REPRESENTATION: The attack on IDNs.

[MAINNET]

🗣 This thread is dedicated to our fellow investors and forum members who are bilingual and/or value the power of language both online and offline. We’re talking about those who respect culture, history, inclusiveness and diverse representation in the digital age.

In a perfect world, everyone would be an extension of the aforementioned; but we’re all aware the real-world is NOT perfect. Much of humanity’s not-so-flattering nature is conveyed through bias, discrimination and hatred. All of which are prevalent in domain investing too.

An obvious indicator that bias, discrimination and hatred exist in the domain space can be spotted in the overarching disdain many investors have for IDNs. (International Domain Names). Some go to EXTREME lengths to convince others IDNs have no place online.

In fact, they do. They exist right?!

IDNs are names that support the ability to connect with others in more languages than English. They type and resolve just like their standard counterparts; but have the unique ability to resolve in two ways instead of one. In essence, they’re equipped with dual-resolution.

It’s disheartening to see domain investors shame IDN purchases and use; while clearly being aware English isn’t the only language in existence. It’s something unethical about the company with a Spanish name being led to believe an English domain is their only option.

️ Granted, the origins of language eradication throughout history go a lot deeper than the domain space. However, this thread is meant to acknowledge the various languages that exist; while reiterating that representation, without shame, in domain investing is well overdue.

May the centralized domain space do better.

As usual, The Downvote Gang will likely come out swinging; and the mods might even move this thread to an obscure part of the platform for whatever reason. Nevertheless, the truth expressed here will be valid regardless. It should be considered a nod to the opportunity for us all to progress forward……TOGETHER.

QUAD Domains

 

[MAINNET]

.

 

[MAINNET]

That's quite the stretch.

Any domain investor "bias" is related to their lack of demand. It has nothing to do with language.

Brad

Think so?

 

[bmugford]

Of course your viewpoint is respected and appreciated. Emphasizing “conflict between groups of investors” is NEVER a goal. It’s merely a matter of nudging fellow investors to have the REAL discussion about where the industry stands. Even if just for the sake of new students/investors. The industry isn’t perfect by a long shot and could be more progressive. However, we can’t achieve this without pulling back the cover on some truths and doing the checks and balances. It might not be convenient or pretty; but it’s necessary.

You are having a real discussion here.

Look, people like different things.

Just because people are not cheerleading IDN doesn't mean there is some big conspiracy against them.

Some people made millions of dollars selling little pictures of apes. People go where the money is.
There is just very limited money in IDN.

Brad

 

[HotKey]

Tables have turned, mounting an attack on IDNs. Usually it's the other way around:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack

These kind of domains are generally cumbersome to use but implemented as they are meant they can be handy for those wanting their native tongue displayed.

This is mainly an investing platform, and founded on interests towards legacy ccTLDs and .com, .org and. net extensions so there will be natural bias pro those.

Real world usage combined with consistent sale throughput can change minds but as much as we say we are "looking out for newcomers" I have definitely seen a pattern of we are "looking out for our own interests" unfortunately.

There are a few fellow experienced investors here that are an exception, they do have an open mind regardless of whether or not it is a vested interest and look at nuances like merits and outliers and accept that these are ok for the domain in question and could be applied on a larger scale. You have to be realistic though, and I think that is what these respected investors try to impart.

Personally I've always kept an open mind, IDNs are no exception, but throughout the years the realization hits that, in an investing sense, potential and merit in special use domains does not equate a promise of return.

I've given up a TON of, in my eyes, spectacular, niche names across all spectrums only because reaching the one buyer is like looking for a needle in a haystack. And to those whom have acquired the names after me, all the best to you it is actually cool to see.

The domain industry is largely unregulated, things like quality control and pricing are arbitrary and sales may be done in complete secrecy, thus the need for us individual investors to keep what's seen as a "firm hand" on what we know works. Skepticism is to be expected in areas that have underperformed in the past, and new introductions that may or may not produce the results they promise.

 

[MAINNET]

I see that as more of a negative though.

Both doors require some extra level of effort.

Door one requires special characters, and often either multiple keyboards or extra steps to type in.

Door two is kind of irrelevant. Do you really think anyone is going to type "xn--systmes-5xa.com" into a browser?

Brad

Come on @bmugford! If one is primarily using a Chinese character mobile keyboard, they’d still have to take those “extra steps” to type in an English name. Unless what you’re implying is that English is the primary language keyboard for all. Are you?

