release funds. Once it’s out of my account it’s time to get paid or there will be bigger issues.

And btw, the inspection period lol - I’d go to court ASAP if they hid behind that. We’re talking about intangible goods which don’t need any inspection whatsoever. The buyer knew exactly what he was getting before he paid and then provided additional details to authenticate his account.

 

[xynames]

They’re not going to get it back. Since they were the ones who prompted me to transfer, they need to do some homework and then release funds. Once it’s out of my account it’s time to get paid or there will be bigger issues.

And btw, the inspection period lol - I’d go to court ASAP if they hid behind that. We’re talking about intangible goods which don’t need any inspection whatsoever. The buyer knew exactly what he was getting before he paid and then provided additional details to authenticate his account.

If you want to read the TOS,
https://www.escrow.com/escrow-101/general-escrow-instructions
it is all there. Or you may keep repeating the same thing which just shows that you panicked, understandably, I am not blaming you, but without legal reason.

There is nothing that says Escrow.com assured the seller they will hold the funds until the merchandise is returned. I personally would have panicked too if that was Escrow.com’s exact wording without further details.

It's in the escrow TOS, and the email sent to seller should have had this verbiage somewhere in the email, or even if not quoted in the email, the TOS are the TOS and apply to all escrow.com transactions:

The buyer is responsible for 100% of the escrow fee in the event the transaction is cancelled or the merchandise is returned. During the Buyer Inspection Period, Buyer may reject for any reason by selecting the "Reject" button on the Escrow.com site and following all other instructions to properly reject the merchandise. Upon such rejection, Escrow.com will send Seller an email stating Buyer's decision to reject and return the goods; and Buyer agrees to promptly ship goods to Seller within ten (10) calendar days of formal rejection and insure, at Buyer's expense, the item(s) to the place designated by the Seller in the Seller's profile. Buyer will be responsible for shipping damage if insurance is not purchased. Buyer is aware that merchandise must be rejected in the manner described in order to obtain a refund of the purchase price.

Buyer is aware that regardless of the reason for rejection, Escrowed Property must be returned to the Seller in order for funds to be returned to the Buyer.

In Transactions where the Escrowed Property is a domain name, if a Buyer rejects a domain name (which is not being held by Escrow.com pursuant to a separate holding agreement) within the Inspection Period, return of the domain name from Buyer to Seller must be initiated within ten (10) days of Buyer's rejection. Failure of Buyer to reject or initiate return of the domain name within the specified time periods will cause the Escrow Holder to automatically pay the Seller the purchase price. Seller agrees to cooperate in the return process of the domain. In the event the domain transfer to the Buyer has caused a ICANN imposed registrar lock, the Buyer and Seller agree that the Seller will open an account at the receiving registrar to take possession of the domain or that the funds will be held in escrow until this period expires and the domain can be returned to the Seller’s registrar.


Basically, seller knew or should have known the above. Buyer knew or should have known the above. But whether they knew or not, this is what would have applied:

Upon cancellation request Buyer would have had to return the domain to Seller, or else funds would have eventually been released to Seller. And seller was required by escrow TOS to cooperate to get the domain back, which is why escrow asked him to ask buyer to return it. It was a legitimate request from escrow to ask Seller to try to get the domain back, not any sort of thief protection. That's it, all in black and white, accusations from Seller aside.

You gentlemen may just keep arguing all day long about what "shoulda been" or, just read the escrow.com TOS and know, for future reference, how it works.

 

[Rob Monster]

So far, what we have learned is that both Epik and escrow.com have TOS that allow the buyer or seller to cancel the transaction including after buyer has made payment. In the case of escrow.com including even after domain has been transferred to the buyer.

On this topic, the way Epik typically does escrow is as follows:

- Buyer funds their Epik account.

- Seller holds the domain they are selling in their Epik account.

- We then do a simultaneous close where Epik is buying the domain from the seller, and also selling the domain to the buyer. The identity of the buyer and seller are known only to Epik and the transaction is legally enforceable upon both buyer and seller as they are both direct clients of Epik in this transaction.

Until the transaction actually closes, everyone has sovereign control over their respective assets. And yes, there is no escrow fee so long as the domain is at Epik, and so long as the buyer is paying via bank transfer or crypto. With crypto, transactions can be closed in a few hours, 7 days a week.

I believe cases like this one are illustrative of why it is important to be the registrar in the transaction. There are several reasons:

- The ability to validate ownership.
- The ability to expedite change of control.
- The ability to waive the 60-day transfer lock.

Last but not least, once the transaction is done, the buyer of the domain is dealing with the entity that they paid, i.e. for customer service purposes, the buyer does not need to be introduced to a 4th party, a registrar.

 

[uzver]

The buyer is responsible for 100% of the escrow fee in the event the transaction is cancelled or the merchandise is returned. During the Buyer Inspection Period, Buyer may reject for any reason by selecting the "Reject" button on the Escrow.com site and following all other instructions to properly reject the merchandise. Upon such rejection, Escrow.com will send Seller an email stating Buyer's decision to reject and return the goods

I admit, I missed the “or the merchandise is returned” part. I was pretty sure once the domain has been delivered to the buyer there is no way back (escrow transaction cannot be reversed). I was wrong.

 

[Internet.Domains]

Until the transaction actually closes, everyone has sovereign control over their respective assets.