 

[bmugford]

Come on @bmugford! If one is primarily using a Chinese character mobile keyboard, they’d still have to take those “extra steps” to type in an English name. Unless what you’re implying is that English is the primary language keyboard for all. Are you?

If you can type all the characters on one keyboard that is different than requiring multiple keyboards and/or other special characters not on any keyboards.

If your target audience is only people using a certain keyboard, go for it.

If it is anything outside that, it becomes a nuisance for people to visit your website if it can't be typed in easily.

That doesn't really mean much as far as investment goes. This is a forum mainly populated by domain investors.

You need to convince end users. They are the ones that matter.

Brad

 

[MAINNET]

You are having a real discussion here.

Look, people like different things.

Just because people are not cheerleading IDN doesn't mean there is some big conspiracy against them.

Some people made millions of dollars selling little pictures of apes. People go where the money is.
There is just very limited money in IDN.

Brad

Agreed. People do in fact like different things. Preference is one of the greatest perks of being an individual. Consider the thread to be an acknowledgment of how expressing preference can double as an attack depending on one’s approach. That’s all.

I wholeheartedly agree with investing where the revenue is. That’s simple business logic. Never once was it stated IDNs are where the money is. It’s not. However, IDNs are where the culture is. This has its own value. It may not appeal to everyone; but it does to some.

Mel
QUAD Domains

 

[Samer]

Come on @bmugford! If one is primarily using a Chinese character mobile keyboard, they’d still have to take those “extra steps” to type in an English name. Unless what you’re implying is that English is the primary language keyboard for all. Are you?

English is the language of the world.
I used to think it only pissed off the French

 

[bmugford]

Agreed. People do in fact like different things. Preference is one of the greatest perks of being an individual. Consider the thread to be an acknowledgment of how expressing preference can double as an attack depending on one’s approach. That’s all.

I wholeheartedly agree with investing where the revenue is. That’s simple business logic. Never once was it stated IDNs are where the money is. It’s not. However, IDNs are where the culture is. This has its own value. It may not appeal to everyone; but it does to some.

Mel
QUAD Domains

There are plenty of things I have no interest or faith in, as investments.

If you make an IDN sale, I will be the first one to congratulate you.

Brad

 

[MAINNET]

English is the language of the world.
I used to think it only pissed off the French

Shucks.

 

[Lox]

IDN world report 2023

• 84% ccTLDs support IDN registration with a further 1 registry in preparation to launch.
• There are an estimated 2.9 million IDN registrations under ccTLDs.
• Over the 12 months to January 2023, the median growth of IDN registrations under national ccTLDs was recorded at -0.1% (sample: 40 ccTLDs) which is a decline from the previous year’s growth of 2.5%.
• With an estimated 1.4 million IDN registrations under gTLDs, over the 12 months to January 2023, the median growth was recorded at 1.91%. (sample: 282 gTLDs)
• Latin is the most common script offered by ccTLDs in the sample set.
• 74 registries support IDN registration at the second level with a further 5 registries in preparation to support.
• 17 registries offer both IDN and xn-- form in Port 43 WHOIS, 14 registries offer both forms in RDAP and 29 registries offer both forms in web-based WHOIS.
• 65 registries do not support the Homoglyph building.
• ccTLD registries rate registrar support 4 out of 5. This is an increase from the previous year’s score of 3.1.
• Registries rate end-user awareness of IDNs at 2.5 out of 5. This is an increase from the previous year’s score of 2.2.

 

[MAINNET]

IDN world report 2023

• 84% ccTLDs support IDN registration with a further 1 registry in preparation to launch.
• There are an estimated 2.9 million IDN registrations under ccTLDs.
• Over the 12 months to January 2023, the median growth of IDN registrations under national ccTLDs was recorded at -0.1% (sample: 40 ccTLDs) which is a decline from the previous year’s growth of 2.5%.
• With an estimated 1.4 million IDN registrations under gTLDs, over the 12 months to January 2023, the median growth was recorded at 1.91%. (sample: 282 gTLDs)
• Latin is the most common script offered by ccTLDs in the sample set.
• 74 registries support IDN registration at the second level with a further 5 registries in preparation to support.
• 17 registries offer both IDN and xn-- form in Port 43 WHOIS, 14 registries offer both forms in RDAP and 29 registries offer both forms in web-based WHOIS.
• 65 registries do not support the Homoglyph building.
• ccTLD registries rate registrar support 4 out of 5. This is an increase from the previous year’s score of 3.1.
• Registries rate end-user awareness of IDNs at 2.5 out of 5. This is an increase from the previous year’s score of 2.2.