Epik 1 Escrow.com 0

 

[Keith]

If you want to read the TOS,
https://www.escrow.com/escrow-101/general-escrow-instructions
it is all there. Or you may keep repeating the same thing which just shows that you panicked, understandably, I am not blaming you, but without legal reason.



It's in the escrow TOS, and the email sent to seller should have had this verbiage somewhere in the email:

The buyer is responsible for 100% of the escrow fee in the event the transaction is cancelled or the merchandise is returned. During the Buyer Inspection Period, Buyer may reject for any reason by selecting the "Reject" button on the Escrow.com site and following all other instructions to properly reject the merchandise. Upon such rejection, Escrow.com will send Seller an email stating Buyer's decision to reject and return the goods; and Buyer agrees to promptly ship goods to Seller within ten (10) calendar days of formal rejection and insure, at Buyer's expense, the item(s) to the place designated by the Seller in the Seller's profile. Buyer will be responsible for shipping damage if insurance is not purchased. Buyer is aware that merchandise must be rejected in the manner described in order to obtain a refund of the purchase price.

Buyer is aware that regardless of the reason for rejection, Escrowed Property must be returned to the Seller in order for funds to be returned to the Buyer.

In Transactions where the Escrowed Property is a domain name, if a Buyer rejects a domain name (which is not being held by Escrow.com pursuant to a separate holding agreement) within the Inspection Period, return of the domain name from Buyer to Seller must be initiated within ten (10) days of Buyer's rejection. Failure of Buyer to reject or initiate return of the domain name within the specified time periods will cause the Escrow Holder to automatically pay the Seller the purchase price. Seller agrees to cooperate in the return process of the domain. In the event the domain transfer to the Buyer has caused a ICANN imposed registrar lock, the Buyer and Seller agree that the Seller will open an account at the receiving registrar to take possession of the domain or that the funds will be held in escrow until this period expires and the domain can be returned to the Seller’s registrar.


Basically, seller knew or should have known the above. Buyer knew or should have known the above. But whether they knew or not, this is what would have applied:

Upon cancellation request Buyer would have had to return the domain to Seller, or else funds would have eventually been released to Seller. And seller was required by escrow TOS to cooperate to get the domain back, which is why escrow asked him to ask buyer to return it. It was a legitimate request from escrow to ask Seller to try to get the domain back, not any sort of thief protection. That's it, all in black and white, accusations from Seller aside.

You guys may just keep arguing all day long about what "shoulda been" or, just read the escrow.com TOS and know, for future reference, how it works.

I don’t care about their TOS and I doubt it would hold up in court.

They collected payment, gathered all necessary info to validate the buyers account, and based on that, asked me to relinquish control of my asset.

There isn’t any going back at that point. Maybe you’d let them run over you but that shit won’t fly with me.

 

[xynames]

Well, if you take that attitude, then I understand why you come in here and call escrow a thief protector and buyer a thief, and won't back down. The TOS would have protected you by eventually releasing the funds to you if buyer didn't return the domain.

And it was within the escrow's rights, pursuant to the TOS, to ask you to get the domain back, because you have to cooperate to have it returned. Anyway they didn't ask you to get it back they asked you to ask buyer to return it.

If what you're saying is that nooooo I wouldn't accept the domain back I want my moneyyyyy that wouldn't hold up and you could just waste your time and money suing.


You know in Germany you see
Die Straße gehörte mir
on some tombstones.

It means, "The Road was Mine."

 

[Keith]

Well, if you take that attitude, then I understand why you come in here and call escrow a thief protector and buyer a thief, and won't back down. The TOS would have protected you by eventually releasing the funds to you if buyer didn't return the domain.

If what you're saying is that nooooo I wouldn't accept the domain back I want my moneyyyyy that wouldn't hold up and you could just waste you time and money suing.

When you ask the seller to try to get the domain back that you just asked them to transfer, you’re on the scammers side. All the buyer had to do is say they never got the domain and prob would’ve got refunded.

And keep in mind he was saying I hacked his account... bad look.

 

[Mister Funsky]

The identity of the buyer and seller are known only to Epik and the transaction is legally enforceable upon both buyer and seller as they are both direct clients of Epik in this transaction.

Bingo! This is why I love the Epik marketplace. Only one transaction do I know who the owner/buyer is/was as he/she was so excited to get the name he/she sought me out and told me how much he/she loved the name. It is awesome to open my email and see a notice saying "your domain was sold". Just for fun I shoot over to my Epik account to see the funds there. Then my addiction kicks in and I buy more and more and more domains...okay, time for a meeting.

btw, congratulations Keith on the sale!

 

[uzver]

When you ask the seller to try to get the domain back that you just asked them to transfer, you’re on the scammers side. All the buyer had to do is say they never got the domain and prob would’ve got refunded.

I learned from Escrow.com rep that they have connections with GoDaddy and they can verify whether or not an account change occurred.

Nevertheless, I always keep [email protected] in CC when I receive instructions from the buyer as to where they want to receive the domain (GoDaddy account #, etc).

 

[xynames]

Keith, I suggest you not use escrow.com again until you read their TOS.

Thanks for creating a thread where the rest of us learned what those TOS are.

 

[Keith]

I learned from Escrow.com rep that they have connections with GoDaddy and they can verify whether or not an account change occurred.

Nevertheless, I always keep [email protected] in CC when I receive instructions from the buyer as to where they want to receive the domain (GoDaddy account #, etc).

I immediately called godaddy premiere services and was told they would not provide any info to escrow. They wouldn’t give me any info of the buyer either.