@Lox

Thank you for the stats. This stands out:

“[*]74 registries support IDN registration at the second level with a further 5 registries in preparation to support.”

A choice to support IDNs suggests someone, somewhere, sees value in them.

Mel
QUAD Domains

 

[Future Sensors]

A choice to support IDNs suggests someone, somewhere, sees value in them.

It is a headache for companies, which are obliged to cover all IDN variants.

 

[JB Lions]

@Lox


A choice to support IDNs suggests someone, somewhere, sees value in them.

It means registrars/registries like to make money. They make lots of money off newbies. Same with a lot new gtlds. I remember when .sexy came out, Frank hardly posted on blogs that weren't his but he was out there pumping .sexy, posting up lists of some truly horrible .sexy names and some newbies felt he was being nice to them. No, he's just trying to make money, they were easy targets.

 

[MAINNET]

There are plenty of things I have no interest or faith in, as investments.

If you make an IDN sale, I will be the first one to congratulate you.

Brad

Here’s a bit of a “seller’s secret”:

There are some companies whose native operating names are in languages other than English. It’s these entities who are taken aback by the fact they don’t hold the IDN version of their name. A little education goes a long way.

I’ll leave this here. (Wink)

Mel
QUAD Domains

 

[MAINNET]

It is a headache for companies, which are obliged to cover all IDN variants.

Sometimes a little headache opens the door to profitability.

Mel
QUAD Domains

 

[Future Sensors]

Sometimes a little headache opens the door to profitability.

Mel
QUAD Domains

Here's a short summary of this thread.

xn--nestl-fsa.com. 3528 IN A 192.230.66.102
xn--nestl-fsa.com. 3528 IN A 199.83.128.102

Domain Name: XN--NESTL-FSA.COM
Registry Domain ID: 100106849_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.comlaude.com
Registrar URL: http://www.comlaude.com
Updated Date: 2023-06-05T23:20:37Z
Creation Date: 2003-07-05T11:23:26Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2024-07-05T11:23:26Z
Registrar: Nom-iq Ltd. dba COM LAUDE
Registrar IANA ID: 470
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +442074218250
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Name Server: AMSDNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: AOADNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: CTRDNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: EURDNS1.NESTLE.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: https://www.icann.org/wicf/
>>> Last update of whois database: 2023-08-19T20:06:24Z <<<

 

[MAINNET]

Here's a short summary of this thread.

xn--nestl-fsa.com. 3528 IN A 192.230.66.102
xn--nestl-fsa.com. 3528 IN A 199.83.128.102

Domain Name: XN--NESTL-FSA.COM
Registry Domain ID: 100106849_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.comlaude.com
Registrar URL: http://www.comlaude.com
Updated Date: 2023-06-05T23:20:37Z
Creation Date: 2003-07-05T11:23:26Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2024-07-05T11:23:26Z
Registrar: Nom-iq Ltd. dba COM LAUDE
Registrar IANA ID: 470
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +442074218250
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Name Server: AMSDNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: AOADNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: CTRDNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: EURDNS1.NESTLE.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: https://www.icann.org/wicf/
>>> Last update of whois database: 2023-08-19T20:06:24Z <<<


Show attachment 244910

Hmm.

 

[Lox]

A choice to support IDNs suggests someone, somewhere, sees value in them.

Yes, currently, ICANN doing some promo for several “gov initiatives“ in India… and what I can tell about is that the only one whose interest $ is to push is the registries. Registries are not going to do anything about the promo. Just tech part and that’s all.

Now, if registrars do not know how to promote idn and the profit is not worth the “ad space” (promo slots @ registrars home page) … no money no idn identity push.

Jet Another ICANNs fiasco is that they do not have the commerce brains / business minds… so the main problem is that laptop keyboards (read manufactures) in Tamil language are not profitable … mass production. ICANN can give a hope -promise to the f.e. ASUS, ACER etc …there’s a future …. But can’t give anything else…

Sold 16 idns … last one in 2019 for $1550 - car manufacturer … hard cheese… from investors perspective not worth time imo . And if I tell you …for the next decade … It’s not worth… (Data is my friend, not ICANN or Gov promo or Registry or Registrar reg. bait)

Regards

 

[Jannes]

Some trivia:
Häagen-Dazs, the American ice cream brand, sold worldwide, uses the domains haagen-dazs.se /.fi in Sweden and Finland respectively, even though ’ä’ is on our keyboards (usually a dedicated key). Not only that, häagen-dazs.se/.fi aren’t even registered for name forwarding or brand protection purposes.